Hero or mass murderer?

I don't know a GREAT detail about the people who he sentenced to be executed, whether or not they were bad enough to be killed, probably not. I am not against capital punishment, although i find it ironic many of the Che lovers are. [an aspect of liberalism, sorry for steriotyping but i don't know of too many socialists who are in favor of the death penalty, maybe a few...]

Anyway, argue about it. But just so you know,

please put some logic and support into your arguments...

read this if you must, very long lol.

http://www.don-lindsay-archive.org/skept ic/arguments.html

sociopath with mental disorder enough said if you actually think communism works

Killing anything is despicable and completely unnecessary.

In any situation.

He fought for what he believed was right. People would not regard him as a hero if he just killed people for no reason.

At 5/29/08 12:57 AM, LegendaryAwesome wrote: He fought for what he believed was right.

You realize you could use that same argument to defend the Nazis, right?

At 5/29/08 12:57 AM, LegendaryAwesome wrote: He fought for what he believed was right. People would not regard him as a hero if he just killed people for no reason.

;
First of all the masses don't care about the truth, they just soak up the B.S. , the more you feed it too them the more they want. (don't believe me check out how many people have swallowed the single god up in Heaven waitng to let you in or send you to hell crap.... he's watching you, he is & I'm his favorite & only I can help you get to heaven)
He wanted his idea of utopia...with him as one of the elite in charge.
What I know must have him rolling in his grave is the commercialism ,with his image on shirts, pictures etc. -love it-

Sorry, didn't know a thread already existed [or forgot entirely]

This thread can be locked / deleted. [deleted would be better imo]

whatever you think his poster helped me pull a fit girl so he's alright by me

On a related note, here's something I made:

I heard Che's going to be a spokesman for Coca-Cola.

At 5/29/08 07:26 PM, Grammer wrote: Where can I buy one of those Che Guevvara hats? They're so kawaii

HAHA.... the thought of a cartoon Che freaking out on some soapbox somewhere is a good mental image

At 5/29/08 06:46 PM, poxpower wrote: On a related note, here's something I made:

;;
Just a little bit further & he'll be able to pick his own nose with his tongue... interesting idea.

At 5/31/08 12:55 PM, MickTheChampion wrote: Getting shot for your beliefs is a cowardly way to die now? Wow, some of the bravest men in the 20th Century must've been cowards.

He was actually pretty hysterical before his execution. But before they finally did kill him he said...

"Me cago en las tetas de la Virgen María para que el Niño Jesús chupe mierda," which which roughly translates to 'I crap on the tits of the Virgin Mary so that the Baby Jesus sucks shit.'

What a grand guy. I can see why you'd want to stick up for him, Mick.

At 5/28/08 10:51 PM, JackPhantasm wrote: Killing anything is despicable and completely unnecessary.

In any situation.

Is it really?

What about roaches? Or termites? Or the invalid? Or the severly ill (physically or mentally)?

What about a little thing called 'abortion'?

At 5/31/08 03:01 PM, MickTheChampion wrote: "I know you've come to kill me. Shoot, coward, you are only going to kill a man."

According to Jon Lee Anderson of "The New Yorker". You can have a cry about the liberal media if you want now.

Whatever makes you feel better about your admiration.

At 5/31/08 03:36 PM, MickTheChampion wrote: I don't have to feel better about admiring Che Guevara, he's an internationally revered icon.

Sort of like Himmler and the Iron Cross.

But thanks for playing.

Oh boy, what do I win?

At 5/31/08 04:33 PM, Zeistro wrote:

At 5/31/08 03:36 PM, MickTheChampion wrote: I don't have to feel better about admiring Che Guevara, he's an internationally revered icon.

Sort of like Himmler and the Iron Cross.

But thanks for playing.

Oh boy, what do I win?

A NEW CAR!!!

At 5/31/08 04:45 PM, Idiot-Finder wrote:

Oh boy, what do I win?

A NEW CAR!!!

I really hope it's a Mercedes-Benz.

At 5/31/08 04:46 PM, MickTheChampion wrote: No, you're confusing people and things YOU admire with people admired by the international community.

Like how Himmler is admired by humiliated white supremacists. Che is admired by the naive little socialist lemmings all over the world. You'd be surprised these two have ALOT in common.

Mainly my contempt.

The internet is serious business?

no one has the balls to fully follow through with their ideals anymore.

The thing is, the Cuban Revolution worked as it removed the malaise that stifled Cuban society, as not only did they remove Batista, but also the cronies who were propping him up - mainly by expelling them. Even estimates of the deaths of the Castro regime show one thing: the actual deaths ar eone tenth of the number of those fleeing in rafts (here).

There are things that don't add up - half as many committed suicide or were murdered in prison as were executed, for a start, and there's a rather large number of extrajudicial killings. But you have to question if that is the work of Castro or Che (although the 16,000+ who died in the Revolution can directly be attributed to Castro, Che and Batista). But if Castro was so genocidal, why didn't he execute the captives of the Bay of Pigs incident?

Of course, the problem with Che these days is that he's become commodified, ironically the exact opposite of the movement he supported, and you have to ask how many people sporting Che t-shirts have a clue about the guy other than his name and his face. Or how many of them are going to watch Steven Soderbergh's two films (just don't sit through them in one 4 1/2 long go like I did, it's an endurance test). Still, there's one beverage to swig when watching them...

An artist made a bronze sculpture of the Ché here in Buenos Aires, and there was a whole parade, and the controversy (meh, a little group of fascists against the general people who support him) arose.
What was fun was that there was a Bolivian woman who was yelling and crying like a mad person: "We love you in Bolivia!" "Argentinians did not understand you!" but it was the Bolivians who ignored him, betrayed him, an ultimately executed him.

History is fun.

At 5/31/08 02:10 PM, Zeistro wrote: He was actually pretty hysterical before his execution. But before they finally did kill him he said...

"Me cago en las tetas de la Virgen María para que el Niño Jesús chupe mierda," which which roughly translates to 'I crap on the tits of the Virgin Mary so that the Baby Jesus sucks shit.'

What a grand guy. I can see why you'd want to stick up for him, Mick.

That was after they shot him twice in the arm and leg. Before that he said: 'I know you've come to kill me. Shoot, coward, you are only going to kill a man'.

And what did he say when he was captured?
"Please don't kill me, I'm Che, I'm worth more to you alive than dead."

He was communist mass murderer who only deserves to be shat on. And the morons who were his shirt typify pathetic nothings.

At 6/1/08 05:29 PM, MickTheChampion wrote:
"In the years to come, kids on forums will make up lies about what my words upon being captured were."

Words to that effect, you know.

Che biographer Jon Lee Anderson reports Bolivian Sergeant Bernardino Huanca's account: that a twice wounded Guevara, his gun rendered useless, shouted "Do not shoot! I am Che Guevara and worth more to you alive than dead."[85]

He was communist mass murderer who only deserves to be shat on. And the morons who were his shirt typify pathetic nothings.

He was a guerilla freedom fighter who stood up for the poor of the planet, his image will live on for a thousand years after anyone you think is important now has died.

Haha.
What a paradise Cuba is.
utterly pathetic.
What an impact on history he'll have.

to bad his pathetic death was in vain

At 5/28/08 10:51 PM, JackPhantasm wrote: Killing anything is despicable and completely unnecessary.

In any situation.

What if you have to kill someone to stop them killing someone?

At 6/1/08 05:29 PM, MickTheChampion wrote: He was a guerilla freedom fighter who stood up for the poor of the planet, his image will live on for a thousand years after anyone you think is important now has died.

He was a mass murderer who trained Castro's execution squads. He was a monster and a maniac. His real impact on the world was to empower other communist murderers to turn states like Cuba into the "socialist paradises" they are today.

At 6/1/08 05:52 PM, MickTheChampion wrote: You are addressing points I haven't made, cretin. I have not said a single thing about present day Cuba, I was merely pointing out that Guerrillero Heroico is the most famous image of the 20th Century and will still be known when you're long buried. You're the pathetic one for getting so worked up about a man's legacy you'll never be able to change, have a good cry.

He is addressing the fact that, like so many other socialist supporting scum, you are defending a monster against deserved criticism.

Saying he's the most famous image of the 20th century is laughable. Most people who even wear his clothes have no clue who he is. Regardless, setting history straight is important. And if you take joy in the fact that a mass murderer will be remembered in a positive light...you're human garbage. And we'll all be better off the day you croak.

At 6/1/08 06:05 PM, WolvenBear wrote:

At 6/1/08 05:29 PM, MickTheChampion wrote:

He was a mass murderer who trained Castro's execution squads. He was a monster and a maniac. His real impact on the world was to empower other communist murderers to turn states like Cuba into the "socialist paradises" they are today.

this is actually true

At 6/1/08 06:18 PM, MickTheChampion wrote: He fought the men of a heartless dictator who let the United States mafia use Cuba as a playground.

What nonsense. Batista was hardly a great guy...but let's stop pretending that what replaced him wasn't worse. Even if we grant that Che's cause started nobly, it decended into evil REALLY quick.

He was a soldier who did what he had to.

No, he was an executioner of innocent people.:

His impact on the world is so far-reaching that I can't even begin to discuss it with some spotty little fascist on an internet forum.

You're a fucking moron. "Anyone who disagrees with me is a fascist!"

"To send men to the firing squad, judicial proof is unnecessary. These procedures are an archaic bourgeois detail. This is a revolution! And a revolutionary must become a cold killing machine motivated by pure hate."

Those are the words of a fascist. One you support by the way.

http://www.useless-knowledge.com/1234/ne w/article339.html

He was an unrepentant monster.

I'm not going to deny the fact that Che executed prisoners, it was a tough decisions like that which ultimately lead to the victory of the guerillas over the fascists.

The guerrillas WERE facists. They killed innocent people. Are you that bloody stupid?

Name a picture more famous than Guerrillero Heroico. Go on.

Hmmm, let's see....Hitler comes to mind. Neville Chamberlain "peace in our time". Reagan demanding the wall get torn down. The Andre the Giant "Obey" picture. That's four, do I need to keep going?
Oh hell I will anyways. The four beatles walking across the street barefoot. Various photos of Elvis. The USSR sickle and hammer. Martin Luther King Jr. Mao (also the subject of radical moron chic). I think that's plenty.

Hell the Che fad started in 04.

You're trying to dismantle my argument and all you can come up with is petty generalisations? You're the one who's laughable.

Until the Motorcycle diaries, no one knew who Che was. THAT started this imbecilic chic that we see now. Even you seemingly have little knowledge of the man, shooting down legitimate quotes.

You're talking about monsters and human garbage, and yet you'd take delight in someone who is merely debating you on the internet's death? You're the one who's a psychopath. It's no wonder a jumped-up little freak like you can't recognise greatness in a man.

I don't recognize greatness in a murderer. And I never said I'd take delight in your death. I just said we'd be better off without you. I stand by that. You are actively defending a killer of women and children. One who took great delight in executing innocent people. And YOU are taking delight in telling people that he will be regarded as a hero.....tha t they can't change that. I repeat. You're scum. Human garbage. So piss off.
I'm not going to feel bad because some dispicible loser takes offense when I call him on his sickness.

Youre no different than those who idolize Hitler, Achmendinijad, Arafat, et al. I will shed no tears when your viral ilk die out.

At 6/1/08 04:38 PM, therealsylvos wrote: And what did he say when he was captured?
"Please don't kill me, I'm Che, I'm worth more to you alive than dead."

"I think he could've escaped. But he brought a group of sick people that couldn't move at the same speed as he could. When the army starts the pursuit, he decides to stop and tells the sick people to go on. Meanwhile, the circle starts closing onto him. However, the sick ones manage to get away. The enemy was slower than the sick ones. Those who were chasing him directly, the Che can hold. When he's going to go on, the circle closed down completely, and the direct combat begins. But if he had got out with the sick ones, he would've saved himself."

History is so much fun.
I've been having a laugh comparing the Spanish and the English article.