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Hiding from Ideas [TRIGGER WARNING]

7,572 Views | 98 Replies

Link: http://www.nytimes.com/2015/03/22/opinion/sunday/judith-shulevitz-hiding-from-scary-ideas.html

Today's college students have it rough. Non-stop studying, tests, homework, reports, and even hiding in a room when someone says something you disagree with. Wait. What?

So when she heard last fall that a student group had organized a debate about campus sexual assault between Jessica Valenti, the founder of feministing.com, and Wendy McElroy, a libertarian, and that Ms. McElroy was likely to criticize the term “rape culture,” Ms. Byron was alarmed.

Criticism? Say it isn't so! But how can we shield ourselves from these new ideas?

Meanwhile, student volunteers put up posters advertising that a “safe space” would be available for anyone who found the debate too upsetting. The safe space, Ms. Byron explained, was intended to give people who might find comments “troubling” or “triggering,” a place to recuperate. The room was equipped with cookies, coloring books, bubbles, Play-Doh, calming music, pillows, blankets and a video of frolicking puppies, as well as students and staff members trained to deal with trauma.

Oh. What a relief. I'm glad that today's young adults are fragile enough that they may need to leave a debate when someone starts disagreeing with them. But why have these debates at all? Won't somebody think of the children?

At Oxford University’s Christ Church college in November, the college censors (a “censor” being more or less the Oxford equivalent of an undergraduate dean) canceled a debate on abortion after campus feminists threatened to disrupt it because both would-be debaters were men. “I’m relieved the censors have made this decision,” said the treasurer of Christ Church’s student union

Phew. That's good. We can't let these men talk about things. They might rape someone. But what about whites? Whites are always up to no good!

A year and a half ago, a Hampshire College student group disinvited an Afrofunk band that had been attacked on social media for having too many white musicians; the vitriolic discussion had made students feel “unsafe.”

That's good. They might have started to enslave people. White people scare me, and we didn't even have a room full of puppies and cookies at the time!

So, Newgrounds. What do you think? Do you think that this ultra snowflake-coddling hand-holding nonsense is actually helping to prepare young adults for the future, or do you have an IQ in the triple digits?

Discuss.

[/TRIGGER WARNING]

We also have a safe room available should this discussion prove too much for your fragile mind to handle. You'll find cookies, puppies, and pictures of white men being beaten. Have a fun, safe, and terribly uninspired time!

Response to Hiding from Ideas [TRIGGER WARNING] 2015-03-21 23:44:53


At 3/21/15 11:39 PM, Cordyceps wrote: If you're spending money on a useless degree the university might as well put some of that money somewhere

If feminism or rape or whatever came up in my physics class then there's something to worry about

M-my gender studies degree is not useless! I'll have you know that gender studies is a very in-demand major!

At 3/21/15 11:39 PM, SansNumbers wrote: See, I understand where they're coming from, because men arguing about abortions has the same value and importance as women talking about vasectomies or prostate exams: basically none at all, unless they're doctors or something.

By that logic, we should end political debates, too. Nothing that is debated will ever personally have any effect on the people in power, and they certainly aren't ever speaking about anything they know of first-hand.


At 3/21/15 11:35 PM, Bit wrote: Link: http://www.nytimes.com/2015/03/22/opinion/sunday/judith-shulevitz-hiding-from-scary-ideas.html

Today's college students have it rough. Non-stop studying, tests, homework, reports, and even hiding in a room when someone says something you disagree with. Wait. What?

What the...

So when she heard last fall that a student group had organized a debate about campus sexual assault between Jessica Valenti, the founder of feministing.com, and Wendy McElroy, a libertarian, and that Ms. McElroy was likely to criticize the term “rape culture,” Ms. Byron was alarmed.
Criticism? Say it isn't so! But how can we shield ourselves from these new ideas?

Maybe I'm just a dumb male, but all the local culture I've observed doesn't seem to cast rape in a positive light. Granted, I haven't experienced everything in the world, and that sexual assault is a serious problem.

Meanwhile, student volunteers put up posters advertising that a “safe space” would be available for anyone who found the debate too upsetting. The safe space, Ms. Byron explained, was intended to give people who might find comments “troubling” or “triggering,” a place to recuperate. The room was equipped with cookies, coloring books, bubbles, Play-Doh, calming music, pillows, blankets and a video of frolicking puppies, as well as students and staff members trained to deal with trauma.
Oh. What a relief. I'm glad that today's young adults are fragile enough that they may need to leave a debate when someone starts disagreeing with them. But why have these debates at all? Won't somebody think of the children?

Perhaps some people just can't or aren't ready to deal. Actual rape survivors not wanting to be around I can understand, but regular folks that just want it to go away? The room has a noble intention, but I'm not sure that trying to shield people will help them in the long run. Knowledge doesn't promise happiness, but ignorance isn't bliss.

At Oxford University’s Christ Church college in November, the college censors (a “censor” being more or less the Oxford equivalent of an undergraduate dean) canceled a debate on abortion after campus feminists threatened to disrupt it because both would-be debaters were men. “I’m relieved the censors have made this decision,” said the treasurer of Christ Church’s student union
Phew. That's good. We can't let these men talk about things. They might rape someone. But what about whites? Whites are always up to no good!

Why not add some female debaters instead of canceling it? Admitted the issue of abortion has a larger impact on the woman carrying the fetus (or whatever the hell the want to call the baby now), but the father (sperm donor) can still be affected.

A year and a half ago, a Hampshire College student group disinvited an Afrofunk band that had been attacked on social media for having too many white musicians; the vitriolic discussion had made students feel “unsafe.”
That's good. They might have started to enslave people. White people scare me, and we didn't even have a room full of puppies and cookies at the time!

Of course, those mean old white people can't appreciate or play Afrofunk!

So, Newgrounds. What do you think? Do you think that this ultra snowflake-coddling hand-holding nonsense is actually helping to prepare young adults for the future, or do you have an IQ in the triple digits?

Discuss.

It's a natural inclination to want be secure and never wrong or confronted with things we don't agree with. It's easy to think that different opinions=wrong. I sure don't have all the right answers, but the of approach silencing opposition or ignoring it won't make the problems go away.

Response to Hiding from Ideas [TRIGGER WARNING] 2015-03-22 00:07:41


At 3/21/15 11:55 PM, someaveragechap wrote: Maybe I'm just a dumb male, but all the local culture I've observed doesn't seem to cast rape in a positive light. Granted, I haven't experienced everything in the world, and that sexual assault is a serious problem.

I know. If anyone in my community was known to be a rapist, they would basically be shunned by everyone.

Perhaps some people just can't or aren't ready to deal. Actual rape survivors not wanting to be around I can understand, but regular folks that just want it to go away? The room has a noble intention, but I'm not sure that trying to shield people will help them in the long run. Knowledge doesn't promise happiness, but ignorance isn't bliss.

But then why go to a debate that you're not ready to face? What happens is that people go to the debate and then only listen to the part that they agree with. The arguments from the other side which don't agree with your world view are melted away by puppies, cookies, and Play-Doh.

Why not add some female debaters instead of canceling it? Admitted the issue of abortion has a larger impact on the woman carrying the fetus (or whatever the hell the want to call the baby now), but the father (sperm donor) can still be affected.

Honestly, I think that the cancellation had more to do with the fact that it's called "Christ Church" than anything.

And the point of the debaters isn't to necessarily be affected by what they're debating about, but rather to put all of the facts onto the table and discuss the merits of each position.

Hell, many of the points either side is likely to make are likely to have originally been written by women.

Of course, those mean old white people can't appreciate or play Afrofunk!

I know!

It's a natural inclination to want be secure and never wrong or confronted with things we don't agree with. It's easy to think that different opinions=wrong. I sure don't have all the right answers, but the of approach silencing opposition or ignoring it won't make the problems go away.

There are people who legitimately think that they are the ultimate authority on what is right and wrong in the world. They're the sort of people who censor opposing ideas and encourage others to leave when someone who disagrees with them is speaking.

And the whole thing reeks of child worship (See the George Carlin skit) and censorship.

Response to Hiding from Ideas [TRIGGER WARNING] 2015-03-22 00:14:22


At 3/22/15 12:07 AM, Bit wrote:
There are people who legitimately think that they are the ultimate authority on what is right and wrong in the world. They're the sort of people who censor opposing ideas and encourage others to leave when someone who disagrees with them is speaking.

And the whole thing reeks of child worship (See the George Carlin skit) and censorship.

Well, unless they have the flaming sword of the cosmos or Ctluhlu backing them up, they're entitled to think whatever they want but it doesn't make it so.

RIP George Carlin.

Response to Hiding from Ideas [TRIGGER WARNING] 2015-03-22 00:22:48


What the fuck kind of people are those?

Response to Hiding from Ideas [TRIGGER WARNING] 2015-03-22 00:31:05


Colleges censor students because we live in a world filled with fuckers who think they have the right to tell us what to say and believe, but then they turn around in shock when some of these people fight back and snap.

They pay to go, let them say whatever the fuck they want.


Ecchi first, ask questions never.

BBS Signature

Response to Hiding from Ideas [TRIGGER WARNING] 2015-03-22 01:13:14


At 3/22/15 01:00 AM, mysticvortex13 wrote:
At 3/21/15 11:35 PM, Bit wrote:
So when she heard last fall that a student group had organized a debate about campus sexual assault between Jessica Valenti, the founder of feministing.com, and Wendy McElroy, a libertarian, and that Ms. McElroy was likely to criticize the term “rape culture,” Ms. Byron was alarmed.
what exactly are these other people saying that the survivors disagree with? i cant find anything in the article..

The survivors apparently believe that there is a "rape culture" that teaches us men to rape women indiscriminately.

The fact that someone is about to criticize that idea is unsettling to them because it would mean that they're wrong.


At 3/21/15 11:39 PM, Cordyceps wrote: If you're spending money on a useless degree the university might as well put some of that money somewhere

If feminism or rape or whatever came up in my physics class then there's something to worry about

a) If the velocity of the male is 2cm/s, then calculate the total amount of work done by a 10N pelvis over the scale of 5 minutes.

b) Use answer a) to calculate how much sojiny was generated by the work done in 5 minutes. Show your working.

[10 marks]


PU PI PI PU PI PIII

PU PI PI PU PI PIII

BBS Signature

At 3/22/15 01:21 AM, Sensationalism wrote: "a safe place for rape victims, free from anything that might prompt memories of trauma."

So Bit, is this the part where you tell us things like PTSD from sexual assault don't exist and these people are dumb little pussies who can't face the real world?

It's the part where I tell you that maybe you shouldn't go to such a debate if the mere idea that someone could criticize the term "rape culture" offends you to the point where you suddenly need cookies and puppies.

I don't see any veterans running to the puppy room when two people debate whether the United States' interference in the Middle East is justified. I never hear anyone say "TRIGGER WARNING. We're going to talk about war. There are cookies in the next room to placate you if someone implies that 'war culture' does not exist."

Yeah I'm sure.
"But he's such a nice guy, he couldn't have done it." etc
"Why was she there in the first place?" "Why was she wearing that?" etc

Its the focus of wrongdoing being placed onto the victim. That's your rape culture. The mindset regarding it is need of change. You really have a problem with that?

I have literally never heard anyone bring these things up in real life; only if they're making an argument against "rape culture".

We, as a culture, know that rape is bad. We know that rapists have done a very bad thing. You've just deluded yourself into thinking that men glorify rape and punish women who step forward, but that couldn't be further from the truth.

I went to school with a guy who sexually assaulted a girl not long after graduating. Nobody spoke about the way the girl dressed or where she was. It was all "Holy shit. Did you hear what [NAME] was accused of?" and "Wow. What a piece of shit. I'm glad he's behind bars now.".

And he was a fairly well-known guy, but he found himself without any allies after his arrest.

Response to Hiding from Ideas [TRIGGER WARNING] 2015-03-22 01:42:24


At 3/22/15 01:21 AM, Sensationalism wrote: Yeah I'm sure.
"But he's such a nice guy, he couldn't have done it." etc
"Why was she there in the first place?" "Why was she wearing that?" etc

Its the focus of wrongdoing being placed onto the victim. That's your rape culture. The mindset regarding it is need of change. You really have a problem with that?

I've met plenty of nice guys who beat the shit out the kids and spouse. Being nice doesn't mean good. The natural inclination is to blame the person that had a crime committed against them about what they did wrong. Humans have a natural desire to see patterns and meaning in things. We believe that people deserve the suffering they endure. You see it all over the place. "Why didn't he lock his doors?" when someone was burgled because his back door was open. "Why did she cross in the middle of the road?" when a young girl I personally knew was hit by a reckless driver. But when you phrase it to empathize with the person, it casts a new light on the situation. That said I can't sympathize with every possible person and understand their suffering. Nobody can. The best I can personally do is be as loving and understanding to my friends and family and not be a shit to the general population at large.

Yeah, I'd like to see change. But going about it the wrong way for the right reasons is still all the way wrong.

And you know, it's not MY rape culture.

Response to Hiding from Ideas [TRIGGER WARNING] 2015-03-22 03:41:30


At 3/22/15 02:36 AM, Sensationalism wrote: Clearly you don't even know what PTSD is, buddy. Consider yourself lucky to have never experienced it.

I understand that those who actually have PTSD don't go out of their way to shut down people who are anti or pro-war, nor does their PTSD trigger when they hear someone say that 'war culture' is bad.

Your comment just exhibits a lack of understanding regarding the whole idea.

No. I understand it. I understand that universities are being turned into massive hug-boxes by adding 'safe rooms' and keeping those who disagree with your world view from speaking at all.

I'm basing my opinion from the factual part of the article you linked and yours is based off the following opinion the author expressed after sharing the facts.

I'm basing my opinion on the facts, as well. You're just upset that my opinion closely follows the author's.

Well I've seen vets scream and run away as a result of a balloon being popped so tell me more about how you don't understand at all what PTSD is.

But you've never seen one run away during a debate on the merits of war.

And I have never heard seen someone come into our country illegally irl so surely it doesn't happen.

This 'rape culture' must not be very extensive if you're the only one who has witnessed it.

First of all, men and women are both raped. Both can be rapists. Same sex rapes happen. I just couldn't possibly have deluded myself in that way considering that's not what I believe. But again, nice try.

Then where are the safe rooms for the guys? I want to watch TV and eat pizza during the debates.

Do you think the lack of convictions is the only reason that so many rapes don't even get reported?

The guilt and shame from being violated is partly because the victim mirrors that societal mindset and asks themselves the same questions "why didn't i this or that?" "maybe if i would have just....." When the reality is the only blame, shame, etc should be placed on the rapist because the victim shouldn't have been put into the situation in the first place.

Blaming oneself is actually pretty normal when dealing with trauma of all kinds. There's nothing to suggest that society mirrors the mindset upon them when the same self-blaming is present in all other traumatic scenarios.

Oh so clearly not everybody makes stupid comments or has a backwards mindset or thinks like that. THANKS FOR THE NEW IDEAS. </sarcasm>

If you'd look around you, you'd see that these backwards mindsets are a lot less common than you'd think. My one example to the contrary is more substantial than any evidence you've posted which suggests that these backwards mindsets really are universal.

So what is your goal here? It's not to empower rape victims or create dialog that with promote positive change.

To expose hugbox bullshit wherever it may be. And that bullshit just happens to be on university campuses everywhere.

Just sounds like you had no clue what PTSD was and started bashing women

My post did not single out a specific gender. The bullshit runs deep everywhere.

because you think only they get raped

OK. You've begun to pull things out of your arse.

and thought the act of providing a safe spot for people with PTSD to go if a word or idea sparked a traumatic memory which would lead to PTSD symptoms. Only the author of your article said anything about it being for any person at any college who didn't like to hear ideas different from their own.

Except that it's right there in the text:

So when she heard last fall that a student group had organized a debate about campus sexual assault between Jessica Valenti, the founder of feministing.com, and Wendy McElroy, a libertarian, and that Ms. McElroy was likely to criticize the term “rape culture,” Ms. Byron was alarmed. “Bringing in a speaker like that could serve to invalidate people’s experiences,” she told me. It could be “damaging.”

Criticizing the term "rape culture" is damaging, apparently.

Ms. Byron and some fellow task force members secured a meeting with administrators. Not long after, Brown’s president, Christina H. Paxson, announced that the university would hold a simultaneous, competing talk to provide “research and facts” about “the role of culture in sexual assault.” Meanwhile, student volunteers put up posters advertising that a “safe space” would be available for anyone who found the debate too upsetting.

They didn't even want to hear what she had to say. They were quick to arrange a competing talk and a 'safe room' to protect anyone from being damaged by her criticism of a term.

Response to Hiding from Ideas [TRIGGER WARNING] 2015-03-22 05:02:52


At 3/21/15 11:39 PM, SansNumbers wrote: See, I understand where they're coming from, because men arguing about abortions has the same value and importance as women talking about vasectomies or prostate exams: basically none at all, unless they're doctors or something.

I don't know for sure if you're being sarcastic or not, but I'm pretty sure you aren't being.
Men discussing abortion is only like women talking about vasectomies in the sense that they're both something that don't involve each others set of genitals.
Vasectomies and prostate exams are both fairly direct and uncontroversial things that happen medically. Choosing to have a vasectomy is a choice that a guy may make if he's serious about not having any/anymore kids, nothing controversial there; a prostate exam is just a medical examination for health purposes, nothing controversial there. Abortion however, calls into question huge moral quandaries in that it deals with the creation of a new person after conception, whether you're pro-choice or not (I am pro-choice, full disclosure) that is a huge factor and calls into question "when does life begin?" "who are we to decide to not make this baby happen?" it also calls into question a woman's ownership of her own body and whether or not a proto-person has the same rights as anyother man, woman or child.
To say that discussing vasectomies or prostate exams is like discussing abortion is absurd; a more fitting analogy would be prostate exams and going to the gynecologist or something like that. The gynecologist shouldn't be of any concern to a man in the way prostate exams should be of no concern to a woman.

There's a lot of other stuff going on in this thread, but that really stuck out and bothered me that nobody addressed it so yeah, carry on.

Response to Hiding from Ideas [TRIGGER WARNING] 2015-03-22 08:13:20


At 3/22/15 07:56 AM, vixuzar wrote: what kind of fucked up world is this ?!

A world with nuclear weapons, deadly chemical agents, nasty biological pathogens, outmoded instincts that served to get us here in the present but are undermining us because we can't conceive that the stranger over the hill may be just like us and 7 billion screaming souls all with trillions of different opinions.

People do horrible things to other people. We try and find reasons for that. Society, family, individual, nature or nurture. And we want to assign blame easily so we can move on to the next issue or fad.

We have trouble recognizing that other people are in fact, humans, and not roles that we give them. Survivor, victim, hero or villain. We want simple answers to complicated issues, and seek out the path of least resistance. Some try to go against the flow, most times the forces of entropy just batter them into dust. Occasionally, progress is made. Or sometimes we slip. Every now and then, an idea comes along and is so powerful that forces change.

It's beautiful and terrible, happy and sad, conflicted and crazy. It's the only world we got until cheap space travel and outer space colonies are a thing. Hang tight on the edges and don't look down. Everyone falls eventually, no need to dwell on it more then necessary. I suppose that's the kind of fucked up world we live in.

Response to Hiding from Ideas [TRIGGER WARNING] 2015-03-22 08:19:00


I don't have a problem with trigger warnings. It's an irrelevance to anybody who's not worried about being 'triggered' so I don't see the issue. The freedom to forego debate isn't an assault on democracy (to me that sounds like Marxism, you big Red).

At 3/21/15 11:39 PM, Cordyceps wrote: If you're spending money on a useless degree the university might as well put some of that money somewhere

Lol he didn't go to university

Response to Hiding from Ideas [TRIGGER WARNING] 2015-03-22 08:40:06


It says your name right there pal

Response to Hiding from Ideas [TRIGGER WARNING] 2015-03-22 08:47:48


That's right, because you are stupid

Response to Hiding from Ideas [TRIGGER WARNING] 2015-03-22 08:53:04


I'm smart. Did you not see my post up there

Response to Hiding from Ideas [TRIGGER WARNING] 2015-03-22 08:55:49


Because you are stupid

Response to Hiding from Ideas [TRIGGER WARNING] 2015-03-22 08:56:24


I'm smart

Response to Hiding from Ideas [TRIGGER WARNING] 2015-03-22 08:57:51


Good comeback, stupid

Response to Hiding from Ideas [TRIGGER WARNING] 2015-03-22 08:58:49


I'm smart. You're the one that is stupid

Response to Hiding from Ideas [TRIGGER WARNING] 2015-03-22 09:01:37


No you're stupid and I'm smart, stupid

Response to Hiding from Ideas [TRIGGER WARNING] 2015-03-22 09:05:41


You've just proved how stupid you are, I'm not signing my posts and you are. That makes you stupid

Response to Hiding from Ideas [TRIGGER WARNING] 2015-03-22 09:08:30


You're a stupid boy and I'm a smart boy

Response to Hiding from Ideas [TRIGGER WARNING] 2015-03-22 09:14:32


Wrong you are stupid

Response to Hiding from Ideas [TRIGGER WARNING] 2015-03-22 09:15:54


K-K-K-K-K-K-KOMBO BREAKER!

Response to Hiding from Ideas [TRIGGER WARNING] 2015-03-22 09:19:44


I'm smart because I am right

Response to Hiding from Ideas [TRIGGER WARNING] 2015-03-22 09:23:39


You are stupid and your dad is probably stupid also

Response to Hiding from Ideas [TRIGGER WARNING] 2015-03-22 09:23:44


My dad is smart and strong and I am smart and I will be strong