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Muslim kills at least 8 in New York

1,360 Views | 21 Replies

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2017/11/01/new-york-attack-eight-dead-truck-hits-cyclists/

That number might rise as the 12 injured in the attack get treated in the hospital in the upcoming hours. Believe this is the first attack in Manhattan since 9/11 back in 2001, no? Also, I've heard mixed reports about whether 11 or 12 people were injured. The attacker, Sayfullo Saipov, ran over several cyclists before hitting a school bus that injured several children as well as adults, then jumped out and ran down the street with a pellet gun before being shot and detained by the police, he is still alive as of this moment. Behind in the truck police found a note where he said he did this for the Islamic State

When will we start doing the sensible thing and BAN TERROR TRUCKS??


"Till one day, that lion gets up and tears the shit out of everybody."

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Response to Muslim kills at least 8 in New York 2017-11-01 11:16:26


I said it before and I'll say it again:

Bollards in busy pedestrian areas should be mandatory in civil design to prevent such terror from happening in the first place. You can't practically ban vehicles, but you can easily mitigate the damage it causes by preventing them from crashing into large crowds.

Asshole terrorist, I hope the injured get the support they need and he rots in jail for life.


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Response to Muslim kills at least 8 in New York 2017-11-01 11:50:06


The sad thing is Trump is probably happy over this, as it is a distraction, and we'll most likely see more action from him over this than the Los Vegas shootings.

Response to Muslim kills at least 8 in New York 2017-11-01 12:26:32


At 11/1/17 12:07 PM, Sause wrote:
At 11/1/17 11:50 AM, EdyKel wrote: The sad thing is Trump
Well that didn’t take long

No, no it didn't. And guess what? Edy's already right about Trump promising to do more about this than the Vegas shooting. Such a transparent, agenda-pushing shitbag.

Response to Muslim kills at least 8 in New York 2017-11-01 12:28:03


At 11/1/17 12:07 PM, Sause wrote:
At 11/1/17 11:50 AM, EdyKel wrote: The sad thing is Trump
Well that didn’t take long

I'm just not a reliable hypocrite. These things are already being used for political means, so why pretend otherwise, or play the accusation game of accusing the other side of not giving the bodies time enough to go cold before using them to back up your position. The sad fact is that Trump, and other conservatives, were decrying gun control talk as being too soon after the Los Vegas attacks, and now they are already dragging the corpses off the ground and lifting them up into the air for everyone to see while demanding action against Muslims.

Response to Muslim kills at least 8 in New York 2017-11-01 13:08:59


Here's a thought:

Maybe he came to the USA as a perfectly reasonable individual who got in legally due to having no prior record for any of this? Maybe he turned to IS after moving to the USA only to be treated like shit by everyone for no reason beyond "HNNNG MOOSELIMBS R TEH EVULIST SKUM!!1!1!!one!!" being hurled all around him, and directly at him, for the whole time he was there? Maybe he hadn't the money to leave due to being refused for jobs all the time (for having a foreign name, which definitely still happens even today) and, due to being a legal immigrant, not being able to use the deportation service of his own will?

I'll agree the chances of this being the case here are very small, but consider it as a hypothetical. What exactly does 'extreme vetting' do to stop people who pass every check imaginable coming to the USA (or being born and raised there to start with) and then turning bitter in the face of a seemingly never-ending tide of low-level abuse and bigotry? If you got into, say, a college / job you always dreamed of, only to find everyone there is openly prejudiced against people who have your hair colour, would you still think as highly of the place as you did initially? After being the recipient of years of derision, insults and thinly-veiled discrimination, would you want to play by its rules any more?

This doesn't excuse driving a van into a crowd of people. Nothing does. But when you rightly brand the man as an 'evil nutjob' for his actions, have a long, hard think about who and what ultimately turned him to that mindset in the first place. IS alone? Possibly, but to dismiss anything else as potential contributing factors is childish. Muslim or not, people are complex individuals, and it's rarely just one button pushed to turn a man into a monster; it's a whole cascade of events, thoughts and feelings which reach a point of mentally snowballing. Which no-one ever seems to realise because it's so much easier just to label it as another 'evil muslim' and continue banging the anti-immigration drum instead of taking a look at their own treatment of fellow human beings (something humanity has always been terrible at doing).

Response to Muslim kills at least 8 in New York 2017-11-02 13:18:56


At 11/1/17 08:02 AM, Radaketor wrote: When will we start doing the sensible thing and BAN TERROR TRUCKS??

How are we going to do this? How would one detect a "terror truck"?

This event is sad, appaling, and this guy will and should be prosecuted to the fullest extent of the law....but let's also remember that part of the price we pay for having our freedoms is that we don't live in a police state and that we have to remember this is a lone asshole who slipped through....he is the large MINORITY of monsterous cowards that want to harm others for crazy reasons.


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Response to Muslim kills at least 8 in New York 2017-11-02 14:06:29


At 11/2/17 01:45 PM, SolidPantsSnake wrote:
At 11/1/17 01:08 PM, Sheizenhammer wrote: Here's a thought:
Here's another though how about you stop victimizing murderers.

I could point you to a thread of yours where you do just that.

At 11/1/17 12:28 PM, EdyKel wrote: The sad fact is that Trump, and other conservatives, were decrying gun control talk as being too soon after the Los Vegas attacks, and now they are already dragging the corpses off the ground and lifting them up into the air for everyone to see while demanding action against Muslims.

It's even more ironic when you actually compare the body counts.


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Response to Muslim kills at least 8 in New York 2017-11-02 15:36:51


At 11/2/17 01:45 PM, SolidPantsSnake wrote:
At 11/1/17 01:08 PM, Sheizenhammer wrote: Here's a thought:
Here's another though how about you stop victimizing murderers.

In the same post that you’re abstracting, Sheizen writes:

At 11/1/17 01:08 PM, Sheizenhammer wrote: This doesn't excuse driving a van into a crowd of people. Nothing does.

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Response to Muslim kills at least 8 in New York 2017-11-02 16:30:29


At 11/2/17 03:46 PM, SolidPantsSnake wrote:
At 11/2/17 02:37 PM, Sause wrote:
Don't say you could when you can
He can't

reason #1 wasn't my thread

Reason #2 didn't actually happen

Technicality or not, you did the same thing with the guy who used his car to ran over protestors in Charlotsville.

Response to Muslim kills at least 8 in New York 2017-11-02 16:54:47


At 11/2/17 03:46 PM, SolidPantsSnake wrote:
At 11/2/17 03:36 PM, TurkeyOnAStick wrote: In the same post that you’re abstracting, Sheizen writes:
At 11/1/17 01:08 PM, Sheizenhammer wrote: This doesn't excuse driving a van into a crowd of people. Nothing does.
That doesn't excuse the other 99% of the post that you didn't quote.

I don’t think I’ve ever had anybody try to use the post-quote limit as an argument against me.


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Response to Muslim kills at least 8 in New York 2017-11-02 17:07:06


Regardless of the tragedy, it's an abhorrent shame that peoples lives are nothing more than chess pieces for politics, now more so than ever.

Response to Muslim kills at least 8 in New York 2017-11-03 06:34:49


At 11/2/17 01:18 PM, aviewaskewed wrote: How are we going to do this? How would one detect a "terror truck"?

Just ban 'em all, nobody needs trucks anyway, the founding fathers didn't have any idea trucks would be a thing dontchaknow?

lone asshole who slipped through....

Europe has had enough lone assholes in the past few years that perhaps it's time we start looking for a connection between all of them. Just like a lot of school shooters happen to be sexually frustrated young men who were either bullied or on psychotropic drugs.


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Response to Muslim kills at least 8 in New York 2017-11-03 13:12:54


Sadly, he's reportedly likely to come out of this event just fine, and questioning is bringing back little to no results on why or how the attack was pulled off. I'm not going as far as to wish death on this dude, I just hope that he serves his time in jail like everyone else. And my heart goes out to the mourning folks in Manhattan.
What bothers me is all these terror attacks are making people of muslim faith who are completely harmless get a lot of steely glares from radicals lately. Even if you're not religious sometimes your skintone can denote terrorism too.
I'm on nobody's side here, since there isn't a side at all to vouch for. This was a negative thing to negatively effect people.

Response to Muslim kills at least 8 in New York 2017-11-03 14:36:54


At 11/3/17 06:34 AM, Radaketor wrote: Europe has had enough lone assholes in the past few years that perhaps it's time we start looking for a connection between all of them.

We do that. Because you know, you want to make sure that more of these attacks aren't being planned. That's kind of one of the points of law enforcement so....don't know why you think we don't.

Just like a lot of school shooters happen to be sexually frustrated young men who were either bullied or on psychotropic drugs.

This does not compute, there's never been any connection I've ever heard of between school shooters. They may have similar motivations, but they're not part of some organized group, or claiming allegiance to one like this bastard did.


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Response to Muslim kills at least 8 in New York 2017-11-05 22:33:14


I don't give a shit if he was Muslim, Christian, Jew. Gay, straight, lesbian. Male, female, trans, gender fluid.. Black, white, asian....
What matters is that one person was enough of a selfish shithead cunt rot to take away the lives of 8 innocent people that were just going about their daily business.

Really their religious ideology had nothing to do with it at all. Other than maybe an indication that they are small-minded enough to believe everything they're told, or that they read in a book. Maybe he followed Sharia Law which sort of encourages you to kill and fiddle with kids or be polygamous. Even so, plenty of Sharia followers don't do that because they're just normal people who AREN'T FUCKED IN THE HEAD.

Lets face it. At this stage, Muslim is a colloquial slang for BROWN PERSON but we're all too bigoted to say it because that's racist or something? We can't be bigoted and racist at the same time because that's how you make yourself look stupid.

But then, what even is racism? Racism isn't inborn. It's something you're taught. My definition of racism and yours are probably entirely different. So... Is it racist? Derogatory by all means... But... Racist? What is racism again??


At 11/5/17 10:33 PM, AcidX wrote: I don't give a shit if he was Muslim...

You should. Have you ever read the Quran or Hadith, the authorities Islam is founded upon? They're the most flagrant hate literature on earth. If you're not a devout Arab Muslim male, you're on the list.

Black? Let's see. The word for black person is abeed, literally, slave. The hadith disparage 'raisin heads', Bukhari 1:11:664. Dreams of black women with nappy hair are an omen of plague, Bukhari 9:87:163. Not racist enough for you yet? You can find a sampling of even more racist hadiths here. My favorites include, Allah making black people to go to hell, Ibn Ishaq 374, and that anyone who says Muhammad was black should be killed, Mishkat vol 3, p. 117. The hadith read like neo-Nazi literature for Arabs.

Jew? The Quran has more antisemitic sentiment statistically than Mein Kampf. Actually, Mein Kampf is a top seller among Muslims. There just seems to be something about Islam that ingrains people with the idea Jews are Shaytan. I wonder... Could it be the scriptures themselves? But of course I'm being cheeky. See Bukhari 9:84:58.

Christian? Apparently Jesus was replaced on the cross, and you're a polytheist. At first, the Quran likes you, because you're not as proud as the Jews, but later, you're both supposed to convert, pay the Jizyah, or get the sword. There's lots of verses in the Quran about Jews and Christians, but Sura 98:6 says Lo! those who disbelieve, among the People of the Scripture [Jews and Christians] and the idolaters, will stay in fire of hell. They are the worst of created beings.

Non-Abrahamic faith, atheist, agnostic, or ask too many questions? Become a Muslim right this instant or die. See Bukhari 9:84:57 for the preferred method for offing atheists specifically.

Not the same denomination of Muslim? Bukhari 9:84:59. Abu Bakr said, "By Allah! I will fight whoever differentiates between prayers and Zakat as Zakat is the right to be taken from property (according to Allah's Orders). By Allah! If they refused to pay me even a kid they used to pay to Allah's Apostle, I would fight with them for withholding it." 'Umar said, "By Allah: It was nothing, but I noticed that Allah opened Abu Bakr's chest towards the decision to fight, therefore I realized that his decision was right."

And when the sacred months have passed (the treaty the Muslims had with the non-believers), then kill the polytheists wherever you find them and capture them and besiege them and sit in wait for them at every place of ambush. But if they should repent, establish prayer, and give zakah (almost like a tax), let them [go] on their way. Indeed, Allah is Forgiving and Merciful. Sura 9:5.

Fight those who do not believe in Allah or in the Last Day and who do not consider unlawful what Allah and His Messenger have made unlawful and who do not adopt the religion of truth from those who were given the Scripture - [fight] until they give the jizyah willingly while they are humbled. Sura 9:29. So if you don't adopt Sharia law, you get terror attacks? Hmm...

A recurring theme is the convert or die schtick. If interested, start researching the sword verses, of which there are over 100. They'll blow the doors off the idea Islam was ever a religion of peace.

And before anyone starts screaming IS isn't really Islamic (irony much?), or immigrants are turning to them because they're mistreated by the countries they immigrate to, um, no. You don't become a terrorist for a devout Islamic organization without being a devout Muslim. The entire premise of these organizations is to train up impressionable young men and women for jihad, to kill anyone who isn't a devout Muslim, and establish a Muslim theocracy, not to harbor pansies who are afraid to be Muslim, kind of like the premise of Islam in the first place.

O Prophet! strive hard against the unbelievers and the hypocrites and be unyielding to them; and their abode is hell, and evil is the destination. Sura 9:73

Surely Allah has bought of the believers their persons, and their property for this, that they shall have the garden (go to heaven); they fight in Allah's way, so they slay and are slain. Sura 9:111.

Be ye not weary and fainthearted, crying for peace, when ye should be uppermost! Sura 47:35

These groups quote the Quran in context to support their atrocities as a sign to Muslims that they're the next Muhammad, ushering in a new era of Islamic purity. These terrorist groups are not just killing people for fun; it's Mohammedanism. It's really quite transparent.

Why do they do this, you might still ask? The book says so, and Muhammad says so, and they believe in them.

I won't get into specifics on how historical, redactive, and textual criticism by a wide range of scholars has completely refuted the classical narrative of the origins of Islam, but if interested, see this lecture for a summary of current research. In short, it's not looking very good for Muhammad, or even his alleged city, Mecca, which doesn't even appear on a map until centuries after his death, nor has ever been a hub of trade.

Scholars now know 70% of the Quran is borrowed from Syriac Christian sectarian and Jewish Apocryphal writings, and the rest has been written, rewritten, and redacted by the subsequent Caliphs, before finally being canonized in 1924. So, what we have is a highly corrupted text filled with unreliable history, calls to violence, built on colorism, and founded by the many times redacted political and theological attacks on the groups Arabs sought to subjugate. I really recommend that lecture. The manuscript evidence that has come out in the past couple years is damning.

What is the primary purpose of the Quran? To force people into submission. What's the easiest way to get an infinite supply of soldiers, sex slaves, and subordinates to submit to you? Convince them of a reward in heaven for their complete submission; make god in your image. This is exactly what we see in the Quran, with disastrous results.

What effect has Islam had on the world? Not very good.

19 million Africans were enslaved by Muslims. 90% died in transit, the males castrated, 15% survived castration, virtually no progeny surviving today. Islam has never dealt with its slavery. In fact, it's still alive and well today. Yazidis, anyone? Sura 4:24 condones sex slavery. 2 out of every three African slaves were female sex slaves.

90% of women in modern day Muslim countries suffer from domestic violence because of Sura 4:34, But those [wives] from whom you fear disobedience - advise them, forsake them in bed; and [finally], beat them. The word beat here is idribohunna, literally, scourge her. If this pisses you off, or you're a woman, don't worry, it gets much worse. You might find this interesting.

Millions of hindus, Christians, and Jews have been massacred in the name of Allah and still are today, as we see with this attack in New York, emulating the earlier Paris attack. They will continue.

Yet our government is somehow clueless to the motivations of extremists. The media thinks they can parrot "Islam is a religion of peace," and it will go away. Not so. The way you stop Islamic terrorism is not with bullets, bombs, and cruise missiles. Break their theology instead.

Subject the Quran to the same historical, textual, source, and redactive criticism the Bible has withstood. The Quran will fall apart, and the radicals will move on, probably to hinduism, with its equally classist, sexist, strange theology.

Also, please actually do your research. Under Sharia, apostasy = death.


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Response to Muslim kills at least 8 in New York 2017-11-06 22:15:12


At 11/6/17 05:28 PM, MithyxSounds wrote:
At 11/6/17 11:21 AM, ADR3-N wrote: Our government is somehow clueless to the motivations of extremists. The media thinks they can parrot "Islam is a religion of peace," and it will go away. Not so. The way you stop Islamic terrorism is not with bullets, bombs, and cruise missiles. Break their theology instead.
Here it is! Right here, summarized better than I could dream of doing myself. Well done, good job.

qft

Thank you ADR3-N. this was gloriously beautiful.
You are doing the lords work.

Although I'm still not that fussed he was Muslim. As in, it doesn't need to be the very first word of the headline. I'd rather know what particular sect of Muslim he was, if it's to be the first piece of information I'm told. Or even if they just outright said brown person, as that's essentially what you're doing by pinning it on the entire Muslim label.

For real. Mudslimes are downright medieval. Especially these ISIS and Boko Harambe lot. Like...if you're trying to invent a time machine, so that you can go back to medieval times with modern technology ... don't bother. Just book yourself a holiday to the Middle East.


At 11/6/17 10:15 PM, AcidX wrote:
At 11/6/17 05:28 PM, MithyxSounds wrote: Here it is! Right here, summarized better than I could dream of doing myself. Well done, good job.
qft

Thanks guys. Though, what I presented here is the tip of the iceberg. I wouldn't know a lot of what I know if not for the Hadith and Quran materials already online, and I'm deeply indebted to the lectures of people like Jay Smith, Sarah Foster, Hatun Tash, and David Wood. Jay actually had his doctorate in Islamic studies before I was born and was already in Britain at Speaker's Corner, engaging with radical Islam before the western world ever really caught on that it was the religion that was the problem, not the dictatorships. That was 6-7 years prior to 911, and 11 or so before the 7/7 attacks in Britain.

I also discovered Pfander Center for Apologetics. It's a Christian institute, and I think still the only place in the world you'll find classes on Islamic history and critique. If schools dared expose the truth like this, they'd all be bombed, so Pfander comes to you online. You can sign up for courses here. Registration is closed for this year, but the lectures should all be available around the web somewhere. The PfanderFilms lectures and debates on YT really caught my eye. There's a lot of good information, and a lot of awesome book recommendations. @Jackho, lemme know if you'd dig a reading list on the subject. :)

Thank you ADR3-N. this was gloriously beautiful.
You are doing the lords work.

Glad you enjoyed. Don't give me too much credit though. I'm just passing on what I know personally. I may know more soon.

Although I'm still not that fussed he was Muslim. As in, it doesn't need to be the very first word of the headline. I'd rather know what particular sect of Muslim he was, if it's to be the first piece of information I'm told.

I would say, if he's working for IS as the note claims, he's probably into Wahhabism, whether in name or ideology. Wahhabism or Salafi Islam began with Muhammad ibn Ab-al Wahhab and is what you and I would immediately recognize as radical, Sharia enforcing, woman-beating, kafir-beheading Islam. It is an attempt to get back to the root of Islam. Note, radical = root.

Interestingly, you might also like to know that Al Qaeda also means "the root".

Al Qaeda, and I would argue virtually all Islamic terror organizations today, stem from a mix of Wahhabism and the literature of Syed Qutb, but all Wahhab and Qutb have done is just point out what Islam has always been about.

Syed Qutb had the entire Quran (or rather, 1 of the 26+ Arabic Qurans we have today) memorized by the time he was 10 years old. "In the Shade of the Quran" is probably one of the best commentaries there is today on the text. The succinct summary would probably go like this: "Western society, bad. Jews and blacks, worse. Arab Islamic barbarism, good. Institute Sharia. Make all women 2nd class citizens, destroy all world governments, and kill or forcibly convert all the non-Muslims with offensive, not defensive, Jihad. Be poor, miserable slaves to Allah forever."

Radical muslims agree with Qutb for the most part except for one point. Qutb believed slavery was wrong. His critics, the scholars, believe according to Allah, it's lawful, and Allah is more of an authority than Qutb. The rest of his theology was on point though. Bin Laden was heavily influenced by one of Qutb's star students and Qutb's brother, who published his work after he was executed for plotting the assassination of Gamal Abdel Nasser. Why? Nasser opposed the Muslim Brotherhood, who wanted Egypt to adopt Sharia, force women to wear hijab, etc.

For real. Mudslimes are downright medieval.

Not necessarily. I love Muslims. They have a passion you rarely see today. There's this determination to see things through, not to give up, and an energy that's very contagious. They might try to piss you off or spit at you, but I have never seen a people in my face, more hungry for the truth as a whole, or willing to live and die by it. If they're medieval, it isn't because they're bad people. It's because of the theology.

Reminds me of a Christian missionary my dad told me about, who lived downstairs from him. She was so old, she'd gone blind, but she told my dad the story of how an entire African tribe had eaten her husband and best friend right in front of her very eyes. But what did she do? She didn't hate them. She evangelized them. They were so moved by her compassion, they dropped what they were doing and preached the Gospel everywhere they went -- to shamanistic cannibals. Those people weren't evil. The theology was the problem!

Show Muslims the truth, leave your prejudices at the door, and they'll come around. It's the religion that's backward, not the people manipulated into following it. :)


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At 11/6/17 11:21 AM, ADR3-N wrote: if interested, see this lecture for a summary of current research. In short, it's not looking very good for Muhammad, or even his alleged city, Mecca, which doesn't even appear on a map until centuries after his death, nor has ever been a hub of trade.

Dayum. I watched this lecture the other day and it completely blew me away haha.
I will be certain to share this with anyone trying to defend Islam as a religion of peace and such nonsense.

Also, that Quran on women video... Very useful. I had an old colleague who used to defend her little sharia community because she used their shop.. Ah.. Wish I could've shown her this.
I found this top comment on the video to be very true as well:
"Ironically enough, Third wave Feminists, Social Justice Warriors, and Progressive Democrats are usually the first ones to defend Islam and Muhammad from criticism."

People just don't want to think. They want to be told what to think so they don't have to form their own opinion and that worries me. It's the only thing really preventing any kind of revolution in our western societies.

At 11/7/17 03:14 AM, ADR3-N wrote:
At 11/6/17 10:15 PM, AcidX wrote: For real. Mudslimes are downright medieval.
Not necessarily. I love Muslims. They have a passion you rarely see today.

Also yes, that closing paragraph was more of a satirical bit of sarcasm. It's true. They have a unique tenacity which is completely lacking in our own cultures. For want of better expression, a lot of our cultures would rather be bent over and shafted up the arse by banks or whatever other vices they are slaves to.

Anyway, great links. Thanks! I will be sure to watch any videos you share on the subject in future :D

Response to Muslim kills at least 8 in New York 2017-11-13 16:33:32


lol title says Muslim...

It should say “asshole kills at least 8”

The fact that he’s Muslim only matters to people who think a travel ban will keep them safe.

But of course... it won’t... something something church shooting something..


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At 11/13/17 04:33 PM, Neu-Travis wrote: lol title says Muslim...

It should say “asshole kills at least 8”

The fact that he’s Muslim only matters to people who think a travel ban will keep them safe.

But of course... it won’t... something something church shooting something..

So your logic is that for every American that isn't killed by a Muslim, they are instead shot by another extremist instead since they weren't shot/blown up/ran over by a Muslim? Makes no sense.

Let them stay in their Muslim shithole countries that they have created. We don't need to let them run over here and create more problems for the US because many of them want it to be like their true home, or because they feel the calling to kill infidels.

I'm tired of their toxic culture infecting other cultures around the globe, it's a disease.

Also, seeing the conflation pop up yet again; Muslim is not a race; it's a toxic, creepy, and stupid religion.