American & North Korean propaganda

[Xiicubed]

American media says North Korea's propaganda is bad and it brainwashes North Koreans to believe their country is the best country. But the same exact thing happens in America

Cult of Personality:

North Korea portrayed Kim Il-sung as a perfect flawless heroic figure who fought for the force of good. America does the same thing with George Washington and Abraham Lincoln.

Foreign relations:

North Korean propaganda portrays America, South Korea, and Japan as being evil. America portrays Cuba, Palestine, Soviet Union, Iraq, Afghanistan (before the wars in those 2 countries), Syria, the same way.

Racial pride:

North Korean propaganda portrays Koreans as being the purest and best of all races. America does the same thing with propaganda beliefs that they are the greatest country on Earth, they carry the duty of God and the divine force of the world (Presidents have actually said that), and everything America does in foreign countries is right.

Americans are brainwashed and believe all the propaganda I stated above. Thus America is no different than North Korea.

[DamnedByFate]

At 1/1/14 08:51 AM, Xiicubed wrote: America is no different than North Korea.

Well, America at least pretends to be a democracy.

[Fim]

One of the weirdest things I ever learned was that apparently in the US every kid in school has to pledge allegiance to the flag and country every morning. To someone who's not from the states that is really scary.

[orangebomb]

At 1/1/14 08:51 AM, Xiicubed wrote: American media says North Korea's propaganda is bad and it brainwashes North Koreans to believe their country is the best country. But the same exact thing happens in America

There is a huge difference between so-called propaganda of America and actual propaganda from North Korea, North Korea promotes a false delusion of grandeur in their culture and is actively trying to troll for attention, and succeeded at doing just that.

Cult of Personality:

North Korea portrayed Kim Il-sung as a perfect flawless heroic figure who fought for the force of good. America does the same thing with George Washington and Abraham Lincoln.

On the surface, it looks similar in terms of achievements, but here's the key differences, the Kim family were massive egomaniacs that ruled with iron fists and deliberately ran their country to the ground. Washington and Lincoln were a lot more humble by comparison, and were simply men of their time when it came to race relations and slavery, plus most Americans don't treat them as actual gods the way North Korea does with Kim Il-sung.

Foreign relations:

North Korean propaganda portrays America, South Korea, and Japan as being evil. America portrays Cuba, Palestine, Soviet Union, Iraq, Afghanistan (before the wars in those 2 countries), Syria, the same way.

So what? This has been done by every country forever. Plus countries like Cuba, Russia and Iraq have terrible human rights records in their history, in which by comparison America's "war crimes" (if you can call them that) were virtually nothing at all in the grand scheme of things.

Racial pride:

North Korean propaganda portrays Koreans as being the purest and best of all races. America does the same thing with propaganda beliefs that they are the greatest country on Earth, they carry the duty of God and the divine force of the world (Presidents have actually said that), and everything America does in foreign countries is right.

Now you're literately taking it the wrong way. North Korea is virtually unrepentant when it comes to blatant racism and aggressive behavior, whereas that American belief you mentioned was commonplace about 100 years ago and is only prevalent with the hardcore religious assholes now who are largely irrelevant now. What we have done in Afghanistan and Iraq is not imperialism, but something that most of the world wanted us to do, only to become two-faced and bash us for doing something that they wanted us to do.

Americans are brainwashed and believe all the propaganda I stated above. Thus America is no different than North Korea.

You and NewgroundsMike are so fucking retarded enough to believe all this, I would swear that you are really trolls.

[Warforger]

At 1/1/14 10:33 AM, Fim wrote: One of the weirdest things I ever learned was that apparently in the US every kid in school has to pledge allegiance to the flag and country every morning. To someone who's not from the states that is really scary.

Yah it's true but it's not really taken that seriously. In lower grades kids take it more seriously, I remember when I tried to half ass it some kids calling me out but it's not what it seems. It's not part of some vast brainwashing program, by high school no one cares and a lot of people just stay sitting down, the teachers don't do anything to force them. It doesn't really instill patriotism as much as it is some tedious task you do for roughly 15 seconds. It's a remnant of Cold War politics, there's a reason it's a non issue. It's the same way Sweden and Denmark still have State churches supported by taxes, to the outside world it may seem like they're still trying to impose their religion through preference to the State religion but domestically it's a non issue which lost all meaning and relevance decades ago.

[leanlifter1]

At 1/1/14 02:37 PM, Korriken wrote:

At 1/1/14 08:51 AM, Xiicubed wrote:

Americans are brainwashed and believe all the propaganda I stated above. Thus America is no different than North Korea.

You're no different than a weasel because you both have red blood.

We are not debating Weasels or "Red blood" we are debating Propaganda . Back On TOPIC ....

[orangebomb]

At 1/1/14 02:47 PM, leanlifter1 wrote: We are not debating Weasels or "Red blood" we are debating Propaganda . Back On TOPIC ....

Oh gee willikers, I thought that this topic was about weasels.

In all seriousness though, that's not the point Korriken was making. The fact that most people here can't seem to understand that North Korean propaganda is taken literately (i.e. worship of the Kim family, shameless bravado in spite of their situation, etc.) compared to American propaganda, which is not treated with any sincerity considering that much of it was made during the Cold War and before, when that behavior was not only acceptable, but encouraged, is virtually insane.

This is not drinking the "American government kool-aid" garbage, this is common knowledge.

[AJ]

I for one condemn US propaganda for its attempts at inspiring blind nationalism and fascism.

[AJ]

Take at look at this. Straight out of Jong Un's playbook.

[randomperson23]

Its not the same exact propaganda, but both countries promote nationalism in the same ways.

[AJ]

At 1/1/14 04:24 PM, randomperson23 wrote: Its not the same exact propaganda, but both countries promote nationalism in the same ways.

By throwing dissenting citizens into labor camps for life, and murdering their families?

[randomperson23]

At 1/1/14 04:42 PM, AJ wrote:

At 1/1/14 04:24 PM, randomperson23 wrote: Its not the same exact propaganda, but both countries promote nationalism in the same ways.

By throwing dissenting citizens into labor camps for life, and murdering their families?

That's not propaganda. This forum here is about propaganda(and not about how governments in US and NK treat dissenters).

[Camarohusky]

If break down the elements enough, hell, even capitalism and communism will look the same.

[Warforger]

That's not propaganda. This forum here is about propaganda(and not about how governments in US and NK treat dissenters).

You mean like how in the US dissenters are ignored by the gov while they get a lot of attention by millions of people on the internet(like this forum) radio and tv? And how NK kills people who make jokes which slightly criticize the regime?

[AJ]

At 1/1/14 07:37 PM, randomperson23 wrote: That's not propaganda. This forum here is about propaganda(and not about how governments in US and NK treat dissenters).

Can it be about how the US and Germany executed white people too?

[CommanderFalcon]

At 1/1/14 10:33 AM, Fim wrote: One of the weirdest things I ever learned was that apparently in the US every kid in school has to pledge allegiance to the flag and country every morning. To someone who's not from the states that is really scary.

It's a lot less scary if the person telling you that ALSO points out that no one is REQUIRED to do that. It's voluntary. That said, there are teachers who GREATLY disapprove of not doing it, and one teacher asked a student if a veteran was in the room who had been crippled in war, how he would feel about sitting down. The student responded, "I'd thank him for giving me the RIGHT to sit down." It's seen almost like thanking people for presents. It's polite, but if you just go "Man, this is awesome!" it's not as nice, but they get that your still happy about it. Unless they're a tight ass.

[leanlifter1]

At 1/2/14 11:55 AM, CommanderFalcon wrote:

It's a lot less scary if the person telling you that ALSO points out that no one is REQUIRED to do that. It's voluntary. That said, there are teachers who GREATLY disapprove of not doing it, and one teacher asked a student if a veteran was in the room who had been crippled in war, how he would feel about sit...

America needs a great big slap in the fact and so does anyone willing to fight in illegitimate wars.

[randomperson23]

At 1/1/14 04:42 PM, AJ wrote:

At 1/1/14 04:24 PM, randomperson23 wrote: Its not the same exact propaganda, but both countries promote nationalism in the same ways.

By throwing dissenting citizens into labor camps for life, and murdering their families?

Killing dissenters is different than promoting nationalism, because promoting nationalism is just using speech, but killing dissenters is a result of people who indulge in the promotion of nationalism.

[AJ]

At 1/2/14 11:55 AM, CommanderFalcon wrote: one teacher asked a student if a veteran was in the room who had been crippled in war, how he would feel about sitting down. The student responded, "I'd thank him for giving me the RIGHT to sit down."

Oh yeah, and that student? It was EINSTEIN. Like/share if u agree.

[Ranger2]

At 1/1/14 10:33 AM, Fim wrote: One of the weirdest things I ever learned was that apparently in the US every kid in school has to pledge allegiance to the flag and country every morning. To someone who's not from the states that is really scary.

Half the kids don't even say the pledge. It's available for those who want to but it's not like you get in trouble if you don't.

[laughatyourfuneral]

At 1/1/14 04:42 PM, AJ wrote:

At 1/1/14 04:24 PM, randomperson23 wrote: Its not the same exact propaganda, but both countries promote nationalism in the same ways.

By throwing dissenting citizens into labor camps for life, and murdering their families?

Yes

[FC-Thun-Fan]

At 1/3/14 04:10 AM, Ranger2 wrote:

At 1/1/14 10:33 AM, Fim wrote: One of the weirdest things I ever learned was that apparently in the US every kid in school has to pledge allegiance to the flag and country every morning. To someone who's not from the states that is really scary.

Half the kids don't even say the pledge. It's available for those who want to but it's not like you get in trouble if you don't.

You (I don't mean specifically you, but anyone who said "well it's voluntary" or something along those lines) can defend the pledge all you want. But don't you think the fact that it is a regular fixture in your life, even if you don't say it yourself, makes that type of nationalism very acceptable in society? It's an "atmosphere" of nationalism that we don't see in any European country I know of. It's also quite different from the "non-issue" of the state churches in Sweden and Denmark somebody mentioned earlier, as the fact that these state churches exist truly has no impact on people's everyday lives. Which is quite different from something that takes place on every school day. Whether you participate or not, subconsciously you're receiving a message that this is "normal".

[AxTekk]

At 1/1/14 08:51 AM, Xiicubed wrote: North Korea portrayed Kim Il-sung as a perfect flawless heroic figure who fought for the force of good. America does the same thing with George Washington and Abraham Lincoln.

Americans don't literally believe George Washington was the reincarnation of an ancient hero, that his birth was accompanied by heavenly signs, that he wrote 38 operas (now conveniently lost) which were "better than anything in the history of music" and that he literally did not defecate (from his official North Korean biography).

The rest of your argument is just more false parallelisms. Seriously, America isn't as bad as North Korea and nor does it have to be for us to discuss it's faults.

[Warforger]

At 1/6/14 10:38 AM, FC-Thun-Fan wrote: You (I don't mean specifically you, but anyone who said "well it's voluntary" or something along those lines) can defend the pledge all you want. But don't you think the fact that it is a regular fixture in your life, even if you don't say it yourself, makes that type of nationalism very acceptable in society? It's an "atmosphere" of nationalism that we don't see in any European country I know of. It's also quite different from the "non-issue" of the state churches in Sweden and Denmark somebody mentioned earlier, as the fact that these state churches exist truly has no impact on people's everyday lives. Which is quite different from something that takes place on every school day. Whether you participate or not, subconsciously you're receiving a message that this is "normal".

No, it doesn't really create an atmosphere like you said either honestly. It's hard to explain if you're not actually here and had gone through it and is a non issue at this point. It's something that came and went in the day, some 10 seconds of mumbling some words and that was it. Let's put it like this, it was so inconsequential that if people forgot to do it nobody noticed. It is very much like the state churches in Europe.

[FC-Thun-Fan]

At 1/6/14 12:39 PM, Warforger wrote:
No, it doesn't really create an atmosphere like you said either honestly. It's hard to explain if you're not actually here and had gone through it and is a non issue at this point. It's something that came and went in the day, some 10 seconds of mumbling some words and that was it. Let's put it like this, it was so inconsequential that if people forgot to do it nobody noticed. It is very much like the state churches in Europe.

I'm not one to overestimate these kind of effects normally, but I'm sure it can't be talked down to nothing, seeing as it is a regular feature of the day. But yeah, depending on where you grow up and what your teacher's approach is it's probably pretty irrelevant. I'll take your word for that. However, as others in this thread have mentioned: some teachers took/take it seriously, therefore it must have some effect on people's mentality on a subconscious level. Such influences are very subtle, so I wouldn't necessarily bank on the fact that just because you did not perceive any effects there are none on your society.

[Camarohusky]

At 1/6/14 01:11 PM, FC-Thun-Fan wrote: Such influences are very subtle, so I wouldn't necessarily bank on the fact that just because you did not perceive any effects there are none on your society.

I said it nearly every day for 12 years and 10 years later I can't even remember how it goes. Not exactly a strong influence.

You have a point, but you're aiming it the absolute wrong way. Not only is the Pledge largely inconsequential, the inclusion of "under God" actually pushes many high school students to openly question the government.

A better way to go would be the playing of the national anthem before sports games and the strong inclusion of the pro-military culture into popular football (and other sports to a lesser degree). The American sports industry is a far stronger proponent of nationalism than the pledge is.

[leanlifter1]

At 1/6/14 01:46 PM, Entice wrote:

At 1/6/14 12:32 PM, AxTekk wrote: Seriously, America isn't as bad as North Korea and nor does it have to be for us to discuss it's faults.

This is key. Why is it so hard to criticize America without comparing it to the most oppressive dictatorship on Earth?

Actually America is closer to the Nazi Germany model than it is Korea.

[Tony-DarkGrave]

At 1/6/14 02:34 PM, Entice wrote:

At 1/6/14 02:29 PM, leanlifter1 wrote: Actually America is closer to the Nazi Germany model than it is Korea.

We're a single party state? A totalitarian dictatorship? Our current ruler wrote a book detailing exactly how he would seize control of the government and take over Europe?

oh don't forget killing all of those minorities and ethnic groups.

[AxTekk]

At 1/6/14 02:44 PM, Tony-DarkGrave wrote: oh don't forget killing all of those minorities and ethnic groups.

That diiiiiiid kind of happen though, with the Native Americans and slavery and stuff. Nowhere near similar, just think you'd be better off pointing to other inconsistencies to dispute his claim.

[Tony-DarkGrave]

At 1/6/14 02:45 PM, AxTekk wrote:

At 1/6/14 02:44 PM, Tony-DarkGrave wrote: oh don't forget killing all of those minorities and ethnic groups.

That diiiiiiid kind of happen though, with the Native Americans and slavery and stuff. Nowhere near similar, just think you'd be better off pointing to other inconsistencies to dispute his claim.

talking about modern day not some bullshit that happened 100 some years ago. hell if anything we uplifted the native americans and brought them into the civilized world, sure there might have been some systemized killings and conflicts but it was no where as malicious and intentional as the Nazis.