At 10/23/19 08:05 PM, GiusepeCicero93 wrote:
So to be clear, you think that the citizens of America are going to go from online pho-activism to a hot war all across America, divided among Democrats and Republicans, over whatever happens in the next few months?
First, my apologies, you do not believe this, according to a post prior to the one where you responded to me. I missed it since I responded from my notifications rather than from this thread.
Just wanted to clear that up and retract this statement, first and foremost.
If you read my other post on the topic you would understand that I'm not siding with left or right because I simply believe that they're two sides of the same coin being manipulated by the oligarchy running our nation.
Well, Democrats and Republicans are both Neoliberals, so among them that's true. "The Left" is by definition not run by oligarchs, though, considering being a leftist means you support the redistribution of power from the powerful to the people. Be careful not to get "The Left" confused with "Democrats".
I'm also convinced that the vast majority of the "come and take it" crowd (those who vocally side with Trump's apparent civil war) are also the same people who vocally defend cops taking guns from law-abiding citizens, and ultimately would do nothing if the situation ever escalated.
Me too, we totally agree there.
On the note of paramilitary groups, paramilitary groups exist on either fringe of the political spectrum.
They literally do not, this is uniquely a problem on the Right, as far as I can tell. Do correct me if I'm wrong, though, with a counter-example.
Before it's brought up, Antifa is not a paramilitary outfit, by the way - not even their black bloc is "militaristic", just violent, in the leaat charitable interpretation of their actions.
Also, singling out individuals to uphold blanket group statements is something that occurs in all movements and against all people. Anti Left? Point out Antifa, these lefties have lost it! Anti-right? Check out this El Paso kid, the right are all nazis! Middle Eastern guy shoots a white lady? The hordes of Africa are coming to dismantle society! It's dribble meant to catch people up in a flurry of emotions so they can't think.
Yes, confusion and muddying the waters makes it much more difficult to discuss these things honestly. But I do try, at least. I won't pick that apart piece by piece, but do understand that it's possible for one side to be lying and obfuscating while the other side has hard evidence of an example representing a trend.
I notice centrists & moderates often get this part wrong and believe that an argument with a similar construction to opposing arguments means that the argument has the same merit, which doesn't take into account the possibility of one side is simply lying about their data. Not making any accusations here, but do be wary of this.
We are actively splintering ourselves further and further into exclusive tribes because we're arguing over redundant points presented to us by cable news media and politics.
That's... a valid point against the broader left, actually, and it's much less an issue on the right. Coalition building is definitely a problem, exacerbated by the fact that mainstream liberalism focuses on identity politics rather than the more inclusive intersectional politics.
I don't think this leads toward civil war in any meaningful way, but your point is taken.
The thing that the left has over the right, is that their ideas are more accepted in popular culture, shared more by celebrities and people of social import, and generally supported by the overall present narrative.
Not necessarily. How does the mainstream feel about Unions? Collective bargaining? Public services? Welfare? Public housing?
The fact of the matter is, the media is very Neoliberal, and won't entertain any ideas left of Capitalism. I would argue that it would support Fascism before giving Socialism positive coverage, but that's a topic for another day.
Both suck. Both want authoritarianism. Both are not as good as the people who idolize them think they are.
I'm going to be charitable and say you're really talking about Democrats vs Republicans, in which case most of your talking points are pretty on the mark; that's what happens when both parties adopt Neoliberalism (which is a center-right wing ideology). You hardly touch on leftism causing issues, though; would you be interested in exploring this topic further elsewhere (aka a different thread)? I'd be delighted to discuss it with you on here.