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Voting System Overhaul Proposal

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Response to Voting System Overhaul Proposal 2015-01-15 13:28:55


Go for it Tom! I'm totally fine with the new voting system

Response to Voting System Overhaul Proposal 2015-01-15 14:11:21


At 1/14/15 11:41 PM, KelpTheGreat wrote: I don't feel like looking back through the whole thread to see if this has been asked, but will there finally be a way to sort reviews for content? I'd like to be able to sort reviews based on score, user opinions (helpful or not helpful), and length (to sort out the actual reviews from the one-sentence "I liked this" stuff).

I like the sorting by length idea. I generally like people to at least give SOME useful advice, other than "It sucks"/"Your gay"/"<Quote from the movie here>"/"awesome lol".

Response to Voting System Overhaul Proposal 2015-01-15 14:54:51


The only question I have thus far is when is this thing going to be implemented.


[Report Rule-Breaking Portal Submissions] - [I don't actually have a personality]

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Response to Voting System Overhaul Proposal 2015-01-15 14:58:17


Boooooooooooooooo


I'm Darwin7 you can keep the change

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Response to Voting System Overhaul Proposal 2015-01-15 14:59:38


I'm glad you're doing this because it got annoying having to vote on 5 submissions just to earn XP. Thanks Tom.


2019

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Response to Voting System Overhaul Proposal 2015-01-15 16:30:04


Interesting changes.

I almost always vote and review on the audio and occasionally the image gallery sections. I to be honest have never really noticed the lack of levelling up due to not voting in other area of NG - but leveling isn't really what I'm here for; good tunes and great artwork.

As for the new ideas, they're great - but why give people the option of hiding their review vote score? Surely if someone is to write a review the vote in part go hand in hand, often I give a good vote (4 say) and then write the review as if explaining why I gave that figure, the plus and minus points - if others don't see that figure (as the choice implies) it seems a bit less, well, honest.

What are the reasons for offering to hide the review? - as surely this would be a temptation to write excellent reviews but to give crap votes (or vice versa?). If someone gives a music/image a 5/5 stars and a slaggy review then the fact both can be displayed can let readers judge the quality of the reviewer and therefore the worth of the review?

Response to Voting System Overhaul Proposal 2015-01-15 17:08:59


At 1/15/15 04:30 PM, Psychophobe wrote: What are the reasons for offering to hide the review? - as surely this would be a temptation to write excellent reviews but to give crap votes (or vice versa?). If someone gives a music/image a 5/5 stars and a slaggy review then the fact both can be displayed can let readers judge the quality of the reviewer and therefore the worth of the review?

Over the years I've talked to a lot of artists who just aren't into the idea of scoring art, so I know there's a decent-sized community of people out there who want to offer critiques / reviews but don't feel comfortable attaching a score to it. Hoping we can give them an option as well.


Working on Nightmare Cops!

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Response to Voting System Overhaul Proposal 2015-01-15 18:40:43


At 1/12/15 09:27 AM, TomFulp wrote: Quick news: @Troisnyx is organizing a Newgrounds 20th Anniversary Collab! Respond in that thread if you'd like to participate!

My MAGFest talk was moved to 12pm on Sunday, Jan 25th. Come and say hi! Current NG attendees.

Voting System Overhaul Proposal

Please respond with feedback!

The new voting system will be universal for all Portals (games, movies, audio, art).

You will gain 2 XP for each vote, with a max of 10 XP daily.

On weekends you will be able to log up to 20 XP daily.

XP is logged instantly, no more five vote minimum requirement.

All existing score data will be backed up but no longer used. Review scores will become the new existing score data.

Users can only vote once on each piece of content and can edit that vote whenever they want.

The score that shows in your review is the same score as your vote, there is just one location on the page to enter you score.

You can hide your score or submit a review without a score (many people are anti-scoring).

Combined voting and reviewing box, default appearance.

What you see after voting.

What you see when you click the review text field.

What you see after submitting your review.

Once you write a review, it always appears above the other reviews on the page, so you can see what you wrote and edit (or delete?) if desired.

Let me know your thoughts on this plan!

I Like Everything About this New Voting System, Except 2. I Liked that Pico was on the Side, and that his Face was your Rating (It Always Makes Me Laugh), and I don't Like the Fact you can Only Vote Once. Yes, It is Accurate the Way you Plan to Change it, but say someone Plays the Game Again, and Likes it Even More, Making it a Different Experience from the First (as if a Different Person was Reviewing it). It Also gives a Way to Balance out the Good with the Bad. If Someone Likes Playing a Game, they'll have a Chance to Maintain (or Raise) its Score. Although this can be Bad, as some People Negatively Review the Same Game Over and Over Again (just because they Hate it), and some People Review a Bad Game with a Good Score Repetitively (as they Made it on Another Account, or they just like the Artist that Made it (Even though it Sucks), and are False Advertising). So Overall, this is a Good System, but I can't say I don't Like the Current System (Despite the Fact I can't Always Rate 5 Every Day). But if you could somehow Integrate these Features into the New System, it would be just Fine and Dandy.


A Screenshot from a DBZ Trailer I Made.....Part 1 Coming Soon!

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Response to Voting System Overhaul Proposal 2015-01-15 19:34:17


Do this

Response to Voting System Overhaul Proposal 2015-01-15 20:14:37


I approve of this.


No siggy here. La la la la la

I thought I said no signature

Honestly get out

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Response to Voting System Overhaul Proposal 2015-01-15 21:07:32


I, animelover, long time member and lurker supreme of Newgrounds, hereby declares approval for the planned changes to the voting system.

Long Live Tom Fulp!!!

Response to Voting System Overhaul Proposal 2015-01-15 21:16:17


Oh... It's ugly, though. And, we'll lose seeing the NG moscots, and that makes me sad.


Net Neutrality 2017!

Day-o day-o, mombajee ai-o,

Don't look any further

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Response to Voting System Overhaul Proposal 2015-01-15 21:16:22


As long I can still ninja my way to the top exp, I approuve!


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Response to Voting System Overhaul Proposal 2015-01-15 23:00:08


Read through 11 pages of comments, and these are my opinions of what I read.

I do like the idea of changing up the voting a little, and for the fact that it applies to all portals. Getting rid of having two different voting sections also seems like a good idea, and actually seeing a progress bar is a nice addition, but that could also just be something added to your profile page instead of taking up room in a voting area, even though it would be convenient to see it when voting.

The only major problem with the change would be the new scores for old submissions. I could see old submissions being grandfathered in and keeping their scores or something to compare the current score and what the new score would be, then doing something with that to determine the score. The idea you said of having the old score until the newer scores reach a determined threshold sounds like the best idea though.

In regards to the weekends allowing more xp, it could be cool. Your response saying that it would feel special with a limited window is kind of put down a little since it would be a constant thing happening each weekend. It would be better if there were specific times, like Pico day, or maybe when there's a contest happening when more voting is welcome. Also someone probably shouldn't get xp if they have adblock on when the page loads, It probably won't do too much, but if someone who has adblock enabled and is really into their newgrounds points, it would at least add five pages of ad revenue.

Another idea I read was having a max xp per portal per day, which could be nice and get people going to other parts of the site and seeing things that normally wouldn't see/hear.

Now the whole one vote per submission thing does make sense in a lot of ways, but it would be nice to still vote again at some points. Maybe instead of having only one vote, you can only vote for something again after a period of time like a month or something. Then again, you would get more accurate scores with one per account, so one per person would probably be best.

With editing your posts, it could work to have the 15 min edit window if you notice any mistakes in it, but after that not allow a change unless there is a new uploaded version. Makes me think of how the iTunes app store does it, with an all reviews tab and a current version tab. Maybe to combine my thoughts here, you can modify your vote after a period of time since after a while you may not enjoy the same things (like when I found all my Favorited YouTube videos from when I first created my account and instantly felt shame). If editing a review was allowed, it would be nice to have the old review logged and to be able to see what changed, I've seen this on some forums before.

There should also be something to stop people from making a ton of alt accounts like what they were saying on page 8.

Forcing a review on a no star submission also seems pretty good.

The whole idea of having a way to communicate with an author is a nice one, but the fact that it's a review section (probably my favorite way of seeing it put) instead of a comments section makes it something you won't want to see a million posts in. It would be nice to make a review of something, have the author reply, then allow you to reply to their response, with anything after the author's initial reply being hidden from everyone's view by default, or at least allow you to bring it into the private message system easily.

With the reviews it would be nice to have some incentive to say if it's a helpful review or if it isn't a helpful review (and maybe if it isn't a review at all but a pointless comment?), and also actually show a number on helpful-nonhelpful, and if something gets under a certain number (like -5, could be modified by the user) then it would be hidden from view if someone wants to have those reviews be hidden. The Rooster Teeth forums have this, and it's nice to not have to see things that aren't useful at all. Maybe also have something good that happens to people who post mostly helpful reviews, maybe like raising their daily max xp. Also it would be nice to allow sorting based on the helpfulness of reviews in addition to the date and rating currents.

Something that would be nice to somehow implement is doing something based on what the user actually did on the page. Like, give more weight to people who watch 90-100% of something in the movie/audio portal rather than people who do a preemptive rating, or maybe have it based on time they played of a game.

With the nostalgic people out there not liking the idea of not having the faces for the voting, there could be a single box next to the stars with a face in it that updates when you hover over a star or actually select a rating. I can imagine this making the voting area kind of cluttered, but someone smarter than me could probably figure something out to make it look good. While I myself am a pretty nostalgic person, I could accept this going away, but it would be nice to have it somewhere, even if it was an option to select a sitewide skin.

I'm also a fan of seeing some statistics about things, so it would be cool to be able to see a raw review score vs a score with peoples' voting power factored into it, or seeing an average score vs non-review scores vs scores with reviews. Also seeing an artist rating or something per portal based on their submissions to it. Not sure how welcome something like that would be to be added (especially if the voting isn't flawless), but it would be cool to view nonetheless. There could also be some kind of award given using those stats.

I also like jonthomson's ideas on page 6 about reintroducing the whistle and whatnot.

Site achievements (or medals I guess) is something I myself am really into, and it could be another way to make Newgrounds have a game aspect to it, like was discussed before.

Giving more rewards to higher levels could be cool, and maybe increasing the level cap too. Reworking the voting power might be a nice change too since a person could only vote once, as long as it doesn't get too ridiculous.

A preview button for the forums would also be nice.

I probably forgot most of what I was going to say, and it isn't in any good order since I was typing this all while reading through the posts, so enjoy my unedited distracted text.


If folks are uptight about losing the ability to vote 5 multiple times on a submission, howzabout giving them another way of showing respect for extraordinary submissions? After all, maybe there's something to be said for building a small hardcore fan base that wouldn't come across in an average score with one vote per person.

First thing that comes to my mind is to use favoriting -- I haven't stumbled across any way of listing flashes in order of how many favorites they got, but if such a thing existed, that could be a way of giving an extra "w00t!" without having to multi-vote. Or maybe let people pick a single "Best Flash EVAR!!" for each portal that they can change at any time, with a way to see the number of "EVARs" a flash got on the flash's page and on rating searches. Or maybe some other idea better than those if they would take a major site redesign to implement ^.^

If it would be too much work to do any of that, then one vote per flash sounds better to me than multi-voting. And I like letting people edit reviews whenever they want +/- keeping a log of the edits to keep people from abusing.


At 1/13/15 11:18 PM, JaredinoV2 wrote: Will there be a way to stop people from making reviews what aren't reviews? like dumb comments or "reviews" that just contain one word.

mark them as abusive, the same as you've been able to for a decade. at least when i used to be a review mod, they'd get dealt with fairly quickly, ymmv nowadays and idk how active the mods are now

At 1/14/15 12:42 AM, Sectus wrote:
At 1/13/15 11:39 PM, RealFaction wrote: Make a minimum for amount of characters you have to enter like 5 words or something, that'll change that.
Or 150 at least? I mean come on. Any review that has any weight should contain at least three full sentences.

150 words? for half the submissions here, writing one sentence takes longer than watching the movie.

At 1/15/15 11:08 AM, CypressDahlia wrote: You should just make "0" votes include a forced review.

yeah, i'd just make a .txt file that'd look like:

- bad two second stick movie, not worth a watch
- shovelware, come up with new ideas
- come back in 7 years and repackage this as "Pong: 50th Anniversary Edition", you might get more love
- oh hi there version 483768 of (bejeweled/flappy bird/parking simulator - delete as appropriate)
- when you have the same quality of animations and ideas as krinkels, then you can make a madness movie. until then, go away and don't come back until you have your own ideas
- newgrounds is not a suitable place to upload dress up games or content targetted at 7 year old girls
- do not submit incomplete or test works to the portal

problem solved. if someone votes zero on something, it should be incredibly obvious as to why, and not need explaining.

At 1/16/15 12:59 AM, 3p0ch wrote: If folks are uptight about losing the ability to vote 5 multiple times on a submission, howzabout giving them another way of showing respect for extraordinary submissions?

that's what voting 5 is for. if you vote 5 on everything, it dilutes the point of voting 5. if you want to show respect, write a quality review, favourite the author, link it on social media or something

Response to Voting System Overhaul Proposal 2015-01-16 06:44:19


At 1/15/15 11:00 PM, mattanderson776 wrote:
Also someone probably shouldn't get xp if they have adblock on when the page loads

most things don't even load with adblock on so that's kind of how it works already

Response to Voting System Overhaul Proposal 2015-01-16 07:18:13


At 1/16/15 06:41 AM, jonthomson wrote:
yeah, i'd just make a .txt file that'd look like:

- bad two second stick movie, not worth a watch
- shovelware, come up with new ideas
- come back in 7 years and repackage this as "Pong: 50th Anniversary Edition", you might get more love
- oh hi there version 483768 of (bejeweled/flappy bird/parking simulator - delete as appropriate)
- when you have the same quality of animations and ideas as krinkels, then you can make a madness movie. until then, go away and don't come back until you have your own ideas
- newgrounds is not a suitable place to upload dress up games or content targetted at 7 year old girls
- do not submit incomplete or test works to the portal

problem solved. if someone votes zero on something, it should be incredibly obvious as to why, and not need explaining.

That's because people like you are part of the problem and the reason I suggested such a system. If you took your focus away from your massive entitlement complex and your desire to "flex" your limited control over the voting system, maybe you would understand that ratings and reviews have and always were meant to be helpful and constructive. That's how artists grow and become better artists. Not a childish desire to demotivate and discourage.

You are part of a consumer-run system that is causing our best artists to leave Newgrounds. You feel so entitled to someone else's creativity that you think your negativity does not need an explanation. No artist has ever benefited from that. No artist will ever benefit from that. And if you actually cared about art or artists, you would realize that.

Response to Voting System Overhaul Proposal 2015-01-16 07:32:42


And I want you to think about this for a second. There are like millions of people who use Newgrounds, right? And a large fraction of them use the current voting system. But when an artist needs HELP, ADVICE, VALUABLE FEEDBACK, WHERE do they go? WHO do they turn to? To the few dozen regulars who inhabit their respective content forum. Think about it, MILLIONS of people use the current review system but it's done so little offer valuable feedback that we find ourselves turning to the same, few like-minded people over and over again for advice that actually helps. Doesn't that strike you as alarming?

It's because of people like you who think evaluating someone's work doesn't require an explanation. I could receive 200-300 votes on a single picture, but I'd still have to message someone on Facebook to get useful advice.

Response to Voting System Overhaul Proposal 2015-01-16 07:56:11


At 1/16/15 07:18 AM, CypressDahlia wrote:
That's because people like you are part of the problem and the reason I suggested such a system. If you took your focus away from your massive entitlement complex and your desire to "flex" your limited control over the voting system, maybe you would understand that ratings and reviews have and always were meant to be helpful and constructive. That's how artists grow and become better artists. Not a childish desire to demotivate and discourage.

You are part of a consumer-run system that is causing our best artists to leave Newgrounds. You feel so entitled to someone else's creativity that you think your negativity does not need an explanation. No artist has ever benefited from that. No artist will ever benefit from that. And if you actually cared about art or artists, you would realize that.

since when did our best artists start producing the type of crap i've described? that's wait, they don't. nobody would shed a tear if someone left newgrounds because "Shitty Generic Escape Game 469" actually got blammed rather than getting 2.2/5 because of morons voting five on rehashed shovelware.

go here:

http://www.newgrounds.com/rankings/bookmarks

and name all the people that started out by producing unfinished five second stick animations.

Response to Voting System Overhaul Proposal 2015-01-16 08:55:17


I like the changes!
XP for votes is nice, and it's a good gesture to allow more XP on days that are more likely to be free for the majority.
I like the score data being used from reviews; as an audio portal artist, reviews are always a better judgement of the work. And I especially like the "1 vote only option." Spamming votes to boost scores really doesn't help artists grow.

I am a little concerned about the "vote can be changed at any time concept." It seems like a door mat for voting down a flash, song, etc. while the featured works are being picked for the week, only to be resolved once it no longer matters. But then again, I do like to think the best of the community and hope it wouldn't be abused in that way. Plus it seems like 1 vote that can't be changed would encourage people to watch/listen all the way through a work before voting. BUT, you guys know more about this stuff than me ^_^

Everything else is solid. I fully endorse most of these changes.

Response to Voting System Overhaul Proposal 2015-01-16 09:29:06


At 1/16/15 07:56 AM, jonthomson wrote: since when did our best artists start producing the type of crap i've described? that's wait, they don't. nobody would shed a tear if someone left newgrounds because "Shitty Generic Escape Game 469" actually got blammed rather than getting 2.2/5 because of morons voting five on rehashed stuff
go here:
http://www.newgrounds.com/rankings/bookmarks
and name all the people that started out by producing unfinished five second stick animations.

Surely this is a self-fulfilling argument. We will never know if people had the potential to be great if they are disillusioned from the game making process (and the site) from the beginning

I'd understand if you'd vote 0 on a spam trashy flash, but a generic escape game is either made by a shovel ware company (which is probably going to be nuked by portal mods) or a user who's getting to grips with flash - who probably deserves an explanation about why you didn't give it a vote of 1 or 2.


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Response to Voting System Overhaul Proposal 2015-01-16 10:00:16


Sounds like a great idea! A more versatile voting system would benefit everyone on NG, I think.


I like aliens and robots too much.


At 1/16/15 07:56 AM, jonthomson wrote:
since when did our best artists start producing the type of crap i've described?

and name all the people that started out by producing unfinished five second stick animations.

All of them. All of them started that way. You seem to have a gross misunderstanding of artistic progress. We are not machines born with a certain threshold of talent required to satisfy an audience. Everyone starts as a piece of shit and depending on how quickly they can get positive guidance and advice, develops into someone like Egoraptor. Now you have a decision:

Are you going to be that positive guidance? Or are you going to just berate someone for not improving, even though when they present their work to you for FAIR CRITIQUE and REVIEW, it was your responsibility to guide and foster that improvement?

Think about it. These people who produce the "crap" you are so intent on blamming are here for that reason. Egoraptor was probably, at one point, a crap-maker on a different site or within a different society. He just chose to post his work on Newgrounds at a certain skill level. I'm 100% sure at one point or another he was drawing crappy stick figures and showing them to somebody. The only difference is he got the positive guidance needed to become who he is now.

Response to Voting System Overhaul Proposal 2015-01-16 11:40:50


At 1/16/15 06:44 AM, jonthomson wrote:
At 1/15/15 11:00 PM, mattanderson776 wrote:
Also someone probably shouldn't get xp if they have adblock on when the page loads
most things don't even load with adblock on so that's kind of how it works already

True, but you can easily modify the filter list in adblock to allow it to show the content and still disable preroll ads and site ads but still display the other content. If they write in the backend that if adblock is detected then the person won't get xp, and since it's written into the site you wouldn't be able to modify that with editing your filters. Doing this would allow the people who support the artists by viewing the ads have more voting power to support them more, and could even make some people at least whitelist Newgrounds and bring a little more ad revenue to the site/artists. Just kinda a small nice thought I think.

Also nice job for reading through my rambling wall of text.

Response to Voting System Overhaul Proposal 2015-01-16 13:30:26


Really nice, the old system wasn`t really good. Because you just got points for movies and games. We know, that you made this like that, because of the flash thingy. But since NG grew older, it is very supportive to also treat the art and audio portal like the rest of NG. I would really appreciate the new voting-system.

Response to Voting System Overhaul Proposal 2015-01-16 16:32:07


I like the idea suggested by Voltus --a tutorial for the new system.
A consistent voting system across all categories would really simplify the current structure; tighten that aspect of the site.
Editing reviews? Sometimes that's good for the review writer when typos are made or wanting to reply to a developer response, but it may be tempting rambling posts and too much distracting cross talk. Maybe there could be a minimum time frame in which to edit a review post.

Response to Voting System Overhaul Proposal 2015-01-16 17:46:45


wow i like this idea you come up with. keep it up.

Response to Voting System Overhaul Proposal 2015-01-16 18:38:56


At 1/15/15 11:00 PM, mattanderson776 wrote: With editing your posts, it could work to have the 15 min edit window if you notice any mistakes in it, but after that not allow a change unless there is a new uploaded version. Makes me think of how the iTunes app store does it, with an all reviews tab and a current version tab. Maybe to combine my thoughts here, you can modify your vote after a period of time since after a while you may not enjoy the same things (like when I found all my Favorited YouTube videos from when I first created my account and instantly felt shame). If editing a review was allowed, it would be nice to have the old review logged and to be able to see what changed, I've seen this on some forums before.

Let's say you make a review, but an hour later, for whatever reason, you realize that you made a mistake. Under normal circumstances, you'd just edit the error. But this "not allowing editing after 15 minutes" thing would make that impossible. Not only that, but what would happen to the delete button? Would you still be able to delete the review? If so, then what's to stop the user from just deleting and re-reviewing to make their "edit"? I say having an edit history like in StackExchange / MediaWiki would be the better idea for anti-abuse measures.

Forcing a review on a no star submission also seems pretty good.

Goodbye 0-bombing; hello 0.5-bombing!

That does sound like a good idea, though. How about forcing a review if the score is less than 2 (a blam)?

There should also be something to stop people from making a ton of alt accounts like what they were saying on page 8.

Well, sockpuppets are also good for developers who want to test their games from the user's P.O.V. For example, that's how I tested medals on the few medal'd games that I posted. I want to be absolutely sure that it works.

How about, after two accounts from the same IP address are made, only allow further sockpuppets to be made once per month.

With the reviews it would be nice to have some incentive to say if it's a helpful review or if it isn't a helpful review (and maybe if it isn't a review at all but a pointless comment?), and also actually show a number on helpful-nonhelpful, and if something gets under a certain number (like -5, could be modified by the user) then it would be hidden from view if someone wants to have those reviews be hidden. The Rooster Teeth forums have this, and it's nice to not have to see things that aren't useful at all. Maybe also have something good that happens to people who post mostly helpful reviews, maybe like raising their daily max xp. Also it would be nice to allow sorting based on the helpfulness of reviews in addition to the date and rating currents.

I like that idea, especially the reputation benefits, and the "sort-by-helpful" idea.

Something that would be nice to somehow implement is doing something based on what the user actually did on the page. Like, give more weight to people who watch 90-100% of something in the movie/audio portal rather than people who do a preemptive rating, or maybe have it based on time they played of a game.

Ah, retention time. The game/movie portal already has something similar: you can't vote if the flash hasn't loaded yet.

That would add a lot of extra variables, though. How about only allowing a review (in the case of the swivel player) when the play marker has reached the end? As for flash movies, and games, you can't track when they are done. And even if you could have the developers use a new API feature to tell the server when the game is complete, or at a point where people can review, most developers would either not use it, or abuse it for censorship of criticism.

That's why I really like the idea of being able to edit your review and score any time you want. You make a bad review, but promise to take another look if there's an update, and with the upcoming system, you'll be able to keep the promise without having to bug a moderator to delete your review so you can re-post. Maybe your opinion changes after you get further into the game.

I'm also a fan of seeing some statistics about things, so it would be cool to be able to see a raw review score vs a score with peoples' voting power factored into it, or seeing an average score vs non-review scores vs scores with reviews. Also seeing an artist rating or something per portal based on their submissions to it. Not sure how welcome something like that would be to be added (especially if the voting isn't flawless), but it would be cool to view nonetheless. There could also be some kind of award given using those stats.

I can see how this could be added. For example, YouTube has an analytics tab, that shows detailed statistics about retention time, demographics, locations of view sources, etc. So maybe there could be a "statistics" tab or link underneath the vote score tally, that shows all of said information.


Hi


At 1/16/15 06:38 PM, B1KMusic wrote: Let's say you make a review, but an hour later, for whatever reason, you realize that you made a mistake. Under normal circumstances, you'd just edit the error. But this "not allowing editing after 15 minutes" thing would make that impossible. Not only that, but what would happen to the delete button? Would you still be able to delete the review? If so, then what's to stop the user from just deleting and re-reviewing to make their "edit"? I say having an edit history like in StackExchange / MediaWiki would be the better idea for anti-abuse measures.

Yeah, that's true, never really thought about them deleting their responses to post a new one, just kinda got wrapped up in what everyone else was talking about while I was typing it all out. That whole edit history thing would be a good idea though. Totally sold on always being able to edit now; and look, it took me over 15 minutes from my post to change my mind.

Goodbye 0-bombing; hello 0.5-bombing!

That does sound like a good idea, though. How about forcing a review if the score is less than 2 (a blam)?

Your idea on that sounds much better to hopefully warrant more helpful reviews. The only problem I would see would be people trying to vote low, then putting in some stupid review because they have to, flooding the review section with comments, but that is a whole different issue really on how people view the reviews section.

Well, sockpuppets are also good for developers who want to test their games from the user's P.O.V. For example, that's how I tested medals on the few medal'd games that I posted. I want to be absolutely sure that it works.

How about, after two accounts from the same IP address are made, only allow further sockpuppets to be made once per month.

I tried to say a ton of alt accounts instead of no alt accounts since I do see a value in having them, but there should be a cutoff at some point. I think we agree on this one.

Ah, retention time. The game/movie portal already has something similar: you can't vote if the flash hasn't loaded yet.

That would add a lot of extra variables, though. How about only allowing a review (in the case of the swivel player) when the play marker has reached the end? As for flash movies, and games, you can't track when they are done. And even if you could have the developers use a new API feature to tell the server when the game is complete, or at a point where people can review, most developers would either not use it, or abuse it for censorship of criticism.

With you saying that, the only thing I could think of for flash would be something in the site logging when the flash loads vs when you start to reply. I'm not sure if it would be worth it to disable the rating/commenting before a certain time, but at least track it for some purpose that I can't really think of. This wasn't really something I thought of as something that would need to be added, just a thought really that I decided to drop in. Most of the things I'm saying probably wouldn't be the best idea to add in, since they'd make the voting system a little too complex as to what it needs to be, but hopefully if people read it they can get a better idea going, like what you did really.

I can see how this could be added. For example, YouTube has an analytics tab, that shows detailed statistics about retention time, demographics, locations of view sources, etc. So maybe there could be a "statistics" tab or link underneath the vote score tally, that shows all of said information.

Depending on how things are set up, it shouldn't really be too difficult to add statistics on things, and it would be a pretty cool thing to view, even if it isn't in the public view and only the author's.