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Voting System Overhaul Proposal

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Response to Voting System Overhaul Proposal 2015-01-13 10:16:32


At 1/12/15 07:50 PM, HipnikDragomir wrote: The box that says "__ XP to next level" is way too basic-looking. It needs a little bit more pizazz. Also, in the review box, if we press "enter/return", will it add another line of text like the normal post box does? I don't want the redesign to encourage really basic comments as opposed to actual criticism.

Yup the review box will let you write the same amount of text as you do now, pressing Enter won't auto-submit the review.


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Response to Voting System Overhaul Proposal 2015-01-13 10:29:39


At 1/12/15 08:49 PM, Kajenx wrote:
At 1/12/15 09:27 AM, TomFulp wrote: Once you write a review, it always appears above the other reviews on the page, so you can see what you wrote and edit (or delete?) if desired.
This is good too. It used to be like this, didn't it?

We never had the option to edit reviews.

You can hide your score or submit a review without a score (many people are anti-scoring).
I like this too. Sometimes I want to leave a comment but adding a score doesn't seem appropriate, lol...

Agreed!


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Response to Voting System Overhaul Proposal 2015-01-13 10:35:53


At 1/12/15 09:46 PM, TharosTheDragon wrote: In all seriousness, there's one major problem with all this that you might've missed. If you can only vote for each submission once, and your experience for the day is still capped, then if you "do overtime" by voting for no experience then you'll never be able to get experience for the extra stuff you voted for. One solution that I can see is to change everyone's routine by just doing away with the cap altogether, and have it be like the way Armor Games used to be. You can vote as many times a day as you like since there are only so many submissions to possibly vote on.

I never want to do anything that could allow someone to write a mass-voting script and suddenly overtake people who have been voting every day for the past 15-16 years.

HOWEVER, we will be able to show a total for how many submissions you have voted on across NG, we could even create a chart that shows your breakdown between Portals. I assume we could probably log votes on blammed submissions too, so you could have some "ghost score" value that other users can't even catch up with because those games and movies don't exist for newcomers to vote on.


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Response to Voting System Overhaul Proposal 2015-01-13 10:38:32


At 1/12/15 11:55 PM, NeonSpider wrote: Not sure if it's been addressed yet, but are you going to do anything about users who make a bunch of alt accounts to abuse the voting system to take down stuff they don't like?

This is another benefit of the overhaul - right now we don't log who voted what beyond our daily IP log to prevent mass-voting from the same IP. The new system will log every vote and give us the ability to look for abusive patterns.


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Response to Voting System Overhaul Proposal 2015-01-13 10:40:57


At 1/12/15 09:27 AM, TomFulp wrote:

All existing score data will be backed up but no longer used. Review scores will become the new existing score data.

For someone like me who has been a dedicated voter for exp for many years now, will it now all have been for nothing in terms of exp then? :( I probably sound selfish but.. no I dont like this part at all, not after beeing so devoted to making sure I got my votes through each day for the last 10 years. (that is if I understood this part correctly)

The rest how ever.. I personaly never had any problems with the current system but some of the changes I got no problems with, I like that you can get exp from voting on art and audio though why dubble exp on weekends, I guess its nice but, why exactly ? and will it require 10 votes or is it 4 exp per vote?

Response to Voting System Overhaul Proposal 2015-01-13 11:11:29


I would be super happy to see audio and art included in this. I spend most of my time with audio and art.

Response to Voting System Overhaul Proposal 2015-01-13 11:15:54


Are there any ideas being kicked around about unlocking "abilities" after gaining a certain amount of experience?

These abilities would be access to certain promotional tools within NG - not sure what exactly what those tools would be, but I feel more incentives should be made for gaining XP and leveling up. I don't think casual users should be ignored, but fostering the idea of "you get out what you put in" would be great. In my early days of Newgrounds, I always enjoyed the faux-RPG feel of voting and gaining access to new content after reaching certain levels. But in this case, the content would be new functionality to enrich your experience on NG.

Maybe gaining so much XP in a month grants you the ability to showcase something on the front page, something like that...?

Hopefully that makes sense.

Response to Voting System Overhaul Proposal 2015-01-13 11:44:46


At 1/13/15 11:15 AM, KyleRoberts wrote: Are there any ideas being kicked around about unlocking "abilities" after gaining a certain amount of experience?

I'd love to have more unlocks, just gotta come up with some that are so awesome they take priority over other projects.

The ability to feature stuff has been an exciting one but it also has to work if a bunch of users have that ability and might be competing for the space... Maybe there would be some scheduling system and you just need the luck of checking in at the right time to schedule something (and then have a waiting period before you have the option again).


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Response to Voting System Overhaul Proposal 2015-01-13 11:50:05


At 1/13/15 11:44 AM, TomFulp wrote: The ability to feature stuff has been an exciting one but it also has to work if a bunch of users have that ability and might be competing for the space... Maybe there would be some scheduling system and you just need the luck of checking in at the right time to schedule something (and then have a waiting period before you have the option again).

It could be put in a queue, cooldown of 1 month to use the option again and each showing is allowed a set number of impressions, so after say 50,000 impressions, it left the queue and the next item moved up the list. But you could have 10 items on rotation at a given time, rather than just one at a time. It would also need to be screened by someone to approve it, you can't just have anything going through right?


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Response to Voting System Overhaul Proposal 2015-01-13 13:36:59


I like this update very much so, especially the EXP for Audio Voting. Can't believe that was implemented sooner.

Now add a Reply To This Thread button at the bottom of forum threads. Thanks.


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Response to Voting System Overhaul Proposal 2015-01-13 13:45:48


I have a fever and am kinda delirious, so sorry if this was already addressed, or if i just misread the post.

You said you can leave a review without choosing a score, but It might be a good thing to also allow people to leave a score without a review.

All this stuff sounds really great! And I do like it a lot. But some people might find it too tedious to write a well thought out review every time they vote. Especially the defenders of the portal who review 20+ submissions a day.
Reviewing 20+ submissions a day is tough, but writing 20+ thought out reviews may be too much to ask (and heck, for some asking them to do it once may be too much). I feel like reviews are going to get stripped down to "good" or "bad" or "crap".

And there is a difference between a bad submissions that an author really did try hard to make good (I love leaving a well thought out helpful comment) and a bad submission that they put 0 effort into (its like, if you didn't care enough to at least TRY to make the submission good, why am i going to waist my time writing a review, clearly he/she don't care, and there not going to care about my review).


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Response to Voting System Overhaul Proposal 2015-01-13 14:08:21


For the longest time I've wondered why Audio and Art weren't included with the rest. So I'm all up for the overhaul, I can finally gain XP for voting on my favorite art! Although... I have to say I like seeing those different faces and little comments when voting like "Respect" and "Great work d00d".


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Response to Voting System Overhaul Proposal 2015-01-13 14:10:53


At 1/13/15 01:45 PM, deathink wrote: I have a fever and am kinda delirious, so sorry if this was already addressed, or if i just misread the post.

You said you can leave a review without choosing a score, but It might be a good thing to also allow people to leave a score without a review.

No no no, It's the other way around, you can leave a vote/score without writing a review. I agree it would be way too tedious to write so many reviews haha.


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Response to Voting System Overhaul Proposal 2015-01-13 14:44:53


Man, this a pretty good idea, I'm in!

Response to Voting System Overhaul Proposal 2015-01-13 15:00:25


At 1/13/15 10:15 AM, TomFulp wrote: We want to add a Like button on blog posts and if we get that going we might as well add it to forum posts too. The fact is people love feedback and "micro-interactions" that show you people are reading your stuff even when they aren't saying anything back.

I can definitely attest to that. I use a few other forums as well, and when I get a notification that someone likes my post, I feel a bit more compelled to respond.


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Response to Voting System Overhaul Proposal 2015-01-13 15:13:27


At 1/13/15 03:00 PM, Sectus wrote:
At 1/13/15 10:15 AM, TomFulp wrote: We want to add a Like button on blog posts and if we get that going we might as well add it to forum posts too. The fact is people love feedback and "micro-interactions" that show you people are reading your stuff even when they aren't saying anything back.
I can definitely attest to that. I use a few other forums as well, and when I get a notification that someone likes my post, I feel a bit more compelled to respond.

I agree. It's kinda funny because I made jokes in the past about a like button being installed because people were saying that Newgrounds was pretty much becoming youtube.

I wonder, does this mean the standard voting from 0 to five stars is going to be removed and it will just be focused on the reviews?

Response to Voting System Overhaul Proposal 2015-01-13 15:37:02


@TomFulp The new voting system sounds like a very good idea. Do you have any plans for a literature portal at some point?


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Response to Voting System Overhaul Proposal 2015-01-13 15:51:17


I skimmed through about a page I think, so I didn't see alot of replies. Am I the only one who will miss the little pictures with the offensive comments though? It's a part of Newgrounds, this website used to be edgy, not in a corny way, but it's like this website's culture. Am I the only one who think we're losing that culture?

Response to Voting System Overhaul Proposal 2015-01-13 16:17:17


At 1/13/15 09:48 AM, Tony-DarkGrave wrote: instead of fucking with the vote system (Which is fine by the way) why not ohhhh I don't know.... maybe get that Lit Portal up and maybe a functional chat? if you think this is gonna bring in people by tweaking the vote system your delusional.

You're just mad that you won't be able to zero-bomb anymore.


Should be interesting to see what happens if this idea is deployed. Maybe it will help fight voting abuse, maybe it won't. Something does need to give, especially as getting noticed or featured around here tends to get rewarded by down-voting, especially from some very determined people for days, weeks and sometimes even several months depending on how long your content stays featured or anywhere near the first page of the leader boards.

I remember having a few tracks that ended up being locked in Featured Content for some reason for 11 months. Like clockwork, I watched the scores decrease a good chunk every day as if the voter(s) seemed to think a wave of daily zeroes would knock those two songs out of Featured Content. To think that continued for nearly a year and those tracks continued to be stuck in Featured Content. It was almost like some kind of sweet revenge that was served up courtesy of what was probably a server glitch.

Response to Voting System Overhaul Proposal 2015-01-13 18:05:48


Sounds okay. I think this will work against zero bombing and upvoting. I just wonder how this will turn out in reality. A few things I'm concerned about. I'm actually very grateful for all of the reviews I've got in the past. I'm working on an album that includes all of the songs I've made over the past 3 years, and I like to go back to the comments I've received over the years so I know how to improve the songs. Should I back up these reviews now in a document on my own computer, so I can go back to them? Also I'm curious about the level/rank and whistle systems. Will they stay? Will we keep our current levels, or will we have to start over again?


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Response to Voting System Overhaul Proposal 2015-01-13 18:09:28


The voting system sounds good; especially doubling xp on weekends is neat. Now would be the perfect time to add secrets to unlock to give people more incentive to vote. Other than that everything seems good to me.

Response to Voting System Overhaul Proposal 2015-01-13 19:11:36


An excellent proposal!!!!


"We have too many people who live without working, and altogether too many who work without living." Charles Brown

Response to Voting System Overhaul Proposal 2015-01-13 19:18:15


Sounds Good TO Me. As long as The 5 star System is still In place, We're Good.

Response to Voting System Overhaul Proposal 2015-01-13 20:32:00


This system should be more sensible than the last one, but I was under the assumption that NG used the old system of two scores (the one from votes and the one from reviews) for a good reason and I just never bothered to question it.

Either way, it seems okay to me.


...is it me or has politics suddenly become a series of mandatory lightning rounds in a mandatory game show?

Response to Voting System Overhaul Proposal 2015-01-13 20:51:28


sounds great! I'd love to see people not spam videos with poor scores

Response to Voting System Overhaul Proposal 2015-01-13 21:47:12


I feel like this really validates people in the audio portal and creates a more fair system. These changes make me want to get more active posting material and reviewing! Thanks for listening to users and implementing these changes, Tom. :D

Response to Voting System Overhaul Proposal 2015-01-13 21:57:59


At 1/12/15 09:27 AM, TomFulp wrote: Voting System Overhaul Proposal

Please respond with feedback!

That all sounds pretty good. Do it.

Response to Voting System Overhaul Proposal 2015-01-13 22:06:16


At 1/13/15 09:48 PM, King-Duckford wrote: What a huge waste of time on your and the staff's part. The same crybaby losers who complain about the old system will cry for you to change the new one too. The people who complain about it are usually egotistical "artists" who ....

Wow. That was uncalled for and doesn't help anyone. I get what you're saying, not saying we don't have those, but there's a lot of "zero bombing" in the community and it has been a real thing, some people ADMITTING to it in the past saying it was because some people 5 voted their own tracks right after uploading them just to get to the top, which became unfair, so I also understand why some people 0 bomb, but now it's just everywhere for no reason.

We have trolls here, it's not an imaginary problem. It's not just the egotistical artists complaining about it. It's been this way since around 2007/2008 when it started becoming a problem as I noticed, a "trend" rather. People started abusing the voting system by either voting 0 on tracks just to get to the top, upvoting theirs daily, or voting 5 on a friend's track. None of it is fair to anyone.

What you said though is pretty careless and mean, you could've said it in a more constructive way that didn't make you sound so harsh. We don't need stuff like that on the forums, that just hurts the community more than helps it. I'm not saying there aren't "crybabies" here, but damn, it's not all the artists here, and that's just not going to help anyone the way you said it. Be constructive.


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Response to Voting System Overhaul Proposal 2015-01-13 22:30:03


I have absolutely no problem with the changes proposed.

Summary of my thoughts:

- It's about damn time NG only allows 1 vote per submission and i've always felt the voting system was broken without this limitation. It makes older content more valuable to browse through, it levels the playing field against vote system abuse. Granted, nothing is going to eliminate all vote system abuse, but at the same time the less convenient it is for the average joe to do the abusing, the better off everyone is.

- I have no problem with dumping old content scores. Out with the old, in with the new... I know not everyone agrees here.

- XP on audio/art portal is long overdue.

- Double XP weekends I'm not keen on... don't feel it's needed and it doesn't work for everyone.

- Consolidating the vote bar and reviewing makes a heck of a lot more sense.

- Anything that encourages people to explore Newgrounds is a plus. Even if the content the viewer experiences turns out to be a dud, it should be rewarding in some way.