Rank | Medal Points | Difference | Gain vs. New Medals | Gain vs. Leader | Username | Change
001. 766675 | .-00185 | .-00860 | ====== | Nijsse
002. 707675 | .-00150 | .-00825 | +00035 | PhantasyReal
003. 617855 | +00105 | .-00570 | +00290 | HerbieG
004. 567480 | +00475 | .-00200 | +00660 | Ray80
005. 560785 | +00155 | .-00520 | +00340 | PulseLane
006. 553380 | +02610 | +01935 | +02795 | NeonSpider
007. 524340 | .-00155 | .-00830 | +00030 | Amereep
008. 519350 | +00070 | .-00605 | +00255 | reflectionist
009. 517825 | +00205 | .-00470 | +00390 | EdyKel
010. 504715 | +00160 | .-00515 | +00345 | Optimos
011. 492405 | +00235 | .-00440 | +00420 | Glamdrung
012. 465015 | +00095 | .-00580 | +00280 | Slingerz
013. 430840 | .-00025 | .-00700 | +00160 | cyberdemonio
014. 394130 | .-00055 | .-00730 | +00130 | ionrayner
015. 387775 | +00000 | .-00675 | +00185 | Fooliolo
016. 387560 | +00530 | .-00145 | +00715 | Plasmarift
017. 378800 | +00135 | .-00540 | +00320 | BADGIRLQC
018. 364695 | .-00005 | .-00680 | +00180 | Mascetti
019. 361635 | +00000 | .-00675 | +00185 | yound
020. 355035 | +00025 | .-00650 | +00210 | Gooch
021. 354635 | .-00010 | .-00685 | +00175 | Knuckstrike
022. 348955 | +00100 | .-00575 | +00285 | VJF
023. 347400 | +00105 | .-00570 | +00290 | shannon821
024. 341910 | .-00010 | .-00685 | +00175 | SFS1313
025. 339400 | +04785 | +04110 | +04970 | athomas5
026. 328135 | +00060 | .-00615 | +00245 | TheMircster
027. 327025 | +00150 | .-00525 | +00335 | RyoSangnoir
028. 324020 | +00000 | .-00675 | +00185 | Mitrim
029. 307385 | .-00055 | .-00730 | +00130 | BreakingBad
030. 301080 | +00100 | .-00575 | +00285 | Shantom
031. 299555 | +00545 | .-00130 | +00730 | beavinator +1
032. 299360 | +00000 | .-00675 | +00185 | Rubyvex -1
033. 297675 | +00000 | .-00675 | +00185 | kirkdewinter
034. 293500 | +00000 | .-00675 | +00185 | queenofbabes
035. 292125 | +00000 | .-00675 | +00185 | SubNoctem
036. 288850 | +00000 | .-00675 | +00185 | Black1998
037. 288525 | +00335 | .-00340 | +00520 | KamenRiderStick +1
038. 288205 | +00000 | .-00675 | +00185 | classicmaster -1
039. 284600 | .-00005 | .-00680 | +00180 | Fioresa
040. 284485 | +00105 | .-00570 | +00290 | akajackfrost
041. 269640 | +00105 | .-00570 | +00290 | DoctorStrongbad
042. 259335 | +00075 | .-00600 | +00260 | Riveet099
043. 258135 | .-00100 | .-00775 | +00085 | bivn123456789
044. 252995 | +00020 | .-00655 | +00205 | eunit5130
045. 252620 | +00000 | .-00675 | +00185 | nosesocks
046. 251595 | +00000 | .-00675 | +00185 | crankbait
047. 250040 | +00525 | .-00150 | +00710 | CrackerJack30 +1
048. 250005 | +00000 | .-00675 | +00185 | jt263 -1
049. 247240 | +00000 | .-00675 | +00185 | norat374
050. 245340 | +00285 | .-00390 | +00470 | supersavage

051. 244340 | +00000 | .-00675 | +00185 | Riccowed
052. 243540 | +00050 | .-00625 | +00235 | darkmatt93
053. 242725 | +00000 | .-00675 | +00185 | RHawk
054. 241740 | +00115 | .-00560 | +00300 | terebella12
055. 240830 | +00000 | .-00675 | +00185 | MI4-REAL-2001
056. 240765 | +01675 | +01000 | +01860 | Big-Boss +2
057. 239705 | +00490 | .-00185 | +00675 | Rsharp723894 -1
058. 239190 | +00000 | .-00675 | +00185 | Yozh -1
059. 237850 | +00000 | .-00675 | +00185 | RedN
060. 237680 | +00000 | .-00675 | +00185 | chaosbot
061. 236015 | +00000 | .-00675 | +00185 | DrenZ
062. 233905 | +00000 | .-00675 | +00185 | Definitiv
063. 230395 | +00000 | .-00675 | +00185 | DDK123
064. 227785 | +00155 | .-00520 | +00340 | paul09
065. 226895 | +00000 | .-00675 | +00185 | darkfg
066. 224490 | +00000 | .-00675 | +00185 | Yatsufusa
067. 221805 | +00000 | .-00675 | +00185 | silverkitty23
068. 219890 | +00000 | .-00675 | +00185 | someaveragechap
069. 218910 | +00000 | .-00675 | +00185 | Bombenhagel
070. 218165 | +00000 | .-00675 | +00185 | BSEfcukde
071. 215090 | +00000 | .-00675 | +00185 | Wia88
072. 214335 | +00000 | .-00675 | +00185 | Mace13
073. 210755 | +00000 | .-00675 | +00185 | EventHorizon
074. 209295 | +00015 | .-00660 | +00200 | Righttime
075. 209195 | +00200 | .-00475 | +00385 | priscillawing
076. 204475 | +00000 | .-00675 | +00185 | VicariousE
077. 203455 | +00000 | .-00675 | +00185 | MaitreVaati
078. 202275 | +00000 | .-00675 | +00185 | BBaaTTuuHHaaNN
079. 201070 | .-00055 | .-00730 | +00130 | Sizzlebuzz
080. 199000 | +13860 | +13185 | +14045 | Bobogoobo +14
081. 195075 | +00000 | .-00675 | +00185 | IngeniousCheese -1
082. 194030 | +00000 | .-00675 | +00185 | RamUrMother -1
083. 192645 | +00000 | .-00675 | +00185 | krachiii -1
084. 192125 | +00000 | .-00675 | +00185 | Jimmy515 -1
085. 191500 | +00000 | .-00675 | +00185 | bortpoo -1
086. 190830 | +00000 | .-00675 | +00185 | tgras -1
087. 190730 | +00000 | .-00675 | +00185 | AlanDee -1
088. 190195 | +00000 | .-00675 | +00185 | GunslingerAK -1
089. 190095 | +00015 | .-00660 | +00200 | gamejunkie -1
090. 189745 | +00000 | .-00675 | +00185 | Hib42 -1
091. 189290 | .-00005 | .-00680 | +00180 | PauLaVie -1
092. 189025 | +00000 | .-00675 | +00185 | Jamescush -1
093. 188495 | .-00005 | .-00680 | +00180 | atro70 -1
094. 187365 | +00000 | .-00675 | +00185 | Jimborov -1
095. 185035 | .-00075 | .-00750 | +00110 | Nersul
096. 184035 | .-00005 | .-00680 | +00180 | Asandir
097. 183040 | +00000 | .-00675 | +00185 | Bspenc
098. 181540 | +00000 | .-00675 | +00185 | Decky
099. 179955 | +00000 | .-00675 | +00185 | o-rin
100. 179515 | +00000 | .-00675 | +00185 | StarMagician

101. 178775 | .-00010 | .-00685 | +00175 | blackosama
102. 178425 | +00000 | .-00675 | +00185 | urrad
103. 177515 | +00035 | .-00640 | +00220 | UncivilFire
104. 175820 | +00000 | .-00675 | +00185 | BAD-177
105. 171595 | +00000 | .-00675 | +00185 | 6hojrak
106. 170960 | +00765 | +00090 | +00950 | SamaelMo
107. 169550 | +00000 | .-00675 | +00185 | ThePhenomenon
108. 167895 | +00000 | .-00675 | +00185 | coldest
109. 166105 | +00130 | .-00545 | +00315 | myuhinny
110. 165195 | +00000 | .-00675 | +00185 | Leinado
111. 162180 | +00000 | .-00675 | +00185 | firefyte
112. 161270 | +00050 | .-00625 | +00235 | EXOk
113. 160140 | +00000 | .-00675 | +00185 | Nitoglycerin
114. 159485 | +00000 | .-00675 | +00185 | wildwechsel
115. 158365 | +01180 | +00505 | +01365 | Cyberdevil
116. 157100 | +00085 | .-00590 | +00270 | Shahid
117. 156740 | +00000 | .-00675 | +00185 | mgbt1211
118. 156150 | +00000 | .-00675 | +00185 | UndeadFighter
119. 154160 | +00000 | .-00675 | +00185 | orangecrix6
120. 153140 | +00000 | .-00675 | +00185 | guiguidarkblue
121. 152930 | +00375 | .-00300 | +00560 | teremaki
122. 151425 | +00000 | .-00675 | +00185 | Franceman
123. 151420 | +00000 | .-00675 | +00185 | Teddynotes
124. 151400 | +01180 | +00505 | +01365 | SLjimbolian +2
125. 150690 | +00160 | .-00515 | +00345 | kuma847
126. 150650 | +00000 | .-00675 | +00185 | waynerz99 -2
127. 149595 | +00000 | .-00675 | +00185 | Cannabo
128. 149570 | +00000 | .-00675 | +00185 | LegolaSS
129. 149490 | +00000 | .-00675 | +00185 | wojessee
130. 148920 | .-00005 | .-00680 | +00180 | LordOfTheShrooms
131. 147990 | +00010 | .-00665 | +00195 | Idiot-Finder
132. 147810 | +00005 | .-00670 | +00190 | Argathras
133. 145685 | +00000 | .-00675 | +00185 | bisoni
134. 145345 | +00025 | .-00650 | +00210 | Monkeycraft
135. 144800 | +01215 | +00540 | +01400 | zzuzu +4
136. 144705 | +00085 | .-00590 | +00270 | bukenken12 -1
137. 144250 | .-00005 | .-00680 | +00180 | Cg91 -1
138. 144145 | +00000 | .-00675 | +00185 | Bigbear90 -1
139. 143675 | +00000 | .-00675 | +00185 | InsaneZeroG -1
140. 142835 | +00000 | .-00675 | +00185 | JosefEliasson
141. 142740 | +00000 | .-00675 | +00185 | Kabuya
142. 141220 | +00000 | .-00675 | +00185 | VincentGrey
143. 140645 | +00000 | .-00675 | +00185 | ChronoNomad
144. 139050 | +00000 | .-00675 | +00185 | PyroDragon88
145. 138850 | +00000 | .-00675 | +00185 | rgray
146. 138480 | +00000 | .-00675 | +00185 | sbroughton
147. 137125 | +00050 | .-00625 | +00235 | davidpuralocura
148. 136595 | +00000 | .-00675 | +00185 | DepresiveNeko
149. 136545 | +00000 | .-00675 | +00185 | rhem180
150. 135465 | +00000 | .-00675 | +00185 | coolblondman

151. 134405 | +00000 | .-00675 | +00185 | Laala
152. 132975 | +00000 | .-00675 | +00185 | Chatteris
153. 132225 | +00000 | .-00675 | +00185 | TheDarkUltimate
154. 132205 | +00000 | .-00675 | +00185 | Corvidae
155. 131915 | +00000 | .-00675 | +00185 | twright4726
156. 131000 | +00000 | .-00675 | +00185 | BOGOtm
157. 129205 | +00000 | .-00675 | +00185 | fixit
158. 129195 | +00000 | .-00675 | +00185 | xx2650
159. 129030 | +00000 | .-00675 | +00185 | ackai
160. 126455 | +00000 | .-00675 | +00185 | unknown-factor
161. 125760 | +00000 | .-00675 | +00185 | RabidBunnyMan98
162. 125400 | +00000 | .-00675 | +00185 | Mxmts
163. 124100 | +00000 | .-00675 | +00185 | Waffilicious
164. 123795 | +00000 | .-00675 | +00185 | Sentio
165. 123490 | +00165 | .-00510 | +00350 | TonyBest100
166. 123145 | +00255 | .-00420 | +00440 | HexMagnificus +3
167. 123050 | +00000 | .-00675 | +00185 | Bandbe -1
168. 122915 | +00000 | .-00675 | +00185 | Gomes -1
169. 122905 | +00000 | .-00675 | +00185 | pzY-o -1
170. 122750 | +00000 | .-00675 | +00185 | duckyness
171. 121015 | +00000 | .-00675 | +00185 | ALFK11
172. 120530 | +00000 | .-00675 | +00185 | nidoking02
173. 120305 | +00000 | .-00675 | +00185 | PikaRobo
174. 120150 | +00000 | .-00675 | +00185 | DiMono
175. 120105 | +00000 | .-00675 | +00185 | Philip3477
176. 119585 | +00000 | .-00675 | +00185 | fa2mann
177. 119315 | +00000 | .-00675 | +00185 | blyndid
178. 118995 | +00000 | .-00675 | +00185 | sunsadow
179. 118895 | +00000 | .-00675 | +00185 | dragoneffect
180. 118740 | +00000 | .-00675 | +00185 | Blazee
181. 118335 | +00065 | .-00610 | +00250 | mstmar
182. 118000 | +00000 | .-00675 | +00185 | Celegon
183. 117680 | +00000 | .-00675 | +00185 | MegaGold
184. 116305 | +00000 | .-00675 | +00185 | CNGP
185. 116275 | +00000 | .-00675 | +00185 | BoogityBoogity
186. 116240 | +00160 | .-00515 | +00345 | destructiveduck
187. 116040 | +00000 | .-00675 | +00185 | The-Winged-Serpent
188. 115940 | +00000 | .-00675 | +00185 | JackofPojo
189. 115805 | +00000 | .-00675 | +00185 | Kalar
190. 115765 | +00000 | .-00675 | +00185 | Petrylu
191. 115590 | +00010 | .-00665 | +00195 | Slirun
192. 115305 | +00000 | .-00675 | +00185 | vlandeismilsoum2
193. 115015 | +00000 | .-00675 | +00185 | hmhmhm
194. 114805 | +00000 | .-00675 | +00185 | mistywisty77
195. 114590 | +00035 | .-00640 | +00220 | z017 +1
196. 114575 | +00000 | .-00675 | +00185 | pedrolmoura -1
197. 114045 | +00000 | .-00675 | +00185 | hatehatehate
198. 113510 | +00000 | .-00675 | +00185 | Kauvin
199. 112955 | +00000 | .-00675 | +00185 | NerdyBandit
200. 112620 | +00000 | .-00675 | +00185 | doctorghoti

Other Stats
New Medal Points: 675
Total Medal Point Gain: 33790
Medal Point Gain for Top 50: 11340
Top Topper: @Bobogoobo (+14)
Top Flopper: @waynerz99 (-2)
Top Gainers: @Bobogoobo (13860), @athomas5 (4785), @NeonSpider (2610)
Newcomers: (none)
Returners: (none)

At 5/12/18 05:20 PM, Bobogoobo wrote: VicariousE (currently 76th on the list) has a hacked score on Devilish Moto Trial (assuming it's not a bug with the game or something). Anyone care to investigate if he has any other obvious cheats?

By the way, the above game is a fun skill challenge type of game. I managed to get the top (legit) score :3

Yeah that's real frustrating when the top scores in some game are in no way possible to obtain no matter how good you are.

Giving a user a benefit of the doubt, it may have been earned in an earlier version of the game, but a lot of times when it looks cheated it probably is cheated.

Speaking of exactly that problem, what do you think about this game? https://www.newgrounds.com/portal/view/648430

One of the medals says you have to hack the score to get the medal and it doesn't seem reasonably possible to obtain through normal means unless there's a secret or a glitch in the game which immediately awards such score or something. Even author comments seems the author is saying yes you'd actually have to cheat the highscore to get that medal.

What do you think? Did those people who have the medal find some secret or glitch in the game that somehow triggers medal unlock, or did they do as the game author claims and as medal description states and literally cheat a highscore (by using some outside program) to get it?

And I've also seen and played games that have a maximum possible score you can ever earn in the game, and yet there will be people with scores above that.

And then on the flipside I've seen the occasionally extremely rare game with highscores so broken that it just gives everyone the max highscore who had played the game or at least gotten far enough in it, so why even bother having highscores in such a game?

https://www.newgrounds.com/portal/view/708554 Here is a great example of that. Under Punch force, not Hits. Clearly Jaxfirebus appears to have cheated on hits, but everyone who played the game and got either of the top two medals in-game will have the maxed highscore in punch force, which is why they're all that maxed number.

At 5/13/18 04:16 AM, NeonSpider wrote: https://www.newgrounds.com/portal/view/648430

One of the medals says you have to hack the score to get the medal and it doesn't seem reasonably possible to obtain through normal means unless there's a secret or a glitch in the game

@Optimos - any comment on this case?

At 5/13/18 06:38 AM, HerbieG wrote:

At 5/13/18 04:16 AM, NeonSpider wrote: https://www.newgrounds.com/portal/view/648430

One of the medals says you have to hack the score to get the medal and it doesn't seem reasonably possible to obtain through normal means unless there's a secret or a glitch in the game

@Optimos - any comment on this case?

I asked @RedN how he had unlocked it and followed his instructions, basically.

At 5/13/18 08:06 AM, Optimos wrote:

At 5/13/18 06:38 AM, HerbieG wrote:

At 5/13/18 04:16 AM, NeonSpider wrote:

I asked @RedN how he had unlocked it and followed his instructions, basically.

So I assume that it requires using some coding skills on the game?

At 5/13/18 08:16 AM, HerbieG wrote:

At 5/13/18 08:06 AM, Optimos wrote:

At 5/13/18 06:38 AM, HerbieG wrote:

At 5/13/18 04:16 AM, NeonSpider wrote:

I asked @RedN how he had unlocked it and followed his instructions, basically.

So I assume that it requires using some coding skills on the game?

Some ActionScript programming (mostly low level stuff about the ActionScript virtual machine), and some common sense.

Not sure if it's fair with everyone, a game shouldn't require programming/computer engineering skills, but that's probably what the game author expects.

That is fine for me. The medal shouldn't exist in the first place then. It was solved in the intended way. This is no unfair move.

At 5/13/18 10:41 AM, PhantasyReal wrote: That is fine for me. The medal shouldn't exist in the first place then. It was solved in the intended way. This is no unfair move.

I think you're right in both cases. This looks much like the old case of a medal in one of the Floorsland games.

By the way, recently the case of one of the scores in the Asterash game was brought here, I asked akidu502 about it and he sent me a link to his video, so we can decide if it is legit or not.

At 5/13/18 09:54 AM, RedN wrote:

At 5/13/18 08:16 AM, HerbieG wrote:

At 5/13/18 08:06 AM, Optimos wrote:

At 5/13/18 06:38 AM, HerbieG wrote:

At 5/13/18 04:16 AM, NeonSpider wrote:

I asked @RedN how he had unlocked it and followed his instructions, basically.

So I assume that it requires using some coding skills on the game?

Some ActionScript programming (mostly low level stuff about the ActionScript virtual machine), and some common sense.

Not sure if it's fair with everyone, a game shouldn't require programming/computer engineering skills, but that's probably what the game author expects.

So it was cheated and I was right. And please I doubt you did any programming or coding (and computer engineering is an entirely different thing altogether that has zero to do with any of this) to make this happen. It is well-known there are ready-made tools such as the well-known Cheat Engine for Windows that'll let you do stuff like manipulate scores and variables within web games. You just used something like that.

It seems they're allowing a pass on this one instance, while removing the medal, since it seems that was the game author's intent, but don't pretend you used coding skills for this. You did the equivalent of using a Game Genie while playing a NES game, albeit maybe without the pre-made codes given to you so some trial-and-error to find what you needed.

At 5/13/18 11:03 AM, HerbieG wrote: By the way, recently the case of one of the scores in the Asterash game was brought here, I asked akidu502 about it and he sent me a link to his video, so we can decide if it is legit or not.

Well, the video looks legit, but the score earned in video is 1,501,250. The score in the high scores is 3,012,300. I'm not saying he couldn't have done that because it does seem like maybe he just lost on purpose at the end there, but that's still more than twice the score earned in video.

It is likely his score is legit because he does seem like he's pretty good at the game, as well as the game doesn't seem to lag up as much for him as it does for most (but using a beefier computer to play a game is allowed), so it's feasible he may have done it. But the video doesn't prove it.

But what doesn't make sense to me is why he doesn't have more medals from other games if he's that good at SHMUPs. There are lots of SHMUPs with medals on Newgrounds, so presumably he should have full medals in many of those. It's extremely unusual for someone to be that good and yet just only play that one game ever.

I would lean on leave his score alone and give benefit of the doubt on this one, even though like I said the video is not proof of his 3,012,300 score.

At 5/13/18 03:49 AM, PhantasyReal wrote: Rank | Medal Points | Difference | Gain vs. New Medals | Gain vs. Leader | Username | Change
041. 269640 | +00105 | .-00570 | +00290 | DoctorStrongbad

A small gain of 105 points this update. Way better than losing medal points.

At 5/13/18 08:16 PM, NeonSpider wrote:

At 5/13/18 09:54 AM, RedN wrote:

At 5/13/18 08:16 AM, HerbieG wrote:

At 5/13/18 08:06 AM, Optimos wrote:

At 5/13/18 06:38 AM, HerbieG wrote:

At 5/13/18 04:16 AM, NeonSpider wrote:

I asked @RedN how he had unlocked it and followed his instructions, basically.

So I assume that it requires using some coding skills on the game?

Some ActionScript programming (mostly low level stuff about the ActionScript virtual machine), and some common sense.

Not sure if it's fair with everyone, a game shouldn't require programming/computer engineering skills, but that's probably what the game author expects.

So it was cheated and I was right. And please I doubt you did any programming or coding (and computer engineering is an entirely different thing altogether that has zero to do with any of this) to make this happen. It is well-known there are ready-made tools such as the well-known Cheat Engine for Windows that'll let you do stuff like manipulate scores and variables within web games. You just used something like that.

It seems they're allowing a pass on this one instance, while removing the medal, since it seems that was the game author's intent, but don't pretend you used coding skills for this. You did the equivalent of using a Game Genie while playing a NES game, albeit maybe without the pre-made codes given to you so some trial-and-error to find what you needed.

I didn't edit a value using a "well known" tool, I wrote a patch that would unlock the medal (changing the AVM instructions that check the medal condition, basically, my patch changes a conditionnal statement to make it evaluate to true), then I injected my code in the memory of the browser process before the JIT compiler would compile the targeted bytecode (this can be done just with the Windows API, or any memory scanner, or even a hex editor like HxD), if you want my code, I'll send it to you.

Also, computer engineering is my area of study, and we call the process of understanding how a particular program works in order to be able to modify it "Reverse Engineering", and this is what I did (I'm not sure what you mean by "computer engineering is an entirely different thing altogether that has zero to do with any of this").

I wouldn't mind having that medal removed from my profile, My main interest is computers, and mostly computer security, when I played the game, it seemed like a challenge for me.

At 5/14/18 12:43 PM, RedN wrote: I didn't edit a value using a "well known" tool, I wrote a patch that would unlock the medal (changing the AVM instructions that check the medal condition, basically, my patch changes a conditionnal statement to make it evaluate to true), then I injected my code in the memory of the browser process before the JIT compiler would compile the targeted bytecode (this can be done just with the Windows API, or any memory scanner, or even a hex editor like HxD), if you want my code, I'll send it to you.

So you basically did things the hard way when there was a much easier way? You know that's called reinventing the wheel, right? And I assume you also know they say not to do that unless you have a good reason for it. It's a very basic thing they will tell you in any computer programming or software engineering class. Though in this case I am forced to conclude your reason is it was a learning experience, which is fine. But yeah anybody else who was going to cheat would just have used one of the many pre-existing tools that let you do exactly that. So do forgive me for wrongly guessing you considered it "leet" knowledge to use pre-made tools to cheat games, as it's a very common attitude among script kiddies, but it seems in this case you actually did make your own tool, presumably for learning purposes.

Also, computer engineering is my area of study, and we call the process of understanding how a particular program works in order to be able to modify it "Reverse Engineering", and this is what I did (I'm not sure what you mean by "computer engineering is an entirely different thing altogether that has zero to do with any of this").

Yes I'm well aware of what reverse engineering is. I've tried my hand at it before. I've used hex editors, disassembled software, built files up according to nothing but the file format specification, poked around, etc... But computer engineering is more where the software meets the hardware and a mixed discipline of low-level programming specifically at a device driver or operating system kernel level combined with enough electrical engineering knowledge to make it work on the hardware side as well, for example designing the actual circuit boards, chips, or other pieces of hardware, and also programming them. They may teach you about reverse engineering in some of your classes, but reverse engineering is not the same as computer engineering, which is not the same as software engineering. Just as long as you're not confusing computer engineering and software engineering, we're cool.

I wouldn't mind having that medal removed from my profile, My main interest is computers, and mostly computer security, when I played the game, it seemed like a challenge for me.

It looks like it's already been removed. And now that you know how to inject code into a running Flash game, there is no further challenge in doing that again.

I apologize if I came off a bit snippy but I'm sure you understand why considering script kiddies greatly outnumber anyone with actual computer knowledge on the Internet, and mistakenly think using pre-made tools without actual understanding is "leet". Plus the fact like I said almost anyone else would have just done it that way, if they were going to cheat.

But really people shouldn't cheat the medals, and medals which require cheating shouldn't exist.

At 5/14/18 02:24 PM, NeonSpider wrote:

At 5/14/18 12:43 PM, RedN wrote:

But computer engineering is more where the software meets the hardware and a mixed discipline of low-level programming specifically at a device driver or operating system kernel level combined with enough electrical engineering knowledge to make it work on the hardware side as well, for example designing the actual circuit boards, chips, or other pieces of hardware, and also programming them.

You're right, I was referring to reverse engineering, not computer engineering.

And now that you know how to inject code into a running Flash game, there is no further challenge in doing that again.

It's been three or four years since I unlocked that medal.

But really people shouldn't cheat the medals, and medals which require cheating shouldn't exist.

Yes, I agree with that.

At 5/14/18 03:43 PM, RedN wrote:

At 5/14/18 02:24 PM, NeonSpider wrote: But really people shouldn't cheat the medals, and medals which require cheating shouldn't exist.

Yes, I agree with that.

Yep. Generally speaking, if one is using an outside program (other than a web browser, whatever plugin is needed if applicable for example Flash plugin, the OS itself, and so on) that tends to be frowned on.

There are lots of things which are allowed, however. For example one may use a worse and laggier computer or setup or browser or a better beefier computer or setup or browser to play the games and sometimes it'll make a difference. One may use a browser of their choice, and lots of times that makes a difference. Game bugs may be used or exploited as long as one is not using an external program to do so.

This gives a lot of allowed options, for example tabbing to find items, tabbing to a control then holding spacebar instead of rapid clicking, taking advantage of anything on the right-click menu in Flash games, and even playing within the game's rules to glitch it all are allowed.

For an extremely complex example, take a look at the fastest way to get through Super Mario Bros. 3. It's a clever in-game glitch which takes advantage of certain internal numbers as well as their relation to everything else such that essentially an instruction gets overwritten with a jump immediately go to the win screen, if done right. If you're not familiar with it I greatly advise to look it up on youtube and watch as it's right up your alley. And this can be done without using any outside tools, so no Game Genies or anything just straight up your NES, the Super Mario Bros. 3 cartridge, knowledge of how to glitch it in this way, and a standard controller, go for it.

Anything like that, but in a Newgrounds game would be allowed as far as obtaining medals goes.

Also anything physical (not in software) tends to be allowed, for example if it helps you to literally tape down a key on your keyboard or put a weight or a clip on your keyboard to hold some key down for an extended period, that would be allowed. Or if you need to draw on your monitor or put little tapes on it, as would be the case for Extreme Gardening if you wanted all medals in that. Those sorts of things would be allowed.

Using walkthroughs of games is also allowed so if someone has put a walkthrough on youtube or some website, have fun using that if you want.

Whereas glitching a game doesn't count as beating that game, but for medal collection purposes it is allowed, provided it is exclusively an in-game glitch not using external tools to pull it off.

I have some experience in programming and plenty of experience with Flash games, yet I had no idea you could inject code into a running game. I also didn't know that there were Game Genie-esque tools available, since I've never looked for one. I did try to unlock that that medal but couldn't figure out a way to do it. Since it's not unlocked through activities within the game, I agree with its removal.

I have a question about a potential gray area in some games. Especially in clicker games, sometimes you can use Tab to select whatever button needs to be clicked repeatedly and hold down the space bar to make it act as if it were being clicked rapidly. Most games either disable this or aren't written in a way that allows it, but I've found a couple recently where it was possible and made it much easier (read: saves me from boredom and carpal tunnel syndrome) to complete the game. Would this be considered cheating, or not, since the game allows it and anyone can do it? (I forgot about the Tab trick for a while, but was reminded in the comments of some selfdefiant games. My goodness did it make those games go a lot faster, other than using the walkthrough.)

At 5/15/18 01:01 AM, Bobogoobo wrote: I have some experience in programming and plenty of experience with Flash games, yet I had no idea you could inject code into a running game. I also didn't know that there were Game Genie-esque tools available, since I've never looked for one. I did try to unlock that that medal but couldn't figure out a way to do it. Since it's not unlocked through activities within the game, I agree with its removal.

I have a question about a potential gray area in some games. Especially in clicker games, sometimes you can use Tab to select whatever button needs to be clicked repeatedly and hold down the space bar to make it act as if it were being clicked rapidly. Most games either disable this or aren't written in a way that allows it, but I've found a couple recently where it was possible and made it much easier (read: saves me from boredom and carpal tunnel syndrome) to complete the game. Would this be considered cheating, or not, since the game allows it and anyone can do it? (I forgot about the Tab trick for a while, but was reminded in the comments of some selfdefiant games. My goodness did it make those games go a lot faster, other than using the walkthrough.)

Perfectly allowed. I even specifically mentioned that exact trick. The game lets you do it? (Even if due to programmer laziness/inexperience/sloppiness) Then it's allowed.

I know about stuff like Cheat Engine not because I've used them but because if you've been playing games for a long time you're bound to run into lots of cheaters and they tend to use stuff like that, and even brag about having used those sorts of programs for cheating at games. Ever see high scores that you can almost guarantee were cheated? They probably just fired up Cheat Engine, manipulated some in-game variables, and cheated those high scores. Not even that hard to do if someone wanted to do that.

I mean basically it's going to be impossible to prevent all cheating unless you're playing games in person all in the same room on the same machine and can watch what everyone is doing, like oldschool consoles or arcade cabinets. Anything played over the Internet is very susceptible to cheating and companies spend good money trying to implement anti-cheat detection but it's a cat-and-mouse game and it's not really that hard to circumvent if someone was so determined.

I don't see a point in cheating games and I've written about this before in another thread. If you want to prove your computer skills, you wouldn't be cheating at games you would be writing software or finding/fixing exploits in software or websites or that sort of thing. Depending if you were black hat or white hat you might be the one writing viruses and trying to break into networks or you might be the one trying to write antivirus software and defend networks. And if you want to prove your gaming skills, you also wouldn't cheat at games.

It leaves only the lamers who cheat at games, really. People who aren't good enough at games to play them legitimately, but also don't have any real computer skills either.

At 5/15/18 01:01 AM, Bobogoobo wrote: I have a question about a potential gray area in some games. Especially in clicker games, sometimes you can use Tab to select whatever button needs to be clicked repeatedly and hold down the space bar to make it act as if it were being clicked rapidly. Most games either disable this or aren't written in a way that allows it, but I've found a couple recently where it was possible and made it much easier (read: saves me from boredom and carpal tunnel syndrome) to complete the game. Would this be considered cheating, or not, since the game allows it and anyone can do it?

I would never consider this cheating.

I was active on multiple pages with multiple achievement systems and hunters. Most communities allow:
- bugs, exploits, other programming errors triggered ingame (because it could happen accidentally as well)
- .... triggered in the system necessary for playing the game (right click menu, emulation software and so on)
- developers intent (e.g. third party software if mandatory, trainer in floorsland, lower ranked unlocks of Tales of Maj'Eyal with the website, ingame cheatcodes)
- playing yourself (e.g. virtual keyboard, 2nd mouse for clicker games and so on)
- time/date keeping difficulty (e.g. changing the time or date in the OS to unlock specific achievements will not change the difficulty and people have far better things to do on e.g. Christmas or Easter)

Most communities forbid:
- third party software not intended by the developer (e.g. trainer, bots, cheat engine)
- bugs, exploit, other programming errors in multiplayer games
- time/date changing difficulty (e.g. switching the time ahead to collect more resources in an idle game because idling is a basic part of the game)
- things against Terms of Service / Rules

115. 158365 | +01180 | +00505 | +01365 | Cyberdevil

Decent gains this week. :) Thanks for the update PhantasyReal!

Also plenty of interesting reading regarding hacked games above.

I will also add one other thing I thought of which would be allowed, or at least I can't see why it wouldn't be.

If you want to write a program to help you do some math in relation to some particular game, but you do not attach that program to the game or directly interact with the game with it in any way, that should be allowed because it's no different from say using a physical calculator or getting pen and paper and working it all out tediously that way, except it's maybe faster.

And most people would probably be fine with you taking pen and paper and doing some math on it to figure something out for a game.

In other words if your program does not directly interact with the game in any way.

Thanks, I feel better about some things that originally felt questionable to me.

I'll be logging a gain of 4k-5k this week. It's not 10k, but it's still nothing to sneeze at. In two months I've gained almost 100k medal points and reached my short-term goals, so I'm definitely satisfied with my progress. I'll still keep working on it of course. It'll take forever to reach that 800k :P

Rank | Medal Points | Difference | Gain vs. New Medals | Gain vs. Leader | Username | Change
001. 766675 | +0000 | .-1155 | ===== | Nijsse
002. 707750 | +0075 | .-1080 | +0075 | PhantasyReal
003. 619010 | +1155 | +0000 | +1155 | HerbieG
004. 568175 | +0695 | .-0460 | +0695 | Ray80
005. 560785 | +0000 | .-1155 | +0000 | PulseLane
006. 558405 | +5025 | +3870 | +5025 | NeonSpider
007. 524540 | +0200 | .-0955 | +0200 | Amereep
008. 520140 | +0790 | .-0365 | +0790 | reflectionist
009. 518175 | +0350 | .-0805 | +0350 | EdyKel
010. 504865 | +0150 | .-1005 | +0150 | Optimos
011. 493015 | +0610 | .-0545 | +0610 | Glamdrung
012. 465015 | +0000 | .-1155 | +0000 | Slingerz
013. 430840 | +0000 | .-1155 | +0000 | cyberdemonio
014. 394180 | +0050 | .-1105 | +0050 | ionrayner
015. 388415 | +0855 | .-0300 | +0855 | Plasmarift +1
016. 387775 | +0000 | .-1155 | +0000 | Fooliolo -1
017. 379340 | +0540 | .-0615 | +0540 | BADGIRLQC
018. 364695 | +0000 | .-1155 | +0000 | Mascetti
019. 361635 | +0000 | .-1155 | +0000 | yound
020. 355035 | +0000 | .-1155 | +0000 | Gooch
021. 354635 | +0000 | .-1155 | +0000 | Knuckstrike
022. 348955 | +0000 | .-1155 | +0000 | VJF
023. 347400 | +0000 | .-1155 | +0000 | shannon821
024. 341910 | +0000 | .-1155 | +0000 | SFS1313
025. 341705 | +2305 | +1150 | +2305 | athomas5
026. 328135 | +0000 | .-1155 | +0000 | TheMircster
027. 327025 | +0000 | .-1155 | +0000 | RyoSangnoir
028. 324180 | +0160 | .-0995 | +0160 | Mitrim
029. 307385 | +0000 | .-1155 | +0000 | BreakingBad
030. 301080 | +0000 | .-1155 | +0000 | Shantom
031. 300010 | +0455 | .-0700 | +0455 | beavinator
032. 299360 | +0000 | .-1155 | +0000 | Rubyvex
033. 297675 | +0000 | .-1155 | +0000 | kirkdewinter
034. 293500 | +0000 | .-1155 | +0000 | queenofbabes
035. 292125 | +0000 | .-1155 | +0000 | SubNoctem
036. 288850 | +0000 | .-1155 | +0000 | Black1998
037. 288585 | +0060 | .-1095 | +0060 | KamenRiderStick
038. 288205 | +0000 | .-1155 | +0000 | classicmaster
039. 284960 | +0360 | .-0795 | +0360 | Fioresa
040. 284485 | +0000 | .-1155 | +0000 | akajackfrost
041. 269735 | +0095 | .-1060 | +0095 | DoctorStrongbad
042. 259510 | +0175 | .-0980 | +0175 | Riveet099
043. 258670 | +0535 | .-0620 | +0535 | bivn123456789
044. 253285 | +0290 | .-0865 | +0290 | eunit5130
045. 252620 | +0000 | .-1155 | +0000 | nosesocks
046. 251595 | +0000 | .-1155 | +0000 | crankbait
047. 250550 | +0510 | .-0645 | +0510 | CrackerJack30
048. 250005 | +0000 | .-1155 | +0000 | jt263
049. 247240 | +0000 | .-1155 | +0000 | norat374
050. 245805 | +1465 | +0310 | +1465 | Riccowed +1

051. 245345 | +0005 | .-1150 | +0005 | supersavage -1
052. 243640 | +0100 | .-1055 | +0100 | darkmatt93
053. 242725 | +0000 | .-1155 | +0000 | RHawk
054. 242145 | +0405 | .-0750 | +0405 | terebella12
055. 241880 | +1050 | .-0105 | +1050 | MI4-REAL-2001
056. 241415 | +0650 | .-0505 | +0650 | Big-Boss
057. 241050 | +1345 | +0190 | +1345 | Rsharp723894
058. 239190 | +0000 | .-1155 | +0000 | Yozh
059. 237910 | +0060 | .-1095 | +0060 | RedN
060. 237840 | +0160 | .-0995 | +0160 | chaosbot
061. 236165 | +0150 | .-1005 | +0150 | DrenZ
062. 233905 | +0000 | .-1155 | +0000 | Definitiv
063. 230395 | +0000 | .-1155 | +0000 | DDK123
064. 227785 | +0000 | .-1155 | +0000 | paul09
065. 226895 | +0000 | .-1155 | +0000 | darkfg
066. 224490 | +0000 | .-1155 | +0000 | Yatsufusa
067. 221805 | +0000 | .-1155 | +0000 | silverkitty23
068. 219890 | +0000 | .-1155 | +0000 | someaveragechap
069. 218910 | +0000 | .-1155 | +0000 | Bombenhagel
070. 218165 | +0000 | .-1155 | +0000 | BSEfcukde
071. 215090 | +0000 | .-1155 | +0000 | Wia88
072. 214495 | +0160 | .-0995 | +0160 | Mace13
073. 213255 | +3960 | +2805 | +3960 | Righttime +1
074. 210755 | +0000 | .-1155 | +0000 | EventHorizon -1
075. 209215 | +0020 | .-1135 | +0020 | priscillawing
076. 205250 | +6250 | +5095 | +6250 | Bobogoobo +4
077. 204775 | +0300 | .-0855 | +0300 | VicariousE -1
078. 203455 | +0000 | .-1155 | +0000 | MaitreVaati -1
079. 202435 | +0160 | .-0995 | +0160 | BBaaTTuuHHaaNN -1
080. 201070 | +0000 | .-1155 | +0000 | Sizzlebuzz -1
081. 195075 | +0000 | .-1155 | +0000 | IngeniousCheese
082. 194030 | +0000 | .-1155 | +0000 | RamUrMother
083. 192645 | +0000 | .-1155 | +0000 | krachiii
084. 192125 | +0000 | .-1155 | +0000 | Jimmy515
085. 191500 | +0000 | .-1155 | +0000 | bortpoo
086. 190830 | +0000 | .-1155 | +0000 | tgras
087. 190730 | +0000 | .-1155 | +0000 | AlanDee
088. 190195 | +0000 | .-1155 | +0000 | GunslingerAK
089. 190095 | +0000 | .-1155 | +0000 | gamejunkie
090. 189745 | +0000 | .-1155 | +0000 | Hib42
091. 189660 | +0370 | .-0785 | +0370 | PauLaVie
092. 189025 | +0000 | .-1155 | +0000 | Jamescush
093. 188495 | +0000 | .-1155 | +0000 | atro70
094. 187415 | +0050 | .-1105 | +0050 | Jimborov
095. 185490 | +0455 | .-0700 | +0455 | Nersul
096. 184035 | +0000 | .-1155 | +0000 | Asandir
097. 183040 | +0000 | .-1155 | +0000 | Bspenc
098. 181540 | +0000 | .-1155 | +0000 | Decky
099. 179955 | +0000 | .-1155 | +0000 | o-rin
100. 179675 | +0160 | .-0995 | +0160 | StarMagician

101. 178775 | +0000 | .-1155 | +0000 | blackosama
102. 178425 | +0000 | .-1155 | +0000 | urrad
103. 177655 | +0140 | .-1015 | +0140 | UncivilFire
104. 176225 | +0405 | .-0750 | +0405 | BAD-177
105. 171595 | +0000 | .-1155 | +0000 | 6hojrak
106. 171495 | +0535 | .-0620 | +0535 | SamaelMo
107. 169550 | +0000 | .-1155 | +0000 | ThePhenomenon
108. 167895 | +0000 | .-1155 | +0000 | coldest
109. 166395 | +0290 | .-0865 | +0290 | myuhinny
110. 165195 | +0000 | .-1155 | +0000 | Leinado
111. 162180 | +0000 | .-1155 | +0000 | firefyte
112. 161270 | +0000 | .-1155 | +0000 | EXOk
113. 160140 | +0000 | .-1155 | +0000 | Nitoglycerin
114. 159485 | +0000 | .-1155 | +0000 | wildwechsel
115. 158580 | +0215 | .-0940 | +0215 | Cyberdevil
116. 157355 | +0255 | .-0900 | +0255 | Shahid
117. 156740 | +0000 | .-1155 | +0000 | mgbt1211
118. 156150 | +0000 | .-1155 | +0000 | UndeadFighter
119. 154160 | +0000 | .-1155 | +0000 | orangecrix6
120. 153140 | +0000 | .-1155 | +0000 | guiguidarkblue
121. 153115 | +0185 | .-0970 | +0185 | teremaki
122. 152045 | +0645 | .-0510 | +0645 | SLjimbolian +2
123. 151830 | +0405 | .-0750 | +0405 | Franceman -1
124. 151420 | +0000 | .-1155 | +0000 | Teddynotes -1
125. 151045 | +0355 | .-0800 | +0355 | kuma847
126. 150650 | +0000 | .-1155 | +0000 | waynerz99
127. 150325 | +0755 | .-0400 | +0755 | LegolaSS +1
128. 149595 | +0000 | .-1155 | +0000 | Cannabo -1
129. 149490 | +0000 | .-1155 | +0000 | wojessee
130. 148920 | +0000 | .-1155 | +0000 | LordOfTheShrooms
131. 147990 | +0000 | .-1155 | +0000 | Idiot-Finder
132. 147810 | +0000 | .-1155 | +0000 | Argathras
133. 146420 | +1075 | .-0080 | +1075 | Monkeycraft +1
134. 145965 | +1165 | +0010 | +1165 | zzuzu +1
135. 145735 | +1030 | .-0125 | +1030 | bukenken12 +1
136. 145685 | +0000 | .-1155 | +0000 | bisoni -3
137. 144250 | +0000 | .-1155 | +0000 | Cg91
138. 144150 | +0005 | .-1150 | +0005 | Bigbear90
139. 143675 | +0000 | .-1155 | +0000 | InsaneZeroG
140. 142995 | +0160 | .-0995 | +0160 | JosefEliasson
141. 142740 | +0000 | .-1155 | +0000 | Kabuya
142. 141220 | +0000 | .-1155 | +0000 | VincentGrey
143. 140645 | +0000 | .-1155 | +0000 | ChronoNomad
144. 139050 | +0000 | .-1155 | +0000 | PyroDragon88
145. 138850 | +0000 | .-1155 | +0000 | rgray
146. 138480 | +0000 | .-1155 | +0000 | sbroughton
147. 137625 | +0500 | .-0655 | +0500 | davidpuralocura
148. 136645 | +0100 | .-1055 | +0100 | rhem180 +1
149. 136595 | +0000 | .-1155 | +0000 | DepresiveNeko -1
150. 135465 | +0000 | .-1155 | +0000 | coolblondman

151. 134405 | +0000 | .-1155 | +0000 | Laala
152. 132975 | +0000 | .-1155 | +0000 | Chatteris
153. 132225 | +0000 | .-1155 | +0000 | TheDarkUltimate
154. 132205 | +0000 | .-1155 | +0000 | Corvidae
155. 131915 | +0000 | .-1155 | +0000 | twright4726
156. 131000 | +0000 | .-1155 | +0000 | BOGOtm
157. 129365 | +0160 | .-0995 | +0160 | fixit
158. 129195 | +0000 | .-1155 | +0000 | xx2650
159. 129030 | +0000 | .-1155 | +0000 | ackai
160. 126455 | +0000 | .-1155 | +0000 | unknown-factor
161. 125760 | +0000 | .-1155 | +0000 | RabidBunnyMan98
162. 125400 | +0000 | .-1155 | +0000 | Mxmts
163. 124100 | +0000 | .-1155 | +0000 | Waffilicious
164. 124020 | +0875 | .-0280 | +0875 | HexMagnificus +2
165. 123795 | +0000 | .-1155 | +0000 | Sentio -1
166. 123490 | +0000 | .-1155 | +0000 | TonyBest100 -1
167. 123050 | +0000 | .-1155 | +0000 | Bandbe
168. 122915 | +0000 | .-1155 | +0000 | Gomes
169. 122905 | +0000 | .-1155 | +0000 | pzY-o
170. 122750 | +0000 | .-1155 | +0000 | duckyness
171. 121015 | +0000 | .-1155 | +0000 | ALFK11
172. 120530 | +0000 | .-1155 | +0000 | nidoking02
173. 120305 | +0000 | .-1155 | +0000 | PikaRobo
174. 120150 | +0000 | .-1155 | +0000 | DiMono
175. 120105 | +0000 | .-1155 | +0000 | Philip3477
176. 119585 | +0000 | .-1155 | +0000 | fa2mann
177. 119315 | +0000 | .-1155 | +0000 | blyndid
178. 118995 | +0000 | .-1155 | +0000 | sunsadow
179. 118895 | +0000 | .-1155 | +0000 | dragoneffect
180. 118740 | +0000 | .-1155 | +0000 | Blazee
181. 118335 | +0000 | .-1155 | +0000 | mstmar
182. 118000 | +0000 | .-1155 | +0000 | Celegon
183. 117830 | +0150 | .-1005 | +0150 | MegaGold
184. 116645 | +0405 | .-0750 | +0405 | destructiveduck +2
185. 116305 | +0000 | .-1155 | +0000 | CNGP -1
186. 116275 | +0000 | .-1155 | +0000 | BoogityBoogity -1
187. 116040 | +0000 | .-1155 | +0000 | The-Winged-Serpent
188. 115940 | +0000 | .-1155 | +0000 | JackofPojo
189. 115805 | +0000 | .-1155 | +0000 | Kalar
190. 115765 | +0000 | .-1155 | +0000 | Petrylu
191. 115590 | +0000 | .-1155 | +0000 | Slirun
192. 115305 | +0000 | .-1155 | +0000 | vlandeismilsoum2
193. 115015 | +0000 | .-1155 | +0000 | hmhmhm
194. 114805 | +0000 | .-1155 | +0000 | mistywisty77
195. 114590 | +0000 | .-1155 | +0000 | z017
196. 114575 | +0000 | .-1155 | +0000 | pedrolmoura
197. 114045 | +0000 | .-1155 | +0000 | hatehatehate
198. 113510 | +0000 | .-1155 | +0000 | Kauvin
199. 112955 | +0000 | .-1155 | +0000 | NerdyBandit
200. 112620 | +0000 | .-1155 | +0000 | doctorghoti

Other Stats
New Medal Points: 1155
Total Medal Point Gain: 42525
Medal Point Gain for Top 50: 16905
Top Topper: @Bobogoobo (+4)
Top Flopper: @bisoni (-3)
Top Gainers: @Bobogoobo (6250), @NeonSpider (5025), @Righttime (3960)
Newcomers: (none)
Returners: (none)

115. 158580 | +0215 | .-0940 | +0215 | Cyberdevil

A few new at least... thanks for the update PhantasyReal!

At 5/19/18 05:32 PM, PhantasyReal wrote: 050. 245805 | +1465 | +0310 | +1465 | Riccowed +1

Top 50 and now on the first page! Wow.