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Voting System Overhaul Proposal

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Response to Voting System Overhaul Proposal 2015-01-13 22:40:53


Hey Tom, the one thing that always got me was that my NG level didn't mean much other than increased voting power.

After the NG redesign it seemed like my NG profile stats got pushed into a corner and more out of sight.

I always thought as having an account on NG was like an RPG, you vote in the portal, gain exp and level up as if the site was like a game to promote community participation and self moderation. But really what are you voting for.

Maybe adding profile achievements to keep members interested and something to set goals towards would be an easy start. Like 5 Years of Service, Reached Level 60, Wrote 10k Reviews, Won Daily Feature Award.

BTW I like the idea of having the review score taking more weight over the voting, I know a long time ago people just voted 0 or 5 and many tried to cheat the system. Also only voting once is good.

------Story-time-----------
Funny story about people, I learnt something about human behavior about polls, when given the option of 0 to 5 and a negative joke option, a large number of people will always select the negative joke, when asked about it they said because it's fun. When people are put in a negative experience such as a poor service and given a quality of service survey, the majority of people voted highest quality of service, when asked about why they voted the best, they answered "I was being sarcastic" or "I just wanted to get away from the survey". Bizarre

Response to Voting System Overhaul Proposal 2015-01-13 22:57:07


At 1/12/15 09:27 AM, TomFulp wrote:
You will gain 2 XP for each vote, with a max of 10 XP daily.

On weekends you will be able to log up to 20 XP daily.

XP is logged instantly, no more five vote minimum requirement.

this sounds perfect it sounds much better then what we have right now cause sometimes you just cant find 5 things you wanna vote on.

Response to Voting System Overhaul Proposal 2015-01-13 22:59:59


At 1/13/15 10:48 PM, King-Duckford wrote:
At 1/13/15 10:06 PM, RealFaction wrote:
If the change can be made, and socks kept out of manipulation, than perhaps this is the solution we really do need. By taking out the abusive voters, we can all take scores more seriously, and those that counter vote abusive voters can rest easy. But I fear it could create a more corrupt system than what we currently see.

I see what you mean, unfortunately those groups of people have corrupted the site making the good artists look bad and having to suffer from it, so you're not wrong there. However, I've been watching this thread, Tom did mention earlier that it's possible to log IPs so it MAY be possible to prevent multiple account voting in a sense if this does change and could prevent abusing the system. I hope thats the case.


New Piercing Lazer album "The Other Side Chronicles" coming June 8th to Itunes, BandCamp, and other digital stores!

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Response to Voting System Overhaul Proposal 2015-01-13 23:18:00


Will there be a way to stop people from making reviews what aren't reviews? like dumb comments or "reviews" that just contain one word.

Response to Voting System Overhaul Proposal 2015-01-13 23:26:22


At 1/13/15 10:35 AM, TomFulp wrote:
At 1/12/15 09:46 PM, TharosTheDragon wrote: In all seriousness, there's one major problem with all this that you might've missed. If you can only vote for each submission once, and your experience for the day is still capped, then if you "do overtime" by voting for no experience then you'll never be able to get experience for the extra stuff you voted for. One solution that I can see is to change everyone's routine by just doing away with the cap altogether, and have it be like the way Armor Games used to be. You can vote as many times a day as you like since there are only so many submissions to possibly vote on.
I never want to do anything that could allow someone to write a mass-voting script and suddenly overtake people who have been voting every day for the past 15-16 years.

HOWEVER, we will be able to show a total for how many submissions you have voted on across NG, we could even create a chart that shows your breakdown between Portals. I assume we could probably log votes on blammed submissions too, so you could have some "ghost score" value that other users can't even catch up with because those games and movies don't exist for newcomers to vote on.

Hey, big thanks for replying to my post, Tom. That's a good point about the mass-voting script.

But I hope you do consider one of my other suggestions. I'm concerned because some people having different voting patterns and might be coming to Newgrounds to play the same submissions every day, like Phoenotopia or something. Since they play fewer submissions, they need each submission they vote on to count, and it's kind of unfair if they play something every day but will never be able to get points for voting on it because the one time they voted on it they were already doing overtime. Won't you consider giving them the ability to check in on a game they already voted on without getting experience and claim that experience later?

Also, I thought of another thing. If people can get more XP on weekends, people will be playing more things on weekends, which means developers will all want to release their stuff on a weekend to get more plays. The weekday submissions might suffer. There will probably be much fewer of them.


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Response to Voting System Overhaul Proposal 2015-01-13 23:39:43


At 1/13/15 11:18 PM, JaredinoV2 wrote: Will there be a way to stop people from making reviews what aren't reviews? like dumb comments or "reviews" that just contain one word.

Make a minimum for amount of characters you have to enter like 5 words or something, that'll change that.


New Piercing Lazer album "The Other Side Chronicles" coming June 8th to Itunes, BandCamp, and other digital stores!

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Response to Voting System Overhaul Proposal 2015-01-14 00:42:42


At 1/13/15 11:39 PM, RealFaction wrote: Make a minimum for amount of characters you have to enter like 5 words or something, that'll change that.

Or 150 at least? I mean come on. Any review that has any weight should contain at least three full sentences.


[Report Rule-Breaking Portal Submissions] - [I don't actually have a personality]

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Response to Voting System Overhaul Proposal 2015-01-14 01:56:49


Personally, I'm not a fan of the weekend XP boost, I'll try to keep this quick:

1) Time zones issue (already stated). I've been on forum sites that ran events based on specific times zones that didn't line up with my own available hours. This left me feeling alienated as a user because I had a distinct, ever-present disadvantage to my participation.

2) Personally, I have less weekend time than I do weekday time. Obviously whoever has more time to invest will get greater return on projects, in this case, reviewing submissions up to the XP limit per day. However, this will be compounded with further favoring those with more weekend time. This adds the risk of making users feel left behind because they're not your ideal, weekend crowd you want to reward.

- I submit my own counterpoint; weekend bonus may allow some users to feel they can "make up" missed points from a weekday. To refute that, I point back to the fact those with more time to invest get the rewards. I prefer the system's flat-rate to avoid false sense of favoritism.

If this idea does get implemented, I suggest you plan a way to judge the success of the bonus. Does it lead to more reviews from more users? More reviews from the the same group of users? Does it add any quality to the quantity of reviews, or, does it add repetition of votes? (Such as spamming all 5's or all 0's for those trying to bypass the system).

Response to Voting System Overhaul Proposal 2015-01-14 01:57:10


I really like this new voting system thou I would like the ability to respond to creators responses, I'm getting tired of snarky, 1 up remarks that I cant slap back in their face.

Response to Voting System Overhaul Proposal 2015-01-14 02:00:54


At 1/13/15 11:18 PM, JaredinoV2 wrote: Will there be a way to stop people from making reviews what aren't reviews? like dumb comments or "reviews" that just contain one word.

I think this has been a problem for years now. People have started treating reviews like YouTube comments.

Maybe there is a way to separate the two? Submissions could have reviews, and discussions.
But maybe that is too much for some people. They might not respect/understand the point of making that distinction.

I really do miss the days when people sat and wrote out thoughtful reviews that were critical and helpful.


GAH!

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Response to Voting System Overhaul Proposal 2015-01-14 03:30:36


At 1/12/15 09:27 AM, TomFulp wrote: The new voting system will be universal for all Portals (games, movies, audio, art).

You will gain 2 XP for each vote, with a max of 10 XP daily.

that's better, but how about 1 XP for each vote, with a max of 5 per portal, 20 daily?? That way users (the ones that care about stats and voting power, that is) would be encouraged to venture through all portals.

On weekends you will be able to log up to 20 XP daily.

Doesn't sound like the best of ideas considering time zones and more importantly the potential uneven flow of content on the weekends, however unplanned "happy hours" or days were users can gain additional exp may be worth looking into.

XP is logged instantly, no more five vote minimum requirement.

All existing score data will be backed up but no longer used. Review scores will become the new existing score data.

Users can only vote once on each piece of content and can edit that vote whenever they want.

The score that shows in your review is the same score as your vote, there is just one location on the page to enter you score.

You can hide your score or submit a review without a score (many people are anti-scoring).

Combined voting and reviewing box, default appearance.

What you see after voting.

What you see when you click the review text field.

What you see after submitting your review.

Once you write a review, it always appears above the other reviews on the page, so you can see what you wrote and edit (or delete?) if desired.

Let me know your thoughts on this plan!

The rest are all good ideas- personally I think a quantified voting system is a bit old hat in this digital age; most places go by a like/dislike system (or preferably just a like/+1 system); not sure how the content ends up being ranked and displayed though...but at the end of the day review scores are more meaningful (and thus should be weighed accordingly) than anonymous votes. A new minimum character limit would be necessary, as well as a (more) active reviewing team to filter out spam reviews...Although it's a little unfair for younger users and those that don't have English as a first language. The biggest downside to this proposal is it would discourage these groups from participating, which may then correlate with less views.

regarding the GUI- I would swap the stars with Pico/Darnell/etc. faces for old times sake

Response to Voting System Overhaul Proposal 2015-01-14 03:30:56


At 1/12/15 09:27 AM, TomFulp wrote: The new voting system will be universal for all Portals (games, movies, audio, art).

This is good.

You will gain 2 XP for each vote, with a max of 10 XP daily.

I'm fine with this.

On weekends you will be able to log up to 20 XP daily.

Sure, why not?

XP is logged instantly, no more five vote minimum requirement.

I like this as well.

All existing score data will be backed up but no longer used. Review scores will become the new existing score data.

This confuses me but from what I understand voting without reviewing will still be around.

Users can only vote once on each piece of content and can edit that vote whenever they want.

I don't like this. Mostly because hardly anyone posts flashes anymore and the video player is pretty shit. Because of that I just vote on 5 of my favorites every day and THEN try to explore the site for stuff. If this happens I'll more than likely just stop trying to watch things at all and maybe just only vote on music or art and even then i might just vote 5 on the first 5 things I come across just to get my exp out of the way.

The score that shows in your review is the same score as your vote, there is just one location on the page to enter you score.

And if I don't want to review?

Anyway, hope this post comes out right since there is no preview post button.

Response to Voting System Overhaul Proposal 2015-01-14 03:32:25


If it means keeping rip off games with more reviews of '0' than I think I've ever seen, like this piece of crap,

off the front page I'm all for any changes. Seriously how did this make the front page? It should have been removed by the Portal Mods. It's a complete and utter Kingdom Rush rip-off that asks you to actually pay real money for in-game extras. Games like this should NEVER be front paged. Check the reviews you'll see what I mean.

Response to Voting System Overhaul Proposal 2015-01-14 05:16:45


At 1/14/15 03:32 AM, gamejunkie wrote: If it means keeping rip off games with more reviews of '0' than I think I've ever seen, like this piece of crap,
http://www.newgrounds.com/portal/view/651699
off the front page I'm all for any changes. Seriously how did this make the front page? It should have been removed by the Portal Mods. It's a complete and utter Kingdom Rush rip-off that asks you to actually pay real money for in-game extras. Games like this should NEVER be front paged. Check the reviews you'll see what I mean.

This. It seems when this was front paged someone didn't play enough of the FP'ed games to notice how ripped off it is. Way I see it, someone should read the reviews before making a risky chance like that. Who frontpaged that??? :/ this...bothers me.


New Piercing Lazer album "The Other Side Chronicles" coming June 8th to Itunes, BandCamp, and other digital stores!

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Response to Voting System Overhaul Proposal 2015-01-14 05:34:35


EXP in AUDIO PORTAL :D Litteraly most exciting thing I've heared all year. Been looking forward to a change like this since I Uploaded my first song in 2009.

Response to Voting System Overhaul Proposal 2015-01-14 05:39:40


At 1/14/15 05:16 AM, RealFaction wrote:
At 1/14/15 03:32 AM, gamejunkie wrote: If it means keeping rip off games with more reviews of '0' than I think I've ever seen, like this piece of crap,
http://www.newgrounds.com/portal/view/651699
off the front page I'm all for any changes. Seriously how did this make the front page? It should have been removed by the Portal Mods. It's a complete and utter Kingdom Rush rip-off that asks you to actually pay real money for in-game extras. Games like this should NEVER be front paged. Check the reviews you'll see what I mean.
This. It seems when this was front paged someone didn't play enough of the FP'ed games to notice how ripped off it is. Way I see it, someone should read the reviews before making a risky chance like that. Who frontpaged that??? :/ this...bothers me.

http://www.newgrounds.com/bbs/topic/1381611

I think that this might clear things up for you guys. Haven't played the game yet, so I have no opinion, but the flood of low reviews for a submission in a showcased space is alarming.

... Unless the game is full of cocks, in which case I fully understand :)


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This sounds super badass. Anything to make voting on movies under judgment more desirable (and not just making them go through judgment faster)

ed: but the beautiful people who actually vote more than five times per day will probably feel like voting more hurts their EXP, even though it realistically doesn't, leaving some Flashes to fall through the sieve

Response to Voting System Overhaul Proposal 2015-01-14 06:52:52


I have been voting on the same 5 submissions for 11.89 years I think its time I vote on some other work.


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Response to Voting System Overhaul Proposal 2015-01-14 08:09:28


At 1/12/15 09:27 AM, TomFulp wrote: The new voting system will be universal for all Portals (games, movies, audio, art).
On weekends you will be able to log up to 20 XP daily.

Yes. Just... Yes.


*sigh*

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Response to Voting System Overhaul Proposal 2015-01-14 10:37:39


At 1/13/15 06:05 PM, SourJovis wrote: Sounds okay. I think this will work against zero bombing and upvoting. I just wonder how this will turn out in reality. A few things I'm concerned about. I'm actually very grateful for all of the reviews I've got in the past. I'm working on an album that includes all of the songs I've made over the past 3 years, and I like to go back to the comments I've received over the years so I know how to improve the songs. Should I back up these reviews now in a document on my own computer, so I can go back to them? Also I'm curious about the level/rank and whistle systems. Will they stay? Will we keep our current levels, or will we have to start over again?

Your reviews will stay - they aren't going anywhere! Level/rank will stay and we do still plan to bring back a more global whistle system. You'll keep your levels - much of the experience will be untouched.


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Response to Voting System Overhaul Proposal 2015-01-14 10:53:55


I think this big change will be great for the voting system and bring some more life to everything. I look forward to it :)

Response to Voting System Overhaul Proposal 2015-01-14 11:18:39


I'm all for that, It didn't make much sense that you could only get exp off of voting for games and movies, Exp for EVERYONE!

Response to Voting System Overhaul Proposal 2015-01-14 11:19:09


I love it. All of it. :]

At 1/12/15 10:59 AM, TomFulp wrote: This is a good point and is scary... The "accurate" votes of reviewers could be drowned out by the votes of the general voting population. We could still have the option of only looking at the scores attached to reviews, if we wanted to come up with a dedicated "review score" stat. I THINK that would still be as accurate as the current review scores.

Maybe the votes from reviews that are "upvoted" enough could have a bonus weight in the average. (Though I don't think many people actually use the + and - buttons.)

At 1/12/15 12:30 PM, TomFulp wrote: Maybe there's another way we could implement that sort of system - maybe you can gain points this way but instead of spending those points to upload content, you spend them to get a spot in some promotional space somewhere. Variations on that sort of idea have come up in the past as well (spending points for promotion). Anything that encourages artists to review other artists more seems good.

Maybe bonus points could be awarded each time a review is upvoted.

Also, I wasn't allowed to post the original form of this message because it was 87% quoted text. :P

Response to Voting System Overhaul Proposal 2015-01-14 12:27:38


@TomFulp So to clarify. I would have to vote 5 times a day on the week day to get the 10xp.

But if I was to vote on the same submission I voted on the previous day, this wouldn't count towards my 10xp? Or would it?

I'm assuming it wouldn't? Which is good, it will have people looking at more submissions and voting on those rather than just pressing 5 on everything on the front page.


I support this idea. It would be nice to be able to earn exp points from voting on audio and art submissions.

Plus, I never understood why you can only gain exp points by voting on games and movies.


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Response to Voting System Overhaul Proposal 2015-01-14 12:41:52


Sounds mostly good, but I don't know how I feel about a mere 10 XP a day limit.


Ecchi first, ask questions never.

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Response to Voting System Overhaul Proposal 2015-01-14 12:57:38


At 1/14/15 12:31 PM, Vinnyy wrote: I support this idea. It would be nice to be able to earn exp points from voting on audio and art submissions.

Plus, I never understood why you can only gain exp points by voting on games and movies.

Because they set up the voting system before they had audio and art submissions.

Response to Voting System Overhaul Proposal 2015-01-14 13:52:28


Right on!!! anything you guys at NG think is a good idea im all for. :)

I just have one concern though, no matter what we, are "not" going to loss our current Level influence and ranking correct?
:/

Response to Voting System Overhaul Proposal 2015-01-14 14:36:13


Looks pretty cool, can't find anything to complain about, really.

I would like the option to delete some of my more embarrassing reviews, too.


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Response to Voting System Overhaul Proposal 2015-01-14 15:14:35


At 1/14/15 12:27 PM, Aprime wrote: But if I was to vote on the same submission I voted on the previous day, this wouldn't count towards my 10xp? Or would it?

I'm assuming it wouldn't? Which is good, it will have people looking at more submissions and voting on those rather than just pressing 5 on everything on the front page.

That is correct, you would need to find new things to vote on to gain additional XP. It's a bummer for people who like to come back and upvote their favorites but still feels like the way forward.


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