Ok, here's my take on the whole situation:

This idea is great, and sorely needed in what has definitely evolved into a Flash community. I know that there is a great deal of collaboration going on, since many people are great artists, but can't script and vice-verse, and because sometimes a project is just too big for one person. I think this will also encourage more people to collaborate, since they can now get official credit for what they do.

I think that, if there are multiple authors, it should list the submitter only on the movie's page, and then have a link below that labelled "Co-authors" or some such, and clicking that would open a new window listing all of the co-authors. This allows you to have many without making a mess of the layout.

I don't think that there should be too low of a limit on the number of co-authors, but I suppose 5 would be a good number. I mean, if someone just drew a background for you, they shouldn't be getting co-author.

The idea for an approved collaborator list is definitely necessary in order to prevent collaboration spamming.

As for how a collaborator could be added to a movie submission, I'd suggest that you'd submit the movie with a checkbox labelled "Collaboration" checked off, and then after you've filled out all of the other submission information and clicked "Submit" you get a dialog that would allow to type in an NG User's name, or select from a dropdown the name of someone you've collaborated with in the past, and click "Add Collaborator". You'd repeat this for each collaborator until the list was done, and then actually Submit the movie to the portal.

As for awards, all co-authors should receive them. Abuse would be limited under the logic that the people who usually win these awards are not the people prone to abusing the system. And for user ratings, it should affect all the authors' ratings equally. If you're going to put your name to something, you're accepting responsibility for it.

You should not be able to add/remove co-authors after a certain amount of votes on the movie. This prevents people from taking their names off of bad Flash they submitted to bring their average up afterwards, and prevents people from bribing others into adding their names later on to a highly-rated submission to bring their average up, or get awards on their account.

At 12/13/02 11:13 AM, sizzler wrote: (the title of each classification is important - If it were "Major Contribution" and "Minor Contribution", those with a "Minor" would not feel very important.)

... So, a visit to Alien Hominid would look like this:

Co-Author: Synj
Co-Author: Tom Fulp

And a visit to a movie by Section8Studios would look like this:

Co-Author: Ben Spurgin
Co-Author: Damian Martins
Co-Author: Todd Madere

And a visit to a clock movie could look like this:

Author: GrapesClock
Contributor: AppleClock
Contributor: OrangeClock
Contributor: Olskoo

I agree w/ sizzler's system completely... this way, collaborators receive proper recognition according to the amount of work put forth. Great suggestion sizzler

OK Tom, I think this is a great idea, But again you are doing too much too fast. Everything has been changing lately, some for the better and some for worse. It is a great idea, just try and take it slow so it doesnt disrupt any thing else.

good idea powa 2 da ppl!!!

I think this is a very good idea. Personally myself and my good friend have been working on a game for some time now. We work and wrok until be get bored then weeks later we come back to it and apply fresh new ideas. All the while I've been wondering to myself who is going to get to submit it? Justin (my good friend that I mentioned earlier) might have a problem with it b/c he is doing pretty much all of the action scripting... but I have been doing all the animations and all of the art work. Now if you aply this new system it will surely take the stress off of who gets to submit it. I think this will raise the bar yet again Tom. I'm am 100% for the addition.

I am glad to see that your are getting closer to releasing a system that grants credit where it is desereved. I have held of submitting flash because I would like credit to go to both me and my co-creator. Your ideas sound great so far. It really sounds like you have thought this out. Which I am sure is nothing new for you guys. I understand that you have to take time to think of all possible conflicts before rolling out a new system and for the most part you do a great job. Newgrounds users are always there to help point out any new problems that do or may arise. Congradulation on another great system and I look forward to it's release.

You should remove the "show more submission by this author" if there is more than 1 author.
Maybe you should use something like this:

Other submissions by:
MisterMarkos - Wade Fulp
Tom Fulp - Strawberryclock
-------------------------

And when clicking an author's name the drop down menu changes to the one you selected.

At 12/13/02 11:36 AM, KnottsberryClock wrote: I agree with Sizzler's idea, however I thought it would be a good idea to customise the titles according to what each person did. For example:

Original Idea: StrawberryClock
Graphics: OrangeClock
Backgrounds: B

Excluding music and audio of course.

I Agree with that notion. *puffs bubble pipe*

Great Idea, Tom!

Solid idea! As I read your post, I began to think of folks miscrediting other authors and sabotaging them by attaching their names to BLAM fodder, but then I got to your "sign-off" system and it answered my question. I like the "team leader" idea since it keeps only one cook in the kitchen. I also dig the freedom to choose between either having the project embargoed or instantly uploaded since it squashes any problems that may arise right out of the box. It's a very clear and well thought out system! Good luck with it!

You pretty much have a good system planed out well, but here are a few augmentations.

Job title for each author:
Two text fields per author. One is the user name, the other is the job name. So like: AnamanFan | Programmer

Auto-confirm setting:
Per user account, give me the option to auto-conferm from a list of users I state. Like let's say I approve of TomFlup's submissions to be OKed all the time, but for everyone else I'd like to approve first. When TomFlup puts me in as an author, it's approved instantly. But when PicoRocks claims my authorship, I want prior approval.

Inform me when someone claims my authorship:
When someone puts down my user name, send me an e-mail saying so. That or make a notice on the front page when I log in.

All I can think of at the moment. I really like the idea in general and would like to see the above added in some how.

ok well this may not help but y dont you just have the main author get the credit but do it the way big company stile flok do it, like this: "flash maker bob and asoiates" or "flash maker bob and company", "flash maker inc." etc. ya get what im saying then you can give credit indvidually by simply having the people that anamated the flash include there names in the opeaning or closing credits idk mabie if your familyar with the MLA forat for citation documenting you can do what they do for more than one author .......DRINK MY SALMAN SPUNK!

Sounds like a great idea, what about a system where the person auctually submitting the movie can pick a title for themself and whoever else they might be submitting it with e.g Programming Tom Fulp, Art by Synj.

I don't agree with all the ass-smoochers. This idea sucks. People also fill out credits like "Section8Studios" and "AWE STUDIOS" for a reason. They don't like spending 20 goddamn minutes filling out forms. They have already given credits in the movie. They also use collaborative names like that to describe the creators as a non-partisan whole. Suggestion: stop thinking about radical system changes and focus on something you really need, like a decent server, or finishing Pico2. I think the idea blows and caters to greedy whiny little bitches.

At 12/14/02 03:43 PM, ScrunchMuppet wrote: People also fill out credits like "Section8Studios" and "AWE STUDIOS" for a reason.

Actually, Ben Spurgin of Section8Studios already expressed his support of this system. As for the "reason" you mentioned above, they do it because the multi-author system isn't available, and these group accounts make it easier to express credit given to a group, instead of an individual. The multi-author idea would make it easier to do this. And as stated earlier, all authors get credit, so they receive any portal awards a group submission receives. And Pico 2 isn't a high priority, it's a fucking Flash game, and the server issue isn't as bad as you think, lately anyways. Besides, improving the site and making things more user-friendly results in more traffic, which results in more banner clicks and/or pop-up loads, which brings in more money, which makes the purchasing of a new server possible. But, whatever. I don't really care.

It doesn't really have anything to do with the co-author system being discussed, but since audio credit came up(sorta), why not have a section in profiles for movies where the user is credited for audio support, or something to that affect(effect? affect? effect?).

And get liljim to look into whatever it is that keeps changing submissions' audio credit to Bentframe, that is so annoying.

Hey Tom, are you going to add some more changes?

ah. this will come in handy for you and Jose Ortiz.

(when pico 2 is finished)

OHHHH WAIT! you're never going to finish it!

too busy with synj.

please tom, finish pico 2... i need it, i'm a pico addict, if i don't have pico i die.

...please?

soon!?

Yah! I understand this situation that you say!!!

I think that it's a great idea--especially considering how long credits lists have to be. Keep up the good work.

Perhaps we can take this idea and expand upon it to assure that all parties concerned are satisfied. The idea of giving credit to those who contributed their share of the work to make a flick is an excellent idea. It promotes more team work on the the side of the user, and could promise more quality content.

The prime reason why this is a good idea is because the user is given an OPTION, which is a very good thing to have in just about anything. I paticularly like how they can choose to either confirm the validity of the other author's contribution, or to just post it then and there. Then we, as viewers, can open up the film, and be able to assess whether or not this was a team effort.

If the submission was confrimed, then obviously it was a team effort. If it wasn't, and the credits are given in the movie's profile, then it will give the users just enough doubt to decide whether or not the credited authors did in fact have a hand in creating the film in question.

For example, if you were to open Alien Hominid, and you saw both Synj and Tom's name in the movie's profile, and then played it, you would know that yes, this is Tom's style, and he obviously had a hand in its creation. However, if you were to open another film entitled "POO POO kacky head", and Tom was listed in the credits WITHOUT his comfirmation, then the question of "Did Tom help this author out?" should be answered rather easily.

I like this idea. Go for it.

On a random note, we need to remove osme of this old shit fro mthe front page liek skullkid. the "Create a ride was on there for abotu a year be4 it went bye-bey. mayeb this does too.

Good idea, I've made graphics files for other animations and revieved no credit, your idea solves that :)

it sounds like it will work, but what about existing content?

NOOOO! thats crap, there shouldnt be a leader of the team, the last thing a team needs is an ego-maniac at the helm. if he gets the shits he can remove ppl from the credits! the multi author thing is good, but leader thing is crap!

I still think that, that is phat.

At 12/14/02 01:22 AM, Andrew_Traviss wrote:sum shit

you are queer

Even though i haven't sorted through the 90+ comments on this board to see if my request has been said already, here it goes. Not that I'd be using this feature, but I think it would be a great idea if people could register a team account, It'd basicly be just like the current system you're planning. When someone using the team account submit's an entry, it has to get approved by everyone else in the team. so the entry would be put on hold untill the other group members approve of the work (that way someone won't submit something shitty that mis-represents the group as a whole). with the "team account" system, a group of people can have a Team profile and a listing of things that the team has made (with the system Tom is planning, it will have what team has made, along with things each other has created seperate from the team). ANYWAYS, that's what i think would be really neat, but it calls for what I think would be a lot of programming, for a small group of people using it, but i could be wrong. Anyways, thanks for reading my post.

Oh yeah, and with the "Team Account" suggestion I had, it would stop people from pissing you off by saying that you worked on the movie too. there probably would be a team admin person that made the initial account and added/removed people when neccessary. There would be a confirmination thing on the teammate's end of the account, so people don't signup people that don't want to be appart of the team. AND within each teammember's public profile, there could be a link to which team's they are apart of. anyways, i think that's all i can think of for my team account suggestion, i hope you consider it Tom!

I hope I have described this well. I'm now opening the floor to comments. LET YOUR IDEAS AND OPINIONS BE HEARD!

It seems like the entire process has been thought out thoroughly. (I didn't consider the possibility of people submitting something awful and crediting it as a collaborative effort, but it WOULD happen.)
.
Everything about your idea seems to be good. Now in regards to the embargo question, I think it could go either way. Unless you suspect that movies might be delayed by anything more than two days for all of the contributors to sign it off, go with the embargo.
.
Now consider these worst-case scenarios:
.
It is possible that some collaborators do not presently have an account with NG. Will the team leader be informed that there is no way for the movie to be signed off until the collaborator creates an account? An embargo in this case would prevent the movie from reaching the portal for a while. (Until the collaborator created an account.)
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Contributors may forget that there is a movie that they need to sign off. Will they be notified that some flash is waiting for their confirmation? How will it be done? Email? Log-in notice?
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After thinking about it...I suggest that the embargo idea be scrapped. Collaborative works tend to be the best stuff, and it would be awful if it became a chore for people to submit it. Get it to the portal faster, and let the credit appear after the co-authors claim it.

hmm interesting