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End of Life Decisions

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End of Life Decisions 2019-02-27 11:20:10


How do you feel about assisted suicide or at least allowing patients to choose to end measures keeping them alive, maybe not so much giving them anything to specifically end their life?


And I know it may be a bit political, but I'd actually like personal opinions or personal stories here, not so much legal jargon or sources.


I've been watching my grandmother on hospice for a few months now. I've posted about this before because her shitty kids bailed on her, as did most of her grandkids, so now she's alone at the end with only a handful of us who give any fucks.


Two of her daughters haven't bothered checking on her in over a year and both of them can go straight to hell.


My grandma helped raise me, she's like my mom.


She's ready to die. She's asked for it.


She's begged for it.


We're in the final days. Maybe even final hours.


She can no longer eat, no longer drink, is completely bed ridden. Has a catheter that has been empty all week aside from some black sludge.


She's in constant pain.


She wishes to cease all medication aside from her pain meds.


I believe we should honor her wishes. I believe it is her life, she should get to decide how it ends. Why should she be FORCED to stay alive an additional miserable month if she could stop her meds and go now?


I love her but I'm so sick of her suffering. I'm so mad about her shitty kids.


So have you guys ever cared for anyone on hospice? Have you had a situation like this in your family?


How did it go?


I know @DamnedByFate agrees with me because he and I have discussed this via PM but I'd like to hear other opinions and if you disagree with me completely--- that's ok too.


| It is possible to commit no mistakes and still lose|||Love belongs to Desire, and Desire is always cruel.||||

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Response to End of Life Decisions 2019-02-27 11:28:59


if you want to die, you should be allowed to do it


don't really see the problem


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Response to End of Life Decisions 2019-02-27 11:49:36


On one hand, there needs to be an “exit” for those who clearly do not have any quality of life, on the other hand, you don’t want to encourage suicide when things could get much better.

Assisted suicide (patient carries out the act to end his life) and euthanasia (doctors deliver drugs to patient) should be allowed if certain objective criteria are met and it must be approved by doctors or psychologists.

Response to End of Life Decisions 2019-02-27 11:51:33


I'm all for certain patients being allowed the choice to end their life.

Response to End of Life Decisions 2019-02-27 12:28:54


If there's anything that you should own and have power over, as a free person, it's your own life.


"some people who believe they're smart do nothing but talk incessantly. if they didn't, how else would they let you know how smart they are?"

Response to End of Life Decisions 2019-02-27 12:35:54


At 2/27/19 11:49 AM, Sobolev wrote: on the other hand, you don’t want to encourage suicide when things could get much better.


that's ridiculous logic


allowing things like smoking, drinking, etc isn't encouraging it


same goes for this


it's a personal decision


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Response to End of Life Decisions 2019-02-27 12:49:05


http://www.abc.net.au/science/articles/2000/08/23/166348.htm


bristol university (5g testbed) suicide clusters

prescription drugs that cause suicidal ideation


Response to End of Life Decisions 2019-02-27 12:49:56


It's certainly an extreme method, but I honestly don't see a problem with assisted suicide as long as certain conditions are met.


If someone is in a bad condition, such as your grandma and most likely won't get any better, then why the fuck not allow them to end it, by providing the means to it? Just grant their final wish.


But that's the only time I could accept it, I think.


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Response to End of Life Decisions 2019-02-27 12:54:31


At 2/27/19 11:49 AM, Sobolev wrote: On one hand, there needs to be an “exit” for those who clearly do not have any quality of life, on the other hand, you don’t want to encourage suicide when things could get much better.


  1. It never gets any better.
  2. Forcing someone to live against their express wishes is an affront to human dignity, in my opinion.

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Response to End of Life Decisions 2019-02-27 13:24:09 (edited 2019-02-27 13:24:44)


motorized wheelchair and a cliff*, laws be damned


*no, you don't push her off the cliff


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Response to End of Life Decisions 2019-02-27 13:35:43


Anyone can kill himself. If one so wishes. If others wish for him to die, it's simply murder.


"Compassion is the vice of kings: stamp down the wretched & the weak: this is the law of the strong: this is our law and the joy of the world."

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Response to End of Life Decisions 2019-02-27 13:35:48


I think Terry Pratchett's documentary "Choosing to Die" has a lot of good information on how this should be handled.


The general gist of it is that people who are dying often are comforted by the idea of having an option of suicide that makes their passing from natural causes without euthanasia more bearable.


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Response to End of Life Decisions 2019-02-27 14:24:18


I've been talking to my sisters all day and we all agree this should be her choice.


Hospice says we can stop any meds she doesn't want.


There is a legal limit on the pain meds we can give her, another words we cannot simply overdose her.


Of her kids who do care, one really doesn't want to let her go


And I feel for him but it's not him suffering. I wish he'd try to see this from her point of view.


She DID sign a DNR, which includes no one being able to give her fluid or a feeding tube or anything through IV.


| It is possible to commit no mistakes and still lose|||Love belongs to Desire, and Desire is always cruel.||||

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Response to End of Life Decisions 2019-02-27 16:19:08


Fortunately never faced a decision like that myself, grandma seemed to want to die in the end too... but she did, in her sleep. No assistance necessary.


I do believe you should be allowed to choose if you want to live or die. Maybe have some form of margin so you know the person really is certain, and not just delusional, out of their mind etc, but the choice should be theirs and no one elses. The one thing you have control over in life is (or should be) the moment of your death.


Check out the NRC / Hexa #54 (Jun)

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Response to End of Life Decisions 2019-02-27 16:34:56


At 2/27/19 04:19 PM, Cyberdevil wrote: Fortunately never faced a decision like that myself, grandma seemed to want to die in the end too... but she did, in her sleep. No assistance necessary.

I do believe you should be allowed to choose if you want to live or die. Maybe have some form of margin so you know the person really is certain, and not just delusional, out of their mind etc, but the choice should be theirs and no one elses. The one thing you have control over in life is (or should be) the moment of your death.


Oh yeah and she's not in a super coherent state right now, but she wanted to enter hospice around Christmas and she signed the DNR and stuff with a sound mind.


Dont have to worry about a will or anything. Her 2 daughters already broke in and stole all her shit last year.


Have I mentioned that I wish theyd die???


I wish they'd die.


| It is possible to commit no mistakes and still lose|||Love belongs to Desire, and Desire is always cruel.||||

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Response to End of Life Decisions 2019-02-27 17:13:01


At 2/27/19 11:28 AM, Sekhem wrote: if you want to die, you should be allowed to do it

don't really see the problem


quoted for the truth

Response to End of Life Decisions 2019-02-27 19:34:03


At 2/27/19 11:49 AM, Sobolev wrote: On one hand, there needs to be an “exit” for those who clearly do not have any quality of life, on the other hand, you don’t want to encourage suicide when things could get much better.
Assisted suicide (patient carries out the act to end his life) and euthanasia (doctors deliver drugs to patient) should be allowed if certain objective criteria are met and it must be approved by doctors or psychologists.


I could not say this any better and totally agree. This is my answer too.

Response to End of Life Decisions 2019-02-27 19:44:46 (edited 2019-02-27 19:46:02)


I just left her house. The first half the visit she was totally incoherent, did not know who I was, talking nonsense.


Second half the visit she realized who I was so I held her hand and talked to her about random things.


I'm off work Friday, so I'll be watching her Friday.


| It is possible to commit no mistakes and still lose|||Love belongs to Desire, and Desire is always cruel.||||

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Response to End of Life Decisions 2019-02-27 20:32:48


At 2/27/19 11:20 AM, SevenSeize wrote: I love her but I'm so sick of her suffering. I'm so mad about her shitty kids.


whoa

whoa whoa whoa

be mad. that's fine. but don't let it influence anything other than your view of those people.

I feel like you probably understand the rationale, but the way you write that makes it seem like on some level, maybe you think these negative emotions will subside once your grandma no longer needs care.

more likely, they'll intensify before they ease. and I suspect that you'll always have them in some form, unless you make a dedicated effort to the contrary.


So have you guys ever cared for anyone on hospice? Have you had a situation like this in your family?


my grandma's approaching the end too. but she's still in her own home and has two of her daughters caring for her, one of which is my mum. Mum jokes that we better do the same for her should she need it. We joke we're putting her in a home.


I'll probably read this in ten minutes and facepalm. - RageVI

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Response to End of Life Decisions 2019-02-27 21:13:12


At 2/27/19 08:32 PM, FIGMENTUM wrote:
At 2/27/19 11:20 AM, SevenSeize wrote: I love her but I'm so sick of her suffering. I'm so mad about her shitty kids.
whoa
whoa whoa whoa
be mad. that's fine. but don't let it influence anything other than your view of those people.
I feel like you probably understand the rationale, but the way you write that makes it seem like on some level, maybe you think these negative emotions will subside once your grandma no longer needs care.
more likely, they'll intensify before they ease. and I suspect that you'll always have them in some form, unless you make a dedicated effort to the contrary.


Oh, no no. I just didn't want to elaborate for the sake of the fact I'd already written a novel. It's a long story and they've done a lot of horrible things. I shoulda separated the sentences.


I don't plan on ever speaking to either of these women ever again. It's been so nasty that we've had to file police reports, get lawyers involved. It's disgusting and they're disgusting people.


I am sick of seeing her suffer

I am angry


Those are two separate things I am feeling, they're just related at the moment bc I'm so pissed off that she's at the end of her life and ALL of her kids aren't there for her.


Shes dying knowing those 2 dont care at all.


I hate that


So have you guys ever cared for anyone on hospice? Have you had a situation like this in your family?
my grandma's approaching the end too. but she's still in her own home and has two of her daughters caring for her, one of which is my mum. Mum jokes that we better do the same for her should she need it. We joke we're putting her in a home.


I'm glad we are able to care for her and she's not in a home.

My grandpa, her husband, pass about 4 years ago. I was close to him too. He was like my dad.

He chose to go at the hospital, but I was with him.

ICU was real good about that. They let us give him enough pain meds that he just went to sleep.


| It is possible to commit no mistakes and still lose|||Love belongs to Desire, and Desire is always cruel.||||

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Response to End of Life Decisions 2019-02-27 22:02:05


I don't know if I want to weigh in on the subject too much. No, I don't think people should be able to end their lives whenever they want...


I do think that people should have that as an option though if they're extremely old or in pain and there can't be anything done to help them.


On a slightly different, but similar subject I've told my family to give me about a week or two plugged in if I ever end up in a situation where I'm on life support. See if I can make it back from there and if not just let me go.

Response to End of Life Decisions 2019-02-27 22:06:16


At 2/27/19 10:02 PM, Fro wrote:
On a slightly different, but similar subject I've told my family to give me about a week or two plugged in if I ever end up in a situation where I'm on life support. See if I can make it back from there and if not just let me go.


That's how I feel too. Maybe like a month? Then if I don't make any progress, let me go, donate my organs.


| It is possible to commit no mistakes and still lose|||Love belongs to Desire, and Desire is always cruel.||||

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Response to End of Life Decisions 2019-02-27 22:59:32


At 2/27/19 11:20 AM, SevenSeize wrote: How do you feel about assisted suicide or at least allowing patients to choose to end measures keeping them alive, maybe not so much giving them anything to specifically end their life?

And I know it may be a bit political, but I'd actually like personal opinions or personal stories here, not so much legal jargon or sources.

I've been watching my grandmother on hospice for a few months now. I've posted about this before because her shitty kids bailed on her, as did most of her grandkids, so now she's alone at the end with only a handful of us who give any fucks.

Two of her daughters haven't bothered checking on her in over a year and both of them can go straight to hell.

My grandma helped raise me, she's like my mom.

She's ready to die. She's asked for it.

She's begged for it.

We're in the final days. Maybe even final hours.

She can no longer eat, no longer drink, is completely bed ridden. Has a catheter that has been empty all week aside from some black sludge.

She's in constant pain.

She wishes to cease all medication aside from her pain meds.

I believe we should honor her wishes. I believe it is her life, she should get to decide how it ends. Why should she be FORCED to stay alive an additional miserable month if she could stop her meds and go now?

I love her but I'm so sick of her suffering. I'm so mad about her shitty kids.

So have you guys ever cared for anyone on hospice? Have you had a situation like this in your family?

How did it go?

I know @DamnedByFate agrees with me because he and I have discussed this via PM but I'd like to hear other opinions and if you disagree with me completely--- that's ok too.


I am fine with it after watching my pop die and all they could do was give meds till he stopped breathing. He wanted to go sooner and after seeing all that suffering I can understand why people die by choice when they have no fight left.


This is now legal in Canada. We do the assisted suicides. Medically assistance in dying facts:


What types of MAID are permitted in Canada?

In Canada, two types of MAID are allowed:

  1. A physician or nurse practitioner can directly administer a substance that causes the death of the person who has requested it, and
  2. A physician or nurse practitioner can give or prescribe to a patient a substance that they can self-administer to cause their own death.

Who is eligible for MAID under Canadian law?

Under Bill C-14, two independent health care professionals need to evaluate an individual in order to determine whether he/she qualifies for MAID. To qualify for MAID, a person must satisfy all of the following eligibility criteria. They must:

  1. Be eligible for government-funded health insurance in Canada;
  2. Be 18 years of age or older;
  3. Have a grievous and irremediable condition, as defined by Section 241.2, para. 2 of the Criminal Code;
  4. Have made a voluntary request for MAID that was not made as a result of external pressure;
  5. Give informed consent to receive MAID after having been informed of the means that are available to relieve their suffering, including palliative care.

In order to have a “grievous and irremediable medical condition,” as defined by Bill C-14, a person must satisfy all of the following requirements:

  1. Have a serious and incurable illness, disease, or disability;
  2. Be in an advanced state of irreversible decline in capability;
  3. Endure physical and psychological suffering that is intolerable to them; and
  4. Their natural death has become reasonably foreseeable.

Patients must also be capable of providing informed consent at the time that MAID is provided.


RWS: Your never around so it's just a waste of time to chat with u. Good riddance.

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Response to End of Life Decisions 2019-02-27 23:16:57


At 2/27/19 10:59 PM, Quisty wrote:
At 2/27/19 11:20 AM, SevenSeize wrote: How do you feel about assisted suicide or at least allowing patients to choose to end measures keeping them alive, maybe not so much giving them anything to specifically end their life?

And I know it may be a bit political, but I'd actually like personal opinions or personal stories here, not so much legal jargon or sources.

I've been watching my grandmother on hospice for a few months now. I've posted about this before because her shitty kids bailed on her, as did most of her grandkids, so now she's alone at the end with only a handful of us who give any fucks.

Two of her daughters haven't bothered checking on her in over a year and both of them can go straight to hell.

My grandma helped raise me, she's like my mom.

She's ready to die. She's asked for it.

She's begged for it.

We're in the final days. Maybe even final hours.

She can no longer eat, no longer drink, is completely bed ridden. Has a catheter that has been empty all week aside from some black sludge.

She's in constant pain.

She wishes to cease all medication aside from her pain meds.

I believe we should honor her wishes. I believe it is her life, she should get to decide how it ends. Why should she be FORCED to stay alive an additional miserable month if she could stop her meds and go now?

I love her but I'm so sick of her suffering. I'm so mad about her shitty kids.

So have you guys ever cared for anyone on hospice? Have you had a situation like this in your family?

How did it go?

I know @DamnedByFate agrees with me because he and I have discussed this via PM but I'd like to hear other opinions and if you disagree with me completely--- that's ok too.
I am fine with it after watching my pop die and all they could do was give meds till he stopped breathing. He wanted to go sooner and after seeing all that suffering I can understand why people die by choice when they have no fight left.

This is now legal in Canada. We do the assisted suicides. Medically assistance in dying facts:

What types of MAID are permitted in Canada?
In Canada, two types of MAID are allowed:
Who is eligible for MAID under Canadian law?
Under Bill C-14, two independent health care professionals need to evaluate an individual in order to determine whether he/she qualifies for MAID. To qualify for MAID, a person must satisfy all of the following eligibility criteria. They must:
In order to have a “grievous and irremediable medical condition,” as defined by Bill C-14, a person must satisfy all of the following requirements:
Patients must also be capable of providing informed consent at the time that MAID is provided.


Oh wow, this was interesting to read.


That's awesome that you guys have that option up there.


I wish it was like that here.


| It is possible to commit no mistakes and still lose|||Love belongs to Desire, and Desire is always cruel.||||

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Response to End of Life Decisions 2019-02-28 01:02:55


I think it's better she dies

Response to End of Life Decisions 2019-02-28 04:26:02 (edited 2019-02-28 04:26:10)


At 2/27/19 04:34 PM, SevenSeize wrote: Oh yeah and she's not in a super coherent state right now, but she wanted to enter hospice around Christmas and she signed the DNR and stuff with a sound mind.

Dont have to worry about a will or anything. Her 2 daughters already broke in and stole all her shit last year.

Have I mentioned that I wish theyd die???

I wish they'd die.


:(


Well they probably will eventually...


Check out the NRC / Hexa #54 (Jun)

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Response to End of Life Decisions 2019-02-28 06:58:46


At 2/28/19 04:26 AM, Cyberdevil wrote:
At 2/27/19 04:34 PM, SevenSeize wrote: Oh yeah and she's not in a super coherent state right now, but she wanted to enter hospice around Christmas and she signed the DNR and stuff with a sound mind.

Dont have to worry about a will or anything. Her 2 daughters already broke in and stole all her shit last year.

Have I mentioned that I wish theyd die???

I wish they'd die.
(
Well they probably will eventually...


Like next week would be super


| It is possible to commit no mistakes and still lose|||Love belongs to Desire, and Desire is always cruel.||||

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Response to End of Life Decisions 2019-02-28 08:25:52


At 2/28/19 06:58 AM, SevenSeize wrote: Like next week would be super


Miracles do happen.


Check out the NRC / Hexa #54 (Jun)

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Response to End of Life Decisions 2019-02-28 08:30:34


At 2/28/19 08:25 AM, Cyberdevil wrote:
At 2/28/19 06:58 AM, SevenSeize wrote: Like next week would be super
Miracles do happen.


This genuinely made me smile.


That's how much I hate them. Lol


@FUNKbrs would be proud of me. Hate bringing me joy....


| It is possible to commit no mistakes and still lose|||Love belongs to Desire, and Desire is always cruel.||||

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Response to End of Life Decisions 2019-02-28 08:49:27


At 2/28/19 08:30 AM, SevenSeize wrote: @FUNKbrs would be proud of me. Hate bringing me joy....

I thought Hate was the Only Way to experience joy.


My psychobilly band Los Psychosis.Me playing Psychobilly accordion.

HATE.

Because how else do you explain 1.2 million years of perpetual war?

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