Music Theory.

[MaSterAsSter]

As I go along making my happy little tunes. As I get closer and closer to where I want to be, I'm realizing more and more that there's just many things to know and a LOT to learn. Learning everything might come naturally as you make and others... well others you seem to have to look up. Which is fine with me, I've been doing it occasionally to learn things here and there already.

Now Things like music theory and how to make your own synths, what each and every little thing will do to impact your synth. These are things I'm just not familiar with.
How do you go about finding the right scales for what you want to do? And where do you guys learn your music theory. Did you guys go to college? Or just a really good high school? Specific books you can buy? If there's any way to learn. Can somebody for the love of god point me in the right direction?

[midimachine]

most people i know, including many professional musicians, are either self taught or went to google university to learn music theory. the internet is really great!

[MaSterAsSter]

At 7/6/13 08:58 PM, midimachine wrote: most people i know, including many professional musicians, are either self taught or went to google university to learn music theory. the internet is really great!

I've been to the googleverse many a time before. Unfortunately you either find some really free websites that give you next to nothing. Or some really good ones that expect you to sell them your soul (With some money) before they'll give you access. It's been making me a little sad.

[Sielumetsien]

At 7/6/13 09:18 PM, MaSterAsSter wrote:

At 7/6/13 08:58 PM, midimachine wrote: most people i know, including many professional musicians, are either self taught or went to google university to learn music theory. the internet is really great!

I've been to the googleverse many a time before. Unfortunately you either find some really free websites that give you next to nothing. Or some really good ones that expect you to sell them your soul (With some money) before they'll give you access. It's been making me a little sad.

Perhaps your googling skill is shit. Keep finding.

[Birdinator99]

At 7/6/13 08:58 PM, midimachine wrote: google university

This can solve many of your issues. Also, a few have pointed me to this site in the past -- helpful.

I'm mostly working on high school band knowledge, but I pick up things here and there. Don't be afraid to ask questions; many folks here are just like you, and are willing to share what they've learned.

That's the cool thing about NG music -- it's so relatable.

[k3ph3r]

Scales are actually really helpful for me in writing music. I played Sax in 5th grade, so I learned a bit that year. Though I dropped out of bad the year after. I picked up a guitar 3 years ago. I am not a professional in music theory, by a long shot. But I learned a small way to get some good sounding scales, and maybe this technique can help you?
If you are like me you know subliminally what you want from your music. If you have a midi controller/keyboard/piano. you can use it to really help you out.

This is how I found the scale that would was perfect for my latest track I've been working on.

I used my midi controller keyboard, and just started pressing a few keys in sequence. A combination of whole notes and sharps (or flats if you prefer to use the term) after I found 5 of them that really worked well in my head, (for me it was F, G, G#, A#, C) I went here... http://www.scales-chords.com/scalefinder.php I put in the notes I figured out on my midi controller, and jotted them in the boxes. and just went through the list and paired all the notes I had with the scales listed that had the same. and once I noticed one that had the notes, I would play the rest of that scale and listen to see if it worked. If it didn't I'd move on. In the end I ended up with a specific scale that sounded perfect for my track, (G#/Ab ionian if you were curious)

With this little trick I figured out, the only thing you really need to have is two things. To know the full scale A, A#, B, C, C#, D, D#, E, F, F#, G, G# (repeat) and the location of the notes on a piano roll, and know know with your ears a few notes you need to have in your specific scale.

Hope that helps, if even a little. :)

K3

Also forgive me with the link. HTML links never worked for me for some reason, perhaps I'm trying to put the link in wrong. *shrugs*

[bulangbintang]

I also went to google university, bought a load of music theory books, and you tube, hours and hours of you tube.
However, it would not hurt taking some lessons, teaching yourself incorrrect information from the web can be a pain in the ass.

[Calamaistr]

my mother used to have a radio with classical music on her belly when she was pregnant to calm me or something, i think thats why i have a melodical mind.

But what also helped with music theory is watching stephen malinowski's videos on youtube.

[frootza]

Despite ever so popular belief, you don't need to know music theory to write great music.

Your ear is a much more valuable tool. There is nothing worse than sitting down to write music with someone who doesn't understand how to improvise properly.

Likewise, it can be very frustrating to write music with someone who doesn't understand the basics. Rhythm, keys, chord voicing etc.

Work on developing your musical ear first, then picking up on theoretical concepts will be a breeze.

[Apilot]

if you are ever where you want to be in music then you are doing it wrong

[bulangbintang]

give in LYPUR in you tube, that guy just teaches you everything you need to know.

[retrobox2]

Well in my case I took music lesson in my school since 4th grade and then I join a school specialized in music, but most of the theory I learned it by myself. It's not hard is just a combination of common sense and reading. Now I am going to put the most important topics regarding music composition (orchestral or electronic) and in the way I learned them

First of course scales! That is your base to everything. When you start the major and minor scales are enough to compose good music. Try to memorize at least the basics: C, D, A, G, B flat, E Flat and F (Search for the circle of fifths)

Then Chords, this will be your bible. Learning all the major and minor chords is something more than necessary. Now the way I learned them was by learning the formulas to build major and minor chords and then compose songs using the chords that I learn. If you already know these then try searching for nversions, augmented, diminished, seventh chords, and other types of chords.

Next harmonic progressions (Chords Progressions) I supposed that you already know this topic, but reading about it doesn't hurt. Look for common progressions by genres ex: Blues, Jazz, Rock, Classical, Trance. Also search for cadences (Perfect Authentic Cadences...) if you already feel comfortable with the topic.

These three topics are the very basic of the composition but really essentials on every composer arsenal. If you already know all those topics then you can start looking for music modes (really useful for catchy melodies), transposing modes, Chromaticism, or Altered Cords. Those last ones were not wrote in a order just some good topics to create cool effects. Oh I only mention topics of music theory not anything about music production.

Hope it helps and sorry for my English if you need help feel free to PM.

[PascalPalomino]

I have studied music writing at university and the main classes are harmony, conterpoint and orchestration.
books on harmony: I would suggest "Harmony" by Walter Piston (Also Structural functions of harmony by Schoenberg)
on conterpoint: "Conterpoint" by Walter Piston
on orchestration I use "the study of orchestration" by Samuel Adler
You have to know basic theory like scales and chords when you read these books and might be good to have someone who can correct your answer for the Piston books.
Also quite advance but great to is Persichetti "Twentieth century harmony"

[bulangbintang]

@pascalpalomino : thx for the tips!!! Think i can find them as an online version? if not Amazon will save the day

[PascalPalomino]

I think the Adler can be found online but I don't know about the rest. It's more a reference book though like a dictionnary, 839 pages. Great to have the real book.

[retrobox2]

Oh a really good book that covers from the really basic of theory to almost any topic that you will find while composing is Kostka Payne "Tonal Harmony". I have it and it's really good specially to refresh your memory on some places.

[DarkantheHero]

At 7/6/13 08:38 PM, MaSterAsSter wrote: As I go along making my happy little tunes. As I get closer and closer to where I want to be, I'm realizing more and more that there's just many things to know and a LOT to learn. Learning everything might come naturally as you make and others... well others you seem to have to look up. Which is fine with me, I've been doing it occasionally to learn things here and there already.

Now Things like music theory and how to make your own synths, what each and every little thing will do to impact your synth. These are things I'm just not familiar with.
How do you go about finding the right scales for what you want to do? And where do you guys learn your music theory. Did you guys go to college? Or just a really good high school? Specific books you can buy? If there's any way to learn. Can somebody for the love of god point me in the right direction?

I went to college and have been tutored by tutors. I think unless you want to score films or write classical music, just go and find a tutor. I moved to LA a while ago and I have yet to meet anyone as good as my old tutor back in Michigan.

There are plenty of studios who will take someone from nothing though too. Tons of internships out here.

If college wasn't so expensive I'd say yeah, go for it.

But I think finding a tutor is your best option, there are plenty of people who will give you a college grade education for 20-40 bucks an hour.

[ScottJacob]

Music theory is not required but it definitely helps. I would say just get down some basic knowledge of music notation, scales, and chords. Have a good idea what everything sounds like sooner or later you intuition will set in and you will be able to have a better idea of what your going to play. Though i only just started playing piano seriously for about a year i still have a lot of things to discover too. Good luck to you and your music. Keep working.

[DavidOrr]

Regarding free online resources, http://www.musictheory.net/ and http://teoria.com/ are two of the best resources out there. I refer my beginner theory students to both of those websites for extra help, and they find them very helpful.

[bulangbintang]

At 7/11/13 01:17 AM, DavidOrr wrote: Regarding free online resources, http://www.musictheory.net/ and http://teoria.com/ are two of the best resources out there. I refer my beginner theory students to both of those websites for extra help, and they find them very helpful.

The exercises on those websites really are very helpful in the beginning.

@pascalpalomino,retrobox2 : ok, time to go bookhunting ;)

[DavidOrr]

At 7/15/13 11:09 AM, bulangbintang wrote:

At 7/11/13 01:17 AM, DavidOrr wrote: Regarding free online resources, http://www.musictheory.net/ and http://teoria.com/ are two of the best resources out there. I refer my beginner theory students to both of those websites for extra help, and they find them very helpful.

The exercises on those websites really are very helpful in the beginning.

@pascalpalomino,retrobox2 : ok, time to go bookhunting ;)

The Adler book on orchestration is great, but doesn't really touch on much theory. Personally, I'd start with something that is focused around theory fundamentals (i.e a college theory textbook).

The Kostka and Payne should cover most of what you're after. When I was an undergrad, I worked out of that and found it very digestible, albeit a bit dry. My biggest issue with it is the sparse coverage of late romantic/20th century theory practices, but that's typical of most general theory textbooks.

Good luck in your search :)

[CDMusic]

I worked my way through the ABRSM Music Theory books...

And then I went to uni and studied music. The ABRSM books are brilliant though.

[KhanhCPham]

a very informative post. I just completed my animations but it needs music. Since I worked every single thing on the animation, I figure I might as well make my music....and it was hard to grasp. I tried making something on Fl studio but all i could do is loop a melody. Lets see how this works out within 1-3 month than I might have to find a copyright free song.

[deadlyfishes]

There's just so much actual information from the internet and books can do for you. It's when you apply your theory knowledge in analysis of other works and applying those concepts in your own works. May it be a study piece to heavily focus on certain concepts or anything else that uses those compositional devices, it is important to at least practice what you're learning in someway.

I've been a theory and counterpoint tutor at my college for about 3 years now and most of the students I help struggle with theory concepts right up until they start making the effort to put it into their own work.

The books that DavidOrr recommended are great for learning and reference. I still look through the Adler book from time to time.

[D00FY]

Check out VARIEN's tutorials on youtube for music theory the man is a genius and explains it really well. Highly Highly recommend.

He made the Orchestral version of one of SKRILLEX's songs that got upload on his youtube so he's not a small time either.

[D00FY]

At 8/1/13 03:40 PM, Elitistinen wrote:

At 8/1/13 10:48 AM, D00FY wrote: He made the Orchestral version of one of SKRILLEX's songs that got upload on his youtube so he's not a small time either.

Yeah he made orchestra dubstep. Well, his tutor is not so well informed and difficult to follow. I rather follow the tutsplus.com

not heard of that site before, will check it out. Thanks for sharing maynne