Didn't do a logo for my father, am I cruel for it?

[NokayArt]

In some context, my father isn't around much but has always supported me on the weekends with literature and whatnot. He has anger issues and made it hard for everyone to communicate with him on an emotional level.

Recently he started working on a business for his own and knew I was drawing characters for some money while having some skill in other art forms. The issue in all this is that the logo he presented me with wasn't by him, it was a sample provided to him before he makes a decision. My father wanted me to make subtle changes that would still be blatant theft. I've informed him of the risks associated with stealing a sample to redraw or trace over, yet he seemed to ignore me.

Me being his daughter, I tried my best with my tablet barely getting by due to my incompetence. I only had a pencil sketch and forgot all about it. He never came back to remind me or leave a note, while I was busy handling requests. The holiday break was near its end and he comes in to ask about the logo.

Jesus was he upset, he basically said "I was forgotten and that tells me you don't give a f***. After all I've done for you and I asked for one favor, etc." I could understand why he was upset but I didn't know this logo was so personal to him. It's not the first time he's been under the impression that I didn't care about him.

I may sound like a**hole saying this but I'm at that point in my life where I wouldn't want to be bothered much. My mother keeps telling me to just do what he says, but it just feels fake to me. When literally everyone in my extended family and outsiders (friends, etc) hate you, doesn't that give a sign?

Thoughts?

[NokayArt]

At 2/23/21 11:34 PM, EternalJudge wrote:

At 2/23/21 11:14 PM, NokayArt wrote: In some context, my father isn't around much but has always supported me on the weekends with literature and whatnot. He has anger issues and made it hard for everyone to communicate with him on an emotional level.

Recently he started working on a business for his own and knew I was drawing characters for some money while having some skill in other art forms. The issue in all this is that the logo he presented me with wasn't by him, it was a sample provided to him before he makes a decision. My father wanted me to make subtle changes that would still be blatant theft. I've informed him of the risks associated with stealing a sample to redraw or trace over, yet he seemed to ignore me.

Me being his daughter, I tried my best with my tablet barely getting by due to my incompetence. I only had a pencil sketch and forgot all about it. He never came back to remind me or leave a note, while I was busy handling requests. The holiday break was near its end and he comes in to ask about the logo.

Jesus was he upset, he basically said "I was forgotten and that tells me you don't give a f***. After all I've done for you and I asked for one favor, etc." I could understand why he was upset but I didn't know this logo was so personal to him. It's not the first time he's been under the impression that I didn't care about him.

I may sound like a**hole saying this but I'm at that point in my life where I wouldn't want to be bothered much. My mother keeps telling me to just do what he says, but it just feels fake to me. When literally everyone in my extended family and outsiders (friends, etc) hate you, doesn't that give a sign?

Thoughts?

This is an interesting issue, you father probably thinks he can get away with it because the logo is a sample and hasn't actually been trademarked or copyrighted, but in this case he would be stealing from the original artist that made it.

If the artist is part of a firm, your father risks incurring the wrath of that firm's lawyers, he won't be dealing just with some poor starving artist.

If it's just some poor starving artist, he might very well get away with it, but it's still basically theft.

In any case, you would also be implicated as being guilty, if not of theft, then of a form of forgery.

Don't implicate yourself, let you dad be angry about it, and have him think through the logic of why what he asked was wrong.

He needs to pay the original source for the logo he wants.

Thanks. lol, I thought I was crazy for not being "Supportive" of him apparently. I asked why he didn't pay for it or get someone else to make it and he sees it as I'm capable of anything and will do anything. He thinks that breaking a moral or law proves how much you love someone. yeesh

[Little-Rena]

NTA

Your dad should have followed through with the other place, and if he wanted you to make an original logo, should pay.

[SatanBrain]

The definition is "ingrate".

[NokayArt]

At 2/24/21 12:46 AM, Little-Rena wrote: NTA

Your dad should have followed through with the other place, and if he wanted you to make an original logo, should pay.

He was saying, "I shouldn't have to pay anything cause I'm your motherf****** dad" when I didn't ask him to pay anything.

[NokayArt]

At 2/24/21 01:00 AM, SatanBrain wrote: The definition is "ingrate".

Pretty much, he called one of my paintings a doodle when I worked really hard on it to get the A. This is a perfect example why me and him don't bond like that. And I get that art is subjective but damn.

[DamnedByFate]

Blood relations are coincidental, and you don't owe anyone anything because of them.

People who act like dicks should be treated like dicks.

[kidray76]

At 2/24/21 10:17 AM, DamnedByFate wrote: People who act like dicks should be treated like dicks.

Speaking of dicks.

Dear OP, please tell him to SUCK MY DICK.

[NokayArt]

At 2/24/21 10:17 AM, DamnedByFate wrote: Blood relations are coincidental, and you don't owe anyone anything because of them.

People who act like dicks should be treated like dicks.

Agreed, don't understand how my mother just puts up with it honestly. Everyone around her family-wise hates him for almost the same reason.

[NokayArt]

At 2/24/21 10:25 AM, kidray76 wrote:

At 2/24/21 10:17 AM, DamnedByFate wrote: People who act like dicks should be treated like dicks.

Speaking of dicks.

Dear OP, please tell him to SUCK MY DICK.

Wish I could but I stopped talking to him much since the incident. lol

[MelTheMoth]

I feel like this is something straight from r/amItheasshole but to answer your question: You are in the right here 100%. You did nothing wrong at all here.

Even if there IS subtle changes made in the logo he presented you that could still be grounds for copyright infringement (especially if the businesses themselves do similar things). He is much better off hiring a freelancer to design a logo for him than to pay you to edit a random logo slightly to make it 'technically' legal. And if he has anger issues that is his issue to work out, not yours. It sounds like he needs some form of therapy if he lashed out that way since it sounded like you presented your reasoning rather clearly.

Tell him to read up on copyright law and tell him that he is shooting himself in the foot if he wants to try to plagiarize (especially if the logo belongs to a company connected with a megacorp). Places take that shit seriously and he may lose his job and or pay massive fines because he stole an IP. There is a reason why many bootleg brands don't stay active for long.

[MelTheMoth]

At 2/24/21 07:30 AM, NokayArt wrote:

At 2/24/21 01:00 AM, SatanBrain wrote: The definition is "ingrate".

Pretty much, he called one of my paintings a doodle when I worked really hard on it to get the A. This is a perfect example why me and him don't bond like that. And I get that art is subjective but damn.

If that's how he treats art tell him to create the logo himself (I understand you may not be able to but my point stands). Art is a service that takes time and effort, and if he is not capable of putting in either for a logo then you should not have to either since he puts very little value into your work. Art is hard, it's a process, and a painting sure as HELL ain't a doodle. You are not his art slave and you do not owe him anything if he treats your creations as disposable.

[SuperiorGhostgamer]

You're right to tell him no. Yeah just because its not copy righted or trade marked that doesn't mean you cant be sued into oblivion. he's better of paying the original artist to make alterations to the original design. and i should point out that congress is trying to create a "small claims court" for IP theft. in other words starving artist can now sue the shit out of you.

(Not a lawyer, but I had some weird hobbles)

[NokayArt]

At 2/24/21 11:12 AM, MelTheMoth wrote: I feel like this is something straight from r/amItheasshole but to answer your question: You are in the right here 100%. You did nothing wrong at all here.

Even if there IS subtle changes made in the logo he presented you that could still be grounds for copyright infringement (especially if the businesses themselves do similar things). He is much better off hiring a freelancer to design a logo for him than to pay you to edit a random logo slightly to make it 'technically' legal. And if he has anger issues that is his issue to work out, not yours. It sounds like he needs some form of therapy if he lashed out that way since it sounded like you presented your reasoning rather clearly.

Tell him to read up on copyright law and tell him that he is shooting himself in the foot if he wants to try to plagiarize (especially if the logo belongs to a company connected with a megacorp). Places take that shit seriously and he may lose his job and or pay massive fines because he stole an IP. There is a reason why many bootleg brands don't stay active for long.

My father said we all need some kind of therapy, but he needs it more than us considering how "love" to him is so deep. While I, on the other hand, feel love through simple communication between both parties. I don't think I should have to tiptoe around the conversation to make sure how I talk is in a way he understands. Due to the fact he is prone to interrupting me mid-sentence. Yes, he will turn a simple joke into a lecture or a ted talk.

Finding out he has ADHD answered most of my questions but not something I really want to deal with 24/7 personally. I still support him or contact him to make sure he knows he is on my mind occasionally. I do try to inform him of certain things that pertain to artwork and licensing. Yet I think it just goes in one ear, then out the other.

[NokayArt]

At 2/24/21 11:15 AM, MelTheMoth wrote:

At 2/24/21 07:30 AM, NokayArt wrote:

At 2/24/21 01:00 AM, SatanBrain wrote: The definition is "ingrate".

Pretty much, he called one of my paintings a doodle when I worked really hard on it to get the A. This is a perfect example why me and him don't bond like that. And I get that art is subjective but damn.

If that's how he treats art tell him to create the logo himself (I understand you may not be able to but my point stands). Art is a service that takes time and effort, and if he is not capable of putting in either for a logo then you should not have to either since he puts very little value into your work. Art is hard, it's a process, and a painting sure as HELL ain't a doodle. You are not his art slave and you do not owe him anything if he treats your creations as disposable.

I do agree with your statement. It's a tug of war when it comes to my art and at this point, I stopped showing him anything I've worked on unless it was realistic. My mother however only sees a portion of what I draw since she wouldn't want to see abominations her daughter draws any other time or for a client.

[MelTheMoth]

At 2/24/21 11:45 AM, NokayArt wrote:

At 2/24/21 11:12 AM, MelTheMoth wrote: I feel like this is something straight from r/amItheasshole but to answer your question: You are in the right here 100%. You did nothing wrong at all here.

Even if there IS subtle changes made in the logo he presented you that could still be grounds for copyright infringement (especially if the businesses themselves do similar things). He is much better off hiring a freelancer to design a logo for him than to pay you to edit a random logo slightly to make it 'technically' legal. And if he has anger issues that is his issue to work out, not yours. It sounds like he needs some form of therapy if he lashed out that way since it sounded like you presented your reasoning rather clearly.

Tell him to read up on copyright law and tell him that he is shooting himself in the foot if he wants to try to plagiarize (especially if the logo belongs to a company connected with a megacorp). Places take that shit seriously and he may lose his job and or pay massive fines because he stole an IP. There is a reason why many bootleg brands don't stay active for long.

My father said we all need some kind of therapy, but he needs it more than us considering how "love" to him is so deep. While I, on the other hand, feel love through simple communication between both parties. I don't think I should have to tiptoe around the conversation to make sure how I talk is in a way he understands. Due to the fact he is prone to interrupting me mid-sentence. Yes, he will turn a simple joke into a lecture or a ted talk.

Finding out he has ADHD answered most of my questions but not something I really want to deal with 24/7 personally. I still support him or contact him to make sure he knows he is on my mind occasionally. I do try to inform him of certain things that pertain to artwork and licensing. Yet I think it just goes in one ear, then out the other.

To a degree he is not wrong, we all probably could benefit from some form of therapy. However, the stuff being said to you and his behavior towards you is somewhat abusive. Maybe not in the physical sense but emotionally. I am aware there may be other issues at play (I have ADHD as well) but that is not an excuse for his behavior towards you. It may be a cause or explanation but it's not a justification. You can still care about someone and be abusive towards them. Idk if I am just reading the situation wrong but if he is getting aggressive with you (verbally) because you did do what he wanted and he called you an "Asshole" in response then he needs some form of counseling.

[NokayArt]

At 2/24/21 11:59 AM, MelTheMoth wrote:

At 2/24/21 11:45 AM, NokayArt wrote:

At 2/24/21 11:12 AM, MelTheMoth wrote: I feel like this is something straight from r/amItheasshole but to answer your question: You are in the right here 100%. You did nothing wrong at all here.

Even if there IS subtle changes made in the logo he presented you that could still be grounds for copyright infringement (especially if the businesses themselves do similar things). He is much better off hiring a freelancer to design a logo for him than to pay you to edit a random logo slightly to make it 'technically' legal. And if he has anger issues that is his issue to work out, not yours. It sounds like he needs some form of therapy if he lashed out that way since it sounded like you presented your reasoning rather clearly.

Tell him to read up on copyright law and tell him that he is shooting himself in the foot if he wants to try to plagiarize (especially if the logo belongs to a company connected with a megacorp). Places take that shit seriously and he may lose his job and or pay massive fines because he stole an IP. There is a reason why many bootleg brands don't stay active for long.

My father said we all need some kind of therapy, but he needs it more than us considering how "love" to him is so deep. While I, on the other hand, feel love through simple communication between both parties. I don't think I should have to tiptoe around the conversation to make sure how I talk is in a way he understands. Due to the fact he is prone to interrupting me mid-sentence. Yes, he will turn a simple joke into a lecture or a ted talk.

Finding out he has ADHD answered most of my questions but not something I really want to deal with 24/7 personally. I still support him or contact him to make sure he knows he is on my mind occasionally. I do try to inform him of certain things that pertain to artwork and licensing. Yet I think it just goes in one ear, then out the other.

To a degree he is not wrong, we all probably could benefit from some form of therapy. However, the stuff being said to you and his behavior towards you is somewhat abusive. Maybe not in the physical sense but emotionally. I am aware there may be other issues at play (I have ADHD as well) but that is not an excuse for his behavior towards you. It may be a cause or explanation but it's not a justification. You can still care about someone and be abusive towards them. Idk if I am just reading the situation wrong but if he is getting aggressive with you (verbally) because you did do what he wanted and he called you an "Asshole" in response then he needs some form of counseling.

You on point with that one. His excuse is for being a man and he feels like everyone is scared of him. My father fails to recognize the error in his ways or even show it in serious conversation. I'm glad he hasn't gone as fair to physically abuse me, not to say he hasn't done it to anyone. My parents see their toxic behavior towards each other as "It could be worse."

He's only aggressive verbally if the conversation has to do with him assuming I don't care about his feelings. He really does need help but it's up to him to take that step since we've already acknowledged it.

[NokayArt]

At 2/24/21 11:40 AM, SuperiorGhostgamer wrote: You're right to tell him no. Yeah just because its not copy righted or trade marked that doesn't mean you cant be sued into oblivion. he's better of paying the original artist to make alterations to the original design. and i should point out that congress is trying to create a "small claims court" for IP theft. in other words starving artist can now sue the shit out of you.

(Not a lawyer, but I had some weird hobbles)

At least you got your facts. Knowledge is power after all. I don't know how someone can be so hardworking yet lazy with anything else.

[NokayArt]

At 2/24/21 01:16 PM, Zymbot wrote:

A real catchy song. :)

[SatanBrain]

At 2/24/21 07:30 AM, NokayArt wrote:

At 2/24/21 01:00 AM, SatanBrain wrote: The definition is "ingrate".

Pretty much, he called one of my paintings a doodle when I worked really hard on it to get the A. This is a perfect example why me and him don't bond like that. And I get that art is subjective but damn.

Many people who walk the earth practice the fine art of making others feel responsible 
and even indebted to them, without cause. Satanism observes these leeches in their true 
light. Psychic vampires are individuals who drain others of their vital energy. This type 
of person can be found in all avenues of society. They fill no useful purpose in our 
lives, and are neither love objects nor true friends. Yet we feel responsible to the 
psychic vampire without knowing why. 

[YonusBahtzee]

his reaction seems to be incredibly irrational and childish.

first of all, just because you haven't finished it doesn't mean you don't care about him or have forgotten him and his request.

and second of all, he's extremely naive making the mistake of basically stealing another company's logo design and trying to get you involved (which I would absolutely recommend declining his request).

[NokayArt]

At 2/24/21 03:22 PM, SatanBrain wrote:

At 2/24/21 07:30 AM, NokayArt wrote:

At 2/24/21 01:00 AM, SatanBrain wrote: The definition is "ingrate".

Pretty much, he called one of my paintings a doodle when I worked really hard on it to get the A. This is a perfect example why me and him don't bond like that. And I get that art is subjective but damn.

Funny how he taught me about people like this when he's one of them.

[NokayArt]

At 2/24/21 03:51 PM, YonusBahtzee wrote: his reaction seems to be incredibly irrational and childish.

first of all, just because you haven't finished it doesn't mean you don't care about him or have forgotten him and his request.

and second of all, he's extremely naive making the mistake of basically stealing another company's logo design and trying to get you involved (which I would absolutely recommend declining his request).

I didn't finish it though thank god. We stopped talking about it after all the yelling he did. I already told him he can just stop being cheap and pay someone who is capable of it on a professional status than some 19 year old. Through one ear, then out the other.

[YonusBahtzee]

At 2/24/21 03:58 PM, NokayArt wrote:

At 2/24/21 03:51 PM, YonusBahtzee wrote: his reaction seems to be incredibly irrational and childish.

first of all, just because you haven't finished it doesn't mean you don't care about him or have forgotten him and his request.

and second of all, he's extremely naive making the mistake of basically stealing another company's logo design and trying to get you involved (which I would absolutely recommend declining his request).

I didn't finish it though thank god. We stopped talking about it after all the yelling he did. I already told him he can just stop being cheap and pay someone who is capable of it on a professional status than some 19 year old. Through one ear, then out the other.

some things will never change. you made the right decision.