Okay, here's what I'd call a beta, or a concept if you please, of an enemy. It seems geared to be a boss, but then again, you never know...
Anything else I should add before I start the coloring and detailing?

We need to talk about the angle...is this going to be completely top down???

Good question. I had kind of hoped for a "mostly" top down angle, it just seems like there's more stuff you can do, but if it needs to be completely top down, that's cool.

At 11/8/09 11:32 PM, DooDooMeaT wrote: We need to talk about the angle...is this going to be completely top down???

The specs are up guys, read BOMs post in the discussion thread very carefully, but here it is in a nut shell
All images must be rasterized
Final product in .gif or .png format
If you are going to animate something, the fewer the frames the better.
The speed of the level is changeable between levels.
Mini bosses are ok, but go light on them.
Final bosses should have at most 3 stages (2 horsemen at a time, followed by all 4 together maybe?)
Bullets can looks custom, but will behave in a set manner
Intro and Exit cutscenes are ok
Penis

At 11/8/09 11:42 PM, deadspread83 wrote: Good question. I had kind of hoped for a "mostly" top down angle, it just seems like there's more stuff you can do, but if it needs to be completely top down, that's cool.

At 11/8/09 11:32 PM, DooDooMeaT wrote: We need to talk about the angle...is this going to be completely top down???

if people want a mostly top down thats fine, chances are we can fudge around between the two and it wont be too obvious. Although maybe im thinking mostly top down meaning something different, someone care to give an example between the two?

At 11/9/09 12:20 AM, angryglacier wrote: TL;DR: needs moar bioshock feeling.

We can have an intro and exit cutscene, I dont think the programmers want to do much more than that.

At 11/9/09 12:51 AM, angryglacier wrote: I'm thinking maybe there could be advanced machinery that could be left unharmed

Elaborate

I'll post what we have to far set in stone tommorow and start giving you guys more spesific assingments. And yes i know i havent drawn anything yet, I'm in the middle of my senior review board which ends next week so I probably wont have to much art till then.

let's say that having your "ship" change mid-stream to another look isn't possible for now...I might change this rule later, but for now...No

I think we could create a simple enough story with just surrounding details in the very beginning with spray paint on a wall saying there's a gas station 10 miles ahead or something like that and we have an un-named "hero" who goes around fucking up peoples shit.

Oh and here's a basic idea of what gangbanger dudes runnin' around with some guns could be like:

This is what I had envisioned anyway. If we do one or the other, it's probably best to use a template like the red lines in this picture so the perspective is the same on everyone's pic... just my 2 cents

At 11/9/09 01:21 AM, ornery wrote:

if people want a mostly top down thats fine, chances are we can fudge around between the two and it wont be too obvious. Although maybe im thinking mostly top down meaning something different, someone care to give an example between the two?

At 11/8/09 11:04 PM, Endless-Psychoticism wrote: Okay, here's what I'd call a beta, or a concept if you please, of an enemy. It seems geared to be a boss, but then again, you never know...
Anything else I should add before I start the coloring and detailing?

that looks more cyber punk then post post-apocalyptic.

think post-apocalyptic, a wasteland, after a major disaster or nukeular war.
there is no electric, no government, not much in the way of clean water or food.
only machinery is crude gas powered things, like engines and hand cranked devices.

Weapons are guns and improvised explosives.
Basic planes and modified vehicles .

try to think what it would be like if most every one you knew was gone, you had no technology and you had to build things to survive and defeand your self.
things humans can do with out complex machines or technicians.

WHAT WE HAVE SO FAR
Boss Idea = 4 Horsemen of the apocalypse
Player Idea = On foot
Controls = Keyboard straight ahead
WHAT I NEED FROM YOU GUYS
Enemies - When you draw an enemy, be prepared to have behavior pattern ready. Show which way it shoots, what kind of bullet, rate of fire, what they look like when they shoot, and what they look like when they move, and any other details that BOM might need. If you are going to animate the move fire and death make it happen in 3 frames or less. Here is a stupidly simple sketch of what i mean.
Bullets - What do we want our bullets to look like, I love the idea of a cockroach gun as the special, its hilarious. But we should probably settle on at least 4 (will most likely be more) bullet designs, for now just brainstorm this category because we don't know how many bullets BOM will let us have.
Backgrounds -
Far Far - I want one person to work on the farthest background, make two large textures baisically that we will loop through, this one will move very slow.
Farish - This will gradually get more and more damaged as the player moves forward again, for simplicity sake one person work this one, should be more detailed texture essentially than the far far bg
Far and BG - These two are what will really tell the story, anyone can work these with elements, this is where you put your dead bodies, craters, trash, ect. things that DONT interact with the player
Ground - This stuff is interactive elements, that CANT be destroyed, big rocks, cliffs, big holes ect.
Foreground - birds, smoke, debris, clouds, ect.
Voice Acting
During the boss fight I want the bosses to insult the shit out of the player, I have also been given the go ahead that we can add in story advancing voice acting at key points, each level will have its own unique story. I want QUALITY audio here. So if you have a scratchy mic or low recording quality dont even bother, you are more than welcome to suggest things to say though.
Cut Senes
Intro and Exit, this is where we need someone who can animate, it dosent have to be elaborate, can just be a few pretty still pictures moving slowly with a bit of voice over, needs to be SHORT though.
Music
Needs to be looping, one for level and one for boss fight though, I'm open to suggestions here, hopeing for a bit more than just some grinding rock track or VG technoish thing.

At 11/9/09 03:24 AM, BoMToons wrote: let's say that having your "ship" change mid-stream to another look isn't possible for now...I might change this rule later, but for now...No

good to know

At 11/9/09 06:45 AM, flashwarrior wrote: I think we could create a simple enough story with just surrounding details in the very beginning with spray paint on a wall saying there's a gas station 10 miles ahead or something like that and we have an un-named "hero" who goes around fucking up peoples shit.

Now THAT sounds doable, and quite awesome actually, I'll try to figure out a way to distribute story details to you guys, but first i suppose we have to think of one. nothing too complex really, but I do like the idea of telling it through objects you pass. Since its leading up to the horsemen maybe more and more destruction in the landscape and bodies as you get closer.

Oh and here's a basic idea of what gangbanger dudes runnin' around with some guns could be like:

works for me

At 11/9/09 09:01 AM, deadspread83 wrote: This is what I had envisioned anyway. If we do one or the other, it's probably best to use a template like the red lines in this picture so the perspective is the same on everyone's pic... just my 2 cents

I'll leave this up to a group vote. The direct top down is easier for the less experienced artists, and while I do want to challenge them, I don't want it so that they spend the entire time on one piece trying to get the perspective right, but if the others are willing to do it I'm all for it, ill take a majority vote.

At 11/9/09 09:01 AM, deadspread83 wrote: This is what I had envisioned anyway. If we do one or the other, it's probably best to use a template like the red lines in this picture so the perspective is the same on everyone's pic... just my 2 cents

I think the first will be a bit easier to work with in most cases, and will look less distorted since there won't be any messing around with perspective and that stuff. I don't know for sure, I hope other people say what they think about it.

At 11/9/09 12:48 PM, ornery wrote: Backgrounds -

I'm gonna sound like a retard, but I seriously don't get the far, farish BG categories and things. This is top down, won't we only see the ground?

During the boss fight I want the bosses to insult the shit out of the player,

Can they swear their asses off? :D
"Man, you suck DICK at this game! ahahha!"

story details to you guys, but first i suppose we have to think of one. nothing too complex really, but I do like the idea of telling it through objects you pass. Since its leading up to the horsemen maybe more and more destruction in the landscape and bodies as you get closer.

Maybe some sort of war happened, or the military started killing everyone or something?
Or there were tons of capitals nuked and everything turned to anarchy so the military started killing everyone who had weapons?

Oh and here's a sort of updated idea of the gangbanger guys, I guess itd take like 5-10 shots to kill it.

About the perspective...I think that it would add to the look of the game if we made things look like they have more dimension but I understand that it would be harder for the less experienced artists and I believe that this should be a project for everybody and I wouldn't want to make it harder for people.

I think that this type of game is harder to make look good than a side scrolling game...

About the background...There is only going to be one background, the ground. Everything is going to move at the same speed...

More thoughts to come in a bit :D

Hey, I'm the new guy :3
Imo before everyone starts drawing we should have a clear concept.
I tried to follow all teams working on this collab and most of them are still trying to fix on a concept.
They are trying to find a scenery for there level:
atmosphere, story and such

So I think before everyone starts to work on his/her own littel project we should try to find one goal we are aming for.
First step would be (imo) to think about how we got to this world our level takes place in.
Just throw in simple short thoughts.

Mine:
- third world war
- atomic war -> radiation (maybe a bit fallout but still it's the most plausible scenery)
- who began/fought the war (best would be not to use real countries) -> dictatorship? evil group [of villains... maybe not serious enough]

How does the "new world" look like:
- everything destroyed -> ruins everywhere, also destroyed tanks everywhere, before they used the atomic weapons there would have been a "normal war" (sounds hard, didn't know how to describe it :-/ )
- dark sky, smoke, ash
- anarchy
-> maybe some people grouped up to gain power over the shatterd mankind -> player's mission is to destroy this group
- as said: few resources left

Or we could see the apocalypse as the biblical apocalypse:
- fire/lava everywhere
- deamons
- horsemen as minibosses, devil as final boss
- fanatic group trying to control mankind or religious/holy character

Who is our charakter?
Why does he fight? Just to survive?

As we can have "Floating ship pods" -> maybe the characters meets other survivors and groups up

These are just some ideas floating in my head when I here apocalypse

I hope this doesn't look like I'm trying to "take over control", I'm just trying to help.

Hope we will have a great time as a team and a awesome result :)

Is there anyone that might want to make a few universal flames for our team to use for broken vehicles and such, or could someone atleast give me some pointers on doing a short flame loop for this broken down tank I'm working on?

At 11/9/09 11:29 AM, Ani-x wrote: that looks more cyber punk then post post-apocalyptic.

I know, I know. Ornery told me yesterday.

think post-apocalyptic, a wasteland, after a major disaster or nukeular war.
there is no electric, no government, not much in the way of clean water or food.
only machinery is crude gas powered things, like engines and hand cranked devices.

I was, somewhat. Since it could have been after a nuclear war, I went with a big guy getting forcefully fused with a nearby turret during and after the blast. Hm, maybe I should just have him on a turret or something.

Weapons are guns and improvised explosives.
Basic planes and modified vehicles .

Yeh, give me time, and I'll put him on a modded gocart.

try to think what it would be like if most every one you knew was gone, you had no technology and you had to build things to survive and defeand your self.
things humans can do with out complex machines or technicians.

Will do in the future...

At 11/9/09 07:20 PM, flashwarrior wrote: Is there anyone that might want to make a few universal flames for our team to use for broken vehicles and such, or could someone atleast give me some pointers on doing a short flame loop for this broken down tank I'm working on?

He is a nice sample for you. http://www.cartoonsolutions.com/store/pr oduct.php?productid=16257

At 11/9/09 08:19 PM, DooDooMeaT wrote:

At 11/9/09 07:20 PM, flashwarrior wrote: Is there anyone that might want to make a few universal flames for our team to use for broken vehicles and such, or could someone atleast give me some pointers on doing a short flame loop for this broken down tank I'm working on?

He is a nice sample for you. http://www.cartoonsolutions.com/store/pr oduct.php?productid=16257

Who the hell would I use a sample in an art forum collab lololol

But really, anybody have any pointers for a good flame animation?

I am still not completely sold on this guy walking around as the main character...You are going to be looking at his back the whole time...I just think it is silly that he would just shoot up...It would be different if he would be able to do a 360 degree turn...the game is also going to be constantly moving, pushing the player foreword so even if the character is standing still the stage will still be moving...it sounds like a real bed Atari game.

The game engine is being built for a ship...but whatever.

Maybe in the story the guy has some sort neurological problem from the nuclear fallout that makes it impossible for him to turn his body :D

Also...3 frames for an explosion??? In a 60fps game...will the human eye even pick that up?

More thoughts later :)

::

Who the hell would I use a sample in an art forum collab lololol

hmm???...That is a good looking flame. Look at the way it moves and reacts then draw your own.

At 11/9/09 08:51 PM, DooDooMeaT wrote:

Who the hell would I use a sample in an art forum collab lololol

hmm???...That is a good looking flame. Look at the way it moves and reacts then draw your own.

OH okay lol, I thought you were suggestion I use it for some reason.

Don't blame me I don't know any better! :P

At 11/9/09 08:43 PM, DooDooMeaT wrote: I am still not completely sold on this guy walking around as the main character...You are going to be looking at his back the whole time...I just think it is silly that he would just shoot up...It would be different if he would be able to do a 360 degree turn...the game is also going to be constantly moving, pushing the player foreword so even if the character is standing still the stage will still be moving...it sounds like a real bed Atari game.

The main character is constantly running, at the same pace as the background is moving.

And here's a barrel/drum thing I drew that could have toxic waste come from it once it is destroyed or something along those lines, or it could just be used as a blockade.

At 11/9/09 09:09 PM, flashwarrior wrote: And here's a barrel/drum thing I drew that could have toxic waste come from it once it is destroyed or something along those lines, or it could just be used as a blockade.

Woah I forgot the whole top down thing here.

At 11/9/09 09:09 PM, flashwarrior wrote:

And here's a barrel/drum thing I drew that could have toxic waste come from it once it is destroyed or something along those lines, or it could just be used as a blockade.

You have to think about the perspective....how would a barrel look for a birds eye view.

How about instead of on foot he's on a badass motorcycle????

Okay here's the top down view of the barrel after my mess up:

I'm cool with completely top down. I do have a concern that the main character isn't going to be very interesting looking with that perspective. I think that a motorcycle would make more sense, especially since most of the shumps I've played move along at a pretty quick pace, but i'm not adamant one way or the other, just my opinion :)

I think it would be neat if as the character gets closer to the final bosses, the ground changes, like if its a standard dilapidated urban sprawl that gives way to a more volcanic look, the the earth/pavement cracking and showing whats underneath. Kind of a way to transition from the vehicle based enemies to the more biblical badass monster enemies (if that's the direction we go) I think it would be easy enough, if the entire map background were planned out before hand.

At 11/9/09 10:10 PM, deadspread83 wrote: some stuff...

good stuff!
______________________
and that barrel looks much better :D

At 11/9/09 08:43 PM, DooDooMeaT wrote: I am still not completely sold on this guy walking around as the main character

I understand that it seems silly, but I've seen it successfully used in games before of this style. But i'll give you guys this option, If one of you can come up with a sketch of the main character not on foot I'll will accept it under these conditions. He cant be a car or tank, cant be flying and if its a motorcycle it had better be goddamn creative. The main reason for the walking besides atmosphere was to challenge us to do something besides your typical vehicle, even heavily moded a car is still a car.

The game engine is being built for a ship...but whatever.

Its exactly that mentality why the game industry spits out cookie cutter space marine games and GTA clones so much. It may have been built with a ship in mind, but that doesn't mean it wont work with other things.

Maybe in the story the guy has some sort neurological problem from the nuclear fallout that makes it impossible for him to turn his body :D

A big gun strapped to his shoulders could work as well. Remeber you can get upgrades to your gun.

Also...3 frames for an explosion??? In a 60fps game...will the human eye even pick that up?

Im just repeating what was mentioned in the disscussion thread, yes its 60 frames a second, but thats for bullet speed. I dont quite know how animation works in gameplay with fluxuating frame rates, but BOM does and he mentioned 3 frame animation, unless im interpreting that wrong.

At 11/9/09 08:47 PM, angryglacier wrote: Also I made some sketches of a slow firing turret with a musket on it, a soldier, and a fast moving sentry robot with no head long legs and a gun placed at the top of it.

A robot is out of the question, thats cyber punk through and through. And the other sketches look more in that genre as well. We have a difficult one because lots of post apocalyptic things will look steampunk or cyberpunk if we arent careful. Think everyday items used in different ways, like busted stuff, cuz thats all that will be available in those times really.

Anyone with gmail or anythin that connects with gmail put Angryglacierartforum@gmail.com on your contacts if you want to talk about the post apocalyptic level.

If you have gmail you can do AIM, i dont quite know how to set that up but my roomate does, ill ask him how tommorow.

Ive decided to go with the slightly angled perspective. It seems people want that more and i think its a doable challange for the less experienced. Like deadspread had, just use a box as a guide. If you guys need we can make a template so that we maintain consistancy.

I have also been thinking about the story, and am leaning more towards the idea that we dont need to go into to much detail, the vaguer it is the more mysterious and suprising the bosses would be. Something like we dont know what happened, sorta like the first 2 exmortis games, started in isolated areas, then all of the sudden major cities were being destroyed and there was chaos, dont need to go into what exactly destroyed them, you can make it look however you want, nuke, war, ect. And it very well could be that, but if we don't specify the cause we leave ourselves open to more ideas. Because what really matters isn't how the world was destroyed, more that it IS destroyed and now you have to get by.

At 11/9/09 03:44 PM, flashwarrior wrote: Can they swear their asses off? :D
"Man, you suck DICK at this game! ahahha!"

they can swear, but lets keep the dialogue at least somewhat game related, for atmosphere and all.

Oh and here's a sort of updated idea of the gangbanger guys, I guess itd take like 5-10 shots to kill it.

Dont know how hit points are implemented yet but they look good, now skew them to fit the perspective.

At 11/9/09 05:25 PM, DooDooMeaT wrote: I think that this type of game is harder to make look good than a side scrolling game...

yeah we definetly got the short end of the stick there, but we will manage, and doing a side scrolling one would present its own challanges so no one is really easier than the other.

About the background...There is only going to be one background, the ground. Everything is going to move at the same speed...

Yep, and that speed will be relatively slow, so make the objects on it nice and pretty cuz the player will have plenty of time to look at them.

At 11/9/09 05:49 PM, Kreu-Zung wrote: Imo before everyone starts drawing we should have a clear concept.

I agree that we should settle on a story pretty soon, but its not the most crucial thing, it holds equal bearing in our case because post apocalyptic has a set feel and look to it that the story doesn't need to influence as much.

How does the "new world" look like:

We kinda established all that a while back, read the thread.

Or we could see the apocalypse as the biblical apocalypse:

How bout a combo of both

Who is our charakter?
Why does he fight? Just to survive?

its a scrolling shooter, its kinda hard to address all that in one level. Never forget that first and foremost this is a showcasing of what a group of artists of varying skills can put together, not necessarily a masterpiece in story telling.

As we can have "Floating ship pods" -> maybe the characters meets other survivors and groups up

Again scrolling shooter, allies if there are any will come in the form of power ups.

We should definitely make a template for the perspective. I mean, we're all artists here, right? So if we can get the template, then we can make our ideas work within the template, making it easy for everybody to have the same perspective. If somebody has a 3d progam, it would probably be pretty simple to take the outline of a rectangle and turn it slightly. Now that I think about it, illustrator probably does it too. If nobody gets to it first, I may do it.

At 11/9/09 11:09 PM, deadspread83 wrote: We should definitely make a template for the perspective. I mean, we're all artists here, right? So if we can get the template, then we can make our ideas work within the template, making it easy for everybody to have the same perspective. If somebody has a 3d progam, it would probably be pretty simple to take the outline of a rectangle and turn it slightly. Now that I think about it, illustrator probably does it too. If nobody gets to it first, I may do it.

Well, if you want, I can get this one program called Google Sketchup. It's made by Google, and essentially creates 3D things. Plus, I have some experience with it.

If nobody has it already, this is what I was thinking...