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The USA's a three party system

590 Views | 8 Replies

The USA's a three party system 2017-10-07 02:22:05


If you're living in America, you live with three major political parties you can pick, of which Republicans and Democrats are the second and third largest among the three. You'd think that you'd have heard of this overwhelmingly large political force, and you'd be right; it's simply not called a political party normally. The only reason this party doesn't officially win elections is because by definition no one represents them.

This is the "Not Voting" party.

Yeah, pulled a fast one on y'all - I'm talking about the choice not to vote. We could bitch about how people don't care, if they voted we could've had X,Y or Z for whatever office, but I'm not going that route here. Just wanted to toss a little political theory over here and see if it makes sense to y'all. If I'm thinking/talking out of my ass I'd rather be corrected, too, so better to our it all out in the open.

See, I understand why Democrats insist on being as centrist as possible. In a two party system, being right in the middle will guarantee the most possible votes, since in the middle you grab everyone to the left (or right), and you can theoretically maximize your votes close to the center of the other political side. If a system is truly two parties this is the optimal political strategy - literally unbeatable unless your opponent does the same.

A funny thing happens when you include people who don't vote into the equation: the entire voting game changes. Another strategy becomes not only viable, it becomes dominant; if your opponent loses their support to non-voters, you can win without moving to the center. Suddenly, the best strategy becomes galvanization and apathy against your opponent: you create dissent among the opposition and generate apathy (or let them do it themselves), and galvanize your base to protect yourself from such a thing happening to you.

The center doesn't matter when there's a third party splitting your vote, and it's not advantageous when the opposition galvanizes their side as much as possible. Going to the center is thus a bad strategy in this context. If you hope to succeed in this environment you must make sure your party votes for you rather that letting them fall away in this third party.

For as much as anyone may dislike the right-wing, they are FAR more effective politically than the left-wing, since they recognize (either purposely or accidentally) that this is the game they're playing. They galvanize the right against the left, and by sticking to hard right politics rather than running to the center they change the frame of what center means for the left. This effectively means that Democrats, if they take the centrist bait, WILL lose their base chasing a moving centeist goal post, leading to indefinite Republican victories.

Getting slightly more political for a second, if anyone wonders why the Progressive left tells Democrats to move left in their policies rather than punching left, this is a biiiiig part of it. Many (like myself) will vote for the weaker centrist candidates regardless, but we recognize that they're not going to win; if you suffer too much loss to the third party called non-voters, you can't win against a party that's spent decades solidifying what supporters they have.

Y'all want to know why candidates like Hillary liss me right the fuck off? Because candidates like her are adhering to a weak, pathetic strategy that assumes the wrong thing, and they get upset when that strategy doesn't hold. They attack progressives that didn't vote, or people that vote third party because they don't at all cater to their base, which is self destructive as all hell.

Enough of that, though. Anyone who's more politically savvy than I willing to correct, confirm or completely reject this thought? Just thought I'd share it with y'all.


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Response to The USA's a three party system 2017-10-07 13:38:09


At least the liberals and the progressives are a minority so we shouldn't have to worry.

Response to The USA's a three party system 2017-10-08 06:56:17


At 10/7/17 01:38 PM, Tony-DarkGrave wrote: At least the liberals and the progressives are a minority so we shouldn't have to worry.

I'm not convinced that's true - Trump lost the popular vote after all.


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Response to The USA's a three party system 2017-10-08 07:05:15


Sounds about right @Gario. It's definitely one of the top ten reasons the 2 party system is just not conducive to productivity. It's not even about the policies anymore.


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Response to The USA's a three party system 2017-10-08 12:26:29


At 10/8/17 06:56 AM, DamnedByFate wrote: I'm not convinced that's true - Trump lost the popular vote after all.

in the bigger populated blue states maybe but not spread out enough to effect the vote electorally which actually matters. they only had the heaviest population to voting districts which swinged a few states.

The USA's a three party system

Response to The USA's a three party system 2017-10-08 12:46:21


At 10/8/17 12:26 PM, Tony-DarkGrave wrote: in the bigger populated blue states maybe but not spread out enough to effect the vote electorally which actually matters. they only had the heaviest population to voting districts which swinged a few states.

Ah, nice, a map with both voting results and population density, perfectly illustrating just why the whole Electoral College system is flawed. Which, by the way, just helps my original point: Liberals and progressives might have less political power due to the EC, but it would be erroneous to conclude that they are therefore the minority.


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Response to The USA's a three party system 2017-10-08 14:46:40


At 10/8/17 12:46 PM, DamnedByFate wrote: Ah, nice, a map with both voting results and population density, perfectly illustrating just why the whole Electoral College system is flawed. Which, by the way, just helps my original point: Liberals and progressives might have less political power due to the EC, but it would be erroneous to conclude that they are therefore the minority.

Progressives also have very little representation for their policies just like their Libertarian counterparts on the Congressional Progressive Caucus, and the Center for American Progress and grassroots for "Real Progressives" like Justice Democrats ran by those idiots in the Young Turks, and overall have very little representation. the Liberals also pretty much pander to the DNC and play Center-Left, with the donor game. Add physical location and it overwhelms their insignificance the only reason why it was with 2016 is is a good old game of Giant Douche vs Turd Sandwich.

Response to The USA's a three party system 2017-10-08 16:04:18


I disagree with your diagnosis that the Republicans sticking to the hard right will give them victories. The Republicans won in spite of them pandering to their hard right.

If you see the recent political trends as right versus left, you're way off. The past several elections have not been won by right or left. They have been won by the non-establishment versus the establishment. (irony, as the non-establishment side was in fact more establishment than the establishment).

Politics have been leaning left heavily. The Trump/GOP platform moves in the Trump Presidency have been MASSIVELY unpopular. Repeal and replace is unpopular. GOP tax plans are unpopular. Religiious "freedom" moves are unpopular. Trump won because he energized those who felt disenfranchised, not because his Republican politics were popular.

Now that the GOP is the establishment, and they have utterly failed on their economic promises, the left should begin to see returns in both local and federal races as they are forced to be the outsiders.

Response to The USA's a three party system 2017-10-08 16:53:02


At 10/8/17 04:04 PM, Camarohusky wrote: I disagree with your diagnosis that the Republicans sticking to the hard right will give them victories. The Republicans won in spite of them pandering to their hard right.

It's not sticking as far right as possible that I saw giving them victories. It's that they're more effective at dissuading party liners from changing sides, and they're more effective at getting their base to vote. Them sticking hard right helps that second point, but it isn't necessary.

The thing is, I know the USA leans left politically quite a bit, as you said; Republicans and their plans are massively unpopular, and a lot of the current trends are to break the establishment. None of these points can win an election, though, if the voters don't vote.

Republicans ARE objectively better at getting people out to vote on their side, though, while suppressing and discouraging the left from acting in kind. I don't think Democrats have learned how to counter this, based on how they've behaved at the recent local/special elections. Shit, Democrats are again running a blue dog in Alabama, which if what I said is at all correct is literally the worst thing you can do: they're chasing voters that have been trained to vote party line rather than increasing votes from the left.


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