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Does voting even matter anymore?

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Does voting even matter anymore? 2008-05-23 07:05:14


It seems like the entire voting system for the Portal is just a novelty at this point than it was so many years ago. Nowadays, it's like any old piece of shit flash will get through it and stay on Newgrounds. How is it acceptable that entries that score below a 1.00 are even applicable to not be blammed automatically? I remember that Newgrounds at one point had at least some sort of quality control, but it doesn't seem that way anymore with dozens of daily spam/crap flashes getting through no problem.

What's going on? Shouldn't this entire system be reevaluated?

Response to Does voting even matter anymore? 2008-05-23 07:21:08


At 5/23/08 07:05 AM, DDRSW4 wrote: It seems like the entire voting system for the Portal is just a novelty at this point than it was so many years ago. Nowadays, it's like any old piece of shit flash will get through it and stay on Newgrounds. How is it acceptable that entries that score below a 1.00 are even applicable to not be blammed automatically? I remember that Newgrounds at one point had at least some sort of quality control, but it doesn't seem that way anymore with dozens of daily spam/crap flashes getting through no problem.

What's going on? Shouldn't this entire system be reevaluated?

I can appreciate where you're coming from on this matter, but there are a few things that you need to bear in mind. Firstly, there have been various changes put in place in order to prevent people whose work is of a low quality from spamming the portal. Unless I'm very much mistaken, there is a "two strikes and you're out" rule whereby anyone whose work is blammed twice will be banned from submitting for a period of time.

Secondly, in the case of obvious spamming that still manages to get through, it is not unheard of for them to eventually be mass-deleted by the Administration staff, sometimes in the order of hundreds.

Thirdly, the case that you cited of entries less than 1 in score getting through cannot happen. Any entry that has that low a score by 250 votes is guaranteed to be blammed. However, I shall heartily concede that there are some entries whose score is substantially lower than that. It is expedient, though, to bear in mind that this is due to people voting it down after it had originally passed, thus explaining this admittedly puzzling phenomenon.

Response to Does voting even matter anymore? 2008-05-23 16:06:38


At 5/23/08 07:21 AM, Perceptor wrote: Any entry that has that low a score by 250 votes is guaranteed to be blammed.

200

It is expedient, though, to bear in mind that this is due to people voting it down after it had originally passed, thus explaining this admittedly puzzling phenomenon.

Yeah, I have seen at least one movie (the current Turd of the Week) go from around 1.80 to 0.75 between passing and being pushed off the top 50.


wolf piss

Response to Does voting even matter anymore? 2008-05-23 20:19:21


At 5/23/08 07:05 AM, DDRSW4 wrote: What's going on?

People who vote solely for points are running rampant in the Portal.

Shouldn't this entire system be reevaluated?

Well, what would you do to repair the proverbial holes in the current system? It's a tough dilemma, because the point of the voting system is to give everyone a say in the submission's score. The admins don't have time to judge every submission for themselves, and they are the only ones who should really have the power to decide indisputably what should and shouldn't be on the site.

The current system, flawed as it may be, seems to me to be the only feasible option.


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Response to Does voting even matter anymore? 2008-05-25 02:57:27


I don't think the current system is feasible at all, and just as an impromptu response upon reading your message I would say the biggest problem is the fact that points exist at all. I'm always believed that numerical based scoring systems lead to far more problems than it does organization and efficiency. If you were to take away the point system or overhaul it to make it less obvious, then there wouldn't be as big as an incentive for users to just vote 5 for all flashes regardless of quality.

Another problem that I see but cannot confirm is that, apparently, once your submission passes the Portal it is impossible for it to be blammed without administrator intervention. I believe this used to not be the case some odd years ago, but it doesn't appear to be the same way anymore.

One more problem that I see is that with the advent of "Web 2.0," newcomers need to understand this place is not YouTube and not a file hosting site. I've seen dozens and dozens of flashes in recent months that are either poorly put together PowerPoint school projects or video clips converted into flash format. Off topic, but I think it needed to be said.

Response to Does voting even matter anymore? 2008-05-25 15:38:17


At 5/25/08 02:57 AM, DDRSW4 wrote: I don't think the current system is feasible at all

How can it not be feasible when it's been in usage for years...? Perhaps what you meant is that out of all the possibilities, you don't consider it to be the best option?

If you were to take away the point system or overhaul it to make it less obvious, then there wouldn't be as big as an incentive for users to just vote 5 for all flashes regardless of quality.

There wouldn't be as big an incentive for people to vote AT ALL, dude. The fact remains that many people on the site vote for points instead of quality, but that problem is actually being addressed as best it can be. Wade has set up a Portal Watch team (which, incidentally, I'm a part of) consisting of users who are active in the portal, who can report rule-breaking or spam submissions to him via AIM.

The problem is that what you think is crap might give some other users a laugh. You can say that something doesn't deserve to be on NG until you're blue in the face, but if it passed judgment, then that's that, unless an admin believes it to be rule-breaking. Just because something is crap, it doesn't mean it's against the rules.

General submission quality has gone down over the years, yes, but that's just something you have to deal with and move on from. There's still a lot of great submissions in the top 50, weekly winners, daily winners, etc., so just focus on them.

Another problem that I see but cannot confirm is that, apparently, once your submission passes the Portal it is impossible for it to be blammed without administrator intervention.

Problem there is mass-voting. People have mass voted submissions through judgment, and if there was a score threshold to blam post-judgment submissions, you can bet your ass that a lot of submissions would be downvoted to get them off the site, even if they genuinely deserve to be here.

One more problem that I see is that with the advent of "Web 2.0," newcomers need to understand this place is not YouTube and not a file hosting site. I've seen dozens and dozens of flashes in recent months that are either poorly put together PowerPoint school projects or video clips converted into flash format. Off topic, but I think it needed to be said.

Yeah, but like I said, times are changing. The system is meant to be as democratic as possible, and if you ask me, the flaw isn't in the system, it's in the user base. Ijavascript:BBSPost.Save();diots who vote 0 or 5 on anything just to get the points, sometimes without even watching the submission, are the real source of the problem.


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Response to Does voting even matter anymore? 2008-05-25 15:42:47


im so sorry this is all my fault i vote 5 on every submission to get extra save pionts

Response to Does voting even matter anymore? 2008-05-25 18:25:08


At 5/25/08 03:38 PM, NEVR wrote: The problem is that what you think is crap might give some other users a laugh. You can say that something doesn't deserve to be on NG until you're blue in the face, but if it passed judgment, then that's that, unless an admin believes it to be rule-breaking. Just because something is crap, it doesn't mean it's against the rules.

That's the problem, though. There's stuff that is passing just because people want protection points. Do you really think any of those hundreds of "X in Y in Z days" submissions would have passed before protection points? People see that there are dozens of them already passed and the "series" is up to 50-something, and they want their protection points. Having dozens of the same useless flash with a change of music and a different last frame are a complete waste of space and are a great example of people shitting on the portal and no one giving a damn.

Back when quality actually meant something, the first one of those would have been blammed in 25 votes. The two strikes rule doesn't help when people are letting shit like that pass. If anything, it discourages actual artists who are trying to make something good but just aren't quite there yet. Anyone whose intentions are to spam the portal will just make another account and submit it again. Honest people use their one account and take the punishment.


Those who fight Kid only seek to amuse him.

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Response to Does voting even matter anymore? 2008-05-26 00:56:42


At 5/25/08 03:42 PM, shityhead wrote: im so sorry this is all my fault i vote 5 on every submission to get extra save pionts

... and that's why you'll never amount to more than a pile thereof.


Levels --- Badges

Chaos, panic and disorder; my work here is done.

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Response to Does voting even matter anymore? 2008-05-26 00:58:55


even though I'm probably one of the biggest spammers on the portal, I vote 0 on most spam, mainly because I fucking hate zacied and the rest of the shitty KK revival.

crews are dead. get over it.


wolf piss

Response to Does voting even matter anymore? 2008-05-26 14:15:37


At least, however, the nigh on daily +1 series that have already been mentioned in this thread have stopped by this stage. I honestly cannot recall seeing any of those in quite some time despite the fact that they could have theoretically continued for the better portion of a year or so.

Response to Does voting even matter anymore? 2008-05-26 14:37:17


At 5/23/08 07:05 AM, DDRSW4 wrote: It seems like the entire voting system for the Portal is just a novelty at this point than it was so many years ago. Nowadays, it's like any old piece of shit flash will get through it and stay on Newgrounds. How is it acceptable that entries that score below a 1.00 are even applicable to not be blammed automatically? I remember that Newgrounds at one point had at least some sort of quality control, but it doesn't seem that way anymore with dozens of daily spam/crap flashes getting through no problem.

What's going on? Shouldn't this entire system be reevaluated?

Okay, folks.

Listen up. The way this all started was that crews were trying to get turds of the week by squeaking flashes through judgment above 1.60 at 200 votes, then fileswapping or namechanging or authorcommentediting or even just having mass-voted it to protection and leaving it alone afterwards for the rest of NG to downvote it....

The admins have made changes to the system over time, but the one thing that's never changed is this:

The admins don't care if stuff that has a 0.50 to 1.00 or whatever score is sitting at the bottom of the portal when sorted by score.

Why?

HARD DRIVE SPACE IS ALMOST FREE, folks. You can get a freakin' terabyte hard drive for the same amount of money it took to get a 200 meg hard drive a decade or two ago. It's insane how cheap memory is, both in hard drive space terms, and RAM terms.

THERE IS NO SHORTAGE OF SPACE ON THE NG PORTAL FOR NEW ENTRIES. OLD CRAP DOES NOT NEED TO BE CLEARED OFF.

The only thing admins are concerned about is BANDWIDTH, i.e. how much stuff is flowing in and out threw the net to and from NG.

And guess what? The shit sitting at the bottom of the portal's drain... does NOT GET WATCHED THAT MUCH. So it isn't doing any harm in that respect either.

So relax about it, already.

Protect the stuff that's worth protecting, decide for yourself what to do about the borderline stuff (I save it, personally, but that's because I need 9190 or so more saves for my endgame NG goals on this account), and blam the stuff that sucks (which if I can't bring myself to vote to save something, I switch over to another browser and my alt account to snag a blam on it, if I'm fast enough... 50% of the time, I'm not fast enough). If enough people agree... boom.

If not. Oh well. Some authors are just determined to have shitty flash survive on the portal.

It isn't harming anyone or anything but their own karma, man. So relax.


gfox // wi/ht?#9 // defunct PentaList (final update: 3/15/2008) // Cyberdevil's HexaList!

a long, long time ago: 60000 b/p (#2) // 36000 blams (#3) // 24000 saves (#1)

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