Presets are bad.. are they?

[FairSquare]

What i am about to write is based on a thought i have had a couple of times. But i have never expressed this thought to anyone, as no one in my direct environment makes music so they wouldn't know what i am talking about. And i didn't care enough to make a topic on here.
However, after having the thought again and expanding on it a bit i am finally curious enough to make a topic and see what other people think. The thought is about, as the title suggests, the use of presets.

So, in my use of these forums and having read a lot of reviews on audio on this very website, i have the idea that most of the users on here view presets as evil itself. Okay, maybe not that bad, but.. you get my point.
The use of presets in a song will probably make a lot of the people here (people who make music electronically) see the song more negatively than a song which only uses self made sounds.

But i wonder.. why?
I mean, sure, creating your own sounds is more complicated than using presets. More knowledge and perhaps creativity is required to do so. Does that make the use of presets bad though?

And here is where the thought i had comes in.
What if we compare presets to.. instruments?
An instrument is a physical object with which you make music. Just to be clear. I am telling users of an audio forum what an instrument is, what is wrong with me? But okay. Picture an instrument. Please.
So, someone (in most cases) tens of years ago designed that instrument. And now you are using it to play music.
The instrument.. is a preset?

When someone plays some nice piece of music on a trumpet, would you go ''Pffft, i heard that same sound in tons of other songs!'' ? Probably not.
But when you hear a preset.. the chance that you say that exact same thing are much greater.
Why is this?

Now please, don't tear me apart Lisa. This is just a thought. Maybe i don't get it. Maybe i'm dense. I'm just curious what you think of this thought of comparing presets to instruments.
Let the posts commence

[EagleGuard]

There's nothing wrong with using presets. I think people tend to bash presets because it suggests the producer is incapable of creating his / her own patches, or said producer lacks the creativity to do so. In the end, though, I believe it is the end result that matters. The harsh reality of it all is that most of the audience will not even notice any difference between a preset and a custom patch that took hours to make. And honestly, there's probably a preset out there somewhere that sounds just like your custom patch anyway.

What, you didn't build that violin by yourself? I build my own violins all the time!

I think the analogy with the instruments holds up to a certain degree. With synthesizers, it is at least a lot easier to shape your own sound, whereas with acoustic instruments, the sound is pretty much fixed. I think it is this additional level of control that has ultimately become a new skill category in itself among producers.

I personally create my own synth patches sometimes these days, because I think it's fun to do and I'd like to learn more about analog synthesis. If people would rather focus on the composing side of things and choose presets instead, however, that's perfectly fine!

[midimachine]

i think presets are ok

but lets not pretend that the old "wELL u DiDnT bUiLd ur gUitAR!!?" argument isn't a false equivalency

[5TanLey]

Does the sound need to fit the song? Yes
Do you need to spend 10 hours making it? No

99% of people don't care what you use as long as the tune works as a whole

1% is toxic as fok about it and probably spend way too much time on sound design and neglect everything else... the type of people with mindset - more effort/time spent on individual sounds = better music, which is not the case sooo often (exceptions exist, yes, plus there are definitely styles that rely on sound design more than others). Why toxic? Perhaps envying people that "made it" using just presets or something? But that's just stupid, idk.

I watched a lot interviews with electronic music producers and, concerning sound desing, a lot of them really have no idea what they are talking about aaand... they kinda don't need to, again, as long as the music makes sense and is overall catchy to them and other people.

[zybor]

ITT

[EctiBot]

It's nothing wrong with using presets in itself, but in electronic music, Sound Design is a huge part of the song's identity. The greatest strength of electronic music is that the producers can easily tweak and design the sound to fit their own narrative. Presets make producers lazy, which is why a lot of beginning producers on here are unable to design their own sounds and give their tracks some identity instead of just being one of many EDM tracks. Also, if I hear a sound I've heard in thousands of tracks, ofc I'm going to view that as negative when scoring and reviewing the track. There are certain Nexus presets I hear in 80% of the new tracks on here (I've been guilty of using them myself), and after a while you simply get sick of it. You can't really compare it to acoustic instruments, because the sound is different depending on who is playing it, what style it's played in, effects, acoustics, dynamics.

Long story short: There's nothing wrong with presets, but the way people use them has honestly more to do with laziness than anything else. Don't blame the presets, blame the producer.

[MetalRenard]

@Troisnyx or another mod, I feel like a certain someone is derailing the conversation and flaming.

At 4/29/18 08:01 AM, 5TanLey wrote: Good stuff

I absolutely agree with this sentiment. Music is an art and art is all about choice. If it sounds good and works, what's the problem?

[Troisnyx]

At 4/30/18 05:13 PM, MetalRenard wrote: @Troisnyx or another mod, I feel like a certain someone is derailing the conversation and flaming.

At 4/29/18 08:01 AM, 5TanLey wrote: Good stuff

I absolutely agree with this sentiment. Music is an art and art is all about choice. If it sounds good and works, what's the problem?

I really hate to do this because presets can be misused and abused, but used well and they become your signature sound in a way -- but that presupposes no one else just abuses them to the point that they're done to death.

I mean the same can be said about my use of SF2s and Sytrus. They're technically preset sounds. The physical instruments we use are preset sounds from... well, physical instruments that at the end of the day, can be played in a finite number of ways. I'm not an original sound creator as much as I wish I could be. It's how we combine them. And if we can combine them to the point that they don't sound cliché, that's a plus in my book. Best example right here: I'm a drummer for crying out loud. So is @FairSquare. We could do a variety of sounds with our instrument but it's technically still going to be preset in a way, because I'm not the best at chopping it up, changing its frequencies, or even turning tissue paper into actual music.

@I0TA, I understand your beef with Avicii and the need for music that really stands out, but please calm down. There's flogging a dead horse, and then there's really flogging a dead horse ;A;

[ADR3-N]

OP, comparing presets to instruments isn't exactly spot on, since instruments require actual talent to play (and make pretty noise, I mean). The implication people make when they hear an artist that only uses presets is that that artist has no talent, and the music would be better if he/she ventured outside of his comfort zone.

That said, I grudgingly rely on many presets, but not before seeing what the instrument can do, what makes each preset tick, etc. I think DeadMau5 touched on this general idea when he plonked down a random Massive preset, held down a key, and proclaimed, "DUR, am now trance DJ" or something, and was like, "Nah fam, that's not how it works."

Also, I get so bloody tired of hearing Nexus presets in Hip-Hop and Pop. Insert expletive here.

[midimachine]

also some of us actually get paid to do this, and sometimes production isn't fun or artful. sometimes you need to bang something out quickly, and clients generally prefer sounds they recognise anyway. sometimes efficiency is the true art in production.

it's not "dick-shaking" or whatever to purchase tools that make your work easier, it's an investment in your business

[Buoy]

I can think of two cases in which using presets could be considered "bad".

It would be bad if using presets reduced your own satisfaction with your work. In this sense, using presets can be "bad" if a main priority of a track is to express creativity through the sonic palette (this is often the case in electronic music). But in that case it's equally "bad" to use regular old instruments in a conventional way as focal elements of the track. For most genres of music, having unique sounds is not really a high priority, so it is usually fine to use both conventional instruments and presets.

It would also be bad if your listeners' appreciation of the music were reduced after "catching" your use of presets. The only presets I've recognized are a couple of very characteristic Omnisphere/Absynth sounds, and admittedly that did pull me out of the immersion. But most people do not browse through presets, and will have no idea if you're using them. The exception here is that if the same few presets come up a lot, tracks using those presets will sound generic. But the problem then is the use of a cliché, not the use of a preset in particular. One of the most famous examples is the cheesy rhodes-sounding factory patch in the Yamaha DX7 which makes so many 80's ballads sound dated today.

I don't think any other considerations are relevant. If you are comfortable using presets to get to your desired outcome more efficiently, and your listeners don't mind, then who cares. Certain self-important musicians on certain internet forums might care, but that should not concern you. And most importantly, the time you don't spend on sound design can be spent on other aspects of the track which might be more important to you, like melodies, harmony, groove, lyrics, structure and mixing.

[Belthagor]

unless you were to... make your own preset, and then don't share it? =)

[zybor]

https://mobile.twitter.com/deadmau5/status/367265601640603648

[zybor]

https://www.spin.com/2016/03/deadmau5-kanye-west-pirate-bay-torrent-sufjan-stevens-gotcha/

Ain't we all do it

[CrisTheGamer]

Here is my opinion:

I've used presetes before (if you see my profile, please, don't listen my 2015 submissions...) and I have to say it isn't that bad, but on 10 I used to use 10 presets, now I only use 1 or 2 and all the other sounds are made by myself, but often I look some blog posts or tutorials where I found how to make other sounds

[Daru925]

I feel you man! The other day, i used a compass to draw a perfect circle, couldn't sleep that night.

[DrunkGecko]

well, personally i think if presets are used to make a song, and their not edited in any way
its probably bad

[Troisnyx]

Oh by the way
https://twitter.com/mcclure111/status/994599380891193350

</thread>

[Nue22]

I have too short of an attention span but let me try to explain why presets are bad in very few words.

Have you checked the unscouted artists section? Half of the tracks are simply "stolen" music. Presets, in a way, are stolen ideas. Most people want to trust that an artists put a lot of effort and succeeded into something. Without trust, it could be a stolen track entirely, and the outcome will make someone like me feel hurt if I gave praise to someone I mistrusted.

Obviously context is everything, though...but seriously, most people will benefit from original ideas instead of recycled ones.

[Daru925]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oxVVm75k_8Q

[5Dollar]

I use presets all the time. Why make something new when I have the sound I already want? Never will I understand that one. I'm not say don't make new sounds but sometimes you don't have to.

Also it's like people saying using a computer to make music isn't real music. So what you want me to use a real drum? But I didn't make that drum so, let me go skin a goat to make new drum skins and saw a tree down to make the shell. By the time I'm done that I haven't had the time to make my art.

So yes presets are great.

Here's another example. Say your gardening and you have a shed full of tools. But, you can't use them. Why? Idk you like to make your life harder. Just saying tools are there to be used.

[Troisnyx]

At 5/20/18 10:38 AM, IoTheEternal wrote: According to the new rules written up by tom for the audio portal, you're not allowed to use presents anymore - personally presets are fine as long as you filter them to make them your own.

Uh...

I remember querying this last year, or the year before last, about Sytrus presets for instance, and they said it was fine. To be specific, I queried Mich and a few other regulars of the time, which was what led me to release Can You See the Clouds Divide, and other tests of the sort.

Otherwise woe betide me and every orchestral composer on Newgrounds if those rules against presets are actually a thing, as opposed to simply slapping a bunch of loops together.

[zybor]

At 5/8/18 11:16 AM, Daru925 wrote: I feel you man! The other day, i used a compass to draw a perfect circle, couldn't sleep that night.

The other day I drawn a perfect circle, with a charcoal tied to a rope that I made. I slept very well.

[TheVenturer]

Presets are ok, but I don't like using them unless I need to. As someone has said, if the producer uses them in a very unoriginal way, then it's their fault. Sound design plays a big role in how your track is going to turn out, and making your own sounds lets you control it.