Looks like Trump is bragging about how people should be "extremely grateful and happy" towards him that things weren't worse when he started all this by killing someone which could have easily led to war, all so he could improve his own image during impeachment. What Iran did was gave Trump a way out of his own making.

Yup.

Iran played this very well, in my opinion; they made a response that didn't cost lives (while still saving face), and gave America an out to not retaliate (again, since no lives were lost). I'm glad they played this situation well, and hope we don't further escalate anyway (not likely given this administration's uncharacteristically cool headed response, but you never know).

Regardless, we definitely lost all diplomatic progress made in the last 15 years in the Middle East; Iraq is going to want nothing to do with us after what we did in the last few days. Eh, better than barrelling into a war with Iran, and possibly getting Iran's allies involved against us.

See y'all next time we do something extremely dangerous, reckless, and not thought out at all.

Maybe only 30%ish, they have better ways of unseating the Mullahs.

I find it funny they go to such great lengths to support (or even start) rebellions in South America (hell, there's an actual college you can go to for that!) but aren't offering any aid (that we know of) to revolutionaries (pro-west or otherwise) in Iran.

It seems like the US slept through the entire hijab protest movement and the still-continuing protests it spawned when that would've been a great time to jump in, as they're doing with Hong Kong.

Protests even broke out in Najafabad and Mashhad, hometowns of the President and Ayatollah.

Why is the area not swarming with well-moneyed Spooks like during Allende and Lugo's administrations?

Was Bush so crap at this 'mid-east policy' thing he let the whole network decay into nothingness? (probably)

Basically there's so many people against the ruling clerics the US shouldn't need any military action at all.

Heck, Khamenei is probably praying all through the night attacks escalate, so there's an excuse for temporary unity.

{cough} of course, policy failure is likely only half the tale, the other half is pleasing investors from Raytheon and Lockheed

I thought it was Iraq who warned of the attacks? Or maybe I just read it wrong.

Whatever the case, this is a good time to bring this song back.

No one has claimed responsibility for those rockets, so it's likely not an attack from Iran - it just wouldn't make sense for them to do so. They would want to claim credit for anything they do, considering it's a way to appease their people.

Hopefully they won't retaliate militarily anymore, since they said they were done (and hopefully we follow what we said and don't react too hastily). It wouldn't make sense to, anyway, considering the prior strike they made was more a show of force than an attempt to kill Americans.

Well, let's see... Iraq was originally a US proxy to hold back Iran (and was particular bloody), which is why the US supported Saddam Hussein and his Ba'ath Party, and turned a blind eye to the atrocities he committed towards his own people until he started to go rogue and attack other US allies there, like the Kurds.

The US then bombed the shit out of Iraq during first gulf war, operation Desert Storm, and about 10 years later invaded them under Bush Jr under dubious claims, and bombed the shit out of them again - destroying infrastructure and residential areas, with the former being rebuilt by US companies, who skipped building regulations to save a buck, which are now falling apart.

The Iraqis may have been happy that Saddam was gone, but they weren't to thrilled to have an occupying foreign force who killed untold numbers of their family, friends, and neighbors, through missiles and bombings runs, destroyed much of their country, all for a forced regeime change. A regeime change that quickly led to sectarian violence between the two dominate sects of Muslims in the country, who were reviving old animosities against each other - and our intelligence agencies warned us about this happening.

From the ensuing chaos, from the rubble of destruction and a weak government, leaving a power vacume, ISIS arose, with Iran taking advantage and expanding their influence there - the latter was also predicted to happen by our intelligence agencies. And if you ask the majority of Iraq, and according to polls, they would prefer Iran over the US. And they want us out of the country, with Trump threatening them about paying millions for the bases the US built to support US forces there.

The missiles strikes are more propaganda than an actual threat. We will see more cyber attacks, and attacks through proxies.

From the sounds of it, Iran warned Iraq in advance about the missiles strikes moments before they struck, which they then passed onto the US.

Ah, OK.

In all seriousness, I would not be surprised if that song I linked to hits the Billboard Top 100 again.

Looks like Trump is trying to justify his killing of the Iranian commander by claiming that it was all about stopping an imminent attack from Iran on a US embassy... It doesn't seem like a lot of people believe that. And according to recent polls, the US public isn't supporting Trump over this - not with the idea that it could have led to war.

On a tragic note, a passenger jet crashed on the shores of Iran, with all passengers lost. Many are speculating it was accidentally shot down by Iran, which Iran denies. Trump is backing away from denouncing Iran over it, at the moment, cautioning that he will have to look at all the facts first.

You ever hear the phrase 'some people just want to watch the world burn'? I personally first heard it in that Batman movie, but I'm sure it's been around longer.

Anyways, I find that a lot of people just want to imagine the world already is burning (don't make this a climate change statement, it's a completely different metaphor). I think especially now that I see my peers having less and less drive tied to personal causes, it may be hard to motivate oneself without an illusion that we're all about to die.

But, these sentiments in general are nothing new. My dad told me last nite (while having a conversation about this very topic) that every generation, in his experiences, tends to believe that their problems are the worst ever, completely unprecedented, or both.

That's the great thing about Trump tho, he doesn't want any war over this! Pretty much any other US president would've already been dropping bombs all across Iran by now. Not him. Trump is probably the first president ever to truly put negotiation before conflict.

Strange, just a page back you said you supported a war if Iran bombed our assets. What changed your mind?

This sounds like a callback to one of your earlier posts.

You mean like how Obama negotiated the Iran nuclear deal that let Iran develop power plants and market their oil in return for checks to be sure they aren't developing weapons?

The deal that worked for the mutual benefit of the west and iran that trump has a hate boner for?

Not sure if this is sarcasm... We are talking about a guy who basically became A PR spokesman for Kim Joun-un of NK, securing his power with all the photo ops with him, and making him more powerful, with more nukes, while trying to convince the American public that he is getting him to denuclearize as they troll his ass by saying the opposite...

And Iran was keeping to their word over the Nuclear deal they signed under a previous president, until Trump dumped it, and then united a splintering country by killing a popular Iranian official, and made the proxy wars worse.. It was only because Iran held back their retaliation which we are not at war. If they killed a bunch of American soldiers, it would be hard for Trump to weasel out without looking strong - and his image is everything to him, with the majority of his base continuing to loyally support him even if we were at war.

If we’re looking at deescalating the Iran/USA situation, it’s best not to point fingers over a tragic incident that has involved civilians.

I don’t think the Iranian government have handled it well.

It was Canada's PM, Justin Trudeau, along with Ukraine, who are the one's really promoting this. Many of the passangers who were killed in this incident were Canadians, and the passenger jet belonged to Ukraine. Trudeau may be using politics to place blame, or pressure, on Trump, by saying that it was an accident by Iran. And Ukraine would rather it wasn't mechanical failings. The whole thing has, unfortunately, become political.

Given the history of distrust Iran has towards western powers, and Israel, and the likewise of distrust they have towards Iran, all parties involved have created an unwinnable situation, and why Iran is stumbling over this.

Or, perhaps, he's just a cowardly, immoral, thin skinned narcissist and idiot, who runs on pettiness and vindictiveness, and conning people into thinking he's is strong and a successful geniuses, who claims he is unfairly attacked because of those things, but who has been losing money for decades, due to his ego, ignorance, and gut instincts - and for those reasons, had been seeking financial assistance from foreign countries because up to his election because no American bank will loan him money anymore.

Russia loves him because he's a useful idiot who divides their biggest rival in the world, as well as destroying the US reputation in it. Republicans have no choice but to defend him since he represents the party's image, while securing their needs and hold on power. And Democrats are appalled, angry, and delighted, all at the same time, because he's all this and more, which helps them gain seats in the political offices in rebuke of him.

Video footage blows the "mechanical failure" theory out of the water.

All evidence indicates this was human error and Iran did not intentionally shoot the plane down. It is odd that they were allowing civilian aircraft to fly in their airspace when nobody was certain whether anyone (either the US or Iran) would be retaliating in any way.

The fact it had just took off from their own airport (would one of our bombers take off from their airport?) shows someone wasn't paying attention, was an idiot, or both.

And for further idiocy: Libs are blaming Hannity for it because he talked about the US sending B-52's to the region (like every other news company did).

I'm sure there were a handful of libs who would say such stupid shit, but the amount of stupid shit Hannity, a partisan political commentator on Fox news, spouts on a daily basis to an audience of millions in defense of Trump actions on Iran, with his own saber-rattling of bombing the shit out of It (like the oil fields to starve the people there), kinda help proves the libs point about him feeding into the warmongering narrative.

On another, if bizarre, note... Hero who fought off London Bridge attacker with a narwhal tusk accuses Donald Trump of 'feeding terror' by killing the Iranian general.

And...

Trump reportedly told associates he killed Qassem Soleimani because he was under pressure from GOP senators before his impeachment trial

While I can see that a war , or at least an escalation could happen there . I doubt it would be a world war, more likely a major regional conflict. Which would be pretty bad.

It sucks that Trump fired a shot (killing a top Iranian,) Khomani fired back (bombing an Iraqi baae US troops are based at) and in the middle 60+ Canadians lost their lives in the immediate aftermath.

Unlike a lot of people, Canadians included .I don't blame Trump or America, the plane was cleared to fly by Iranian authorities & shot down by another group using their authority over the weapons systems.

Unlike many people out there I don't see Trump as any worse than some previous US Presidents, he is openly often a sack of sh!t, where they were all secretly sacks of sh!t.

Openly or secretly ...it all smells bad !

Well China says haha fuck US and buys more oil from Iran while Iran threaten to strike Saudi and Israel if the conflict escalates.

Meanwhile Turkey plays the role of regional tough guy. We are expected to believe that when they join the EDU the European Reich will take on all this and save us from whatever this assumed beast is? While US builds a swamp enclosure and nations slowly descend into civil war.

This whole thing stinks of sewer overflow.

Sorry, Iran threatened to strike Dubai* and Israel. It was Friday, late, tired. Iran have played this really smart. Threatening attack on Israel is the quickest de-escalation tactic because Israel have a 'nuke the whole world in retaliation to military attack' policy (research: Samson Option). As, throwing their toys out the pram like a spoilt child is their quintessential style.

It's worth noting, given the dirty tactics at play...the Ukrainian airline thing could be the result of hacking and cyber attacks.

http://avia-pro.net/news/prichinoy-unichtozheniya-ukrainskogo-boeing-737-stali-amerikanskie-sredstva-reb

Also, wanted to share this analysis for anyone interested.

https://thesaker.is/short-intermission-of-sorts-with-a-few-apparently-needed-explanations/

I don't think Iranians or Western people want war. You got to ask, why are our only friends in the middle east, the two countries with the worst human rights records - like stuck in medieval times - and most Draconian leadership? Why are they always ok during all this 'conflict' and 'tyranny'?

General Soleimani was instrumental in defeating ISIS in Syria and Iraq. Ok, he lead the ground force while we provided air support. He was our ally. Anyone calling him a terrorist is frankly ridiculous.

Also, if climate change and the economy are such a worry, surely stopping war is the answer? Given that it's the biggest contributor to our "carbon footprint" and costs insane amounts of money. ($21+ trillion missing pentagon money anyone?)

”As part of an independent investigation, experts* established at least Washington’s partial involvement in the destruction of the Ukrainian passenger airliner in the sky over the Iranian capital. According to experts*, the US military purposefully changed information about the flight of a passenger plane, thereby turning it into a true target for Iranian air defense systems.”

*Y’know, “experts”. Not explicitly the NTSB, Boeing or Iran’s Aircraft Investigation Board.

I think you can be relied upon to take a news-story and just go with an alternative narrative as it doesn’t fit the popular consensus. Even the Iranian government doesn’t see it your way.

Right.

For the same reasons about “Draconian Leadership” and “stuck in Middle Ages”, I can’t say I’d be too thrilled about having Iran as an ally.

Ok.

I'm not being funny but it felt more like we were being geared up for war, before any proper investigation was done by the NTSB or any official boards. Again.

People know this is on the cards and given the history of conflict in the middle-east... I'm not about to accept any "official narrative". Sorry.

Just sharing a different angle that I haven't seen in this thread.

Iran has it's own set of problems sure and.. oh look. More crippling debilitating sanctions already.

Except, a new war would engulf the entire region over Iran, affecting the world with higher oil prices, with countries taking sides... Iran is not Iraq. And that is something any sane politician doesn't want in the current anti-war atmosphere.

The only things you can argue is that Trump is either doing it out of stupidity because he thinks it will help hm out in a tough election year, even when it went against the advisement of top official because of what it could have led to. Or, he is hoping to create further tension in the region to sell more US arms there - especially to Saudi Arabia and Israel.