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ornery
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Response to Art Forum Lounge 2010-11-17 12:13:14 Reply

To end the tracing disscussion:
I've said it in the tracing thread a while back and I'll say it again. Tracing is a viable art form, WHEN DONE PROPERLY. This means tracing your own work, your own references. Lots of famous artists have used tracing as a starting point to their pieces, and these are artists im sure the bulk of you like and respect (most famously Boris Vallejo). However the trace is just 2% of his work, the rest is all him. Tracing or gridding are also excellent tools for learning how another artist works, or taking the flaws out of your outline so you can worry more about everything else in the piece. Another less known use for tracing is using it as a method to check your work. You can freehand a drawing, and then overlay a trace on top of it and see where you messed up, then remove the trace and fix the error.

However using any of these methods its important you let people know. Partially because its part of your process, and partly because if you explain it properly and didnt do it the wrong way people wont see it as such a bad thing. I have a series of small drawings (that are impossible to photograph so they can only be seen in person) that uses the method of using traces to check my work. these things are done on such a small scale and on a surface where mistakes cannot be made, so I draw first on transparent paper for my initial outline, then trace my reference (which is always my own) and overlay the trace on the sketch to make sure everything is right or close enough. Then I do a transfer of the sketch onto the final surface so it stays pristine.

When tracing is unacceptable is when you use someone elses drawing or reference, change a few things, then call it an original piece. If you are going to trace someone elses stuff do it for practice and then stash it away or chuck it, don't call it a finished original piece. And if someone calls you out on tracing you better damn well admit to it, even if its a tiny portion of the drawing, because if its proven that you did and you denied it there will be hell to pay and you will just look like a douche.

Ultimately its best to do everything without tracing, but sometimes it takes tracing properly to get to that stage.

argile
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Response to Art Forum Lounge 2010-11-17 12:13:52 Reply

At 11/17/10 12:09 PM, Fifty-50 wrote:
At 11/17/10 12:06 PM, argile wrote: Funny you don't seem like a person who Deserves a ED article . You have to deserve it
Like how? Should I bring world peace? Do an awesome animation. Or get a Daily Feature? Win a Noble Peace Prize? Is that the process?
Lol irony.

Nope none of that ... I think you have to be like everything a Hateful person aspires to be among many bad qualities. Christian Weston Chandler is one good example.

PigeonOnAStick
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Response to Art Forum Lounge 2010-11-17 12:17:07 Reply

tracings for nubs


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Fifty-50
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Response to Art Forum Lounge 2010-11-17 12:18:58 Reply

At 11/17/10 12:13 PM, argile wrote: Nope none of that ... I think you have to be like everything a Hateful person aspires to be among many bad qualities. Christian Weston Chandler is one good example.

Oh that guy! I read all about him way back and I'd say he did some pretty retarded crap. He even has his own wiki! Nah, I wouldn't follow that guy.


Art Thread/NG Art - View it. /I love rainbows do you?/

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Abbyka
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Response to Art Forum Lounge 2010-11-17 12:27:09 Reply

At 11/17/10 09:52 AM, CloudEater wrote:
At 11/17/10 08:40 AM, Abbyka wrote: I started off with tracing when I was a kid to get a handle on drawing. I moved on to copying from site then felt comfortable enough to do my own thing without having something to look at. Tracing can be a great step in the right direction, but it's only a step if you move on to the next. Just my opinion on the matter.
It's not really helpful unless your thinking about the overall object that your tracing while you trace. If your treating it as a precision task to see how well you can stay on the line then your not gonna learn anything, your hand movements might become steadier but your not learning how to draw and think about drawing.

When I was young I copied pokemon drawings, only focused on the lines and not really on the whole object. If I had been copying it correctly and thinking correctly I would have been able to draw that same pokemon but in a different stance or from a different angle but because I just focused on the way the lines went I could only draw the pokemon in the way it was in the picture I had looked at and if I tried drawing it in a different pose it looked like it had been raped.

Maybe I just had the right mind set then because it did work for me. *shrugs* As for putting things in another pose that too takes practice.

And I totally agree with ornery, tracing can be useful. I'm probably going to have to rely on it for the flash I'm creating without a tablet, which means I have to do it by hand. Having the previous frame under the paper to check my precision and errors will be key. But the characters themselves will be originally drawn. But it shouldn't be the entirety of your skill or art portfolio.

Occluded
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Response to Art Forum Lounge 2010-11-17 12:42:13 Reply

At 11/17/10 12:13 PM, ornery wrote: To end the tracing disscussion:

completely agree.

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ReNaeNae
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Response to Art Forum Lounge 2010-11-17 12:52:27 Reply

At 11/17/10 12:27 PM, Abbyka wrote: And I totally agree with ornery, tracing can be useful. I'm probably going to have to rely on it for the flash I'm creating without a tablet, which means I have to do it by hand. Having the previous frame under the paper to check my precision and errors will be key.

Can't you draw with a mouse... and use onion skinning?

Abbyka
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Response to Art Forum Lounge 2010-11-17 12:56:27 Reply

At 11/17/10 12:52 PM, ReNaeNae wrote:
At 11/17/10 12:27 PM, Abbyka wrote: And I totally agree with ornery, tracing can be useful. I'm probably going to have to rely on it for the flash I'm creating without a tablet, which means I have to do it by hand. Having the previous frame under the paper to check my precision and errors will be key.
Can't you draw with a mouse... and use onion skinning?

What's onion skinning? As for the mouse, no, my arm gets terribly shakey when I try because of the old injuries I have(broke my shoulder when I was a teenager and I also have a pinched nerve in my elbow, both of which still bother me). I'm more able to control a pencil than a mouse. I submitted two things to that green line collab that I did with a mouse and both were horrible.

Wivernryder
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Response to Art Forum Lounge 2010-11-17 13:02:12 Reply

At 11/17/10 11:13 AM, big-jonny-13 wrote: Did someone say shenanigans?

Remember, there's usually an alloted 14 hours 47 minutes for shenanigans!


.

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Occluded
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Response to Art Forum Lounge 2010-11-17 13:18:43 Reply

Play time's over.

Damn you Renaenae with your rule enforcing.
ReNaeNae
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Response to Art Forum Lounge 2010-11-17 13:31:55 Reply

At 11/17/10 01:18 PM, Occluded wrote: Play time's over.
Damn you Renaenae with your rule enforcing.

You can continue arguing all you want... just keep it in his thread or the lounge... doesn't need to be in every topic of every forum. It's ridiculous and stupid anyway :P

Onion skinning:
A feature in flash that lets you see frames before/after the one you're one. See below.

You can check the flash and animation forums for more info ;)

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Abbyka
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Response to Art Forum Lounge 2010-11-17 13:38:48 Reply

At 11/17/10 01:31 PM, ReNaeNae wrote:
At 11/17/10 01:18 PM, Occluded wrote: Play time's over.
Damn you Renaenae with your rule enforcing.
You can continue arguing all you want... just keep it in his thread or the lounge... doesn't need to be in every topic of every forum. It's ridiculous and stupid anyway :P

Onion skinning:
A feature in flash that lets you see frames before/after the one you're one. See below.
You can check the flash and animation forums for more info ;)

Awesome. :) I only just downloaded flash and haven't had a chance to learn anything yet. lol

BlackmarketKraig
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Response to Art Forum Lounge 2010-11-17 13:40:38 Reply

At 11/17/10 01:31 PM, ReNaeNae wrote:
Onion skinning:
A feature in flash that lets you see frames before/after the one you're one. See below.
You can check the flash and animation forums for more info ;)

Holy crap, is that an animation of yours? Looks awesome!

Way to rub salt in my inferiority complex. =[

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Ashman
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Response to Art Forum Lounge 2010-11-17 13:58:05 Reply

achievement unlocked 2 is the easiest medal game ever, 250 medals, 5 points a medal = over 1000 points in under 20 minutes, at least thats what i just managed to get :P

just wanted to inform legolass of this
ReNaeNae
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Response to Art Forum Lounge 2010-11-17 13:58:57 Reply

At 11/17/10 01:38 PM, Abbyka wrote: Awesome. :) I only just downloaded flash and haven't had a chance to learn anything yet. lol

Oh! lmao!! ...didn't realize!! Well, good luck! if you need help with anything...
ask CloudEater! That's what I do!!

haha!!! I'll help too if i can! ;)

At 11/17/10 01:40 PM, BlackmarketKraig wrote: Holy crap, is that an animation of yours? Looks awesome!

what?! shut up! that's from the shades of blue collab from like a million years ago... it was the only thing I had handy that would actually work to show onion skinning lol :P

Way to rub salt in my inferiority complex. =[

salt rub, what? ...that reminds me I have some pork ribs I need to cook up! ...brb ;P

Chronamut
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Response to Art Forum Lounge 2010-11-17 14:30:27 Reply

I love onion skinnign - everyone has been bugging me to get back into flash - I took a 8 year hiatus from it in hopes that flash would become more advanced and be capable of outputtign faster qualtiy - as I constantly had lag issues due to too much detail.

Maybe I'll start again over the christmas break.. need to work on more facial expressions for my enunciation library

BlackmarketKraig
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Response to Art Forum Lounge 2010-11-17 14:30:43 Reply

At 11/17/10 01:58 PM, ReNaeNae wrote: what?! shut up! that's from the shades of blue collab from like a million years ago... it was the only thing I had handy that would actually work to show onion skinning lol :P

Wow, Shades of... that brings back memories. I really wanted to participate in that one but I didn't. It almost seems like the nature of collabs on NG was different back then, like they were somehow more bold and noble.... I wonder if the nature of collabs has actually changed or if it's me that has changed.

--

Anyway, would people get behind an art collab with the same basic structure as the Evolution Project thread? Where we start with some unicellular blobs and let people slowly evolve them? I figure it could be presented like a nature documentary with someone narrating the stages of the life forms as they evolve. Would anyone be up for that or have suggestions for it?


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Chronamut
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Response to Art Forum Lounge 2010-11-17 14:36:29 Reply

At 11/17/10 02:30 PM, BlackmarketKraig wrote:
Wow, Shades of... that brings back memories. I really wanted to participate in that one but I didn't. It almost seems like the nature of collabs on NG was different back then, like they were somehow more bold and noble.... I wonder if the nature of collabs has actually changed or if it's me that has changed.

naw newgropunds has changed - I think peopel have simply become bored and jaded with the reality of the human condition.

--

Anyway, would people get behind an art collab with the same basic structure as the Evolution Project thread? Where we start with some unicellular blobs and let people slowly evolve them? I figure it could be presented like a nature documentary with someone narrating the stages of the life forms as they evolve. Would anyone be up for that or have suggestions for it?

something like this?

I got bored and never finished it - was supposed to be an evolution of black and white from blobs.. I may finish it one day.

Chronamut
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Response to Art Forum Lounge 2010-11-17 14:37:54 Reply

er wtf.. add a !.swf to the end of that link.. stupid newgrounds..

Abbyka
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Response to Art Forum Lounge 2010-11-17 14:42:16 Reply

At 11/17/10 01:58 PM, ReNaeNae wrote:
At 11/17/10 01:38 PM, Abbyka wrote: Awesome. :) I only just downloaded flash and haven't had a chance to learn anything yet. lol
Oh! lmao!! ...didn't realize!! Well, good luck! if you need help with anything...
ask CloudEater! That's what I do!!

haha!!! I'll help too if i can! ;)

Well do you know of any good tutorials? Someone did show me a lip syncing one that was very helpful.

bigjonny13
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Response to Art Forum Lounge 2010-11-17 14:49:51 Reply

At 11/17/10 02:30 PM, BlackmarketKraig wrote: I figure it could be presented like a nature documentary with someone narrating the stages of the life forms as they evolve.

Planet Earth style documentary?

And here we see the wild ephalus roaming the forest in search of a mate. Unfortunately, this one is quite hideous and is most likely going to beaten to death because of such.
BlackmarketKraig
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Response to Art Forum Lounge 2010-11-17 14:50:45 Reply

At 11/17/10 02:36 PM, Chronamut wrote:
something like this?

I got bored and never finished it - was supposed to be an evolution of black and white from blobs.. I may finish it one day.

Heh, well not quite. I was just thinking of a slideshow type of art collab with the same basic rules as The Evolution Project thread. But put together in a .swf with someone narrating the stages of the creatures evolution.

Cool animation though. =]


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Response to Art Forum Lounge 2010-11-17 15:26:39 Reply

At 11/17/10 02:50 PM, BlackmarketKraig wrote: Heh, well not quite. I was just thinking of a slideshow type of art collab with the same basic rules as The Evolution Project thread. But put together in a .swf with someone narrating the stages of the creatures evolution.

I would definitely get behind that. Quality control would be an issue with it though; more so than with other collabs. All drawings are gonna get compared to each other one on one, so differences in quality will probably be more of an issue Id say. Also time would be an issue... Basically youd have to prescreen poeple; then give them a week to finish their parts.... or perhaps have them scetch it out and detail it later...


NEVER LOOSE FAITH IN MANCUNT

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Chronamut
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Response to Art Forum Lounge 2010-11-17 16:43:33 Reply

that would be cool - a rapid evolutional process. You could sub in a timeframe bg too so it looks liek it happens over millions of years.

Occluded
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Response to Art Forum Lounge 2010-11-17 19:20:00 Reply

Now that I have time again I'd love to get involved in another good collab. Even COW. I'm painting on my own but I find it easier to get motivated with a deadline.

MajesticBob
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Response to Art Forum Lounge 2010-11-17 23:32:10 Reply

At 11/17/10 07:20 PM, Occluded wrote: Now that I have time again I'd love to get involved in another good collab. Even COW. I'm painting on my own but I find it easier to get motivated with a deadline.

Why not try the new and improved PMotW? (yes, it's a shameless plug)

Kosuk
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Response to Art Forum Lounge 2010-11-18 06:39:34 Reply

Oh My GOD im the only one online in this forum !!!

D 8 wow i feel so lonely!


But there's no sence crying over every mistake.
You just keep on trying till you run out of cake.

-Portal, Still alive

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Chronamut
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Response to Art Forum Lounge 2010-11-18 10:08:51 Reply

At 11/18/10 06:39 AM, Kosuk wrote: Oh My GOD im the only one online in this forum !!!

D 8 wow i feel so lonely!

poor you :P

Luis
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Response to Art Forum Lounge 2010-11-18 10:13:20 Reply

At 11/17/10 02:30 PM, BlackmarketKraig wrote:
At 11/17/10 01:58 PM, ReNaeNae wrote: what?! shut up! that's from the shades of blue collab from like a million years ago... it was the only thing I had handy that would actually work to show onion skinning lol :P
Wow, Shades of... that brings back memories. I really wanted to participate in that one but I didn't. It almost seems like the nature of collabs on NG was different back then, like they were somehow more bold and noble.... I wonder if the nature of collabs has actually changed or if it's me that has changed.

Interesting thoughts. I actually had that very thought myself the other day. Maybe the collab scene has just gotten into a sort of comfort zone? Like not many people really pushing that to its limits or trying to knock down new walls? I guess its kind of like the gaming scene where flash games for a good bit were mostly just defend your castle and then the whole retro thing started kicking in and the whole scene in general started to grow a bit more. (Its hard to say what spurred that though, because it could just be that flash gaming as a business finally became big business and in fact THAT was what spurred the influx of ideas. so maybe its an unfair comparison. but whatever)


None

Chronamut
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Response to Art Forum Lounge 2010-11-18 10:24:41 Reply

perhaps propose money prizes for collabs luis - things seem to thrive on here when money is suddenly presented.