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SlashFirestorm
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Response to B/P ranks 51+ 2011-03-27 21:16:36 Reply

I agree with this decision.

Back in the day I was one of the fastest B/P'ers on the site (occasionally THE fastest), usually netting 100+ B/P a day. This was not easy to do, requiring 16 hour B/P runs every single day. But the great thing about it was that most of my work was BLAMMING since the majority of work submitted to the Portal is (and has always been) blam-worthy. I haven't B/P'ed actively in a long time, but if I did, I suspect I'd get maybe ten or twenty a day due to all of the utter shit passing judgment.

This has been a problem as long as I can remember, but it has been getting steadily worse these past few years and now is utterly unbearable. Back in the height of my B/P'ing days, submissions leaned at least 2:1 in favor of blamming (and rightfully so; the problem has never been quality flashes being blammed, rather the other way around), often more so. Yesterday only a sixth---a SIXTH---of the submissions were blammed. One of the major reasons I stopped B/P'ing (and running the EGB) was because I gave up hope on the Portal---as long as the mass-protecting statwhores are allowed to get away with this crap, nothing will change no matter how many people try to vote honestly.

To be blunt, unless this site gets a big shot of totalitarianism from the admins, the Portal is never going to stop sucking. Nerf the hell out of the people voting five on everything and continue doing it so newbies learn their lesson fast. Maybe remove the division between blams and saves and just have a single "Portal points" stat (although knowing the intelligence of the idiots doing this, that would just give them an excuse to stop blamming altogether...). Have trusted Portal mods delete obvious shit regardless of what the vote was. I don't know what the right answer is, but at this moment, the Portal is absolute garbage and there's nothing anyone but the admins can do about it, and they've made it fairly clear that they don't give a fuck.

To hell with it.


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Emlfuryoflion
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Response to B/P ranks 51+ 2011-03-27 23:27:10 Reply

I have always thought that submissions should be blammed automatically, if they EVER fall below the 1.60 score mark. To avoid exploitation though they should only give blam points to those who voted 0-1 on it with in the first 200 votes.

Look at low some of these scores are. How are these not getting blammed?

http://www.newgrounds.com/portal/list.ph p?page=1926&which=all&type=A&order=vote
http://www.newgrounds.com/portal/list.ph p?page=1925&which=all&type=A&order=vote
http://www.newgrounds.com/portal/list.ph p?page=1924&which=all&type=A&order=vote
http://www.newgrounds.com/portal/list.ph p?page=1923&which=all&type=A&order=vote

Obviously it just keeps going and going. But I feel people would be more likely to blam bad submissions if they knew that even if it passes it can still be blammed at a later point if its score falls far enough.

LittleWashu
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Response to B/P ranks 51+ 2011-03-28 00:34:22 Reply

You know what Bahamut I am not even mad. Every week it was the same thing seeing shit pass judgement when it should have been blammed. Back in the old days when I started at least shit went were it belonged and not on the site.

I watched over the years as many users came and went. Some of which I know for a fact left because of shit like this. The sad part about this is that I actually know a few people who were pulling this shit as well (though I won't say any names either) Now with your retirement of this list I feel I will retire once again from B/P Though if you do see a stolen Flash in the portal and I am online Like a few other said to me PM me a link and I won't mind giving it an honest whistle.

Now for all of you who caused this to happen you should be ashamed of yourselves! Here is a pic of what most of the honest B/pers are doing because of this.

B/P ranks 51+

gamejunkie
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Response to B/P ranks 51+ 2011-03-28 01:42:09 Reply

Tis a sad day for Newgrounds indeed. And I must admit, I feel a little like Jesus, having to suffer for the wrongs of others. I do respect your decision though Bahamut. I do not feel any responsibility for this injustice happening though as I am a regular at the top of the monthly blammers list. But to those few fuck-knuckles who brought about this change. FUCK YOU ALL. I have and will always watch every submission I vote on, and vote accordingly. And I think you all would know from some of my previous (near bannable) posts on this matter, that its high time we brought about the demise of the 'saves rule attitude' of these plebs. Now I'm going all out to bring back the BLAM. If you have'nt visited my userpage already, maybe now is the time you should. It contains a list some of you may be interested in. I will be updating this list more regularly now and would appreciate your input. BLAM HARD people. This list will be sadly missed. Cheers gamejunkie.

Haggard
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Response to B/P ranks 51+ 2011-03-28 01:45:30 Reply

At 3/27/11 03:47 PM, Bahamut wrote: Time to pull the fucking plug!

I hear you and I have to (partly) agree with you. Lately my blamming pace has been horrendous even though I voted 0 on so many crappy submissions. But still I gain much more saves than blams, which is just ridiculous.

I doubt that those save happy whores will stop saving shitty submissions now, but I can understand it's no fun updating this list if you feel you only do it so the save whores out there can feel good about their high saves count.


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Sobolev
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Response to B/P ranks 51+ 2011-03-28 01:55:10 Reply

At 3/27/11 11:27 PM, Emlfuryoflion wrote: I have always thought that submissions should be blammed automatically, if they EVER fall below the 1.60 score mark. To avoid exploitation though they should only give blam points to those who voted 0-1 on it with in the first 200 votes.

Look at low some of these scores are. How are these not getting blammed?

http://www.newgrounds.com/portal/list.ph p?page=1926&which=all&type=A&order=vote
http://www.newgrounds.com/portal/list.ph p?page=1925&which=all&type=A&order=vote
http://www.newgrounds.com/portal/list.ph p?page=1924&which=all&type=A&order=vote
http://www.newgrounds.com/portal/list.ph p?page=1923&which=all&type=A&order=vote

Obviously it just keeps going and going. But I feel people would be more likely to blam bad submissions if they knew that even if it passes it can still be blammed at a later point if its score falls far enough.

it would probably work if all NG users are only allowed to vote on a submission once.
given the current system in which users can vote on a submission multiple times, it is easy to abuse the system by voting zero on submissions every day.

and i feel that i am also partly responsible for having low-quality submission getting through the portal. i used to be more critical about submissions, until seeing more crap passing the judgement. soon became more leniet when voting on them just to gain more protection points (sometimes '5-ing' crappy submissions just to see the impact on the score). gonna try to break the habit.

Emlfuryoflion
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Response to B/P ranks 51+ 2011-03-28 02:31:30 Reply

At 3/28/11 01:55 AM, i-am-ghey wrote:
it would probably work if all NG users are only allowed to vote on a submission once.
given the current system in which users can vote on a submission multiple times, it is easy to abuse the system by voting zero on submissions every day.

If the Flash was worth saving in the first place then there would be enough good votes to prevent it from going away in the first place. If something is just hanging around with a 1.80 score and 300 votes/1000 views after 3-4 years then there is a good chance it probably shouldn't be there if someone winds up trying to vote it out of the system single handedly. If no one is willing to save it by counteracting with 2-5s then that flash has served its purpose and goodbye.

RalphieUJ
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Response to B/P ranks 51+ 2011-03-28 02:57:26 Reply

At 3/27/11 03:47 PM, Bahamut wrote: Time to pull the fucking plug!

As sad as it is, I think someone else will take your spot soon enough to continue the list. On the other hand I do believe that what you said it's completely true, some users need to get over the fact that saving every piece of flash out there is not good for the NG community and the NG site as it portrays a completely different portal compared to a few years back.

I've always been an active blammer but as of late I've been wondering if it's still worth my time to try and blam some flashes that will eventually pass because either people are lazy or just plain stupid.

I support your decision because you do have a valid point, that doesn't mean I'm not sad about it.


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LegolaSS
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Response to B/P ranks 51+ 2011-03-28 03:19:32 Reply

i agree as well... a few years ago i would blam basicly everything (nearly) beacuse i thought it was uter rubbish... but about a year ago i was reading some blogs... and one poped up about the amount of stuff getting saved.... back then my blam to save ratio was around 5:1... that been 5k blams... and 1k saves... *thus the evil aura i put on*... so i thought i was been to hard on people... and changed to allow lesser flashes though.... and now my saves have basicly catched up with my blams... unless there is a dramatic change and EVERYONE (or most people) follows it... you will still be seeing 1+ flashes from 123gamesRus type people posting worthless dressup games that use the same script the last 100 used with very little change... or another ton of get out of the room games... so yeah... after reading though a bit of this thread... im going to revert to been a blam whore... saving only the quality flashes...

i hope everyone who b/p daily will read this thread and understand its not about the points... but about filtering the crap... so from now on... im going to blam everything that i know WOULD have gotten through, and only save something if i think its worth saving... most likey my b/p saves will pullet... but its for a good cause...


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Haggard
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Response to B/P ranks 51+ 2011-03-28 03:29:25 Reply

At 3/28/11 03:19 AM, LegolaSS wrote: unless there is a dramatic change and EVERYONE (or most people) follows it... you will still be seeing 1+ flashes from 123gamesRus type people posting worthless dressup games that use the same script the last 100 used with very little change...

Exactly this is what pisses me off the most. When this 123games-guy first startet posting flashes, I saved them. They wheren't exactly high quality games, but there wasn't anything wrong with them.
But after the 10th dress up game, I really got fed up with this constant stream of shit, and started voting 1 or 0. But sadly, all the flashes are still getting saved... :/


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LittleWashu
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Response to B/P ranks 51+ 2011-03-28 05:09:29 Reply

At 3/28/11 03:29 AM, Haggard wrote:
At 3/28/11 03:19 AM, LegolaSS wrote: unless there is a dramatic change and EVERYONE (or most people) follows it... you will still be seeing 1+ flashes from 123gamesRus type people posting worthless dressup games that use the same script the last 100 used with very little change...
Exactly this is what pisses me off the most. When this 123games-guy first startet posting flashes, I saved them. They wheren't exactly high quality games, but there wasn't anything wrong with them.
But after the 10th dress up game, I really got fed up with this constant stream of shit, and started voting 1 or 0. But sadly, all the flashes are still getting saved... :/

What do you expect from most of the masses? They want their points, and if the bandwagon is to save then that is what they will do. Besides while a lot us know that it is the same shit over and over again with little effort a lot of the massess don't know this or if they do don't care.

But here is something for you that is even worse. I know you have seen it as have I but, the amount of chocobreak flashes that are submitted is just sad. For one Tom said himself that Chocobreak submissions are taboo and count as stolen work. However do the masses care about this? No they don't. They would sooner vote 2-5 to get the protect point then 0 or 1 to blam as well as blow the whistle. I mean come on how in the hell can people knowingly protect something that the creator of NG himself said counts as stolen?

SlashFirestorm
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Response to B/P ranks 51+ 2011-03-28 05:25:45 Reply

Back in my B/P'ing days (and I'm sure it still happens now, though I'm not on the Portal enough to know the prevalence), a lot of shitty flash passed because they had relatively lengthy and well-made preloader/intros...which they used to trick idiots into voting protection on even the shittiest flash. What I did was consider the intro in my voting once...and only once. First time I saw it, I'd include it in my scoring procedure, but after that I would just consider the feature presentation. I'm not active anymore, but if I saw one of those dress-up games, I'd likely give it a passing score as long as it functioned and had at least modest graphics and sound...but only that one time. Every single remake would get a zero from me for having no original content (changing images is not sufficient), period. If the submitter wants me to give them a passing score, then they better make something new for me to vote on.

Unfortunately, since the majority of the Portal-browsing people don't do this...yeah.

Portal mods portal mods portal mods. I don't care if it'd make people bitch about them not getting to decide everything---they've proven that they cannot be trusted to make the final decision on anything. Hell, just two or three people (who've proven they're not idiots) to delete obvious shit would be all it takes, especially since it seems that the daily submit rate has gone down quite a bit from a few years back. Three people watching the Portal when less than 100 submissions are submitted a day? More than enough.

But I don't think that will ever happen. fgfgsdfgsdg


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LittleWashu
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Response to B/P ranks 51+ 2011-03-28 05:55:42 Reply

At 3/28/11 05:25 AM, SlashFirestorm wrote: Back in my B/P'ing days (and I'm sure it still happens now, though I'm not on the Portal enough to know the prevalence), a lot of shitty flash passed because they had relatively lengthy and well-made preloader/intros...which they used to trick idiots into voting protection on even the shittiest flash. What I did was consider the intro in my voting once...and only once. First time I saw it, I'd include it in my scoring procedure, but after that I would just consider the feature presentation. I'm not active anymore, but if I saw one of those dress-up games, I'd likely give it a passing score as long as it functioned and had at least modest graphics and sound...but only that one time. Every single remake would get a zero from me for having no original content (changing images is not sufficient), period. If the submitter wants me to give them a passing score, then they better make something new for me to vote on.

Slash this shit still happens. What is worse is that even unknown people who have at least one or two passing flashes can 9 times out of ten get flash passed even if it is complete shit. Hell I remember earlier in the year the clock crew was doing some flash flood shit and every single one passed most of them where complete shit. But did the masses care Hell no! Just because it was a clock crew member it passed. One of the flashes I remember was just a clock saying "you are gay!" before ending. I voted 0 on that shit but did it get blammed no! It passed with a score above a 2!

I will admit that some of those dress up games fooled me and got my protect vote for it being a functioning game that work with some quality, however after I started seeing the same shit over and over I voted 0 but it didn't do any good what so ever.

As for that flashy intro shit you were talking about the biggest offenders of this was the SS. One example of this was the BPB (Big penis Begaide) Anyone who was voting in the portal in in early 2006 would remember this shit. They used the same fancy intro that ran a minute long to fool the masses into voting on that before the actual flash played. What was worse was that after a while they used the same cartoons without changes and the shit still passed. The only good thing I can say happened was Wade finally deleted the spam account and the series went with it.

Unfortunately, since the majority of the Portal-browsing people don't do this...yeah.

Of course not, they just open the flash vote 2, 3, 4, or 5 and move on without looking at the flash. Some ldiots even say "If it is spam I will vote 2 to lessen the of it passing" (Insert Facepalm here) What they are really saying is that "I am voting 2 because even thought it is spam I don't want to part with a point!"

Portal mods portal mods portal mods. I don't care if it'd make people bitch about them not getting to decide everything---they've proven that they cannot be trusted to make the final decision on anything. Hell, just two or three people (who've proven they're not idiots) to delete obvious shit would be all it takes, especially since it seems that the daily submit rate has gone down quite a bit from a few years back. Three people watching the Portal when less than 100 submissions are submitted a day? More than enough.

I remember Wade talking about adding these in 2006 but I guess the idea never went through. Most likely thinking that these mods will abuse their power. Though it would be nice if the NG staff hired some people they trusted to do this job so they know that it would be fair.

But I don't think that will ever happen. fgfgsdfgsdg

We can dream can't we?

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Response to B/P ranks 51+ 2011-03-28 08:56:16 Reply

At 3/28/11 05:25 AM, SlashFirestorm wrote: Portal mods portal mods portal mods. I don't care if it'd make people bitch about them not getting to decide everything---they've proven that they cannot be trusted to make the final decision on anything. Hell, just two or three people (who've proven they're not idiots) to delete obvious shit would be all it takes, especially since it seems that the daily submit rate has gone down quite a bit from a few years back. Three people watching the Portal when less than 100 submissions are submitted a day? More than enough.

I'll do it. I'll do it hard. If it were up to me, everything under 1.0 right now would be removed, everyone who got a save point for one of them would have it removed, and everyone who voted to blam it would get a blam. Given the current system here, assuming no portal mods, I'd say the best way to change it would be to raise the initial standards so that it needs an average of 2 or higher after 200 votes (since that's what you have to vote to save it anyway), and if it ever drops below 1.5 it's retroactively removed, and if it's retroactively removed quickly enough (say within 50 more votes) then protection points are removed and blam points are awarded to those who voted 0 or 1 during judgment.

I'm actually developing a theme-specific portal of my own right now, and I'm not going to use anything close to a B/P system. Instead, I'm using a "proximity to final rating" system. Rather than getting points on a pass/fail basis, it will be based on how close you were to the final rating of the submission once it left the judgment period. So using the NG system, if you voted 5 to pass the flash but it only passed with a 2.12, you don't get anything for it. If you voted 1 but it passed anyway with a 1.67, you get a point for doing an accurate job of judging its quality. If it gets blammed at 1.54 and you voted 2, you get a point. I haven't decided what I'll call it yet, but I'm leaning toward something like "Reputation" or "Judgment". I don't think it would work on NG, but given my expected user contributions I think it will work fine for my target audience.

As for how to have portal mods without risking an abuse of power, I think the thing to do is have 6-8 of them who are trusted, and if 3 of them vote blam then the submission is blammed after receiving 200 votes regardless of score. After passing, flash mods would have a button that essentially says "This is shit, get it out of my portal," and enough of them pressing that button would retroactively blam it. What to do about blams and protects in that case would require tweaking and judgment by people who know more than I about such things, but I'd say it would depend on the submission's score at the time it's retroblammed: if it's below some threshold, blams and protects are reassigned. At least, that's my first idea.


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Response to B/P ranks 51+ 2011-03-28 09:52:30 Reply

At 3/27/11 04:22 PM, Coop wrote: Who's with us?

It's sad enough to have to agree with his statement as it is, so I'm on board. I may be a few spots beneath you, but my effort will be identical to try and make sure not a single unworthy submission passes.


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Response to B/P ranks 51+ 2011-03-28 12:56:28 Reply

At 3/28/11 05:09 AM, LittleWashu wrote:
At 3/28/11 03:29 AM, Haggard wrote:
Exactly this is what pisses me off the most. When this 123games-guy first startet posting flashes, I saved them. They wheren't exactly high quality games, but there wasn't anything wrong with them.
But after the 10th dress up game, I really got fed up with this constant stream of shit, and started voting 1 or 0. But sadly, all the flashes are still getting saved... :/
What do you expect from most of the masses? They want their points, and if the bandwagon is to save then that is what they will do. Besides while a lot us know that it is the same shit over and over again with little effort a lot of the massess don't know this or if they do don't care.

The amusing part of this is that you seem to make a distinction between "the masses" and "us" while clearly if there is any difference at all, it's hazy at best. It's already been said that many of the active users in the upper regions of this list are to blame for poor/no judgment, and the top 50 can hardly be considered the average user. If anything, the masses are to be blamed less since they may vote poorly because they are not aware of the problem, while "we", on the other hand...

And you say it like we're above them, too. To me - and this is just a matter of opinion so don't take it personally - the term "masses" makes it seem like they are a lower order of user, while you are a superior user because you possess knowledge about how the portal works. I know you don't think that but putting the blame on others, even if done rightly so, doesn't do much good.

Fuck it, I'm sick of the blame game and I'm sick of making this problem seem like more of a big deal than it really is. Nobody's making you watch the shit that gets protected. Better this than a decent flash getting blammed. Yes, things should be blammed that aren't, but protected or blammed, a bad submission will disappear into the abyss of Less-Than-500-Views Purgatory.


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Response to B/P ranks 51+ 2011-03-28 14:36:57 Reply

I gave up with B/P a long time ago, when the whores stop I will return (never).


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Response to B/P ranks 51+ 2011-03-28 15:08:13 Reply

Perhaps if we take charge of the portal and use out high voting powers to all do right Bahamut will come back. We can change things and we can take charge of this portal. I myself have been quite vocal about all the pure trash passing through at an alarming rate. I know I am not on this list yet but it has been a goal of mine for quite sometime. I am in the top 400 and I have been B/P'ing at an alarming rate.

Now, since some people ruined it I will never be on the list that I worked hard and invested many hours to get onto.

I don't blame our dragon pal and I know where he is coming from. Seeing KK shit passing pisses me off as well.

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Response to B/P ranks 51+ 2011-03-28 16:44:09 Reply

I never thought i'd see the day that this list would go on a hiatus. But at least it is for a really good reason. I can't say I have the best voting habits but I only get about 1/3 of the blams that I actually vote 0 or 1 on. Sometimes seeing broken games or pointlessly short loops pass. I'd like to see an improvement in the portal as much as most people but only time will really tell and maybe Bahamut's decision to stop updating the list is what will kick start it.

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Response to B/P ranks 51+ 2011-03-28 19:18:20 Reply

In related news, the fuck is up with all the linkbucks.com submissions recently? The Tau Troops submissions (4 so far) are nothing but crappy loops with linkbucks links embedded in the video. How much do you want to bet at least a couple of them pass?


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Response to B/P ranks 51+ 2011-03-28 19:43:32 Reply

At 3/28/11 07:18 PM, DiMono wrote: In related news, the fuck is up with all the linkbucks.com submissions recently? The Tau Troops submissions (4 so far) are nothing but crappy loops with linkbucks links embedded in the video. How much do you want to bet at least a couple of them pass?

Well, I've done my bit to prevent them, so everyone else better follow suit, if they're with us. We cna win this fight!


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Response to B/P ranks 51+ 2011-03-28 20:13:43 Reply

I had a brain fart and voted 5 on 1 of them but once I caught my mistake I voted 0 on the rest.

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Response to B/P ranks 51+ 2011-03-28 20:23:49 Reply

Having all of us continue to vote the honest way won't do anything to help the portal since "most" of the people that post here vote the right way anyway. The majority of the problem will never even see this thread. Even if they did they wouldn't be able to read the amount of words in anyone of the posts to comprehend that they were a problem.

Somehow you need to get it out to the majority, the actual problem, but it's nearly impossible to do something like that.


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Response to B/P ranks 51+ 2011-03-28 20:31:16 Reply

At 3/28/11 08:23 PM, Corky wrote:
Somehow you need to get it out to the majority, the actual problem, but it's nearly impossible to do something like that.

If I had flash on my laptop I would probably attempt to put this in flash format so users could read it and maybe just possibly start to vote a bit better. as for the Tau flashes. I didn't even bother with them since they have a lot of people just coauthoring each other with crap. I hit the 0 on them, doubt it will do anything though.

on the other hand, I felt happy when I hit 0 on two submissions and saw they were blammed.

Wish I had taken a photo of it.


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DiMono
DiMono
  • Member since: Sep. 8, 2004
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Response to B/P ranks 51+ 2011-03-29 08:26:19 Reply

http://www.newgrounds.com/portal/view/565698Stuff like this is the real problem with people just blindly voting 5. The game didn't even work, all that happened was a white screen apparently, and it passed anyway; it was removed by the author after the fact. This is the stuff that really pisses me off, when things that don't even work make it through judgment.


Deploy the... it's a yellow button... it's usually flashing... it makes the engines go... whoosh!

Please help fund my horror novel. I'll love you forever.

jonthomson
jonthomson
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Response to B/P ranks 51+ 2011-03-29 10:01:09 Reply

Can we all vote low on the five or six people that seem to submit really crappy dressup games every single day?

DiMono
DiMono
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Response to B/P ranks 51+ 2011-03-29 10:04:55 Reply

They tend to pass with scores over 2.4, I seriously doubt we'd be able to get any blammed. What's needed is a change in the passing grades, so rather than 1.6 it actually takes an average of 2.0 to pass. Then we'll be able to have the effect we want.


Deploy the... it's a yellow button... it's usually flashing... it makes the engines go... whoosh!

Please help fund my horror novel. I'll love you forever.

DiMono
DiMono
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Response to B/P ranks 51+ 2011-03-29 10:57:58 Reply

Alright, I've written about it in my news area. Link as many people as you can to it, and maybe we'll actually be able to turn this boat around. Basically, that news entry and things like it need as much exposure to the masses as possible, so every little link helps.

I wonder, if enough of us sent it to Tom, would he put it on the front page...


Deploy the... it's a yellow button... it's usually flashing... it makes the engines go... whoosh!

Please help fund my horror novel. I'll love you forever.

DiMono
DiMono
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Response to B/P ranks 51+ 2011-03-29 12:16:29 Reply

I'm now upset. This exited judgment at 0.62. It was listed as on the verge of death with over 200 votes in. I can't even think of a way for this to have passed, but there it is.

I hate people.


Deploy the... it's a yellow button... it's usually flashing... it makes the engines go... whoosh!

Please help fund my horror novel. I'll love you forever.

Nijsse
Nijsse
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Response to B/P ranks 51+ 2011-03-29 13:05:11 Reply

At 3/29/11 12:16 PM, DiMono wrote: http://www.newgrounds.com/portal/view/56 6038
I'm now upset. This exited judgment at 0.62. It was listed as on the verge of death with over 200 votes in. I can't even think of a way for this to have passed, but there it is.

I hate people.

Haha, I followed that submission too after voting 0 on it. I think this is a perfect example of the discussion that has been going on for the last few days. It's time for some changes!