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BlackmarketKraig
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Response to Art Forum Lounge 2012-01-27 15:51:45 Reply

At 1/27/12 03:48 PM, Kinsei01 wrote: Fuck yeah!
WOOO!

I got a gallery show next January!
>.>... Now time to procrastinate :P

Congrats, I hope you have a super productive year of art and really knock everyones socks off. ;]


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test-object
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Response to Art Forum Lounge 2012-01-27 15:54:02 Reply

At 1/27/12 03:51 PM, BlackmarketKraig wrote: Congrats, I hope you have a super productive year of art and really knock everyones socks off. ;]

Who the fuck are you?

3

A rather disgusting-looking git that should have been disposed of ages ago.

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Kinsei
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Response to Art Forum Lounge 2012-01-27 15:56:35 Reply

At 1/27/12 03:51 PM, BlackmarketKraig wrote: Congrats, I hope you have a super productive year of art and really knock everyones socks off. ;]

Thanks bmk,
Everything is turning up Kinsei!


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Luwano
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Response to Art Forum Lounge 2012-01-27 15:58:39 Reply

At 1/27/12 03:54 PM, test-object wrote:
At 1/27/12 03:51 PM, BlackmarketKraig wrote: Congrats, I hope you have a super productive year of art and really knock everyones socks off. ;]
Who the fuck are you?
3

That :3 doesn't work as a quote.

Congrats Kinsei, keep us updated on how it went.

Maybe you can post some pics ^^

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Kinsei
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Response to Art Forum Lounge 2012-01-27 16:03:41 Reply

At 1/27/12 03:58 PM, Luwano wrote: Congrats Kinsei, keep us updated on how it went.

Maybe you can post some pics ^^

>:3 Oh I plan on it
It helps it being so far off though. It'll give me lots of time to brag...er, I mean make new art for it


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BlackmarketKraig
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Response to Art Forum Lounge 2012-01-28 04:06:52 Reply

At 1/27/12 03:54 PM, test-object wrote: Who the fuck are you?
3

No one of note. <3

At 1/27/12 03:56 PM, Kinsei01 wrote:
Thanks bmk,
Everything is turning up Kinsei!

Of course. I look forward to hearing all about it. =]

--

Soo... I just learned that The Mysterious Stranger segment of The Adventures of Mark Twain (1986) is often omitted when (if) the movie is shown on television. This bothers me a lot (even more than the advertising thing, ReNaeNae).

Additionally, many libraries and schools that carry Maurice Sendak's classic In the Night Kitchen take it into their own hands to omit the little boys nudity to assuage parents fears about their children being exposed to such a horrible, blasphemous thing as nudity.

There are plenty of other examples of such actions taken by citizens to remove potentially "offensive" content out of pieces of art and from the view of the children who might be exposed to it.

As artists, I wonder how you guys feel about this form of private citizen censorship.


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Response to Art Forum Lounge 2012-01-28 05:42:37 Reply

At 1/28/12 04:06 AM, BlackmarketKraig wrote: There are plenty of other examples of such actions taken by citizens to remove potentially "offensive" content out of pieces of art and from the view of the children who might be exposed to it.

As artists, I wonder how you guys feel about this form of private citizen censorship.

I often find it adults are projecting their fears on children. I love showing any of my drawings to children, as they're never creeped out or even slightly scared. They are extremely tough and interested in aspects of the drawing instead. They'll say they don't like the feet of a character but do like the eyes, whilst many adults will look at the full picture and the full picture only.

Either way, any way, shape or form censorship is bullshit. Harlequin romances, TV, comics and games have all been accused of ruining a generation by people who's culture reaches as far as fucking 'Titanic'.


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Response to Art Forum Lounge 2012-01-28 05:50:24 Reply

At 1/28/12 05:42 AM, test-object wrote: Either way, any way, shape or form censorship is bullshit. Harlequin romances, TV, comics and games have all been accused of ruining a generation by people who's culture reaches as far as fucking 'Titanic'.

yeah It seems every generation thinks they were more educated than the next one... to put things in perspective; todays youth are the kids of the Mtv Generation...


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radiodark
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Response to Art Forum Lounge 2012-01-28 15:05:33 Reply

At 1/28/12 04:06 AM, BlackmarketKraig wrote: Soo... I just learned that The Mysterious Stranger segment of The Adventures of Mark Twain (1986) is often omitted when (if) the movie is shown on television. This bothers me a lot (even more than the advertising thing, ReNaeNae).

Funny. Mark Twain has a long history of censorship. When Huckleberry Finn first came out, it was banned by the Concord Library as trash with bad grammar. Twain said, "The truth is, that when a Library expels a book of mine and leaves an unexpurgated Bible lying around where unprotected youth and age can get hold of it, the deep unconscious irony of it delights me and doesn't anger me."

More recently, people try to soften the words "injun" and a word that the BBS won't let me post, replacing them with "Indian" and "slave", which is bizarre because Twain was aggressively anti-racist and the words lent a weight of authenticity that the censored text lacks.

Anyway, as an artist and as a viewer i find censorship sad and insulting. Getting upset over nudity always seems particularly ridiculous- we're born naked and descended from tree rat creatures.


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Carrion
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Response to Art Forum Lounge 2012-01-28 15:09:50 Reply

Hey do any of you guys know the show Constructoid? Well im going to be doing the art for the new season. Yay!


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Response to Art Forum Lounge 2012-01-29 01:36:15 Reply

At 1/26/12 12:01 AM, Spysociety wrote: I would like to know if anyone of you know some forum of animation (professional forums would do great) which I can ask questions because I have a really big doubt which I believe that nobody will be able to help me here.

You can try asking here and see if anyone can help. It's worth a shot.

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Response to Art Forum Lounge 2012-01-29 05:38:23 Reply

Why does thou speaketh in such a bizarre tongue, from whence are you from? censorship is totally over-rated, that should totally be behind us man. What are people so afraid of "oh no my child is tainted!" why? "she has seen a nude man" o.O.

-now something more random-

"They can censor television! They can censor movies, the internet and video Games! They try to censor us with these clothes,But they can no longer! for we are not one divided! but many united!"

the world... is... Crippled. (<< that's a serious statement.)


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Response to Art Forum Lounge 2012-01-29 11:26:42 Reply

Let's all imagine a world without copyright. At all. Not on your work, nor others.
Would you like living in it?


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Response to Art Forum Lounge 2012-01-29 11:53:26 Reply

At 1/29/12 11:26 AM, test-object wrote: Let's all imagine a world without copyright. At all. Not on your work, nor others.
Would you like living in it?

It'd be interesting. Medicines would be dirt cheap, and I imagine craftsmanship would be valued much more highly as a measure of skill. Not sure I'd like how it'd impact the internet though- I hate watermarks and I'm sure they'd get a lot more common.


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XWarrior61
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Response to Art Forum Lounge 2012-01-29 12:00:42 Reply

At 1/29/12 11:26 AM, test-object wrote: Let's all imagine a world without copyright. At all. Not on your work, nor others.
Would you like living in it?

Copyrights are necessary for original work. What I personally see as the problem is that (so far as I know) there are no guidelines that lay out how far you can go before there is a copyright infringement. Lets say you take Mickey Mouse, a well known character through Disney, and put his ears on an otherwise original character. Unless Disney has put a copyright on every individual part of Mickey's body, can this be enough for copyright infringement or is it similar to music copyrights; which say up to 10% of a song can be used without violating the copyright.


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notnath
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Response to Art Forum Lounge 2012-01-29 12:57:51 Reply

At 1/29/12 11:26 AM, test-object wrote: Let's all imagine a world without copyright. At all. Not on your work, nor others.
Would you like living in it?

I'd love that. People are so obsessed with holding on to things. Make something, release it and be done with it. We should be making art for the sake of art, not money nor ego.

Radiohead, Nine Inch Nails and other artists have all done that, the name your price deal, and sometimes you can even receive more money in return.

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Response to Art Forum Lounge 2012-01-29 13:07:00 Reply

At 1/29/12 12:57 PM, nathanielmilburn wrote: We should be making art for the sake of art, not money nor ego.

I can't think of many artists who are famous and they or their family didn't get some money for their work. The ideal would be (for me or most people here) to be compensated for your work, just as someone working at Wal-Mart gets compensated. Otherwise... it's just a very expensive hobby.

At 1/29/12 12:57 PM, nathanielmilburn wrote:
Radiohead, Nine Inch Nails and other artists have all done that, the name your price deal, and sometimes you can even receive more money in return.

They had to get very famous for this to work. My gives away music all the time. It does not really do anything for us except when we do it at shows, then we get more fans (who want free stuff which costs us money.) As a matter of fact, all the free stuff (something in the thousands) we've given away versus the money we've earned(something like 600$), our total gain would be like -1200 american dollars. So, if we're famous and give the option to pay, then I suspect that'd be cool, doing it while we've got a crowd of 50 or so people... naw


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Response to Art Forum Lounge 2012-01-29 14:55:10 Reply

Copyright is a very important aspect of our society and without it we wouldn't have anything close to the technology we have nowadays. Without legal protection, noone would have enough money to develop and test new medicine.
On the subject of art I do follow the sentiment that it should be different; then again shouldnt poeple be developing drugs to cure a disease rather than to make money? In a perfect world having no copyright might work; but poeple aren't perfect. We need some form of copyright protection to make it rewarding to invest time and money in creating something new.
The current legislation may have lost sight of it's original goal though.

anyone interested should watch rip: a remix manifesto btw...


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Response to Art Forum Lounge 2012-01-29 15:45:39 Reply

At 1/29/12 12:57 PM, nathanielmilburn wrote: I'd love that. People are so obsessed with holding on to things. Make something, release it and be done with it. We should be making art for the sake of art, not money nor ego.

You can make art for the sake of art all you want... but when joe dirtbag takes that art, puts it in a book and sells it for a shit ton of money and you don't see a dime ...that's a problem. Unless you're joe dirtbag or his brother, of course.


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notnath
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Response to Art Forum Lounge 2012-01-29 16:30:58 Reply

At 1/29/12 03:45 PM, Nae wrote: You can make art for the sake of art all you want... but when joe dirtbag takes that art, puts it in a book and sells it for a shit ton of money and you don't see a dime ...that's a problem. Unless you're joe dirtbag or his brother, of course.

People are going to do that regardless. Just look at Megaupload. If your work is good, you're going to attract fans eventually and true fans are going to want to support you. I know you need to make a living, I just think people worry too much about this type of stuff. You may have to grab a second job or work at McDonalds until you can make enough money doing what you want.

A good trick is when you make something, burn it on a disc and mail it to yourself, then never open the letter. Then you have proof you made this at this time with a official government time-stamp on it. So that way if you're worried about someone stealing your shit you have proof you made it.

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Response to Art Forum Lounge 2012-01-29 17:19:33 Reply

Because you don't talk to me anymore nae... i thought i would post it here...

I hugged luis for you and he also said that he sent you a card...

pics or it didn't happen

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Response to Art Forum Lounge 2012-01-29 17:41:32 Reply

At 1/29/12 05:19 PM, LegolaSS wrote: I hugged luis for you and he also said that he sent you a card...

d'awww! for cute!! thank you!! :D ...I didn't get a card :(

pics or it didn't happen
dammit, I knew I should have asked for a kiss... with tongue!! lawl!!

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Response to Art Forum Lounge 2012-01-29 17:43:22 Reply

At 1/29/12 04:30 PM, nathanielmilburn wrote: People are going to do that regardless. Just look at Megaupload. If your work is good, you're going to attract fans eventually and true fans are going to want to support you. I know you need to make a living, I just think people worry too much about this type of stuff. You may have to grab a second job or work at McDonalds until you can make enough money doing what you want.

Nah. Personally, I'd rather just copyright the pictures and get paid for it. From an artists perspective, I certainly would not want to split up the time I get to make art just because I can't make any money from it.

That would... suck. A lot. Like, really.

A good trick is when you make something, burn it on a disc and mail it to yourself, then never open the letter. Then you have proof you made this at this time with a official government time-stamp on it. So that way if you're worried about someone stealing your shit you have proof you made it.

Not sure how an envelope is submittable in a court of law. Suppose as evidence (as compared to say, a copyright patent?), but then again in a copyright-less world it'd matter jack-all anyway. Fine, you've got proof. Congratulations.

Anyway this whole argument is pretty stupid. We have copyright, but it's really doing a great job of making life a little more inconvenient. I don't see how shutting down an entire site works if it infringed on your copyright without yourself being a total bastard.

Unless it's entire deal was making money from your creative ideas or something.

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Response to Art Forum Lounge 2012-01-29 17:51:19 Reply

At 1/29/12 05:43 PM, Lintire wrote:
At 1/29/12 04:30 PM, nathanielmilburn wrote: People are going to do that regardless. Just look at Megaupload. If your work is good, you're going to attract fans eventually and true fans are going to want to support you. I know you need to make a living, I just think people worry too much about this type of stuff. You may have to grab a second job or work at McDonalds until you can make enough money doing what you want.
Nah. Personally, I'd rather just copyright the pictures and get paid for it. From an artists perspective, I certainly would not want to split up the time I get to make art just because I can't make any money from it.

Pretty sure that happens quite a lot already. It's common to hear about musicians not doing anywhere okay even though their music is fine, but never about record companies having to take second jobs.


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Response to Art Forum Lounge 2012-01-29 19:04:38 Reply

At 1/29/12 05:43 PM, Lintire wrote: Not sure how an envelope is submittable in a court of law. Suppose as evidence (as compared to say, a copyright patent?), but then again in a copyright-less world it'd matter jack-all anyway. Fine, you've got proof. Congratulations.

That mailing thing works good for logos, names when you're in a band, a story or song that hasn't been copywritten yet and such.

Because of the government timestamp it lets people know when you completed this and if someone stole my band name, our logo, stole artwork and songs (one or all of these) we can use the timestamp as the official date and can be compete against whenever the thief started working on their thievery. If they have no official documentation that predates ours then it is proof it's stolen.

Though...you can trademark things like band names, logos and stuff, it could help with someone stealing art in that sense.


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Response to Art Forum Lounge 2012-01-29 21:18:44 Reply

As I understand it from a super helpful book I'm reading for school called Art/Work, if you're paranoid you can choose to register your copyrights with the US Copyright's office. This costs maybe $35 dollars online or thereabouts, and you can register all your images at once- you don't have to pay separately for each. This makes it so if you bring a case against someone who has stolen your work, you'll have an easier time proving the case, you'll be able to get a certain amount of money for each instance of infringement, and you might be able to get the offending party to pay your legal bills. Otherwise you'll have to prove that the infringement has caused "actual damages" rather than getting a straight amount of $.

More expensive than postage, but if piracy is a viable concern it seems a much better route to take.


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Response to Art Forum Lounge 2012-01-29 21:33:32 Reply

Don't let this distract you from the copyright discussion, its about time we had a good one going in here.

But I revived the art portal patrol briefly to get some folks scouted who were unfortunately dropped in a recent cleaning of the art portal. Figured I would let you lot know since I don't know how often you all check C&C.

Carry on. I'm enjoying the copyright discussion.

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Response to Art Forum Lounge 2012-01-29 21:52:43 Reply

Intellectual Property Rights are an amazing thing. They can be credited for spawning a lot of innovation. They motivate thinkers to do the leg work required to actually bring their ideas to life. Without the promise of reward they wouldn't bother. Act of creation can be amazing and fun, but if an artists/inventors sole motive was that act why would they bother sharing it? Some people could be motivated by their need for attention, or a competitive drive. But I'd say that's about as much motivational push as doing it out of the goodness of their widdle hearts. I think we all understand that. I think we lose sight of it when we see the system as a whole. Which is broken.

My example would be the the music industry. It's inefficient and outdated. Artists get paid a very little percentage of the actual record sale. The labels take that money and market it, package it, and skim off a huge chunk to make themselves indispensable. Artist's like Radiohead and NIN cast off labels because they can. They no longer need the labels to leverage their work into the public eye. They are known. Established. The benefits of label support are substantially diminished. The Record labels have an infrastructure in place that allows artists (when signed) to get a huge advantage in the market. There probably are some unsigned artists that worked themselves completely and totally from the ground up, but I honestly can't think of any.

This is going to sound like I've drank the Apple Kool-Aid, but bear with me. Itunes revolutionized the industry. Cutting the consumer cost of an album in half. And too be honest it's still too high. Because while overhead is mostly gone labels still take a huge cut for marketing. From what I've read (and I'll grant you this was a while ago) Apple takes about %30. And the artist recieves about %15. Meaning the label takes about %55. Since Apple does all the management and distribution that leaves the label only doing the role of marketing. In an egalitarian market place all that amounts to is an advantage over your peers. You're not better, just better positioned. I see fat there. Maybe you could trim some fat from the Apple infrastructure, but I also kinda blame that on the labels. There is a reason iTunes doesn't let you transfer from an iPod to your computer, and it isn't technical. Labels make what would otherwise be a pretty elegant distribution system overly complicated. And it's even gotten better because Apple was able to leverage it's strength against the labels to do away with things like DRM.

Now on to a truly flourishing industry. App development. Android and iOS App stores are an amazing market of free ideas. It allows creators to elegantly distribute Apps cheaply to their customers. App prices are fucking low. Crazy low. And that's with things like Cydia. Piracy is going on, but because the experience is so good without it the motivation to pirate is low. App developers are happy because they're actually making money. Customers are happy because they don't have to pay a lot. Is the effort to make an App like Infinity blade is less than the effort to make an album. Maybe, but it's at least comparable. Infinity Blade is what? 5 bucks? Compare that to the simplist indiest of simple indie games at Game Stop.

In short I don't see Copyright laws as the problem.

God damn I'm preachy

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Response to Art Forum Lounge 2012-01-30 14:52:13 Reply

The flip side of all this is that copyright is a relatively recent human invention. True originality is rare if not impossible- we all work (arguably) in the business of transforming and repackaging old ideas in new and fascinating ways. If Shakespeare (ignore this part Orn) had had to work with the restrictions of copyright, various people would have sued his ass off and the end product would have lacked the linguistic genius that Shakespeare provided. Also note that American copyright law gets extended every time Walt Disney's creations come close to entering the public domain.

I'd like to second what Jasper said about the Remix video- it's visually interesting, really superb and just so you know, it uses the pay-what-you-like model. I'm pretty sure the makers would rather you watch it and come away informed than not watch it, so go download it. Shoo.


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Response to Art Forum Lounge 2012-01-30 19:50:50 Reply

This is my friend, Robert

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