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Update: Commissions, Tags, Projects

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Response to Update: Commissions, Tags, Projects 2018-12-17 03:21:53


At 12/14/18 12:36 PM, Luis wrote:
At 12/14/18 07:45 AM, AdventVoice wrote:
It aint fixed, im still seeing swf only even when i click or unclick the options

You should check it now.

also first post, but fix.

Nice first post.

At 12/14/18 12:42 PM, Knights wrote: How along is that coming now, Nightmare Cops? I'd love to hear about an update soon! Can't wait to play it on Steam.

An update would be great. I will give it a try.

Also, cool that you refined the search engine! Was kind of hard finding stuff on there, it seemed more clunky than other sites

Yes, it does work much better now.

At 12/14/18 12:47 PM, GoodL wrote: Checked my account settings - I should be getting mp4 by default, but the Metal Gear Awesome project auto-loaded the swf for me as well.

Try refreshing it.

Aside from that little quirk, I'm loving all the updates rolling out lately. I'm happy to see NG doing so well.

Plenty of updates to make it all better.


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Response to Update: Commissions, Tags, Projects 2018-12-17 03:53:13


At 12/16/18 11:17 AM, scasdog wrote:
At 12/16/18 08:34 AM, Cyberdevil wrote: But that'd be like writing a book with no title to me. It just won't seem complete until you have one. Might require some extra effort to brainstorm a good one, but to me that's part of the process, just like any other part of the polishing you put into it. The title's what explains the art. Or clues. Or gives a glimpse. That in some way conveys the artist's intention, or theme, or reference.
I understand your point and I get what you mean, even agree to some extent, but that's just personal opinion.

The fact is most artists don't title their drawings and I don't see the point of forcing them to do so. If the title gives meaning or makes it complete it's completely unrelated, as right now artists are forced to do so, instead of being given the choice.

At 12/16/18 08:34 AM, Cyberdevil wrote: I know Twitter and Tumblr don't work the same way, but they are more like streams aren't they? Where you don't focus so much on individual pieces but just go with the flow. More like a show of progress and inspiration than a real showcase where you can go in and study stuff in detail.
It's up to the artist to treat their twitter/tumblr the way they prefer. Some artists treat it like streams, others make a "real showcase where you can go in and study stuff in detail".
The point is artists treat and like to share their stuff in their own way, each with their own rhythm and approach. Forcing them into a specific streamline of sharing is exactly what drove lots of people off deviantart.

But then we'd have the problem of reduced findability. In the art part of artists' pages, we have the thing saying what their best piece of the year is. If it has no title, that's a bit of a problem, no? Titles just make stuff easier to find in a system where you have to search for things via search bar and which isn't basically one huge feed.


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Response to Update: Commissions, Tags, Projects 2018-12-17 08:17:00


At 12/17/18 01:02 AM, GeoKureli wrote:
At 12/14/18 07:36 AM, TomFulp wrote: If you see an SWF
Tom, I did a survey, you're weird for saying "an SWF" instead of "a SWF" pronounced swiff. I just wanted you to know that

I mentally pronounce if S - W - F... I guess a lot of people pronounce it Swif though.


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Response to Update: Commissions, Tags, Projects 2018-12-17 09:32:10


Post 69

sorry, I couldn't resists.

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welp, today's the day
i wonder if there will be more coming jumping here today?

and.... what would happen if twitter also ban porn?

Response to Update: Commissions, Tags, Projects 2018-12-17 11:44:26


It defaulted to mp4 for me, with the swf option un-checked


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Response to Update: Commissions, Tags, Projects 2018-12-17 11:47:45


At 12/17/18 11:30 AM, gharz wrote: welp, today's the day
i wonder if there will be more coming jumping here today?

and.... what would happen if twitter also ban porn?

Hopefully NG will be ready with all these sweet sweet updates.


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Response to Update: Commissions, Tags, Projects 2018-12-17 11:58:26


At 12/17/18 11:44 AM, Afro-Ninja wrote: It defaulted to mp4 for me, with the swf option un-checked

mine still shows swf version no matter what. fix my account tom.

Update: Commissions, Tags, Projects


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At 12/16/18 11:17 AM, scasdog wrote: I understand your point and I get what you mean, even agree to some extent, but that's just personal opinion.

Yes of course, though aren't all opinions personal, by minority or no?

The fact is most artists don't title their drawings and I don't see the point of forcing them to do so. If the title gives meaning or makes it complete it's completely unrelated, as right now artists are forced to do so, instead of being given the choice.

Saying most artists don't title their drawings... curious what source you have on this? Is that in regard to Tumblr and Twitter specifically? Could it be that it's simply a social norm there to not title your work, and so people have started to avoid doing so? I think a lot of practices like this change depending on what communities allow, and not necessarily for the better, but the less you need to do the less you do.

Taking the review example again, we actually have reviews here, whereas most communities have adopted a comment culture instead, which usually isn't half as beneficial for the artist. Not adding a title: is this really the right way to go, or is this just the easiest way to go?

If they made tests voluntary in school, do you think most students would take them? Does that mean it's better without tests? I don't think the easy way is always a benefit. In terms of creating: making something good isn't easy. It's an art.

It's up to the artist to treat their twitter/tumblr the way they prefer. Some artists treat it like streams, others make a "real showcase where you can go in and study stuff in detail".
The point is artists treat and like to share their stuff in their own way, each with their own rhythm and approach. Forcing them into a specific streamline of sharing is exactly what drove lots of people off deviantart.

Well we haven't changed anything here. It's always been like this, and I know the it's-always-been-good-so-why-make-it-better argument doesn't hold any merit, but understand we're not forcing anything upon anyone here. It's different, for both good and bad. Bad for simplicity maybe, but good for exposure. Each artwork has its own space. It's not just part of that endless content stream by default that people mindlessly flick through; only occasionally stop to take a second look at something. It's easy to make a place more about the content than the creators, but I feel like it's details like this that show we still haven't taken that route. And also:

At 12/17/18 03:53 AM, TheReviewTrickster wrote: But then we'd have the problem of reduced findability. In the art part of artists' pages, we have the thing saying what their best piece of the year is. If it has no title, that's a bit of a problem, no? Titles just make stuff easier to find in a system where you have to search for things via search bar and which isn't basically one huge feed.

...this is a pretty good point too. It'd affect search and readability, not to mention SEO. What would the URL be for an artwork with no name? How would someone find it on Google if they don't have anything to go by but say submission ID, or a generic template rather than a title? Even if the title's not incredibly thought-out and closely tied to the submission, it serves a function in regard to finding it. Just like the thumb it's a useful tool in marketing your work too.

But if people do prefer to not have a title at all it's easy to add a No Title or Untitled as the title. At least that way the decision to make it nameless is an intentional one, and the easy way not the default. But of course, this is all my opinion, not sure it'll be enough to convince you if you're accustomed to a different way but... I believe this is the best one. It's almost like religion huh. :)


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At 12/16/18 10:57 AM, KrabbytheArtist wrote: Hello, I don't know if I can ask things around here, but I'd like a way to warn people that you are online doing a livestream on Picarto, Piczel or even on Twitch.

Gotta second this! Like the recent commissions note this could be really useful. Maybe the same bit of code being made for the artists-accepting-commissions list could be used to build up a list of active live streams too...?

Thinking maybe a 'I'm streaming now' option with a time limit that automatically toggles itself off when the time is up could be handy here. Or just a list of most recent ## of users who clicked a button to show they're streaming. Wouldn't be as much of an issue with inactive streams on the list with something like that. Could maybe add in a field for a direct link to their stream too, and then have a little blob pop up under/beside their name everywhere linking there if/when they're active...

At 12/17/18 01:02 AM, GeoKureli wrote: Tom, I did a survey, you're weird for saying "an SWF" instead of "a SWF" pronounced swiff. I just wanted you to know that

Just gotta say I've always pronounced that S W F too. XD It's the oldskool way huh...


The latest: Hexa #95 (Mar)

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Response to Update: Commissions, Tags, Projects 2018-12-17 17:14:35


At 12/16/18 04:50 PM, ElkDarkshire wrote: A Trial Mode to check out the Chat for a specific duration (24 active hours or so) would be interesting.

It's almost like that 30 day paid trial you get if you sign up as a monthly subscriber *hint hint*. ;)


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Response to Update: Commissions, Tags, Projects 2018-12-17 20:16:50


At 12/14/18 01:34 PM, Hesiolite wrote: More and more users are becoming supporters,and that's good for NG,I hope it keeps going like this.

It seems to be the trend.

By the way, aren't you exhausted from working at the same time on updating the site and developping Nightmare Cops ?

You have to be active to keep things running smooth.

At 12/14/18 02:01 PM, TomFulp wrote:
@PsychoGoldfish and @liljim do the actual NG programming so on the programming front I just have to worry about NC. NG can still be really time consuming with everything else though, especially these past few weeks!

NewGrounds can be time consuming for the users as well. The more you put in, the more you get out.

At 12/14/18 02:02 PM, Cyberdevil wrote: Can confirm. Checked the submission before I checked that box under display options. Not sure what I had checked before, though, so it's possible this confirmation is highly irrelevant and/or misleading...

You just have to play around with it. See which version you like best.

Awesome news overall! Regarding the hyphen/underscore thing I personally prefer hyphens. That's how things work online to me, it mimics the way you write everything naturally with URLs and such. Underscores seemed more common back in the day, with files as well, but I thought the balance shifted.

That is a good point. It should really be changed and all updated.

Also curious what happened to the stretch goal bar? Saw it appear for a short while too.

I think it could make a return at some point?

And this! Awesome to hear there's a plan there.

A plan makes it work out well.


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At 12/17/18 03:53 AM, TheReviewTrickster wrote: But then we'd have the problem of reduced findability. In the art part of artists' pages, we have the thing saying what their best piece of the year is. If it has no title, that's a bit of a problem, no? Titles just make stuff easier to find in a system where you have to search for things via search bar and which isn't basically one huge feed.

This is actually a very good point. I guess that would be a problem.

At 12/17/18 05:11 PM, Cyberdevil wrote: But of course, this is all my opinion, not sure it'll be enough to convince you if you're accustomed to a different way but... I believe this is the best one. It's almost like religion huh. :)

No, I'm pretty much convinced. While it is more convenient to not title stuff (imo), some strong counter arguments were brought up for something I never thought being urgent or a massive necessity.

At 12/17/18 05:11 PM, Cyberdevil wrote: But if people do prefer to not have a title at all it's easy to add a No Title or Untitled as the title.

My suggestion would be, if you don't type any title, the filename becomes the title. But again, I' not not gonna argue in favor of this because at this point I'm pretty much convinced it's fine the way it is.

Thanks for taking your time to respond to me, it was very nice to have some discussion.


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Response to Update: Commissions, Tags, Projects 2018-12-18 06:43:34


At 12/17/18 08:28 PM, scasdog wrote: No, I'm pretty much convinced. While it is more convenient to not title stuff (imo), some strong counter arguments were brought up for something I never thought being urgent or a massive necessity.

Aha, well I'm happy to hear it. :D I do agree on convenience. It's a bit like publishing your work, in that it's easier not to... but you really reach more people if you do! Usually.

My suggestion would be, if you don't type any title, the filename becomes the title. But again, I' not not gonna argue in favor of this because at this point I'm pretty much convinced it's fine the way it is.

Thanks for taking your time to respond to me, it was very nice to have some discussion.

Oh, that'd work. Some people do use their filenames as titles too. Luis and Krinkels for example pretty much made that their thing with certain forms of content. I'd be OK with that if this does get changed. Best of both worlds.

When I started reading that I was thinking you'd say if you don't type any title the filename becomes Untitlted, btw. That'd work too. Whichever way's better. Maybe you could have a choice which you prefer if you leave the field blank. Wondering if everyone would be happy to have their filename as title, if that's something they write with the public in mind or as more of a personal reference some times... then again maybe all this would overcomplicate... seems like it could be a good compromise if done well...

Likewise! Always interesting to get new perspectives too, and have to think a bit about if the current way is really the best way or no. All too easy to just stop thinking progressively.

At 12/17/18 08:16 PM, DoctorStrongbad wrote: I think it could make a return at some point?

Would be cool if it did! Though Tom did explain why it's no longer a thing a few responses back.


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Response to Update: Commissions, Tags, Projects 2018-12-18 11:19:38


At 12/14/18 02:40 PM, Cyberdevil wrote: Handy info!

Yes, it really is.

I added that when I realized the monthly goal capped at 100% but then I realized descriptions weren't showing up anymore so it felt out of place and I yanked it. It still wasn't a clear indicator of how much over 100% we were.

It was harder to understand it that way.

Aha. Thought it might've been an automatic feature now manually removed! Good to know. I suppose stretch goals are a currently scrapped feature then? They seemed useful too, if only with some incentive or goal with that final stretch.

Stretch goals have now been removed?

At 12/14/18 02:42 PM, Cyberdevil wrote:
At 12/14/18 02:17 PM, DoctorStrongbad wrote: As we say in America " America, hell yeah. "
These cultural clashes. XD

You know how it is.

At 12/14/18 03:39 PM, Stupor wrote: Awesome to see so much active development! Keep hustlin!

The active developments keep rolling on out.


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Response to Update: Commissions, Tags, Projects 2018-12-19 01:33:21


At 12/17/18 05:11 PM, Cyberdevil wrote: Saying most artists don't title their drawings... curious what source you have on this? Is that in regard to Tumblr and Twitter specifically? Could it be that it's simply a social norm there to not title your work, and so people have started to avoid doing so? I think a lot of practices like this change depending on what communities allow, and not necessarily for the better, but the less you need to do the less you do.


As an artist with many accounts, including twitter and tumblr (the latter is gone though), I want to put my two cents. Of course it's not "most" by any means. Yeah, a large amount of artists do not use titles and/or tags and do not provide any commentary on their works, and yet there's a decent amount of artists doing the opposite. Twitter and tumblr pretty much force you to post works without titles - if you want one, you have to write in the post itself. (and twitter is not suited for showcasing artworks to begin with, really)

Seconding @TheReviewTrickster, it affects findability greatly. It's not exciting to stumble upon an untitled/untagged piece of art, it's frustrating because you realise your finding was absolutely random and it's buried somewhere among countless other nameless works. And it's just as disappointing to see some works here on Newgrounds having no clear title and no tags.


But I'd like to to respectfully disagree on this. The reviews.


Taking the review example again, we actually have reviews here, whereas most communities have adopted a comment culture instead, which usually isn't half as beneficial for the artist. Not adding a title: is this really the right way to go, or is this just the easiest way to go?


First of all, I know I'm new here, and you have your own culture on Newgrounds. The last thing I want to do is sound demanding. After all, I'm used to work with multiple platforms, exploiting their advantages and finding a workaround for the weak spots, but since there's already some discussion on changes and improvements taking place here and there, this feedback might be of use... maybe.


The review feature might be cool, but I'd like to point out a lot of users do not use it as intended. Yeah, many people try to actually give some kind of constructive feedback, which is very nice. However, there's still a plenty of people treating review section as a comment section and using it to express their excitement, or confusion, or disgust, whatever (speaking of Shadman, god forbid, eh). It is a feedback on its own, but is it a review?

Also, even if we ignore "reviews" like "Cool" or "Looks nice" or anything like this, there's still another problem.

Newgrounds has forums, and it's awesome compared to some other websites. However, sometimes you want to discuss the artwork itself, and the most convenient place for a conversation is right beside this exact artwork (or any other type of content, basically). So far I've seen people sometimes edit their reviews to add something if the author replies them, but you can't go far with that. Comments threads are cool for works discussions and anything that might feel awkward (for example) to ask via PM or in a personal post (if an authors happens to have one). Perhaps Deviantart might be a good example of how this can be handled.


Yet again, that's how I percept it right now. Probably I don't quite grasp the very concept how the whole thing is supposed to work.

Response to Update: Commissions, Tags, Projects 2018-12-19 04:51:43


At 12/19/18 01:33 AM, Ryouhiko-Ankuu wrote:
At 12/17/18 05:11 PM, Cyberdevil wrote:
But I'd like to to respectfully disagree on this. The reviews.

Taking the review example again, we actually have reviews here, whereas most communities have adopted a comment culture instead, which usually isn't half as beneficial for the artist. Not adding a title: is this really the right way to go, or is this just the easiest way to go?
First of all, I know I'm new here, and you have your own culture on Newgrounds. The last thing I want to do is sound demanding. After all, I'm used to work with multiple platforms, exploiting their advantages and finding a workaround for the weak spots, but since there's already some discussion on changes and improvements taking place here and there, this feedback might be of use... maybe.

The review feature might be cool, but I'd like to point out a lot of users do not use it as intended. Yeah, many people try to actually give some kind of constructive feedback, which is very nice. However, there's still a plenty of people treating review section as a comment section and using it to express their excitement, or confusion, or disgust, whatever (speaking of Shadman, god forbid, eh). It is a feedback on its own, but is it a review?
Also, even if we ignore "reviews" like "Cool" or "Looks nice" or anything like this, there's still another problem.
Newgrounds has forums, and it's awesome compared to some other websites. However, sometimes you want to discuss the artwork itself, and the most convenient place for a conversation is right beside this exact artwork (or any other type of content, basically). So far I've seen people sometimes edit their reviews to add something if the author replies them, but you can't go far with that. Comments threads are cool for works discussions and anything that might feel awkward (for example) to ask via PM or in a personal post (if an authors happens to have one). Perhaps Deviantart might be a good example of how this can be handled.

Yet again, that's how I percept it right now. Probably I don't quite grasp the very concept how the whole thing is supposed to work.


This is actually a good point, and you're not the first to have pointed it out. However, this would be very tricky. Because reviews really are important. If we allowed comment/review threads, it would get harder for the creator to find the legit criticism. We would have to enforce stronger rules or make it so that you can only have one of those discussions with the creator, and not anyone else. Even then, the review space would get crowded and it could turn into a mess.


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At 12/19/18 01:33 AM, Ryouhiko-Ankuu wrote: Twitter and tumblr pretty much force you to post works without titles - if you want one, you have to write in the post itself. (and twitter is not suited for showcasing artworks to begin with, really)


That's good to know, though sad to hear. Seems like the kind of community culture that might really make people forget how useful these little tidbits of text really are; adhere to less favorable structuring practices in the ebb and flow of online content... glad we agree on most of this! In regard to findability too.


The review feature might be cool, but I'd like to point out a lot of users do not use it as intended. Yeah, many people try to actually give some kind of constructive feedback, which is very nice. However, there's still a plenty of people treating review section as a comment section and using it to express their excitement, or confusion, or disgust, whatever (speaking of Shadman, god forbid, eh). It is a feedback on its own, but is it a review?


Appreciate the initial feedback humility. :) Feedback's always welcome, and you're right, users leaving useless 'reviews' is a bit of a problem these days. I blame other social communities for this too, and the like/affirmation culture they've adopted. Users affirm rather than analyze, and somewhere along the line NG stopped placing too high standards on reviews, maybe because the amounts were dropping, maybe because they realized what an impact other communities had on this particular form of content; maybe because just a simple affirmation's still better than nothing, right?


We do have a little clique that actually do review things, a couple of crews for it too, but I agree, they're few and far between compared to the stream of just regular comments. Not sure what we could do about this though... maybe some form of encouragement based on length of reviews rather than amounts?


Though just writing nonsense wouldn't be very helpful either. Better concise feedback than plain filler.


I'm hoping people will just be inspired by the reviews they see, and artists in particular realize their benefit; write some of their own too. If there are enough actual reviews then users who leave shorter comments might feel pointed out and write a bit longer too. Or they'd just stop commenting altogether... which wouldn't be too good either. :/ Seems we have a decent balance compared to other places though. Hope it goes the right way. I'm just happy to see people writing really, though the better the better!


Also, even if we ignore "reviews" like "Cool" or "Looks nice" or anything like this, there's still another problem.
Newgrounds has forums, and it's awesome compared to some other websites. However, sometimes you want to discuss the artwork itself, and the most convenient place for a conversation is right beside this exact artwork (or any other type of content, basically). So far I've seen people sometimes edit their reviews to add something if the author replies them, but you can't go far with that. Comments threads are cool for works discussions and anything that might feel awkward (for example) to ask via PM or in a personal post (if an authors happens to have one). Perhaps Deviantart might be a good example of how this can be handled.


Threaded reviews have been discussed and suggested a bit too, but doesn't seem like something staff are really willing to pick up. I'm assuming they don't want to turn reviews into a forum but more so keep the structure we have now, where you can leave feedback and move on; responding via PM if you want to continue the discussion. Threads do seem useful in cases there are a lot of bugs to iron out but... I don't know. I like the simplicity with the current system too. Submissions that really require a lot of back and forth might need to better tested before they're submitted, if it's that kind of submission. We do have a beta tester feature too. The project system allows anyone to invite in any amount of users before submission so you can really go through things in advance. I feel like threaded reviews might take away the 'review' aspect, and turn it into more of a YT comment area. Which doesn't seem to be working so well over there...


Yet again, that's how I percept it right now. Probably I don't quite grasp the very concept how the whole thing is supposed to work.


All valid feedback. I guess my main argument here is that a real review is more of a finite piece if written correctly, and it's an easy system where you just have one review/one response per submission. Maybe it makes you make the most of that particular space you're allotted. Maybe I'm just scared of change though and threads really would be fantastic.


They recently added the option for multiple authors to respond to the same review too, so maybe this is something under consideration too.


At 12/19/18 04:51 AM, TheReviewTrickster wrote: Even then, the review space would get crowded and it could turn into a mess.


Regarding this, I think it could be solved pretty easily by just add a (more...) link or similar for any reviews that turn into a full-on discussion. Just show the initial reviews/responses like usual, so you have to expand those to actually delve into a particular thread. But whether all this is good or no hmmmmmm...


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Response to Update: Commissions, Tags, Projects 2018-12-19 13:15:34


At 12/14/18 05:11 PM, Cyberdevil wrote:
At 12/14/18 03:17 PM, TomFulp wrote: especially if we just end up going with a daily goal like Reddit to sustain overall active supporter growth.
Good to know! It does seem to work.


That makes sense, and yes it does seem to work.


At 12/14/18 05:21 PM, SketchyAnt wrote: The commissions option seems like that could be very useful for this site! I might have to try and do that early next year.


It should be great for all the artists. The newer ones will really get a chance to explore NewGrounds be using it


At 12/14/18 06:42 PM, JosephStarr wrote: Would it be possible to filter out tags?
Kind-of like a tag blacklist, I feel that it would be even more efficient than hiding an entire users content.


That is a good suggestion. Make hiding things quicker and faster.


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Response to Update: Commissions, Tags, Projects 2018-12-19 18:54:52


At 12/17/18 05:11 PM, Cyberdevil wrote:



If they made tests voluntary in school, do you think most students would take them? Does that mean it's better without tests? I don't think the easy way is always a benefit. In terms of creating: making something good isn't easy. It's an art.

Reminds me of an experiment a past art teacher did some years prior to the current class to see how students would respond. He was curious to see how students would approach their work if he reviewed instead of graded each assignment. Some students didn't this while others did because it helped them focus on their assignments more rather than on a grade they haven't received yet.


Possibly one of the coolest teachers you could have in college that combined learning and fun time seamlessly together.

Response to Update: Commissions, Tags, Projects 2018-12-20 05:47:00


At 12/19/18 06:54 PM, TopazAzul wrote: Reminds me of an experiment a past art teacher did some years prior to the current class to see how students would respond. He was curious to see how students would approach their work if he reviewed instead of graded each assignment. Some students didn't this while others did because it helped them focus on their assignments more rather than on a grade they haven't received yet.

Possibly one of the coolest teachers you could have in college that combined learning and fun time seamlessly together.


Yeah I wish I'd had a teacher like that. :) I'd definitely appreciate a review more than just a grade. In a Creative Writing course I took the grading always came with a few comments at least, always good critique, not full-out reviews but sure was appreciated. Nice story.


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Response to Update: Commissions, Tags, Projects 2018-12-20 11:54:55


At 12/14/18 08:32 PM, JosephStarr wrote: That's cool, good to see you guys still keepin' it up despite the crazy influx of users.
Elastic cluster, sounds fancy! Are you sure it's not a doomsday weapon?


The influx of new users is awesome, and will only motivate people.


At 12/14/18 08:51 PM, Psychopath wrote:
At 12/14/18 07:36 AM, TomFulp wrote: The Smash Collab has an interactive menu by @IvanAlmighty but NG didn't have an option to publish HTML5 projects as movies, so that was changed in recent weeks (invite only).
You're kidding, right? How are you supposed to get "invited" into being allowed to upload HTML5 videos? This isn't an extension of the scouting system is it?


That is a great question. Things should be explained better.


At 12/14/18 09:05 PM, HuntaKilla wrote: I see the SWF with the play button and my display options look like this:


That is a helpful display set up.


2



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