As of this writing, Trump has yet to declare a national emergency to get the money and resources to build his wall with, but he seems to be inching closer to it. Today, after announcing he will support the bipartisan spending bill from Congress, which doesn't give him money for his wall (just border security, and a few miles of extra fence), and avoiding another shutdown, his administration announced that he plans to call a national emergency after.

Personally, I think it's a bad decision. It's based off of fearmongering and appeasement to his base - which is never a good reason for declaring a national emergency. Even people within his own party are cautioning against it, saying it would set a bad precedent, allowing other presidents, regardless of party, to do the same thing. Of course, this will be challenged in the courts, and probably lead to more investigations of his administration, and be one more nail in it come impeachment proceedings.

I’d prefer to talk about it if he actually does it.

It’s been 2+ years now, and we should know that he says sensational stuff for the spotlight.

Not saying we should ignore him, as he’ll go a step further. It’s just wearisome to jump at everything he says.

EDIT: I think his tendency to be full of hot-air is also part of the reason why the Trump thread exists, too.

Oh, he is full of hot air, and he loves to create drama for the attention of things, but the one thing he hates the most is anything that hurts his image. His image is everything to him, and he becomes irrational, and unpredictable, when he thinks it's been damaged, doing things that no sane president would do. As one of Trump's generals recently said in describing his foreign policy "He is irrational and impulsive".

Trump's image has been severely damaged by blinking first over the government shutdown. The more rabid bits of his base, who pushed him to include a border wall in the deal, are now viciously turning on him. They would rather have kept the government shut down, ignoring all the other consequences of it, to get that wall for purely cultural reasons. Trump's presidency is looking to be a lame duck now, with him looking like a weak leader. That is burning him up inside.

I think it' very likely he will call a national emergency over this wall, in an attempt appease his base and repair some of his reputaition. But the more I think about it the more I think it will go no where, like a lot of his other policies (we are still in Syria despite his claims that we are withdrawing, or that North Korea is denuclearizing when they are not). So, this may be nothing more than just confusing people, making them think he is doing something when he's not, knowing it will be tied up in the courts for years. But, maybe he is more suicidal and dumber than I give him credit for....

Looks like he did declare it?

Yeah, looks like he actually declared it a National Emergency this morning.

... Welp, let's see if Congress or SCOTUS can course correct this one. There is a small chance a bipartisan bill could be passed to reject Mr. 45's national emergency order (many Republican senators have openly come out against it), and frankly this has no legal legs or precident to stand on sobI'd be shocked if SCOTUS declared it legit.

If it gets through passed these safeguards... Well, Progressives DO have quite the laundry list of things they consider National Emergencies (as loosely defined by our Idiot-in-Chief). Infrastructure, Global Warming, Healthcare... all of these things cost more lives than what the bumbler declared this for, so expect to start seeing emergencies declared for all of these things without your input.

Have fun with that during the next Democratic presidency; y'all are setting the precident for it.

Unfortunately.

Apart from what Gario said about this setting a precedent for anything else, I’ll be looking forward to hearing both Republicans and users defending something else that is indefensible, once again.

I'm still amazed at the level of defense of things that they use to decry the other party for, or things that the right use to preach about that they found immoral (Evangelicals are still the number one supporters of Trump, even though he's done almost every sin in the bible outside of killing someone and having gay sex).

On another note, Trump, and Pence, are being reamed as hypocrites for denouncing Obama for when he used an executive order over immigration as unconstitutional.

Looks like hes upholding his promise to build the wall. Everyone said he was backing away, I guess not. Got both his SOTU and wall in the end.

Only if you love partisan judges and fear mongering political leaders. It's all sad.

Looks like Democrats are already taunting Trump over his national emergency declaration, and trying to scare the GOP, by indicating that a Democrat president could declare a national emergency over guns - this was said on the one year anniversary of the Parkland school shooting.

Sounds like something a person who hate's America and the powers she gives each branch would say; if you support declaring an emergency to bypass Congress (and ignore the powers vested to them) then you simply hate America - no two ways about it. Besides, he hasn't gotten his wall yet; this route has legal hurdles he still hasn't cleared (and likely won't, if America is a functioning government and not an effective dictatorship).

Y'know, in my earlier post I WAS going to make this similar taunt, but then I realized that we're talking about a National Emergency (which grants the President more immediate power to allocate resources) and not a literal State of Emergency (which allows the executive the power to suspend constitutional rights). Not quite the same thing, I don't think, so Democrats should be careful with how they frame this.

At this point, I don't think it matters much. It was meant to be vague, and work the over imagination of the right, who have spent decades framing Democrats as anti-constitutional over gun rights - even though Trump has done more damage to the gun industry (if unintended) and gun rights, than Obama has done in all his 8 years. Democrats are not going to repeat 94, which is why they haven't brought up any new gun legislature since they retook the House. They are very aware of the dangers of gun control legislature to their party if they do it wrong.

The only thing I can think of that a Democrat president could do, without alienating all of the gun culture in the country, by declaring a national emergency would be to divert funds back into the ATF, improve tracing guns, and improving background checks - of course, all of this is still scary to a lot of people on the right, who will still challenge these things based on their constitutionality.

I support Trump's decision to address the national emergency at our border. I suppose supporting the POSUS's decisions for the benefit of America and its citizens makes me, as the left would call me, un-American... Doesn't really add up... Not to mention he is working within the bounds of our constitution and government by having the right to declare national emergencies much like many other presidents in the past, not really a dictatorship. But on the subject of dictators, I'm sure the left would love and have no problem with a left wing socialist dictator just not one that supports right wing policies.

Not really, I just like to support policies that better America and protect its citizens (in particular securing the border).

At this moment it’d be prudent to not give conservatives something to villify liberals about. The person in the post above me is talking about a fabricated liberal dictator when there is a conservative leader literally circumventing due process as the topic of this thread.

Might as well just at me, because Im going to reply to something like this since I have nothing better to do now. There is plenty already to vilify about the left whom label people as unamerican/bigots/racists for supporting the president's policies to help make America better. Again, Trump has every right to declare a national emergency and if the house and senate deem it necessary to terminate it, then they are able to. All I was saying is the left is throwing a fit at something completely within the limits of the presidents power and If it were a democrat they would have no issue.

They already did that with Obama. They called him a dictator, a Muslim brotherhood sympathizer, not a natural born citizen, wanted to kill people with Death panels in Obamacare, a Nazi, a communist, a racist...... I could go on, and this is just stuff from the right leaning media. And this is not even pointing out the conspiracies that GOP politicians in congress were promoting and investigating during the Obama years. And Obama was pretty moderate liberal, but not really anything you could call a dictator, or say he was an extremist in any way, but that didn't stop the right.

The point here is that they'll do it anyways, whether you supply them with materials for it or not. It's a not a new situation. Conservatives have been vilifying liberals for decades, and now control many of the top spots in radio and Network Cable News, with audience in the 10's of millions (mostly white, rural, males, Christians, and elderly), spinning daily fear over the smallest incident that might involve a liberal.* I use to listen to Conservative Republican Rush Limbaugh on the car radio with my dad in the 80's, and the guy would scour the newspapers to find anything to comment about the evils of liberals, no matter how small it was. This is just how it was, and still is.

But, when it comes to actual laws, and legislature, and not just some comments that could be spun to the usual base in a negative manner, that can be felt, or is tangible in some way to people, that is what the public will respond to. Or a politicians turns out to be something other than what they portrayed themselves as to voters, or doubles down on favoring certain groups over others, while attacking everything that criticizes them or to the cheering of their base, or becomes an obvious liar, then that is what the general public will see. We are already a polarized country, where we have sides that won't change their views that easily, and will often downplay serious failures of their candidates because they don't see it as really affecting them, or they think it might deny them what they want out of that candidate if they stop supporting them (see Trump and evangelicals).

The whole thing is rather complicated, but it doesn't mean that we should always overreact in fear to what a politicians say, unless it's an over the top lie or they constantly repeat it, or they try to enact it. A lot of this shit is just trying to ecite the base to go out and vote for candidates in their party. Party propaganda will always be there, but it's the views of modeats and independents that matter the most, since they are the ones who can sway elections form one side to another.

Better for who? Most Americans don't back IT. It's mostly xenophobic and white nationalist that are THE BIGGEST supporters of it (and those who just support it out of loyalty to their party and Trump), who make it all about their culture being under attack, or supplanted, by other races. It has little to do with security, or practicality, since you can go under, around, or over walls. And there are other greater threats to our security than illegal immigration. That's what the statistics and facts constantly show.

People who don't follow the facts and statistic are easily trolled by something as stupid as "Bricky, the border wall mascot".

There sure is plenty to vilify the left with, but you are just making excuses for the actions of the right. It doesn't change the fact that you support a president who constantly lies to you (which you can see by his ever changing story from one day to the next), and relies on identity politics to make his base feel better about themselves by constantly vilifying other groups. This is just a basic fact.

The only reason he is pursing the wall is because of the hounding he got from far right media pundits, who make their money convincing fear riddled minds of "Invasions", and "threats", from brown people (you know rapists and murderers) from the south of the border into their country/culture. Trump listens to these people, despite his claim other wise. And even after declaring a national emergency, they are still hounding him. That is funny.

I was definitely addressing Edy, as the subject is not partisan.

I’ve picked up on this part of the quote because you’re collecting Gario’s calling of your argument “unamerican” because he’s on the left/the right/the opposing bi-partisanal “team” you’ve anchored yourself by.

Forget parties.

The emergency order is being called to circumvent a signed-off budget agreement between the White House and the House of Reps. That is the problem, as the House of Reps were also voted in to represent the people in this second half of the presidency, and demonstrates worthlessness of the Senate and House of Reps if the White House can sidestep either to get its way.

Republicans like Marco Rubio are also against the emergency action, despite being supportive of the wall.

I don’t need to hear about hypocritical hypotheticals, as they haven’t happened.

That's not how America works, and to celebrate it makes you un-American.

Declaring a national emergency when there is no emergency (he said he didn't have to do this, which LITERALLY means there is no emergency) is something designed to bypass the Legislative branch, which goes against the balance of powers in America. If you support it, you hate how our founding fathers designed our government, ergo, you're un-American. I'm not randomly insulting you; I'm being descriptive.

You don't declare a national emergency when there is no fucking emergency - the Constitution doesn't give the Executive branch the authority to declare an emergency every goddamn time the Legislative branch doesn't do what it wants.

You're celebrating the President ignoring the will of America and her representatives so that he can do what YOU want. So you can go fuck yourself - you hate America and it's design, and would rather an authoritarian take absolute power on shaky grounds so that his will (and by extension, your will) can overtake the will of America's representatives, dissolving the Constitution in the process.

There's a massive emergency though. Drug and human trafficking. It's the fact that Trump is the only one who wants to actually do anything about it.

That's like believing that the devil really cares about you, when he only cares about what you can give him. And according the the data, most human trafficking comes from across the seas, like most drugs, but I doubt building a wall to prevent it will work there. Also, the walls we do have on the US Mexican border are pretty useless, since they already can climb over it, or dig tunnels under it.

From states, to land owners, to political affiliations, all plan to sue Trump over his declaration of a national emergency to get money, take land, to build his wall.

That's great but that is still the national emergency, like it or not. Trump's the only one wanting to address the issue. Do I think a wall is effective? Of course not but it works for Israel and Saudi, eh.

I think SNL sums this whole thing up pretty nicely: Trump's incoherent rambling speech on it. His claims of lots of data to support his position without using it. His lazer focouse on the wall as the only solution to the problems, which most people know is not practical in this time and age - even you agree with that.

The question then becomes "why?", if Trump can't actually support his position without making an in coherent speech that doesn't make the problem 100 times worse than it really is. The answer is quite simple. He's just using it to keep a campaign promise by using tax payer money to appease the xenophobic portion of his base, who are convinced that immigration, especially from countries of different races, and religions, are a huge threat to their culture, even though you agree that the solution of a wall to solve it is ineffective, all in order to maintain Trump's approval numbers from that base and keep him in power.

As for Israel, we are 473 times bigger than that country, with you agreeing that walls are ineffective. And one of the reasons why Israel built those walls was to reduce terror attacks - which is quite different from the US, with most of it's terror attacks coming from our own citizens or some white guy, not an illegal immigrant. And there is a lot more to the Israeli barrier policy, which was never meant to stop all Palestinian movement into that country, but also include a preemptive terror campaign by Israel soldiers into neighboring Palestinian towns. And then there is also the fact that their are different type of barriers that the Israeli government are pursuing that are quite different than the one Trump is pursuing. Even Israel media sites are pointing out his lies on the wall, because they are so obvious, and downgrades their own reason for a barrier.

You only quoted the part where I state there's no emergency, so you missed the part where Mr. 45 actually said he didn't have to do this to get the fix he wanted. That means that whatever problems there are at the border (of which there are plenty), it isn't an emergency according to the President.

Ergo, he declared a National Emergency when HE believes there is no National Emergency. It is a tyrannical power grab, and he has said as much in his bumbling speeches ("I didn't have to do it. It's just faster this way." - Trump, 2019).

The fact is, he can do plenty to curb trafficking, even outside of Congress. End the drug war (he could do this with a stroke of his fucking pen, would absolutely neuter drug trafficking). Assign the FBI to follow more human trafficking cases, treat them as priority (and hey, added bonus it could distract their investigations into HIM, nice added bonus). Push Congress to create new immigration bills that address these issues. He's simply lazy, ignoring all critics saying his wall would do precisely dick-all at fixing the problem, and is now trying to seize absolute power over the three branches much like a king would.

Frankly, considering you generally are against heavy handed government AcidX, I would've expected you of all people to be against the Executive attempting to assume authority over the other branches of the government and forcing his will in the most draconian, heavy handed, Government-is-now-going-to-steal-private-citizens-land-because-fuck-you way imaginable. There is no bigger government than the declared head bypassing all other authority to steal money from various funds and forcefully declare Emminent Domain to seize people's property, and exercise this force using the USA army (as under a National Emergency that is the only people Mr. 45 can use to execute his demands). Seriously, shit like this is how liberty dies in a Democracy, and you're supporting it because drugs and human trafficking are kind of still a problem (less so than in the past, but still a problem).

Rush Limbaugh, a prominent conservative Republican, and a radio host who has an audience of around 10 million, made it clear what this national emergency is for (which he supports Trump for): According to his own words, this migrant "invasion" represents a threat to "the very existence and definition of American culture".

It is the quickest way. The path of least resistance. He doesn't have to but he knows negotiations aren't going to work and by then, he won't get a chance to make any wall.

Which, I don't blame him. Arguing with those luddite snakes gets you nowhere. Look at brexit negotiations, haven't even begun. You've got to really look at who exactly doesn't want the wall. It's the same people not applauding his efforts on curbing trafficking. So I'm not going to sit here and act like this is a bumbling idiots plan.

Yes, he already has . As shown in the clip I posted. Which points out those who are not applauding . Why? Do they not believe the severity of the problem either? Is a road block like closed borders a big problem for their corruption, possibly?

That's not how it works. FBI are corrupt as hell. That's the only reason they pursue these bogus Russia investigations. They certainly aren't going to tackle these problems. This is the kind of thing where their evidence goes missing and mysterious coincidental deaths start to happen.

The problem is that you listen to the fourth branch. Still owned by the opposition. The safe space. Which is 95% biased against your own President. Why? Of course he ignores those retarded shill critics with their immature egos and guilty consciences. Why would he suddenly start taking their stupid comments to heart?? They're clinging on desperately to their last bastion of power. The propaganda powerhouses.

You've got to look into what the wall really represents . It's not about misinformed racist xenophobia.

Yes normally I am against this kind of thing. But this is for the correct reasons. Which needs to be happening globally. I'd much rather see things done through the proper channels like this, than through violent and bloody revolution. It's anti-draconian. Do you know whom/what the Draco really are? Trump knows what he's doing and it's not communism. The land-grabbing you describe is communism btw.

I don't believe in downplaying this problem. Maybe if you want to understand why, watch this talk from Field McConnell. He covers just about everything I could say on this issue.

Indeed. Lots of these trafficking incidents do occur abroad. Usually when high profile people are on holiday in the same area, with buddies like Clement Freud. Preventing the lower-level crimes, with a cheap and simple solution, frees up more time to investigate the higher level crimes. If you watched any Jon Wedger, you will know that 75% of ALL crime in the UK is committed by someone from one of these backgrounds.

So in theory, this wall has potential to prevent 75% of ALL your crime.

Yet here you are, trying to defend criminals. Why?

Have you ever heard the saying "The road to hell is paved with good intentions"? You are correct to be against authoritarianism; you should follow that instinct rather than abandon it if it's being used to get you something you want (for now).

The land grabbing is called "Eminent Domain", used when the government absolutely needs the property, and it would have to be employed against citizens who own property at the border if the wall was to be built. Unless we're now a communist nation, taking property is just good ol' America being what it is.

Again, your insticts on this particular issue are generally correct. You shouldn't abandon them when someone else is doing it in the name of something you want (for now).

It wouldn't solve anything, so this goes out the window. You even aaid so yourself that you don't think the wall would be effective, so...

Holy Christ, you're off base. Even if 75% of all crime WERE committed in the UK by these folk (which they're probably not, I'm going to go on a limb and call Wedger full of shit on that), you can't take that number and apply it to America. They're two very different places, with very different populations, with migrants committing a fraction of the crimes that occur here.

Fuck off, don't put words in people's mouths like that. That would be like me assuming you're sacrificing any principle you ever had to blindly follow a land-grabbing idiot-fascist because I see him that way. I never accepted everyone crossing were criminals, nor do I accept a stupid wall as being effective at all at keeping bad people out, so I'm not "defending criminals".

It's not polite, so don't start down that path of assuming we agree with your premise - it doesn't end well for either of us.

AcidX, I know you are trying to promote your conspiracies to any suceptible mind out there, by religiously posting about all the evils of Democrats and the FBI (even though you don't live in the US), but do at least try to stay a bit on topic. Also, you already admitted that the wall would be pretty pretty ineffective, but you are still defending it as if it was some sort of great humanitarian thing ever.

Oh yawn. Heaven and hell bullshit when it suits you. If you think Trump is somehow comparably evil to the devil or the antichrist then you are very mistaken. It's like pretending he's the first ever oligarch to hold office.

Yes, it's also a corner stone of communism. Everything owned by the state.

No. I've wanted this for a long, long time. As has anybody paying attention.

I'm afraid you're wrong. Wedger is 100% correct. 75% of all UK crime is committed by people abused as a child. Wedger was a police officer who has looked very in-depth at the stats surrounding abuse and crime. I can't imagine America is far different, given how similar it is. At lowest, it'll be 50%. Or does it have to be about race? Why did you think I was saying migrants? Wedger doesn't care about migrants. He's half Pakistani. Do you understand what human trafficking is and how serious of a problem it is?

Well that's double standards. You're allowed to misquote trump and put words in his mouth. So I'm allowed to say you're defending criminals.

Again, the criminals are not only the ones crossing the border or doing the trafficking. That's a distraction, created by real criminals in your political parties and NGOs. This happens to be the most effective way of exposing them. They have fought Trump every single step of the way.

You won't agree with anything I say until it's spouted on your telly box by some twat in a suit, so I'm not that bothered .

Lol EdyKel. I know you're trying to promote hatred and division to any susceptible mind out there but please stop chatting shit. Where's your evidence to the contrary? This is on topic. Those criminals are the national emergency . You dumb idiots are the ones believing the media narrative that this has to be about racism or immigration alone.

It's nothing to do with the shit bill that Trump signed on the same day he declared a state of emergency is it? A shit bill that didn't offer no funding and prevents closure of borders, or building of barriers.

A state of emergency lets him bypass all that bureaucratic bullshit in place, which exists to protect those criminals. He signed the bull bill as it meant no shutdown.

It's really very simple when you stop making shit up about migrants or Russia.

Oh. You want authoritarianism, when the strong man is doing what you want?

Well in that case this conversation is over; nothing constructive comes from facism. You're as much a waste of time as I first suspected.

Fuck off, you hypocritical, lowlife facist. I'd rather not give up my liberty for your percieved and temporary power based on cultish delusion and fantasy.