At 12/3/08 10:06 PM, nal1200 wrote:

At 12/3/08 05:48 PM, Hades0013 wrote: The idea itself is excellent, but it would still mean that only the prominent authors would get nominated. People will rarely vote on the songs of less known authors, which means they won't ever get the chance to be featured. Well, that's just my view.

No matter which method you use, new artists are going to have a hard time, but this method would make it much fairer, despite not necessarily 'benefiting' newer artists.

Even then, people should be limited in their nominations.
As in, only one nomination per week. Otherwise you'll get people nominating their own songs over and over again.

Even then, people should be limited in their nominations.
As in, only one nomination per week. Otherwise you'll get people nominating their own songs over and over again.

Very true =). Then it would actually be a true amount of people rather then just 20 people who voted like 5 times each making people think it was 100 people.

Should we contact mods about this? =O.

At 12/4/08 12:54 AM, HalcyonicFalconX wrote: Even then, people should be limited in their nominations.
As in, only one nomination per week. Otherwise you'll get people nominating their own songs over and over again.

As I mentioned earlier....

At 12/3/08 05:45 PM, nal1200 wrote: If each person got 1 nomination per week, we could easily see which songs are being focused on the most (assuming most people work nominate their own) by way of who's song got the most nominations.

I really see no negative sides to this proposal, other than the fact that it would require change. It sounds plausible and completely functional.

At 12/3/08 05:45 PM, nal1200 wrote:

At 12/3/08 02:24 PM, F-777 wrote: I wish there was a voting system like people could vote 0-5 but they could also vote "Vote for this submission to get top 5?" and then the the 5 most voted get top 5 that way Ng users could actually get songs they like up there and there would be no way for 0-bombers to ruin you chance =).

That's actually a pretty damn good idea.

It never occurred to me, but perhaps a nomination system would fare more favorably than a voting system.

If each person got 1 nomination per week, we could easily see which songs are being focused on the most (assuming most people work nominate their own) by way of who's song got the most nominations.

This would abandon the rating system, and rightfully so, as currently The BEST of the WEEK is not a representation of which songs are the best submissions of the those submitted this week, but rather a culmination of which songs survived the terror that is rampant democracy.

With a nomination system, there is no negativity and more importantly a more fair representation of the public voting pool.

DISCUSS!

Here's how I would have it:

1) Tracks that make Weekly Best were submitted in the past week and received the most nominations between then and midnight (NG Time) on Wednesday.

Sounds good to me.

2) Users get five nominations per week, cannot nominate their own tracks, and cannot nominate a track multiple times

I also would prefer multiple nominations, perhaps 5, to only one - users would only be able to nominate a track once, but wouldn't have to choose between two gems submitted in the same week.

3) Nominations are not publicly viewable, they're hidden.

Suggesting this one. Eliminates competition a bit further, and encourages users to nominate based on the track, rather than previous nominations.

4) In the case of a tie, the order is determined the current way.

I'm suggesting this one as well. If each user gets 5 nominations, ties should be uncommon, but in the case this happens, the current system should be a lot fairer in my opinion - nobody knows that the tracks are tied, so zero-voting is useless.

5) The current rating system (instead of being abandoned) will only be used to determine genrelists.

Unless there's a better way? Nominations doesn't seem appropriate here.

Also, unless we think of a solution, someone who joined the site yesterday would have the same nominating power as, say, a signed producer, which doesn't make sense to me. :\ Would it directly follow voting power, would it work differently, or is this unnecessary?

That's my view on this all. (As for All-Time Top 30, I'd like to suggest the number of people with the track on their favorites list being the criteria, with score determining ties - it may result in a rather static list, but the way I see it, that's what it was intended to be in the first place, not to showcase new talent - it's All-Time best after all.)

that's all fine and good but this system would be breakable on so many angles it's remotely funny.

1. Proxy users = insta win all the time.
2. Crews would form to nominate each other, effectively screwing over anybody else.
3. This system only takes into consideration people already established and ensures that those who aren't established will never see the light of day, because let's face it, how many of you are going through the portal listening to tracks and trying to find the gems? I mean, really.
4. Strong biasm on genres. To say there was no biasm in the first place would be a lie, but suddenly i'm not going to be seeing anything that's not Trance/Techno/Dance up there.

Am I wrong?

At 12/4/08 02:53 AM, MaestroRage wrote: that's all fine and good but this system would be breakable on so many angles it's remotely funny.

1. Proxy users = insta win all the time.
2. Crews would form to nominate each other, effectively screwing over anybody else.
3. This system only takes into consideration people already established and ensures that those who aren't established will never see the light of day, because let's face it, how many of you are going through the portal listening to tracks and trying to find the gems? I mean, really.
4. Strong biasm on genres. To say there was no biasm in the first place would be a lie, but suddenly i'm not going to be seeing anything that's not Trance/Techno/Dance up there.

Am I wrong?

It's really sad to know that no matter what system we might come up with. There will always be someone who exploits it. It pretty much seems that way lately, anyways.

What's a way to eliminate the voting system but still have people get expose on their songs so they don't come into the forums and advertise, complain, etc. Can such a thing even be done?

At 12/4/08 02:53 AM, MaestroRage wrote: that's all fine and good but this system would be breakable on so many angles it's remotely funny.

1. Proxy users = insta win all the time.

I think NG has something against that.

2. Crews would form to nominate each other, effectively screwing over anybody else.

This happens with the current voting system anyways.

3. This system only takes into consideration people already established and ensures that those who aren't established will never see the light of day, because let's face it, how many of you are going through the portal listening to tracks and trying to find the gems? I mean, really.

Yeah, that's a true thing. It'll be harder to establish yourself since all the nominations will go to those already established.

4. Strong biasm on genres. To say there was no biasm in the first place would be a lie, but suddenly i'm not going to be seeing anything that's not Trance/Techno/Dance up there.

Oii.... true true true. NG's so electronica heavy that it's hard for anyone else.

Am I wrong?

Not at all.

Oh, I don't hate. You deserve your position because you earned yourself a reputation. But of course, all of us other artists are trying to fight for recognition too. :P

At 12/4/08 03:34 AM, ParagonX9 wrote:

At 12/3/08 02:26 PM, Hades0013 wrote:

At 12/3/08 02:24 PM, F-777 wrote: ...the 5 most voted get top 5 that way Ng users could actually get songs they like up there ...

Nah, we really don't need to see more of PX9's stuff. XD

lol shut up =[
Why does everyone here always hate my stuff =/

Don't be so dense. No one "hates" your stuff. They hate your popularity. That's with everything in life, sports, politics, school, not just music. It can be rooted in jealousness, bitterness, rebellion, trolling, etc.

There's people on this site who dislike Adam Phillips, Egoraptor, Johnny-Utah for the fact that they believe they shouldn't be as popular as theya re.

This is another voting discussion/conspiracy thread.

Nominations are a great idea...but thats leaning towards more of an elitist approach like system at OCRemix. You could make the standards for submitting more strict, but really its destroying the whole soul of the site, "everything by everyone". If you dont like it, leave the site. Which in most circumstances will be your loss.

At 12/4/08 03:34 AM, ParagonX9 wrote: lol shut up =[
Why does everyone here always hate my stuff =/

Nah, I don't hate your stuff, some of it is really good, but you have to admit- some of your songs have gotten a whole lot of popularity (and have been used in like over a hundred movies) partly because it's you. People know you're good, so they check out and five your new songs automatically. When you make a new song, chances are it'll hit the top 5 (correct me if I'm terribly wrong).

Quite frankly, people that don't really hang on the Forums mostly know only a few Audio artists - you among them, and will not really go cruising around the Audio Portal if they can simply check YOUR profile for new songs.

But seriously, I meant no offense to you personally, it's just that you've become the first thing that comes to peoples minds when they hear "popular audio artist". ;D

Lol, just like everyone one knows dimrain47.
Though if you listen to for example 'twilight techno' you'll notice the drums are actually pretty amateuristic. Shows that most people only care about how fast-paced the music is. They don't really recognize skilled people.
The most skilled people on audio here didn't get even that many tops imho.

...
Though I'm not saying all popukar artists aren't skilled, don't get me wrong >.<

just figured that out 2 seconds after I hit 'post'

At 12/4/08 08:46 AM, MICHhimself wrote: Lol, just like everyone one knows dimrain47.
Though if you listen to for example 'twilight techno' you'll notice the drums are actually pretty amateuristic. Shows that most people only care about how fast-paced the music is. They don't really recognize skilled people.
The most skilled people on audio here didn't get even that many tops imho.

In my opinion, Newgrounds masses places too much bias towards electronica music. Heavy bass, fast synths, and thousands of effects have mass appeal. That and just plain LOUD music. In my opinion, songs from genres such as classical get underrated here. Artists such as DavidOrr, MaestroRage, and Nubbinowns are much more skilled than they're songs are rated for. And the same goes for songs from many other less looked at genres.

At 12/4/08 08:57 AM, HalcyonicFalconX wrote: In my opinion, Newgrounds masses places too much bias towards electronica music. Heavy bass, fast synths, and thousands of effects have mass appeal. That and just plain LOUD music. In my opinion, songs from genres such as classical get underrated here. Artists such as DavidOrr, MaestroRage, and Nubbinowns are much more skilled than they're songs are rated for. And the same goes for songs from many other less looked at genres.

Yeah, personally I find that Metal, Video game and Dance all get unrealistically biased scores leaving the few other genres unrecognised.

At 12/4/08 03:34 AM, ParagonX9 wrote:

At 12/3/08 02:26 PM, Hades0013 wrote:

At 12/3/08 02:24 PM, F-777 wrote: ...the 5 most voted get top 5 that way Ng users could actually get songs they like up there ...

Nah, we really don't need to see more of PX9's stuff. XD

lol shut up =[
Why does everyone here always hate my stuff =/
I'm not trying to be arrogant here but I have to say this
(In the name of the more-popular audio users:)
I'm sure that a very big part of the visitors that find audiopages through flashmovies or other websites, will be spread to other sections/songs of the audioportal.
If not, they still get to know what the audioportal is and that it even exists.
You guys should be thankful to the artists that track so many visitors to the audioportal.
Not hate them because 'they get all the attention' or whatever =/

No one hates your stuff man =).
People like to pick on you cause your
considered the king of NG. Its the same
with Runescape and Zezima etc.

Fact is...your awesome.

Anyone who says otherwise is obviously
jealous or just joking around =).

At 12/4/08 12:11 PM, Chronamut wrote: lol emo jermain.

People are more bitter that you get all the recognition you do because you barely ever submit songs anymore jermain -that is the biggest reason I think - your year long absences and the fact you rarely respond to your reviews leaves people with a bitter taste in their mouth.

So submit more songs you MALE bastard :P

and lay off vg - its a viper's nest in there. It's hard enough just to stay alive.

and try to respond to all your reviews too, should be possible if you check back every day.
I like answers to my reviews at least.

*acts like regular user* OMG PX9 posted in my thread :0
nevermind.

At 12/4/08 08:46 AM, MICHhimself wrote: Lol, just like everyone one knows dimrain47.
Though if you listen to for example 'twilight techno' you'll notice the drums are actually pretty amateuristic. Shows that most people only care about how fast-paced the music is. They don't really recognize skilled people.
The most skilled people on audio here didn't get even that many tops imho.

All of his songs are like that. Not just that drums, but the overall production and the fact that HE USES SYTRUS PRESETS.

But if the energy and melodies are enough to grab the listener than who cares? For listening purposes- music should be judged on how good it sounds, not how professional it sounds. I'll say this over, and over, and over again, technical skill will never equate to how "good" you can write music.

As for skilled musicisns making the top, I'm looking at New-Milkman's blog and I see:

-Rig
-ParagonX9
-MaestroRage
-axeFX
-Reasoner
-NickPerrin
-KingBastard
-Waterflame
-Neodrummer
-Druids-Warcry
-Chronamut
-Terror-Proof
-Nintechno
-Ethalyn
-KillBillVolume2
-Bjra
-JohnnyFrizz
-MilkmanDan
-DanMan87
-F-777
-Warspawn
-SBB
-NemesisTheory
-Cycerin
-Chromatronic
-DJ-Nate
-KTRecords
-nal1200
-TMM43
-Zenon

need I go on. The top 5 isnt balanced as we all want it to be. But to say they dont get many tops? BULLSHIT.

At 12/4/08 08:57 AM, HalcyonicFalconX wrote: In my opinion, Newgrounds masses places too much bias towards electronica music. Heavy bass, fast synths, and thousands of effects have mass appeal. That and just plain LOUD music. In my opinion, songs from genres such as classical get underrated here. Artists such as DavidOrr, MaestroRage, and Nubbinowns are much more skilled than they're songs are rated for. And the same goes for songs from many other less looked at genres.

I'm seconding this tidbit of information.

Go and check the "New Wave" section from the audio main page. It's okay, i'll wait.

..
..
..

So, did you notice ANY songs with a rating over 4.0 that had been there longer than a week? If you did, then you've found one of the rarest oddities i've heard of.

This genre bias is a problem similar to the voting/nomination discussion going on, but it's on a much higher level in that it exemplifies the mindset of the listeners here, amplifying their ignorant hatred (or distaste) for a song based not on the quality of the song, but a minute characteristic that in their own opinion does not sit well.

And of course, when you give people like this power to harm or help audio artists, you can see how the effects can be characterized as unfair.

While the nomination system would not be perfect, its benefits would far outweigh its negative effects (which I remind you are already present in the voting system anyway.)

One final thing, we should not consider popularity the drive for change in this. Sure it's great to have fans, but popularity is really the pure essence of evil that is causing these problems in the first place. We should really focus on improving the system without popularity effects in mind.

End text

Seems I forgot how to spell "Country."

So, instead of checking New Wave, check Country.

Because technically speaking, new wave is a form of electronic, and country is not.

My bad, yo.

At 12/4/08 08:57 AM, HalcyonicFalconX wrote: In my opinion, Newgrounds masses places too much bias towards electronica music. Heavy bass, fast synths, and thousands of effects have mass appeal. That and just plain LOUD music. In my opinion, songs from genres such as classical get underrated here. Artists such as DavidOrr, MaestroRage, and Nubbinowns are much more skilled than they're songs are rated for. And the same goes for songs from many other less looked at genres.

I'm seconding this tidbit of information.

Go and check the "New Wave" section from the audio main page. It's okay, i'll wait.

..
..
..

So, did you notice ANY songs with a rating over 4.0 that had been there longer than a week? If you did, then you've found one of the rarest oddities i've heard of.

This genre bias is a problem similar to the voting/nomination discussion going on, but it's on a much higher level in that it exemplifies the mindset of the listeners here, amplifying their ignorant hatred (or distaste) for a song based not on the quality of the song, but a minute characteristic that in their own opinion does not sit well.

The genre bias is something you will find on any website. People have preferences and theres nothing wrong about it. But seriously, looking at New-Milkman's page, there is a good variancy (if thats not a word, it should be) of different genres that appear in the Top 5 and Top 30 alike. This is much better than Myspace or Mainstream TV where the music is mostly confined to Hip Hop and PopRock.

And of course, when you give people like this power to harm or help audio artists, you can see how the effects can be characterized as unfair.

While the nomination system would not be perfect, its benefits would far outweigh its negative effects (which I remind you are already present in the voting system anyway.)

Yes it does outweigh the negative effects of the system as do many other solutions posted in the zerovoting and exposure thread. but you must keep in mind your idea totally strips the prinicple of the site everything by everyone.

One final thing, we should not consider popularity the drive for change in this. Sure it's great to have fans, but popularity is really the pure essence of evil that is causing these problems in the first place. We should really focus on improving the system without popularity effects in mind.

Nominations encourage a popular driven vote on the same level, if not more. I do agree with you though, but thats how life works.

End text

Alright, it's wednesday again..
This week's top 5:

• 

  The Voice of the Rain

  by gregaaron89

  The Voice of the Rain

  Song

  Ambient

  38,957 Views

  PLAY
• 

  Kazmo - Hard Trance [WIP]

  by Kazmo

  Hard.

  Song

  Trance

  54,644 Views

  PLAY
• 

  Kazmo - Still Alive RMX [WIP]

  by Kazmo

  Mirror's Edge, enough said.

  Song

  Trance

  23,864 Views

  PLAY
• 

  Sandman FX

  by axeFX

  The sandman will pwn you

  Song

  Drum N Bass

  22,805 Views

  PLAY
• 

  Yelltek - I'm Sorry

  by Yelltek

  "Be aware! Big things are happening."

  Song

  Techno

  26,242 Views

  PLAY

We have a double top5 with Kazm0's 2 wips.
I had a quick listen, and I think they're quite deserving their places.
at 1: an ambient song, which pleases me. Good to see ambient there imo.
Then a 4, AxeFx with another Top5 spot, I don't think this song is really deserving it, compared to his previous songs.
At 5 a hardstyle song by Exnotic and Ravetek. I think they did quite a good job at hardstyle, and it's also quite deserving the top5.
But... I haven't checked out many new submissions this week, so maybe there are other songs more deservering, you tell me.

Top30:
...whoa...
My collab with Brittany (DJBrixX) made it to the top30... didn't see that one coming, I was quite surprised when I saw it =D

as for the rest, I see nubbin made a double top30, including his #1 song last week.
and then the usual songs on there ^^

Huzzah, technically I'm on the top 5, too! :D Fun times.

Had a listen to your collab & reviewed, Mich. Good stuff.

At 12/10/08 12:21 PM, Liralei wrote: Huzzah, technically I'm on the top 5, too! :D Fun times.

Had a listen to your collab & reviewed, Mich. Good stuff.

Hah, thanks, It's Britt's turn to respond to reviews though ^^
Anyway, I'd like to add you to my fav artists, but since you have no audio submissions that'll be hard >.<
Doesn anyone know a way around this?

The day i get top 5, I'm going to leave Newgrounds.

So i'm probably going to be leaving in about a few years XD

lolol

At 12/10/08 12:21 PM, Liralei wrote: Huzzah, technically I'm on the top 5, too! :D Fun times.

Had a listen to your collab & reviewed, Mich. Good stuff.

Yes, you do count as being up there. I wish I had your vocals too. >_>

Although my Still Alive remix is on Top 30. That makes for three remixes of the same song on the front page.

In top 30:

• 

  Edge of Faith

  by NemesisTheory

  Remix of the main theme from Mirror's Edge.

  Song

  Video Game

  301,298 Views

  PLAY
• 

  Mirror's Edge Remix =HFX=

  by Phyrnna

  A very short remix of the Mirror's Edge theme.

  Loop

  Video Game

  14,436 Views

  PLAY

In top 5:

• 

  Kazmo - Still Alive RMX [WIP]

  by Kazmo

  Mirror's Edge, enough said.

  Song

  Trance

  23,864 Views

  PLAY

People must really love this song!

At 12/10/08 01:35 PM, HalcyonicFalconX wrote: In top 30:
http://www.newgrounds.com/audio/listen/1 88279
http://www.newgrounds.com/audio/listen/1 90966
In top 5:
http://www.newgrounds.com/audio/listen/1 91734
People must really love this song!

Im making one too............................

At 12/10/08 02:30 PM, xKore wrote:

At 12/10/08 01:35 PM, HalcyonicFalconX wrote: In top 30:
http://www.newgrounds.com/audio/listen/1 88279
http://www.newgrounds.com/audio/listen/1 90966
In top 5:
http://www.newgrounds.com/audio/listen/1 91734
People must really love this song!

Im making one too............................

Bwhahaha!! I'm trying to complete mines also. :3 Let's have the frontpage littered with Mirror's Edge!

We're practically plugging the game for EA.

I wish i got top 30 some day 8(

At 12/10/08 12:23 PM, MICHhimself wrote: Hah, thanks, It's Britt's turn to respond to reviews though ^^
Anyway, I'd like to add you to my fav artists, but since you have no audio submissions that'll be hard >.<
Doesn anyone know a way around this?

Hmmm. I'll upload something sometime, just for the sake of it. :D I'll let you know! Thanks for the comments, guys.

Yay! :D

I'm not used to all this attention!!! 60+ fans...that's wild.

Thanks everyone!!!

Keep up the great work everyone else!!! :D