Advise on Choir Sample Libraries.

[DwightFalcon]

Hi all,

I am planning to buy a Choir sample libraries and have managed to shorten down my list to the below 2.
1. 8dio Lacrimosa
2. EW Symphonic Choir.

Can anyone share their experience in using these or similar related choir sample?
Also is it safer to buy boxed copy if my internet is unstable and (given if I bought EW SC) will the download be limited to a certain days?
Last but not least, just to be safe. Is there any other better vocal libraries out there? (I heard of Strezov and Eduardo Tarilonte's product, unfortunately they have quite limited use in genre)
Thanks in advance.

Regards,
DwightFalcon

[SoundChris]

At 3/11/17 01:27 PM, DwightFalcon wrote: Hi all,

I am planning to buy a Choir sample libraries and have managed to shorten down my list to the below 2.
1. 8dio Lacrimosa
2. EW Symphonic Choir.

Not the best choice to be honest.

I own
8Dio: Liberis, Requiem Pro, Lacrimosa
EWQL: Symphonic Choirs + Voices of the Apocalypse
Bestservice: Mystica, Cantus
Soundiron: Mercury
Strezov Sampling: Storm Choir I, Storm Choir II, Wotan, Tropar

Means - i really know them all. And the best stuff right now are these by strezov and mystica by tarilonte. Forget the rest. Here are some Demos:
Strezov:
Storm Choir I
Storm Choir II
Wotan (one of my personal demos)
Freyja
Arva Danny Elfman Style Demo / James Horner Style Demo

Tarilonte / Bestservice:
Mystica (also one of my personal demos - but this was an official one)

These are the best choirs out there these days. If your budget isnt big and you just need something that sounds really epic go for Storm Choir I (stil very nice)

If you want the maximum take Arva (Children) + Freyja (Woman) + Wotan (Men)

Mystica also is very nice, but it is best for medieval music because it is (as far as i know) the only choir library where you can have them sing without vibrato which was common in that era. There also is a male counterpart to mystica, called Cantus which is a gregorian chant choir. Great sound, but the transitions are not that cool out of the box.

Maybe that helped a little bit.

Peace!

Also is it safer to buy boxed copy if my internet is unstable and (given if I bought EW SC) will the download be limited to a certain days?
Last but not least, just to be safe. Is there any other better vocal libraries out there? (I heard of Strezov and Eduardo Tarilonte's product, unfortunately they have quite limited use in genre)
Thanks in advance.

Regards,
DwightFalcon

[SoundChris]

At 3/11/17 01:27 PM, DwightFalcon wrote: Last but not least, just to be safe. Is there any other better vocal libraries out there? (I heard of Strezov and Eduardo Tarilonte's product, unfortunately they have quite limited use in genre)

Strezovs Choirs are not limited in genre at all. They work well in orchestral context, in epic productions and also for intimate stuff. I am stil saving for Freyja and Arva. Another 700 bucks ... but i really need them. Believe me: These are THE best choir libraries out there these days. Some years ago it was Requiem Pro. But that has been years ago ...

Go for the Strezovs. You cant go wrong with them. Also consider: Symphonic Choirs is a library that is ultra old - almopst a decade. This is not state of the art anymore. Its stil an interesting instrument, but using it will force you to dig into the program a lot and in the end it just wont sound really good. This library is cool if you want something that performs behind an orchestra. For that stuff its cool. But if you think about it: THIS ! is a limited way to use it. Strezovs Choirs sould ultra awesome out of the box, the needed editing and tweaking is at minimum. The legato is the best on the market while the one in Symphonic Choirs is quite low to be honest. Again: This library is THE GRANDPA of Choral libraries :D It is a great piece of history but not up to date. Also it needs that incredible much resources (CPU / RAM) that its just hillarious.

And to talk about Lacrimosa: The only feature in this library that can be useful is the multivowel patch. The legato didnt convince me, recording 200 people is nonsense already from scratch. Everyone performs in a similar frequency range which means that it just sounds more undefined and muddy if you ask me. Also they have overprocessed it IMO.

[zybor]

don't listen to the 8Dio hype about Lacrimosa. it ain't as useful as it was advertised. the multivowel thing is fun to play with but, not much use for other features. you can do the same job with Storm Choir 1 or 2. If you absolutely need a library that could do everything and still handy, Requiem Pro or Voxos 2 is good. I would recommend Requiem Pro as your go-to library. In term of children choir lib, now that you have Arva, the other Liberis or Mecury is quite useless. I find Strezov stuff are the most flexible and useful here.

Like I said, if you need massive choir sound, Storm Choir 1 or 2 will do fine. On-the-go library would be Requiem Pro or Voxos 2. Individual section would be Wotan/Cantus (male), Freyja/Mystica (female) and Arva for children. Then there are vocal libraries: Shevannai, Altus, Studio Sopranos, Jennifer, Vocalisa, Rhodope... or word building vocal like Realivox Blue (Jesper Kyd used it in Assassin Creed 2), Realivox Ladies and some lesser known libraries like Clara, Vocalise, Forgotten Voices series, Kwaya, and Sonokinetic vocal libraries.

hope these help.

[Grandvision]

I have no experience with any of the latest choir libraries as I only use either very low usage ones or old ones as that's the only thing that my PC can handle.

I have used East West Symphonic Choirs all my life and it is nice as an out of the box choir for very basic melodies, mostly caters to mellow or melodramatic parts. It doesn't have any staccato patches. It sounds very mid-quality nowadays compared to the big boys that come out today. The Word Builder that comes with it is nice but I never managed to make it work myself, haha.

I've used Requiem Light myself a bit, more recently now. It is a very nice library if you want something epic, evil or dramatic. Has vowel builder, and different play styles, legato, staccato, marcatto, chants, sweeps, etc. It requires some tweaking to get to work realy, especially their vowel builder. Their marcatto plays a certain time so it has limited usage in that regard. Although I am using the Light verison so I am not sure if Pro has longer play on Marcattos. It sounds a bit muddy if you include too many vowels on a chord range, so EQ is required to get a crisper sound.

I haven't tried any of the other ones. I did have a look at Lacrimosa and it sounds lovely and look like you would be able to create some nice vowel runs with it, and have the choir sing something coherent, but it does sound very "full" for me, like it would overwhelm the rest of the orchestra and would require some EQ tweaking.

[SoundChris]

That was the best i could do with the EWQL Symphonic Choirs - Vota. I am a nerd when it comes to choir. You wont be able to get a better result with this product. The only thing that isnt really maxed out here was the release samples which i had to deactivate because of the CPU (ridiculous ...). Besides that you could polish it a little bit with a good reverb. But you can hear it clearly: Its limited and NOT state of the art today.

https://soundcloud.com/soundchris-1/kyrie-eleison

For background stuff like this it stil works:
https://soundcloud.com/soundchris-1/sons-of-valhall

The reason is that the choir sits in the back of the orchestra and just has some AHs etc and shouts. But really: Go for a better library. It is not worth the price. Its no match compared to the Strezovs, 8Dio Requiem (where you have to know that the "Phrasebuilder" is quite static. Just 16 Word parts in latin. The combinations are quite strange. If you wanna hear that check out the midpart of the trailer that i have written for an Elder Scrolls IV Oblivion Mod called Rathunas:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4tj52qR-rcM

The Requiem Pro part starts at about min 1:00

[DwightFalcon]

Hi All,
Thank you very much for the detailed response and apology for my late response.

Hi @Soundchris,
The main reason I shortlisted my list to Lacrimosa and EW Symphonic Choir is mainly as follow :

1. Recently most of my (hobby) works involve short mellow and expressive vowel (for example, from 0.18 to 0.30 https://goo.gl/XLSxcT, https://goo.gl/MWfHu3 and also https://goo.gl/rlE4fo ), mainly because for listening too much japanese orchestration and trying my best to recreate them.
- Usually I try to opt for free solo sample such as plogue alter ego, Clara's vocal and my recent addition Zero-G Ethera (which I regret buying since the content is not as good as being advertised and need lots of EQ reverbing).
- However I am unable to recreate a desired vocals even after I layer multiple instances of kontakt (about 16 clara vocals in 5 different kontakt instances). And also this is time consuming and cpu draining.

2. Pricing after currencies exchange
- Most of the choirs sample I have searched up (except Tarilonte's and Strezov since I did little research about them until today) pricing is around S$800+ after conversion. And hence, I try my best to short-down list to the one with the most functions and usage.
- While for why I keep 8dio Lacrimosa in my list, is as what stated by @SnowTeddy. I may have been too hype seeing it being used by many online streaming composer and may end up regret buying it.
Thanks a lot for sharing all of your opinions on 8dio Lacrimosa.

3. Sample libraries versatility
- This is just a my own preference. I usually prefer to buy just one library and fully utilize it for all different composition style which i am and planning to explore (which is practically impossible since most of the manual i read through, have different objective in developing a certain libraries).
- So this sums up the main reason EW SC on my list. Also @Grandvision. thanks a lot for sharing your input on EW SC and EQ tips to get a crisper sound.

- Just a side note (not very important) the reason I kept Soundiron's product out of my list is because I always have internet trouble downloading their update using CONNECT. Most of the time, it kept stuck at 99% and even after leaving my laptop on a few days it is still the same. I am not sure whether is it server or my pc problem since I have no issues with other companies such as Native Instrument, CSS and Embertone since from what I have heard and seen in demo, they are quite good.

In Short :
* So after testing numerous available torrented copy of these products listed in this link (https://goo.gl/zImBRh)in my old copy, I finally come to the 8dio lacrimosa and EW symphonic choir.
I acknowledge the aging sample of EWSC but it was on my list because of its versatility ( if I were to buy platinum version ,I can explore different genre WITH ONLY 1 LIBRARIES BOUGHT, as demonstrated in most YT video)
* While for 8dio lacrimosa, I may be thinking of switching it with either 8dio Requiem Light or maybe strezov's if i can really afford (maybe i will wait for sales)

@Soundchris @SnowTeddy @Grandvision
Lastly, thanks a lot for sharing your detailed feedback, input and experience in using related vocal choir libraries. Advance apology if my reason stated above may sound a bit childish and irrelevant.
Also apology for my lengthy reply.
Thank you.

Regards,
DwightFalcon

[zybor]

there's another person who would vouch for Lacrimosa, @ForgottenDawn. he's more experienced with it than me.

it's not a bad library depend on what kind of content you focus on. with Lacrimosa all you have is big choir. I'm not sure if they updated the attack issue with Soundiron Requiem Light, cos this dated years ago. Also Requiem Pro is slightly cheaper than Lacrimosa.

Of course, you could wait for them to go on sales in summer or black friday.

[ForgottenDawn]

At 3/12/17 01:17 PM, SnowTeddy wrote: there's another person who would vouch for Lacrimosa, @ForgottenDawn. he's more experienced with it than me.

Thank you for the mention, man. :)

While I'm still practicing, Lacrimosa is undoubtedly a powerful library. It has a nice booming sound and it's great for that "live" choir feel. Definitely not chamber orchestra-like, you really can't keep something like that dry, which might be a con for some. In terms of usability, if you're familiar with Requiem Pro, then you won't find many differences here. At its core, it's always the same sustains, marcato, and staccato patches.

The click about this library however, is Multi-vowel. What does that mean? It's basically an advanced staccato engine that plays 2 or 3 tempo-synced notes in succession by only pressing a note. The result is a smoother performance compared to what you would achieve with a simple staccato patch, and I think it was intentional. It's great for rapid-fire, intense sections rather than slow, more textural works where instead arcs or sustains would be better suited.

Another great thing about Lacrimosa is true legato. That one sounds amazing to me and I think it rivals EWQL like nothing. It takes a while to really nail it down when it comes to realism, but the starting impact is impressive for a virtual choir and one of the best legato's I've ever heard.

Price is something I'm iffy about. I got the library at 40% off, so I'd wait for a seasonal or Black Friday sale.

[SoundChris]

At 3/12/17 01:17 PM, SnowTeddy wrote: Of course, you could wait for them to go on sales in summer or black friday.

8Dio´s best sales usually are their Aniversary (4. of August) and the Black Friday Sale (November). There you get almost everything 40% off.

[DwightFalcon]

Hi @SnowTeddy and @SoundChris,
Thanks for sharing info regarding 8dio annual sales. Hopefully I will be able to get good bargain in upcoming sales. Once again thanks for sharing your input.

Hi @ForgottenDawn,
So I just checked the EastWest YT channel and found out that they have just / finally upload an video overview on EWSC (https://goo.gl/cnsKFD).
By comparing the video demo with 8dio Lacrimosa, I agreed with your statement that Lacrimosa is not for chamber choir. What impressed me the most from 8dio demo is the multi vowel as mentioned but I personally dont find it quite useful for me since I am not good at creating bombastic epic composition. Perhaps the true legato may helps in my compostion works but unfortunately from what I heard in the core vowel video demo, i dont find them as pleasing/ easily integrated with other instruments. But anyways thanks a lot for sharing your personal opinion on the 8dio lacrimosa.

Hi All,

Just one last thing I want to ask your opinions.
I did some late night research yesterday and stumbled upon a sampler called Spectrasonics Omnisphere 2. From most of its YT demo, I found that its choirs are actually good (please correct me if I am wrong since I am gullible), especially the japansese child choir patch and gospel patch. What impress me the most is the the numbers of unique instruments offered in the whole giant pack.
Do any of you happen to have a copy of it and would you mind share your review / input on it? (just on the choir section)
Was it really worth the price or is only a certain part of its libraries are good?

Thanks in advance and apology for the abrupt question again.

Regards,
DwightFalcon

[zybor]

yeah you can technically ride along with only Omnisphere stuff. check out @Step stuff as he made a lot of them with nearly only Omnisphere. it is worth getting Omnisphere 2, however their choir stuff isn't that reliable.