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NGADM - Announcement Thread

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MetalRenard
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NGADM - Announcement Thread 2018-06-03 10:21:33 Reply

Well... It's here! NGADM TIME!
The competition is starting a bit later this year as it will be a little smaller. Here are my thoughts on NGADM 2018.
Click here to participate: NGADM Submissions Thread

Rounds and time frame:
Submission round: NOW until 1st July. 1 week judging to reduce numbers down to 36.

ROUND 1!
12 sets of 3. Winner advances.
8th July - 22nd July. (2 weeks*)
1 week judging.

ROUND 2!
4 sets of 3. Winner advances.
29th July – 19th August. (3 weeks)
1 week judging.

FINAL ROUND!
All-out battle between the remaining 4.
26th August – 16th September.
1 week judging.

Contest results: End of September.

Participation:
Submissions - All welcome. Teams of 2 allowed.
This will be a simple system to root out submissions efficiently to save on judge time as this tends to be a huge process otherwise. Judges will say Aye or Nay, those with the most Ayes make it into the competition. A tie will result in judges battling it out to find a victor.
Don’t worry if you don’t make it through, I know that @TaintedLogic is running NGAUC just after the submission judging period is over. You will get a chance to take part somewhere!

HELP NEEDED!
Organiser:
I am running the show, sure, but I DEFINITELY need someone to be my equal to help out and make sure I don’t mess up too. I am also moving countries in the middle of the competition this year (hence * this round being short). Please PM me for this or nominate people below.
Judges:
Please nominate yourself or others to be a judge below. Minimum requirements – to have been a member for a few years, somewhat active in the community and have basic knowledge of “good” composition, production etc..
Artists:
To design the cover, to make signatures for the winners.
Generous donors:
To give prizes for the winners. I will put forward some games but I’d like to be able to give something away to the top 3.
YOU:
Yes, you. You are needed to be awesome, share, get excited, have a party, provide jokes and laughs and just help keep NGADM alive.

Things I have to say:
Firstly, I have never run NGADM before although I have been a judge and an extra judge in the past a few times so I have some experience. However, please forgive me if I make a mistake and help out as best you can to make this competition amazing. Like I said, I am moving countries during NGADM so I will need to rely on someone else to help at times (although I’ve planned it so I am available for each judging section and announcement).

Hmm… What have I forgotten? Ah yes!
Name dumping section:
People who have shown interest or have participated in the past. Sorry if I miss (tons of) people. Feel free to call on others below!
@RealFaction @TaintedLogic
@Step @Echo
@BrokenDeck @Breed
@Pure-Metal-UTA @Morph94
@RobinDB @djInTheDark
@Back-From-Purgatory @Buoy
@SkyeWint @alternativesolution
@bassfiddlejones @samulis
@Neon-Bard @headphoamz
@midimachine @stunkel
@Geoplex @johnfn
@Neon-Bard @Artist-Lost
@Rhunyc @Kuoke
@PeterSatera @InvisibleObserver
@camoshark @gadogry
@SourJovis @etherealwinds
@Numi @bassfiddlejones
@joshgawaldomusic @garlagan
@johnfn @Kor-Rune @ProudAardvark
@Buoy @Blackhole12
@Phonometrologist @UltraMX
@LucidShadowDreamer
@AeronMusic @MrSmash64
@Troisnyx @LunyAlex
@alternativesolution @PirateCrab
@ZipZipper @SteamPianist
@Bosa @JacobCadmus
@Oakwood @I0TA
@1f1n1ty @ninjamuffin
Last but not least… @TomFulp


Rocker, Composer and World Ambassador for Foxes! I'm on Youtube. Veteran REAPER user. Production Director on NGAP15 - ask me for anything you need.

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TaintedLogic
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Response to NGADM - Announcement Thread 2018-06-03 10:26:08 Reply

Ah, sorry...are we doing an AIM type of thing where the submission thread is only for submissions and not commentary? I kinda already broke that rule...


"Reflect on your evils, lest they reflect on you." ~A Magic card lol --- Formerly "TheDoor6"

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MetalRenard
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Response to NGADM - Announcement Thread 2018-06-03 10:32:45 Reply

At 6/3/18 10:26 AM, TaintedLogic wrote: Ah, sorry...are we doing an AIM type of thing where the submission thread is only for submissions and not commentary? I kinda already broke that rule...

Actually that's a great idea and makes life much easier. YES! Let's do that. Don't worry though. ^_^


Rocker, Composer and World Ambassador for Foxes! I'm on Youtube. Veteran REAPER user. Production Director on NGAP15 - ask me for anything you need.

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Spadezer
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Response to NGADM - Announcement Thread 2018-06-03 10:39:40 Reply

Commence the start of the hype trian!!!!!


Don't worry, I'm judging you.

......if you're currently in either NGADM or NGUAC. No pressure. :)

RealFaction
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Response to NGADM - Announcement Thread 2018-06-03 15:09:41 Reply

At 6/3/18 10:21 AM, MetalRenard wrote: Well... It's here! NGADM TIME!
The competition is starting a bit later this year as it will be a little smaller. Here are my thoughts on NGADM 2018.

Thank you for taking this on. I really appreciate it. I know you'll do well. If this is the last year for NGADM, may it be so, it's had a long run. Hopefully that won't be the case though. I won't be participating but thank you. You can speak with @ninjamuffin99 and @I0TA about potential prizes if they have any left, I can't remember who had games left over after AIM prizes are handed out. But yeah.

I hope you do well. You've done a lot of great things for NG.

ninjamuffin99
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Response to NGADM - Announcement Thread 2018-06-03 15:30:12 Reply

At 6/3/18 03:09 PM, RealFaction wrote:
At 6/3/18 10:21 AM, MetalRenard wrote: Well... It's here! NGADM TIME!
The competition is starting a bit later this year as it will be a little smaller. Here are my thoughts on NGADM 2018.
You can speak with @ninjamuffin99 and @I0TA about potential prizes if they have any left, I can't remember who had games left over after AIM prizes are handed out. But yeah.

ayy yeah I got some games left over from AIM and whatnot that I can hook you up with! I'll PM you a list @MetalRenard


#BringBackBeardFulp || RIP STATICSKULL

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Sequenced
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Response to NGADM - Announcement Thread 2018-06-03 16:06:12 Reply

We should pick judges that have a fundamental knowledge of certain genres.

i.e. X should judge electronic music / EDM
X should judge metal
X should judge classical/orchestra

etc..

last year was kinda chaotic without that.


lel

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MetalRenard
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At 6/3/18 04:06 PM, Sequenced wrote: We should pick judges that have a fundamental knowledge of certain genres.
i.e. X should judge electronic music / EDM
X should judge metal
X should judge classical/orchestra

This is a good idea. Personally I have a broad range of knowledge but I am most definitely not an electronic music producer even if I dabble in retro and synthpop/synthwave at times and have written many soundtrack style songs (read: orchestral).

Anyone else have other ideas about this? Personally I think a blend would be good. Maybe each person puts forward their main genre and their votes have more weight? Mine would be anything guitar based from pop/rock to metal.

Thanks for your contribution.

At 6/3/18 03:30 PM, ninjamuffin99 wrote: ayy yeah I got some games left over from AIM and whatnot that I can hook you up with! I'll PM you a list @MetalRenard

Thank you, this would be amazing!

At 6/3/18 03:09 PM, RealFaction wrote: Heart warming stuff

Truly, it's an honour. Thank you. I hope to live up to your vision!


Rocker, Composer and World Ambassador for Foxes! I'm on Youtube. Veteran REAPER user. Production Director on NGAP15 - ask me for anything you need.

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neBSounds
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Response to NGADM - Announcement Thread 2018-06-03 16:43:28 Reply

Sorry I'm new to this competition but would like to take part, what are the rules? Is it just one original composition per round? Can it be any genre?

Thanks!!


Do you like pork sausages?

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MetalRenard
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At 6/3/18 04:43 PM, neBSounds wrote: Sorry I'm new to this competition but would like to take part, what are the rules? Is it just one original composition per round? Can it be any genre?

Apart from this first "get your foot in the door" round, you will need to make something new every round. Any genre is welcome, no limitations are put in place except that it must be original (not a cover or remix).


Rocker, Composer and World Ambassador for Foxes! I'm on Youtube. Veteran REAPER user. Production Director on NGAP15 - ask me for anything you need.

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I0TA
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Response to NGADM - Announcement Thread 2018-06-03 22:30:26 Reply

I0ta, REPORT FOR DUTY.

I got a lot of prizes, check with @realfaction he knows the prize list.


I have no one style.
- Oscar Peterson

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Response to NGADM - Announcement Thread 2018-06-03 22:32:33 Reply

Also I got Destiny 2 for the top guy.


I have no one style.
- Oscar Peterson

RealFaction
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Response to NGADM - Announcement Thread 2018-06-04 01:39:10 Reply

At 6/3/18 10:30 PM, I0TA wrote: I0ta, REPORT FOR DUTY.

I got a lot of prizes, check with @realfaction he knows the prize list.

didn't i send you the list back though? were there some i saved for NGADM? check your pms maybe lol. Maybe that was ninjamuffin..idk. Really it's best if he talks to you guys because i remember i had mentioned what games i was using for AIM and not using to you guys or maybe just ninja. You guys gotta keep track of that.

JordanKyser
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I am so ready for this

Also, I will call @TheFantasticZ and @ELEPS44 for this... maybe, @ELEPS44 could collab with me if he wanted to! :D


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Response to NGADM - Announcement Thread 2018-06-04 09:46:06 Reply

Best of luck to all and sundry!

You're gonna need it.

NGADM - Announcement Thread

TheFantasticZ
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Response to NGADM - Announcement Thread 2018-06-04 12:11:24 Reply

Are older collabs able to be posted?

MetalRenard
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At 6/4/18 12:11 PM, TheFantasticZ wrote: Are older collabs able to be posted?

Are you planning to work as a team with someone? Did you lead on at least 50% of the end result if not?
Basically, I don't want to make the competition unfair. If you're entering as a team we need to know that the submission you put forward is realistically what you can do. You can make a call on those grounds.

Thanks to everyone offering up prizes! Anyone know of any artists? Also we need judges, nominate some people!
Anyone up for the Co-Coordinator job?


Rocker, Composer and World Ambassador for Foxes! I'm on Youtube. Veteran REAPER user. Production Director on NGAP15 - ask me for anything you need.

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TheFantasticZ
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Response to NGADM - Announcement Thread 2018-06-04 15:05:25 Reply

Oh ok, that makes sense :P

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MetalRenard
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Response to NGADM - Announcement Thread 2018-06-04 15:20:30 Reply

At 6/4/18 03:10 PM, TheFantasticZ wrote: https://www.newgrounds.com/audio/listen/809035?updated=1528139379

Did you mean to post this in the Submissions Thread?


Rocker, Composer and World Ambassador for Foxes! I'm on Youtube. Veteran REAPER user. Production Director on NGAP15 - ask me for anything you need.

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JordanKyser
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Response to NGADM - Announcement Thread 2018-06-04 16:34:17 Reply

At 6/4/18 03:20 PM, MetalRenard wrote:
At 6/4/18 03:10 PM, TheFantasticZ wrote: https://www.newgrounds.com/audio/listen/809035?updated=1528139379
Did you mean to post this in the Submissions Thread?

I have no idea what that was.

I do know what you were asking him, and I know what song he is talking about (Plasma Sword, I collaborated with him on that song). I did just under 50% of that song, so it should be okay for him to submit it to NGADM.


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TaintedLogic
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At 6/3/18 04:23 PM, MetalRenard wrote:
At 6/3/18 04:06 PM, Sequenced wrote: We should pick judges that have a fundamental knowledge of certain genres.
Anyone else have other ideas about this?

I don't think this is a very good idea. Music should be judged on its ability to appeal to a wide variety of audiences, not just people with niche tastes. Besides, the genre a piece falls into can be pretty subjective. Who's going to decide the genre of experimental or fusion tracks? I also think giving certain judges more weight in the scoring because of their experience with certain genres is problematic, and would limit the diversity of opinion that has made the ADM's judging system work so well in the past imo. Overall, I think setting up the judging system based on genres would create more problems than it solves.


"Reflect on your evils, lest they reflect on you." ~A Magic card lol --- Formerly "TheDoor6"

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Response to NGADM - Announcement Thread 2018-06-04 21:56:29 Reply

@JordanKayser
Well, of course, not like the old times :DD

At 6/4/18 06:16 AM, JordanKyser wrote: I am so ready for this

Also, I will call @TheFantasticZ and @ELEPS44 for this... maybe, @ELEPS44 could collab with me if he wanted to! :D
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Response to NGADM - Announcement Thread 2018-06-04 22:52:39 Reply

At 6/4/18 06:50 PM, TaintedLogic wrote:
At 6/3/18 04:23 PM, MetalRenard wrote:
At 6/3/18 04:06 PM, Sequenced wrote: We should pick judges that have a fundamental knowledge of certain genres.
Anyone else have other ideas about this?
I don't think this is a very good idea. Music should be judged on its ability to appeal to a wide variety of audiences, not just people with niche tastes

no.

The point of having judges that are experienced in those fields means they are able to judge accordingly. Do you REALLY think having a EDM guy should judge a classical piece? That is kind of ridiculous.

We do not need to to have super specific genre judges, but at least have one for Metal/rock, EDM (with a good amount of knowledge to know the differences between DNB, House, Trance, Techno, and so on..), a classical/orch judge, etc... It's the most fair way for everybody to know that someone's submission isn't going to be reviewed by someone who has NO IDEA WHAT THEY'RE TALKING ABOUT.

And I am positive we have enough people on this forum to fit those roles.

For example, me as a techno/house guy can't really critique a metal/rock song because I lack the experience needed to know what IS a "quality" piece of music for metal. The most I can do is just critique the mix. I have no idea what the song structure/modern rules for it are.

Music does -not need- to be appealed by a large audience. That's just kind of ridiculous.
Country music is has a large audience, that doesn't mean that everyone likes it.

It's okay for music to be underground.


lel

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Response to NGADM - Announcement Thread 2018-06-04 23:04:41 Reply

i agree with sequenced


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Response to NGADM - Announcement Thread 2018-06-05 00:36:02 Reply

im in to be a judge of the Modern Day hip hop section

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Response to NGADM - Announcement Thread 2018-06-05 08:47:28 Reply

At 6/4/18 10:52 PM, Sequenced wrote:
At 6/4/18 06:50 PM, TaintedLogic wrote:
At 6/3/18 04:23 PM, MetalRenard wrote:
The point of having judges that are experienced in those fields means they are able to judge accordingly. Do you REALLY think having a EDM guy should judge a classical piece? That is kind of ridiculous.

We do not need to to have super specific genre judges, but at least have one for Metal/rock, EDM (with a good amount of knowledge to know the differences between DNB, House, Trance, Techno, and so on..), a classical/orch judge, etc... It's the most fair way for everybody to know that someone's submission isn't going to be reviewed by someone who has NO IDEA WHAT THEY'RE TALKING ABOUT.

And I am positive we have enough people on this forum to fit those roles.

For example, me as a techno/house guy can't really critique a metal/rock song because I lack the experience needed to know what IS a "quality" piece of music for metal. The most I can do is just critique the mix. I have no idea what the song structure/modern rules for it are.

Music does -not need- to be appealed by a large audience. That's just kind of ridiculous.
Country music is has a large audience, that doesn't mean that everyone likes it.

It's okay for music to be underground.

I think having different standards for different genres can be dangerous. Judges should be judging the musicality of the piece, not how well the piece fits a certain genre. Therefore, it shouldn’t matter whether a judge can distinguish between techno and DnB, etc.

I can’t speak for all judges, but I can say that the tracks I rate highly don’t necessarily reflect the genres I most like (or make myself). Perhaps my comment about large audiences was poorly worded. I meant to imply that having judges with a wide variety of musical backgrounds weigh in on a piece gives a much better indication of the track’s performance than when the judges have a monolithic experience of music.

I agree that we have plenty of people to cover all the genres. I’m just concerned that figuring out who covers tracks of ambiguous genres will be a bit of a mess.

Your method of judging also implies that some judges will judge some tracks and not others. Even if you have 2 generic judges and 1 genre-specific judge per track, those genre-specific judges could have very different scoring methods that give competitors making a certain genre an unfair advantage. Maybe the pop judge’s 9 is the classsical judge’s 7, for example. It’s hard to compare music across genres, but it’s even harder to compare scores across judges.

Overall, I see where you’re coming from, but I’m concerned about the fairness and comparability issues that would arise from a genre-based judging system.


"Reflect on your evils, lest they reflect on you." ~A Magic card lol --- Formerly "TheDoor6"

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Response to NGADM - Announcement Thread 2018-06-05 09:31:51 Reply

At 6/5/18 08:47 AM, TaintedLogic wrote:
At 6/4/18 10:52 PM, Sequenced wrote:
At 6/4/18 06:50 PM, TaintedLogic wrote:
At 6/3/18 04:23 PM, MetalRenard wrote:
Overall, I see where you’re coming from, but I’m concerned about the fairness and comparability issues that would arise from a genre-based judging system.

Why would it be dangerous? I see no problem what so ever. And different genres DO have different standards, thats why there are different genres.

Judges would not have any more weight than others. The point of this is to have votes as fair as possible, to eliminate any favoritism.

Why should an overall vote based off a judge who does not understand what drum n bass is? One low score by that guy (just because he doesnt understand it) just devalues the competition completely. Thats why we used to pair people with -similer- genres or similar skills, so that we could elimiate the possible chance of favoritism when it comes to judging.

Why would someone win a round with only FL basic presets without mixing at all and has a general lack of production skill, but have a more "appealing" melody to the judge? Ive seen that happen quite a few times last year. Thst use to never happen.

Production skill, should also be considered. Not just "appeal to wide audience."

@metalrenard @midimachine @Step thoughts?


lel

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Response to NGADM - Announcement Thread 2018-06-05 13:07:17 Reply

At 6/5/18 09:31 AM, Sequenced wrote: Why would it be dangerous? I see no problem what so ever. And different genres DO have different standards, thats why there are different genres.

Judges would not have any more weight than others. The point of this is to have votes as fair as possible, to eliminate any favoritism.

Why should an overall vote based off a judge who does not understand what drum n bass is? One low score by that guy (just because he doesnt understand it) just devalues the competition completely. Thats why we used to pair people with -similer- genres or similar skills, so that we could elimiate the possible chance of favoritism when it comes to judging.

Why would someone win a round with only FL basic presets without mixing at all and has a general lack of production skill, but have a more "appealing" melody to the judge? Ive seen that happen quite a few times last year. Thst use to never

Do you have any evidence of this favoritism being a problem in the past? Naturally, comparing songs across genres is messy, but it’s inevitably going to happen at some point in the competition. I think the system you’re proposing would create inconsistencies in the scoring system, not because of the different standards for different genres so much as the different judges judging different sets of tracks. I’m sure that industry standards differ by genre, but the goal of the NGADM is to celebrate the musicality and talents of our community members, not to sell records. Different genres prioritize musicality along different parameters, but as an individual judge I think that standardizing the parameters I look for in tracks I score actually eliminates bias.

I still don’t think that the familiarity judges have with any given sub genre is a good way of analyzing their qualifications. A talented musician who doesn’t know what techno is can still analyze the musical qualities (or lack thereof) of a techno track. I implore you to find me an example of a judge who gave someone a low score on a track just because they didn’t “understand it.”

I also don’t understand your emphasis on the production value of tracks. What does that have to do with the genre?


"Reflect on your evils, lest they reflect on you." ~A Magic card lol --- Formerly "TheDoor6"

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Response to NGADM - Announcement Thread 2018-06-05 13:14:41 Reply

Thank you all, for your suggestions and discussion so far, and also keeping it reasonable and respectful. That's very important to me. After having weighed both sides, I think there are some things we can do to find a middle ground.

It is true that some judges lack knowledge in certain areas but this is true of any judge. It is also true that one judge's lack of knowledge can devaluate the other's when it comes to voting. However, it is a fact that many songs don't fit a single genre and sometimes a genre label can damage a song and TaintedLogic makes a strong point about judges scoring tracks differently which makes giving them different weights problematic.

Having said all that, we have to recognise that a competition is never objective, especially one about something as subjective as art. Therefore, this system will never be perfect and we have to accept that from the start.

Here's what I propose: We choose judges who can represent a wide range of genres. Let's say we have 6 judges (for arguments' sake), we make sure they each have a different speciality or niche. Obviously this also has its limits and will not be perfect either, but it's the best we're going to get at this stage, I believe.


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