Multiple elements - EQ

[Lachi]

This may sound a bit noobish (well of course, it's from me).

As long as I have the kick and the bass, I know how things work. Just equalize both cutting useless frequencies, making room for each instrument. Boosting a little the key frequencies, lowering others, etc.
Let's start to add another kick: no problems. Claps, snares and hats are all fine too, if a good EQ is done.

Problems come when we start to add other percussions. With all those drums there is small room for other percussions (there is still a lot of room for other instruments, though).

What are the solutions?

1) Lowering some channels' volume?
2) Removing unnecessary channels? (2 percussions instead of 3, only claps and no snares, etc)
3) What else?

Basically the question is: when there is no room left for the mix, what do?

[Buoy]

At 3/8/13 03:30 PM, Lachi wrote: Basically the question is: when there is no room left for the mix, what do?

You have to make room. Each instrument has to fit together with the entire rest of the mix, not just what you've already done. There are lots of tips and tricks on how to get a good mix but that's the main principle that you have to be aware of.

So you can either take care of everything in the end, or you can continually readjust and reevaluate your mix as you work on your song (which is what I do). That means for example scooping out some frequencies in the piano when you add a new guitar part which could potentially clash with it. A combined spectrum analyzer and graphic EQ is fantastically helpful for this. And don't be afraid of cutting "key frequencies" since they might actually just be too loud. It's a case by case thing and you just get a better and better intuition of that kind of stuff the more you do it.

One thing you didn't mention is panning. Shifting an instrument (usually not a good idea with bass, lead melody, kick and snare) just a bit to one side can make more space for the stuff happening in the middle while also giving you a wider stereo image.

[Lachi]

At 3/8/13 03:52 PM, Buoy wrote:
You have to make room. Each instrument has to fit together with the entire rest of the mix, not just what you've already done. There are lots of tips and tricks on how to get a good mix but that's the main principle that you have to be aware of.
etc

Yes panning! Totally forgot about it, but it's another solution.

By the way I always do what you said: whenever I add a pattern/channel, I put it in the mixer and adjust all the frequencies, volume, etc. But I have a doubt: is it good cutting frequencies ONLY WHEN NECESSARY? Let's say I have this intro:

0:00 to 0:10 bass
then the kick enters.

The frequencies I should cut to the bass are for all the whole song, or only when needed? I don't know if you get what I mean but I'm really bad at explaining, sorry. Thanks for answering

[Buoy]

At 3/8/13 03:58 PM, Lachi wrote: The frequencies I should cut to the bass are for all the whole song, or only when needed? I don't know if you get what I mean but I'm really bad at explaining, sorry. Thanks for answering

You can automate the equalizers, sure, it's just more work. It might sound jumpy or unnatural if you do it dramatically or blatantly.

EQ isn't the solution to everything though of course, I would say it's far more important that the sounds and melodies you use fit well together initially.

[Lachi]

At 3/8/13 04:12 PM, Buoy wrote: EQ isn't the solution to everything though of course, I would say it's far more important that the sounds and melodies you use fit well together initially.

Well yeah, we're talking as we already have melodic and harmonic material that actually sounds good by itself.

For the automating effects, I was watching a video where a guy used a Peak controller to automate the Bass frequencies, so that when the kick hit, a certain bass' frequency lowered making the kick more pumping. I guess there are multiple ways here, too...

Thanks Buoy, I'll keep practising on this, like I did when I was stuck creating melodies and progressions... hopefully I will get better at it.

[Buoy]

At 3/8/13 04:20 PM, Lachi wrote: For the automating effects, I was watching a video where a guy used a Peak controller to automate the Bass frequencies, so that when the kick hit, a certain bass' frequency lowered making the kick more pumping.

That's called sidechaining if you want to look that up. Very common effect, useful for cleaning up the bottom end if you use it on a bass instrument, and if you use it on pads your song becomes groovy in an instant!

[frootza]

Bouy is on point with everything here. When I was going to school for music production, my Professor briefly explained this (among others) method of visualization...

All of the music you hear on a track is contained within a very large three dimensional cube (visualize this). If you boost a piano track and a bass track to the max, what will that look like inside the cube? It would look square, filling the flat pane closest to the viewer.

If, for instance you lowered the piano, the piano goes further back into the cube. Same with the bass. Now, fit a trumpet into the cube. Do you want it to be located near the piano and bass? Or jump closer to the viewer in the cube?

When you are tracking live drums, the toms and floor tom are panned to the left or right depending on the player's style. You can emulate this electronically with simple panning.

Sometimes if you are to lower one instrument, the listener will still pick up on it. It doesn't have to overpower the track.

[Buoy]

At 3/9/13 02:18 PM, frootza wrote: All of the music you hear on a track is contained within a very large three dimensional cube (visualize this). If you boost a piano track and a bass track to the max, what will that look like inside the cube? It would look square, filling the flat pane closest to the viewer.

That's a really good analogy

[MetalRenard]

Try sing different amounts and types of reverb. Reverb can allow you to "push back" or "bring forward" a sound. Be careful though, using different reverbs is tricky and you should be very careful how you mix it.

[Lachi]

@Frootza - yes, that's a really good analogy, makes something a bit more clear

@Metal R - Yeah, I guess effects do their part too

Thank you all guise

[Ragamuffin]

Interestingly, when I mix with channel volumes at -3db (making use of that software headroom mind!) Even without compression, I have lots of trouble getting lots of percussion to fit.

However, when the entire song is mixed with channels being no higher than -12 (Of course recorded higher than that in 16 bit and moved down, or recorded to that level at 32 bit) I can fit what seems like an infinite amount of anything in the track. Save for layering sub-basses, there is this weird, unexplainable space that seems to open up.

Also, instead of compressing drum hits, I find that it helps to use a sharp, tall expander followed by a powerful but not sustaining compressor, while keeping the same peak volume. This gives the drum sound less sustain, while keeping the power. Great for when lots of rhythmic elements are going against each other.

[Ectohelix]

If just panning isn't enough, you could always try mid/side or 'stereoization'. Leaving your kick/bass (and some freq of snare) in the middle, but moving the brighter percussion/effects out to the sides.