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Controversy, et cetera

8,660 Views | 134 Replies
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Controversy, et cetera 2001-10-11 00:14:36


I wanted to clarify something since I am sure I pissed off some people in my last post... I have always been a big Jane Fonda critic, and was being kinda silly when I said I had to rethink my position on her. It was ok for her to disagree with the Vietnam War, but some of the things she did were horrible and she should not be allowed to live in America.

BUT... This made me realize that we have a perfect discussion on our hands! Forget Hanoi Jane for a moment and tell me your thoughts on the Vietnam War. Do you think it was justified? What are the reasons? Newgrounds has a good military following, so I am interested in hearing their thoughts.

Now is a great time to discuss this, since many people question our current situation in Afghanistan. Will people call this "another Vietnam?" I believe our reasons this time around are much more just, but I am interested in hearing your feedback.

Don't forget to check out the cool artwork that I bought while I was in Vietnam. Isn't it great? I took a picture of me and the artist, so assuming it didn't get fried by airport x-rays, I will be posting it soon! Like you care!

Also go buy a Newgrounds bear stein, or other assorted merchandise at cafepress.com!

Key discussion topics:
1) Was the Vietnam War justified? Why or why not?
2) Will we ever regret our war with the Taliban?
3) What SHOULD we do with Jane Fonda?


Working on Nightmare Cops!

BBS Signature

Response to Controversy, et cetera 2001-10-11 00:20:02


At 10/11/01 12:14 AM, TomFulp wrote: I wanted to clarify something since I am sure I pissed off some people in my last post... I have always been a big Jane Fonda critic, and was being kinda silly when I said I had to rethink my position on her. It was ok for her to disagree with the Vietnam War, but some of the things she did were horrible and she should not be allowed to live in America.

BUT... This made me realize that we have a perfect discussion on our hands! Forget Hanoi Jane for a moment and tell me your thoughts on the Vietnam War. Do you think it was justified? What are the reasons? Newgrounds has a good military following, so I am interested in hearing their thoughts.

Now is a great time to discuss this, since many people question our current situation in Afghanistan. Will people call this "another Vietnam?" I believe our reasons this time around are much more just, but I am interested in hearing your feedback.

Don't forget to check out the cool artwork that I bought while I was in Vietnam. Isn't it great? I took a picture of me and the artist, so assuming it didn't get fried by airport x-rays, I will be posting it soon! Like you care!

Also go buy a Newgrounds bear stein, or other assorted merchandise at cafepress.com!

Key discussion topics:
1) Was the Vietnam War justified? Why or why not?
2) Will we ever regret our war with the Taliban?
3) What SHOULD we do with Jane Fonda?

First 1 2 answer... :-)
1) I dunno Y the Vietnam war started
2)I don't think so
3)YOU SHOULD KILL HER!!!
-|Gforcer|-

Response to Controversy, et cetera 2001-10-11 00:21:12


3) What SHOULD we do with Jane Fonda?

We should tie Jane Fonda to a nuke and launch it at the Taliban.

Response to Controversy, et cetera 2001-10-11 00:31:46


I think the war vs the Taliban will be regretted, namely because it's not so much that the U.S. and others are commiting any grievous act against humanity, it's that we're going to end up getting those psychos we're trying to eradicate to get pretty damn desperate. And when that happens, they're going to resort to even less savory tactics than slamming 747s into large populated buildings.

Response to Controversy, et cetera 2001-10-11 00:40:51


Key discussion topics:
1) Was the Vietnam War justified? Why or why not?
2) Will we ever regret our war with the Taliban?
3) What SHOULD we do with Jane Fonda?

1) Yes, otherwise we would be communist pigdogs today, or something.
2) No, I think the general consensus is that they don't value human life, they lie, murder, sneak, steal, kamakazee and are generally bad ppl.
3) Workout.

Response to Controversy, et cetera 2001-10-11 00:45:34


The Vietnam War was just an excuse for us to-as George Carlin would put it-flaunt our cocks(represented by our weapons) on a third world country that we were exploiting for our own economic gain. It failed the same way the British failed to defeat us: guerilla warfare. They just sniped us to death in dense jungles. And the fact that we re-located villagers to get to the rebels only made the villagers support the Cong even more. Despite what you may have seen in Full Metal Jacket, our soldiers didn't "win", by beating a few soldiers in some old office buildings. They didn't volunteer. They were drafted, which is what I hope never happens in this case.

As for regrets, it is possible. Even if you kill the Taliban and Osama, they could have kids and family members who somehow get revenge, and keep us within the cycle of violence. Terrorism is like the Drug War and the Cold War before it: something you can't really destroy. You can't destroy terrorists, end the production or distribution of drugs, and stop communist regimes. All you can do is fight the causes of these problems, and hope for the best.

As for Jane Fonda, Ted Turner did what every guy probably would've done with her: Fucked her til she gets ugly, and divorce her.

Response to Controversy, et cetera 2001-10-11 00:51:19


afganistan and vietnam are two seperate things. in vietnam, the vietamiese did not attack us. so there for are attacks are almost unjustifiable for fear of communisim sperading. afganistan is a different story. they attacked us, and may innocent americans died including some of my family. justice must be done. calling the attacks off would be an outrage. for all of those who think we should withdraw and hold peace, i have one thing to say: fuck you. you don't know what is like to have a tradegy like this to personally affect you.

Response to Controversy, et cetera 2001-10-11 00:53:54


At 10/11/01 12:14 AM, TomFulp wrote: ...Also go buy a Newgrounds bear stein, or other assorted merchandise at cafepress.com!

Key discussion topics:
1) Was the Vietnam War justified? Why or why not?
2) Will we ever regret our war with the Taliban?
3) What SHOULD we do with Jane Fonda?

1) For the time, I think the Vietnam war was justified. During the mid 60's-70's, communism posed a real threat to American freedom. We needed some solid action against the spread of communism, to show we weren't going to give in, and the Vietnam war was it. In retrospect, it's obvious that the didn't accomplish a hell of a lot of good. but our actions and intentions were totally justified.
2) I don't think we'll really regret this war with the Taliban. Oh sure, some civilian lives will be lost, and that is always lamentable, but the projected Afghan losses pale in comparison to the 5000-some dead from the WTC collapse. Like the communist "plague" of the 50's-80's, international terrorism poses a real and deadly threat to democracy. Anyone who believes otherwise should take a look at recent events, not to mention the embassy bombings, the Cole explosion, and countless other incidents. Like Vietnam, this Taliban war may be ultimately futile to stop terrorism, but it may at least stem the tide. At the least, taking a futile action is a lot better than just taking it up the ass.
3) I don't have a clue what you're talking about with Jane Fonda.

Two other points. One, just what is a "BEAR stein"? Something to keep a grizzly in? Sorry, just being grammar picky. Secondly, I think those oil paintings you bought are ROCKING. The one I put below is my fav. Good buy, man!

Controversy, et cetera

Response to Controversy, et cetera 2001-10-11 01:11:24


I just read yesterday's response... Guess I'm out of the "loop" but I don't get the comment about Jane Fonda. Oh well... I just finished reading Timequake a month or so ago... I didn't think it was very good especially considering Vonegut's past books. It's an awsome concept, even the format is original, but I just don't think it compares to something like Slaughterhouse 5. But that's just me.

Response to Controversy, et cetera 2001-10-11 01:33:28


At 10/11/01 12:14 AM, TomFulp wrote: I wanted to clarify something since I am sure I pissed off some people in my last post... I have always been a big Jane Fonda critic, and was being kinda silly when I said I had to rethink my position on her. It was ok for her to disagree with the Vietnam War, but some of the things she did were horrible and she should not be allowed to live in America.

BUT... This made me realize that we have a perfect discussion on our hands! Forget Hanoi Jane for a moment and tell me your thoughts on the Vietnam War. Do you think it was justified? What are the reasons? Newgrounds has a good military following, so I am interested in hearing their thoughts.

Now is a great time to discuss this, since many people question our current situation in Afghanistan. Will people call this "another Vietnam?" I believe our reasons this time around are much more just, but I am interested in hearing your feedback.

Don't forget to check out the cool artwork that I bought while I was in Vietnam. Isn't it great? I took a picture of me and the artist, so assuming it didn't get fried by airport x-rays, I will be posting it soon! Like you care!

Also go buy a Newgrounds bear stein, or other assorted merchandise at cafepress.com!

Key discussion topics:
1) Was the Vietnam War justified? Why or why not?
2) Will we ever regret our war with the Taliban?
3) What SHOULD we do with Jane Fonda?

Response to Controversy, et cetera 2001-10-11 01:55:28


1) Was the Vietnam War justified? Why or why not?
2) Will we ever regret our war with the Taliban?
3) What SHOULD we do with Jane Fonda?

---
*crawls out from under rock*
Who is Jane Fonda?

Response to Controversy, et cetera 2001-10-11 01:56:56


1) Was the Vietnam War justified? Why or why not?
2) Will we ever regret our war with the Taliban?
3) What SHOULD we do with Jane Fonda?

1:Half and half because we were protecting innocents, but it wasn't our fight....we ended up wasting millions of lives..

2:Dunno, too early to tell

3:Make her the next target in an Assassin Flash Game

Response to Controversy, et cetera 2001-10-11 01:58:58


Point One: This sure as hell is not another Vietnam... we had no business there... we were just under the infulence of the strains of McCarthyism (the weeding out of Communists all over the globe). Another point making this not another Vietnam War is that the Vietnamese did not attack us on our shores. I mean shit... why spread capitalism when it in itself is a failure? Point Two:
I dont think we are going to regret a war on a the taliban... because they seem damn proud of themselbes and arent regreting killing up to 10000 people... fuck that 6000 number... thats optimism... not everyone is on a fucking missing list. If we dont kill off the taliban now... then what? I mean... war is ugly... and it is the last thing that any conscious person wants... . but they are heartless enough to kill any one of us because they presume all westerners are Christians... and I take that personally because I hate the bitter hypocrisy of Christianity ... and Jane Fonda... where the hell did that come in?

Response to Controversy, et cetera 2001-10-11 01:59:52


At 10/11/01 12:51 AM, Jam0ke wrote: afganistan and vietnam are two seperate things. in vietnam, the vietamiese did not attack us. so there for are attacks are almost unjustifiable for fear of communisim sperading. afganistan is a different story. they attacked us, and may innocent americans died including some of my family. justice must be done. calling the attacks off would be an outrage. for all of those who think we should withdraw and hold peace, i have one thing to say: fuck you. you don't know what is like to have a tradegy like this to personally affect you.

---
My condolences on your loss....
Who knows, the two options here are to retaliate or to just continue on as if nothing happened..

Both options could be consequential...

If we don't retaliate, they will see us as pussies and goody-two-shoes and just go open season on us and kill whoever they damn well please. Ain't gonna have it.

Attacking them could cause an even greater war, but hopefully we can snuff terrorism out like a cheap crap candle and make sure that nothing like this EVER happens again.

Response to Controversy, et cetera 2001-10-11 02:04:47


Compdude: To combat communism, we use fascism?! Because those were the types of dictatorships we allowed in many countries. Read between the lines. It's not about ideology, but about economics. That's what it always is. Hitler wouldn't have been able to get away with blaming the Jews if Germany's economy wasn't fucked. That's what shrewd statesmen do. Blame society's problems on some irrational force; thus, they motivate people to combat that force, and "boost" the economy. That's why we had so many nukes. Because corporations like Lockheed make money with them.

Response to Controversy, et cetera 2001-10-11 02:07:06


3) What SHOULD we do with Jane Fonda?

3:Make her the next target in an Assassin Flash Game

Brap on! I'd play that! But someone good should do it.... Im looking your way Tom (just kidding... if you want, that would be cool)

Response to Controversy, et cetera 2001-10-11 02:29:38


1) Was the Vietnam War justified? Why or why not?
2) Will we ever regret our war with the Taliban?
3) What SHOULD we do with Jane Fonda?

I grew up with a Vietnam veteran for a father, he would break my neck with one of those special Marine maneuvers if I said it was justified. He thinks the Vietnam war was a method of population control by the United States, that's why the only people who were drafted were either poor or a minority. That aside though, the Vietnam war was pretty much frivolous. I've done numerous reports on it for school assignments and I'm still not sure why we were over there in the first place, but I guess "combating Communism" is as close as I'll ever get. Anyone who's ever read Marx's Communist Manifesto knows there was nothing evil or infectous about it. The book was just a collection of rehashed Greek philosophies geared towards establishing a more utopian way of life. The eventual collapse of communism was obvious from the begining, we never needed to kill people to facilitate that.

2)Now that we are "combatting Terrorism" and bombing a small Asian country, of course some will want to compare it with the Vietnam war (wtf is the name of this new war btw?). As long as we keep our soldiers away from torching villages and raping peasants, any comparison between the current times and the Vietnam war should be minimal at best.
As long as we don't eradicate entire countries and try to rearrange these people way of life to much, any feelings of regret will probably remain squarely on the shoulders of the terrorists. We need to remove the cancers and the let the flesh heal itself.

3) As far as Jane Fonda goes, anyone who has stretched their fifteen minutes of fame as far out as she has (what is she, like 60?) must be fundamentally evil or involved in some kind of contract with satan. But as for what do to her...perhaps a "Club a Fonda" game should be in the works...

Response to Controversy, et cetera 2001-10-11 04:04:58


Who is Jane Fonda?? The name sounds familiar...but I always just thought she was an actress or something?? lol

Response to Controversy, et cetera 2001-10-11 05:25:27


Even if the 'nam war wasnt justifiable then i dont think the political urge for war
(or stoping the red menace) could have been stopped. I agree in that its a big
discusion, and propably also due to the big amount of covert ops that we dont
know about.

Did they really show Diplomacy on TV? Cool.......

Response to Controversy, et cetera 2001-10-11 06:04:46


:1) For the time, I think the Vietnam war was justified. During the mid 60's-70's, communism posed a real threat to American freedom. We needed some solid action against the spread of communism, to show we weren't going to give in, and the Vietnam war was it. In retrospect, it's obvious that the didn't accomplish a hell of a lot of good. but our actions and intentions were totally justified.

You stupid stupid moron! The Vietnamese War is the least justified war in modern history! Was the will of the people in Vietam (ie to have comunism) posing a threat to American Freedom? what bullshit! If we Swedes think American cultural domination is a threat to Swedish way of living, would we attack you then? You seem to think that the USA is the Mother of all countries, the World Police who can do whatever it wants to whomever. You are so wrong. What if China started attacking Mongolia, because they have developed a Domino theory stating that since Mongolia dropped communism other countries may do so to? You Americans almost never have any perspective to anything, all you do is saying: "Well as everybody knows, the US of A is the best country ever, and we hvave to protect us no matter the cost (for the defender)". That's what's making people all over the world hate you and making 9-11 possible. I agree with Noam Chomsky, youäve got yourself to blame. You still got to pay for what you did in Vietnam, and the WTC is a step in the right direction! OK I don't really mean that. But almost.

Response to Controversy, et cetera 2001-10-11 06:11:21


Key discussion topics:
1) Was the Vietnam War justified? Why or why not?
2) Will we ever regret our war with the Taliban?
3) What SHOULD we do with Jane Fonda?

1)u dint know what you mean But we (america,australia ETC) should not have gottem invovled
2)OW HELL NO
3)ASSASSIN....Feat Mr Garbage Ladin

Controversy, et cetera

Response to Controversy, et cetera 2001-10-11 06:12:19


Key discussion topics:
1) Was the Vietnam War justified? Why or why not?
2) Will we ever regret our war with the Taliban?
3) What SHOULD we do with Jane Fonda?

1) I dont really think so..it was pointless for us to go there and loose so many troops
2) Hell no..in fact..we should nuke the bastards...given the chance i bet they would do it to us
3) make her veary on mission on assassin :-D

Response to Controversy, et cetera 2001-10-11 08:19:29


At 10/11/01 01:11 AM, PoetDiva wrote: I just read yesterday's response... Guess I'm out of the "loop" but I don't get the comment about Jane Fonda. Oh well... I just finished reading Timequake a month or so ago... I didn't think it was very good especially considering Vonegut's past books. It's an awsome concept, even the format is original, but I just don't think it compares to something like Slaughterhouse 5. But that's just me.

The weird thing to me is that I have read a TON of Vonnegut books, and Slaughterhouse 5 has always been one of my least favorites... It is different from his other stuff. Time Quake is scattered, but filled with a lot of very quotable material. I wish I had highlighted funny remarks throughout as I read it. :)

-Tom


Working on Nightmare Cops!

BBS Signature

Response to Controversy, et cetera 2001-10-11 08:23:44


youäve got yourself to blame. You still got to pay for what you did in Vietnam, and the WTC is a step in the right direction! OK I don't really mean that. But almost.

--ok, i don't know where your'e from, but in my society over 5000 (as in FIVE THOUSAND PLUS) deaths in completely unacceptable.pardon my hatred for your post when i say wholeheartedly, FUCK YOU AND YOUR OPINION, airstrikes on MILITARY ONLY TARGETS should be the BARE MINIMUM that the perpetrating country should pay for the murder of innocent civilians(with the exception of pentagon employees, though those victims were certainly not posing a threat to anyone filing paperwork). true, Bin Laden denies responsability, (and wouldnt it suck if we discovered he didn't do it?) but until we have proof of innocence, i would personally put a bullet with "bin laden" written on it in every victim's casket, had i the resources. let someone try to do such a deed in your country and get away with it. if it were your choice, would you let them? pardon the venom, but frankly, what you've said, in light of recent events, has me pissed. don't you DARE try to tell us what WE DESERVE after we take such a hit.

Controversy, et cetera

Response to Controversy, et cetera 2001-10-11 08:26:47



Key discussion topics:
1) Was the Vietnam War justified? Why or why not?
2) Will we ever regret our war with the Taliban?
3) What SHOULD we do with Jane Fonda?

1) I'm not so sure about this one. I'm sure we had our reasons for attacking them. It was during the Cold War, and we were fighting the communists (a noble cause I might add)

2) Only time can really answer this question. This is different from Vietnam, because the enemy hit us were we lived. Something NEEDED to be done about the Taliban. They treat their people like shit. They destroy anything that doesn't conform to their twisted beliefs (case in point, a massive buddhist temple was demolished by them). We should not only bomb them with missles but, as a friend told me, "bomb them with Big-Macs." A little cultural warfare.

By the way, for those of you who are concerned about being drafted, don't worry just yet. First off,if we even do send in ground forces, with the kind of enemy we're fighting, and the terrain they're on, ground missions in Afghanistan would be more apropriate for special forces than for raw recruits. Plus (unlike in Vietnam) we're not going to be the only country participating in this strike. Other nations, plus the northern Aliiance, have already pledged their support.

3) I'm not sure exactly what Jane Fonda did to get this much hatred. She was in the spotlight before I was born, and I don't read much about her. Could someone clarify for me what she did exactly?

Response to Controversy, et cetera 2001-10-11 08:40:13


At 10/11/01 01:55 AM, MI4_REAL_2001 wrote: *crawls out from under rock*
Who is Jane Fonda?

During the Vietnam War, Jane Fonda was a Vietnam sympathizer. I can't blame her for this... When I read her radio address, I can agree with a lot of it.

Here is a transcript of her Vietnam radio broadcast:

"This is Jane Fonda. During my two week visit in the Democratic Republic of Vietnam, I've had the opportunity to visit a great many places and speak to a large number of people from all walks of life--workers, peasants, students, artists and dancers, historians, journalists, film actresses, soldiers, militia girls, members of the women's union, writers.
I visited the (Dam Xuac) agricultural coop, where the silk worms are also raised and thread is made. I visited a textile factory, a kindergarten in Hanoi. The beautiful Temple of Literature was where I saw traditional dances and heard songs of resistance. I also saw unforgettable ballet about the guerrillas training bees in the south to attack enemy soldiers. The bees were danced by women, and they did their job well.

In the shadow of the Temple of Literature I saw Vietnamese actors and actresses perform the second act of Arthur Miller's play All My Sons, and this was very moving to me--the fact that artists here are translating and performing American plays while US imperialists are bombing their country.

I cherish the memory of the blushing militia girls on the roof of their factory, encouraging one of their sisters as she sang a song praising the blue sky of Vietnam--these women, who are so gentle and poetic, whose voices are so beautiful, but who, when American planes are bombing their city, become such good fighters.

I cherish the way a farmer evacuated from Hanoi, without hesitation, offered me, an American, their best individual bomb shelter while US bombs fell near by. The daughter and I, in fact, shared the shelter wrapped in each others arms, cheek against cheek. It was on the road back from Nam Dinh, where I had witnessed the systematic destruction of civilian targets-schools, hospitals, pagodas, the factories, houses, and the dike system.

As I left the United States two weeks ago, Nixon was again telling the American people that he was winding down the war, but in the rubble-strewn streets of Nam Dinh, his words echoed with sinister (words indistinct) of a true killer. And like the young Vietnamese woman I held in my arms clinging to me tightly--and I pressed my cheek against hers--I thought, this is a war against Vietnam perhaps, but the tragedy is America's.

One thing that I have learned beyond a shadow of a doubt since I've been in this country is that Nixon will never be able to break the spirit of these people; he'll never be able to turn Vietnam, north and south, into a neo-colony of the United States by bombing, by invading, by attacking in any way. One has only to go into the countryside and listen to the peasants describe the lives they led before the revolution to understand why every bomb that is dropped only strengthens their determination to resist.

I've spoken to many peasants who talked about the days when their parents had to sell themselves to landlords as virtually slaves, when there were very few schools and much illiteracy, inadequate medical care, when they were not masters of their own lives.

But now, despite the bombs, despite the crimes being created--being committed against them by Richard Nixon, these people own their own land, build their own schools--the children learning, literacy--illiteracy is being wiped out, there is no more prostitution as there was during the time when this was a French colony. In other words, the people have taken power into their own hands, and they are controlling their own lives.

And after 4,000 years of struggling against nature and foreign invaders--and the last 25 years, prior to the revolution, of struggling against French colonialism--I don't think that the people of Vietnam are about to compromise in any way, shape or form about the freedom and independence of their country, and I think Richard Nixon would do well to read Vietnamese history, particularly their poetry, and particularly the poetry written by Ho Chi Minh."

She later tried to apologize for certain things she did, saying:

"I would like to say something, not just to Vietnam veterans in New England, but to men who were in Vietnam, who I hurt, or whose pain I caused to deepen because of things that I said or did," she began. "I was trying to help end the killing and the war, but there were times when I was thoughtless and careless about it and I'm . . . very sorry that I hurt them. And I want to apologize to them and their families."

The problem is... I don't know exactly how to say this... As American Citizens, we sort of accept a "terms of agreement" with our country. We have a sort of social contract. As American's, we are free to disagree with our government, but to an extent we should still be supportive of our country.

Jane Fonda went to Hanoi and posed alongside the military weapons (provided by China to Vietnam) that were used to kill US soldiers. Our soldiers didn't necessarily WANT to be in Vietnam, but our government sent them there, and Jane did nothing but hurt them while they were there.

If the US really wanted to stop communism, then Vietnam was not our true enemy - it was a scapegoat, a small country that we thought would be easy to bully. We were afraid of the "Domino Effect" - the spread of Communism. McCarthyism had American's afraid, "better dead than red".

I think Jane Fonda had good intentions, but she got carried away in how she expressed them.

I want to say she "sided with the enemy", but why were they the enemy? They were only the enemy because America decided to get involved in their civil war. We made them our enemy - they weren't coming after us.

I always get the strongest response from NG users who are in the US military, so I am waiting to hear some direct comments from soldiers who have stories about Fonda.

-Tom


Working on Nightmare Cops!

BBS Signature

Response to Controversy, et cetera 2001-10-11 08:41:59


At 10/11/01 12:14 AM, TomFulp wrote:
Key discussion topics:
1) Was the Vietnam War justified? Why or why not?

Usless war based on ideological fears that killed many people. Let people decide their own governments.

2) Will we ever regret our war with the Taliban?

No. The difference between the two is that Vietnam wasn't a provoked war. Ho Chi Minh never flew a plane into an American building.

3) What SHOULD we do with Jane Fonda?

Let her join up with StrawberryClock in an evil alliance... ooh! That's a good idea.

Response to Controversy, et cetera 2001-10-11 09:46:33


nice to see ya back...
Little Informal:
The clock crew made anti-newgrounds remarks, and were proud of it. maybe u should delete there friggen accounts and end they're crap

Controversy, et cetera

Response to Controversy, et cetera 2001-10-11 10:20:33


Okay, people.
Time to get a few things straight.
1.) The Vietnam war was another attempt to strongarm the rest of the world into American submission.
2.) Those that were drafted were under the poverty line or minorities.
3.) "Communism" has YET to EVER exist in the world. Russia, Vietnam, and China were and are all socialist countries, whether we label them "communism" or not. They are NOT truly Communist.
4.) There is nothing inherently "evil" about Communism. In fact, there's a lot more vicious sentiment in capitalism then there is in communism: communism is about total and complete equality between all people, and capitalism is about every man for himself.
5.) We killed innocent people in Vietnam. Lots of them. Including our own troops (ever hear of Agent Orange?)!
6.) I regret the bombing of Afghanistan already. This just goes to show the right-wing warhawk theory of "eye for an eye."
7.) We're hypocrites: we've been telling the people in the Middle East to settle their disputes for YEARS through tribunes, world courts, etc., but the moment WE get involved, it's time to get the guns ablazing. Sure, we lost a LOT of people -- but in Israel, EVERYONE has seen or been a part of or had a family member die from a suicide bombing or something similar.
8.) Ashcroft's new bill is being put forth in Congress. The bombing of Afghanistan is a smokescreen to keep people's attention away from this bill. Do you know what this bill does? It's going to enable police to search you or your car or your house WITHOUT reason at ANY time, allow police to DETAIN YOU WITHOUT REASON for an UNSPECIFIED AMOUNT of time, and enable the government to being inserting POLICEWARE into your computers, without anything you can do about it except go to jail and rot.
9.) "Nuking" Afghanistan will just kill a lot of innocent Afghans, not to mention destroy the ecology of all of the Middle East and possibly start a Nuclear War, wherein the world is comeplely decimated.

...so, that's what *I* think.

Response to Controversy, et cetera 2001-10-11 10:22:58


I almost forgot. Here's a little quote from Mr. Gandhi:

"An eye for an eye will make the world blind."

Think about that for a while.