So what is your opinion on this recent phenomenon? What will be the end result of it?
Basically what's happening is a bunch of people are coming out against powerful people in hollywood claiming they were molested, and everyone is believing them and running said people out of their positions.
Is this good or bad, is it sustainable, and how will we be looking at similar allegations a few years from now?
At 12/8/17 12:26 PM, SolidPantsSnake wrote: Yes it is good hollywood has gotten away with it for decades. This should have happened far sooner.
Is it really though? You don't see any issue with crushing people based on someone's word alone and without evidence?
Even if you don't care about innocent people caught in the crossfire, this is going to damage how seriously people take allegations in the long run. After seeing everyone under the sun be accused, and nothing legally happening to them, accusations will amount to nothing since there is no way of knowing what is true and what isn't.
At 12/8/17 01:50 PM, SolidPantsSnake wrote: It's called a trial no one is being denied a right to defend against these accusations.
That's one of the outcomes I do hope we get from this. Because actually right now a lot of these cases never will go to trial, similar to Cosby's accusers. Because the abuse occurs outside of the statute of limitations, so a case cannot be brought. I'm hoping this can be changed to reflect something more like murder, which carries no limitations.
I also disagree and am disheartened by the idea that this is "just someone's word alone, and no evidence". This ignores that there are MULTIPLE accusers that come forward almost each and every time someone's name is mentioned here, either a pol or a hollywood type. In cases like Harvey Weinstein this was an "open secret" that was joked about on late night shows even in coded language. What do you think the "casting couch" is?
This is a long overdue cultural reckoning where we are now seeing our society decide who we are and how we want to proceed.
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At 12/8/17 08:13 PM, JosephStarr wrote: When it comes to statute of limitations, I think that if the accused has done (or is believed to have done) the same type of crime recently meaning that they never stopped committing those types of crimes, then the old cases/accusations should be allowed to be reopened/pursued.
Well, we could do that if it was a situation where the crime didn't have a time limit. A good reason not to have that here is it is incredibly difficult to prove harrassment and the stigmas involved are huge. If you're the first one up on the parapet and somebody doesn't immediately stand up and back you, the rocks that will be hurled at you will be huge, merciless, and the bigger and more beloved the name you're accusing, the worse that is going to be. For far too many women for far too long they felt it was better to stay quiet.
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It's a good and interesting phenomenon in my book, but two corrections with how it's being presented and discussed in here:
1. It's not recent - it was started ten years ago, and it caught fire recently. Yes I'm being pedantic here, but I find it interesting how something started a decade ago could grow so fast now. It's a sign of an overarching shift in attitude toward these things that has happened very recently.
2. This movement is not directed "at Hollywood", and it's harmful and contrary to the movement to frame it that way. Most people participating in this are talking about their experiences with wherever they're from, so to claim that it's basically about the Hollywood people narrows the scope to the 0.1% (or less) of the people sharing the hashtag that actually WERE molested by powerful media figures (or are literally living in Hollywood). The point of the movement was to show that, yes, it's INCREDIBLY common everywhere in this country and crosses creeds & political beliefs. The allegations against the powerful in politics and the media is also a result of this shift in our culture, but other than both instances being about addressing sexual harassment and assault they're different, serving very different & complimentary goals.
One movement is to hold the powerful accountable for their actions, while the other is to show that this is in fact unbelievably common for those that doubt. Both are interesting in their own right and worth discussing, but conflating one with the other hurts the #Metoo mission.
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You know, I agree that women should speak up about sexual assault, but I also fear that this whole thing will get out of hand. Where some women might outright lie, or exaggerate certain events, or make their encounter more than it really was. It's like the whole thing with George H. Bush. I mean, the guy is in a wheelchair, he's in his 90's, and here we have several women decrying that he touched/groped their bottoms. There really is not a whole lot that a 90 year old, in a wheelchair, can really do to a women, other than have their hand around that area when posing for a picture. They certainly will have a had time putting their hand on their back, away from their toosh. So, I really think the media needs to reevaluate their rush to report groping, and sexual assault, other than just reporting on any claim, or incident, to grab attention for their headlines. I think there will be a backlash against all this, where people will stop believing in these claims.
At 12/8/17 09:48 PM, EdyKel wrote: There really is not a whole lot that a 90 year old, in a wheelchair, can really do to a women, other than have their hand around that area when posing for a picture.
Are you sure he was a 90 year old in a wheelchair at the time of the alleged gropings? I've not heard much about the allegations against GHW Bush, so I legit don't know the details about his case, but most of the accusations coming out are not referring to very recent events. Most of them are people who felt pressured, either directly or by the cultural stigma, to keep quiet at the time of the original assault, and I'd expect the ones against Bush to be along those same lines.
At 12/12/17 08:21 AM, Timsplosion wrote:At 12/8/17 09:48 PM, EdyKel wrote: There really is not a whole lot that a 90 year old, in a wheelchair, can really do to a women, other than have their hand around that area when posing for a picture.Are you sure he was a 90 year old in a wheelchair at the time of the alleged gropings? I've not heard much about the allegations against GHW Bush, so I legit don't know the details about his case, but most of the accusations coming out are not referring to very recent events. Most of them are people who felt pressured, either directly or by the cultural stigma, to keep quiet at the time of the original assault, and I'd expect the ones against Bush to be along those same lines.
He's 93 now, and several were alleged to have happened in the past couple of years when he was in a wheelchair. I think there might have been one incident 10 year back, or so.. But still, it just seems unlikely that he has such a rich past of sexual groping ladies like other well known people who hold office, or powerful positions.
# metoo actress Asia Argento has accused of sexual assault with a actor who was 17 and it looks like its true since there's also been a 380K payoff to him, there's also a picture of them together in bed with her topless, of course she denies it even though just like the people she's accused for the same thing, and its being actively investigated by law enforcement.
remember its a two way street and karma comes back in hilariously ironic ways! maybe this can put a kabash on this metoo crap.
At 9/23/18 11:32 AM, Sause wrote:
What I think is actually tragic about all of this is that now women will be seen as having less credence going forward with allegations and accusations.
Why would the have less credence? Pretty hard to have less credence than the zero they had prior to the movement (which was kinda the point of the movement).
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At 9/23/18 09:49 AM, Tony-DarkGrave wrote: metoo crap.
^^^ why the movement was needed in the first place.
Also, the whole shit show around Kavanaugh. The whole political angle aside, the fact that many men are saying that they have to be afraid forever is bullshit. I mean really, how hard is to not sexually assault women (or anyone for that matter)?
At 12/8/17 11:32 AM, Tybia99 wrote: So what is your opinion on this recent phenomenon? What will be the end result of it?
It’s a double-edged sword, but overall a positive step. While it certainly does expose a lot of cases of gaslighting and sexual harassment that has been swept under the rug for decades, and there has been justice in some cases, there has been a lot more misses (Zach Smith and Ohio State) than successes. (Harvey Weinstein)
Is this good or bad, is it sustainable, and how will we be looking at similar allegations a few years from now?
This is kind of a “yes but an if, no with a but” kind of question because a lot of this depends on future accusers being truthful and not just those seeking a money grab. Social justice movements tend to fall apart when the crazies start hijacking the message or turn it into a witch hunt, devaluing the cause into directionless rabble, which is a crutch that Republicans have used to great effect in recent years.
Just stop worrying, and love the bomb.
It just shows how much feminism is worth how long this was ignored for
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Speaking of Kavanaugh, some of of his female defenders are claiming that sexual assault is normal by saying "what boy hasn't done it?". Does this mean they enjoy unwanted sexual assault, or because they know that Kavanaugh did it but are defending him out of loyalty (party?).
I also get the impression that the #Metoo hate crowd are just as nutty, and nasty, as some of the #metoo feminists out there.
At 9/23/18 05:45 PM, Sause wrote:
Camarohusky raped me. Prove me wrong.
We'd need an investigation... Whoops, literally everyone with the power to investigate has refused to do so because you're a slut, obviously.
Also your law license is suspended until the CIA concludes their investigation.
Why bother at all when there will be no investigation anyway, you dumb lying whore?
Hey, if we keep roleplaying someone will leak your address, then half of NG will send specific, targetted death threats to you, since that's always the next step against who you're roleplaying as. Sounds like fun, eh? Totally worth fabricating lies against someone, right?
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At 9/23/18 06:56 PM, Gario wrote:At 9/23/18 05:45 PM, Sause wrote:We'd need an investigation... Whoops, literally everyone with the power to investigate has refused to do so because you're a slut, obviously.
Camarohusky raped me. Prove me wrong.
Why bother at all when there will be no investigation anyway, you dumb lying whore?
Also your law license is suspended until the CIA concludes their investigation.
Hey, if we keep roleplaying someone will leak your address, then half of NG will send specific, targetted death threats to you. Sounds like fun, eh?
Yeah, Republicans are rushing his confirmation, hoping to secure the Supreme court for a generation in their partisan favor, ignoring possible warning signs - like they did with most of Trump's nominations. But, if Democrats retake the House, which means control of the all important "House Oversight Committee" then we may get an investigation over Kavanaugh, among other White House officials... It's going to be a tortuous next two years for Trump... and his supporters.
At 9/23/18 06:37 PM, EdyKel wrote: Speaking of Kavanaugh, some of of his female defenders are claiming that sexual assault is normal by saying "what boy hasn't done it?".
I know this is anecdotal, but, like, I.
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At 9/23/18 03:32 PM, Camarohusky wrote:At 9/23/18 09:49 AM, Tony-DarkGrave wrote: metoo crap.^^^ why the movement was needed in the first place.
Also, the whole shit show around Kavanaugh. The whole political angle aside, the fact that many men are saying that they have to be afraid forever is bullshit. I mean really, how hard is to not sexually assault women (or anyone for that matter)?
You hook up with a girl, do it once or twice, but then you break up with her because you find out what she's really like. She get's pissed, and get's revenge by claiming you raped her. You can't prove you didn't, and the courts will believe her instead of you so you're fucked.
I think the movement is going to lead to a drop in marriage rates, and produce more MGTOWs.
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At 9/24/18 08:49 AM, wildfire4461 wrote: You hook up with a girl, do it once or twice, but then you break up with her because you find out what she's really like. She get's pissed, and get's revenge by claiming you raped her. You can't prove you didn't, and the courts will believe her instead of you so you're fucked.
I think the movement is going to lead to a drop in marriage rates, and produce more MGTOWs.
Or you slept around with for a while or simply hooked up for a time in the past years later and you get big and famous and they come out either looking for money by whoever's willing to pay it to bring you down or 15 minutes of fame at your career and reputation.
Because it's not like that hasn't happened before.
At 9/24/18 08:49 AM, wildfire4461 wrote: You hook up with a girl, do it once or twice, but then you break up with her because you find out what she's really like.
Ok.
She get's pissed, and get's revenge by claiming you raped her.
Ok.
You can't prove you didn't, and the courts will believe her instead of you -
Your hypothetical argument falls flat here because the reverse is more likely to be true, due to lack of evidence.
At 9/24/18 02:13 PM, JosephStarr wrote:At 9/24/18 12:10 PM, Sause wrote: What the hellOkay, they're reaching so damn far I'm surprised their arms haven't fallen off.
Is that even a real saying, or does the guy who wrote that post have a very active and pervy imagination?
He's an ambulance chasing lawyer, who is currently working for Stormy Daniels. That should tell you all you need to know about the guy.
At 9/24/18 12:10 PM, Sause wrote: What the hell
Holly shit. Wouldn't surprise me if he was slipped that definition by someone from /pol/.
Let's see here:
1982: Something happened.
1983-2002: She said nothing.
2003: Bush nominates Kavanaugh to Court of Appeals DC circuit: She said nothing.
2004-05: She said nothing.
2006: Senate recommends his confirmation and get's sworn in: She said nothing.
2007-2011: She said nothing.
2012: She remembered something happened in 1982, but didn't do anything.
2013-2015: She said nothing.
2016-2017: She becomes a liberal activist and anti Trump protester.
2018: She finally comes out about the incident when it's convenient for her side.
Yeah it's not hard to see the motivation for suddenly coming out about it.
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At 9/24/18 10:23 AM, Sause wrote:
Ok ok let’s not get crazy here, i was trying to illustrate a point.
As was I - that scenario is just how it will conclude almost every time a woman tries to do that to someone in power. It's unsettling, I agree, but we've watched this show play out again and again.
I don't want people to send death threats to you, though, I promise - no one deserves to be driven from their homes with junk like that.
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At 9/24/18 05:18 PM, wildfire4461 wrote:
2018: She finally comes out about the incident when it's convenient for her side.
Yeah it's not hard to see the motivation for suddenly coming out about it.
yep. I'm not believing shit until there is actual evidence.
this whole guilty by public accusation bullshit is getting on my nerves.
lel
At 9/25/18 12:30 AM, Sequenced wrote:
this whole guilty by public accusation bullshit is getting on my nerves.
Mine too, believe it or not - we should have an investigation and hold a fair trial in order to see if he's guilty (and yes, ideally while Kavanough could still get a vote after, if you don't want to play the stalling game). Sure is a shame that those in power are literally blocking such actions, so we're gonna get what we get, here.
You can't avoid "guilt by accusation" without giving a fair trial, so by all means we should expediate such processes for men and women so it'd impact the lives if the innocent as little as possible.
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I'm calling it now: Avenatti and Ford have killed the #MeToo movement.
We've gone from one potentially believable accusation (though the timing of the release is quite suspect) and it held up until it started to fall apart. Fair enough. But I agree that every accuser deserves to be heard, and Ford's behavior when given that opportunity has been less than believable. Why WOULDN'T she want to tell her story? And she doesn't remember details? I know someone who was sexually abused by an uncle when he was five. He remembers day, room, and the conversation that took place right before.
Second accuser? When even the New York Times and Washington Post don't print something because they can't find corroborating sources, that is saying something. Rowan Farrow is no longer believable after attaching his name to this tripe, which is tragic because he did important work exposing Harvey Weinstein. (Maybe he should ask why NBC put up with Matt Lauer all those years, while he's at it.)
Third one...Most media sources and mainstream Democrats (at least not the ones off in crazytown) won't touch them with a 500-foot pole. I think Avenatti may have watched one too many of his previous client's movies. I see we've gotten to left-wing Pizzagate here. They're seriously claiming all these massive gang rape parties occurred and not only did nobody say anything, they kept going back? Give me a fucking break.
Fourth and fifth...When even the Democrats are saying "stop it, we have too many accusations!" that...is saying a lot.
What's tragic about weaponizing #MeToo is it has set women back 50 years by portraying us as a bunch of hysterical harpies. Like the second accuser, who was supposedly scandalized at the sight of a penis (OMG!). Seriously, are we back in the Victorian era now? Do we need to put fainting couches everywhere? And if she didn't want to see naked men or be around drinking, WTF was she doing at a frat party?
The other thing is it now makes it harder for ACTUAL victims to get the courage to tell their stories, and to be believed when they do. There will be so much skepticism now.
I agree accusations should be taken seriously and investigated, but enough with this "guilty until proven innocent" bullshit. And don't think women aren't taking note. We have husbands, sons, brothers, relatives, and friends, and do not want to see them ruined by a malicious woman out for revenge.
Credibility comes from evidence, not from a vagina.
At 9/26/18 09:43 PM, Sause wrote: I made a topic on this article from a few months ago, https://www.huffingtonpost.ca/2018/08/02/metoo-backlash-corporate-canada_a_23494668/
What in the actual fuck is going on in Canada? Y'all have social justice/political correctness psychosis turned up to 11.
I agree with women being passed over for jobs.
At 9/26/18 09:29 PM, RydiaLockheart wrote:
I agree accusations should be taken seriously and investigated, but enough with this "guilty until proven innocent" bullshit.
Ford would agree. It's why she has been calling for an investigation rather than people just taking her at her word. This could have cleared Kavanaugh if he were innocent, but the GOP denied that for us, for her, and for the country.
Second accuser admits it's questionable, but was forced to come out when Democrats hunted for other victims - she's as much a victim of them as she was of Kavanaugh (allegedly). The third victim is willing to risk perjury charges for her claims, due to having signed an affidavit - that's more than "just words", as now it's moved past sexual assault (or abbetting assault, in that case) and now stacks perjury charges for either party, if they're lying. By doing that she risks prison time for a false affidavit - that needs to be investigated.
Which, again, the GOP have refused to do, because fuck you he must be the next SCOTUS, even if he's potentially a felon, I guess.
Are you at all following these stories, or are you just seeing "Woman accuses man" and skipping the rest because it hurts the GOP this time? Because you're skipping quite a few relevant details in order to paint it as another "he said, she said", here.
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At 9/26/18 09:29 PM, RydiaLockheart wrote: "guilty until proven innocent"
I think making rape victims liars until corroborated is the wrong place to go too, especially when most rapes don't have much corroboration and intentionally so.
I get your point about men should be worried, but dismiss it as intentionally ignorant hogwash. Sure there's a fear of false allegations. I get that. However, false allegations are so damn rare. We have a massive problem of rapes not being reported and a very small problem of rapes being fabricated. In addition to that, the harm caused by rape far outweighs the harm caused by a false allegation.
That whole claim, to me, just reeks of defending those who can defend themselves at the expense of those who cannot. As a man, with a dad, a brother, and two sons I have ZERO fear of false accusals. The best way to not be accused of assaulting a woman is to not assault a woman. It's astonishing how much that simple and very telling fact has been turned off just so a conservative can get on the bench (where coincidentally enough, he will be tasked with the question of whether the government should be able to force women to use their sexual organs in the way the government wants them to.)
