At 2/8/13 01:40 AM, leanlifter1 wrote:
Attacks with many questions that went unanswered.
The questions that I presume you speak of were debunked in the 9/11 Commission Report. Many were based on misunderstandings of engineering principles and perceived "evidence" that didn't really exist.
Says the propaganda Media machine that is owned by the same money and interests as is Wall Street and Washington. Still your country never tried anyone for the accused crimes that took place on 9/11.
Yeah, we did. And not just us. Zacarias Moussaoui is serving a life sentence for his role in the 9/11 attacks (sentenced in the US). Mounir el-Motassadeq is serving 15 years in a German prison. Abu Dahdah is serving 12 years in a Spanish prison, along with 17 other al-Qaeda members in connection with the 9/11 attacks. Khalid Sheikh Mohammed is currently being detained at Guantanamo after admitting his involvement with the 9/11 attacks.
Your country broke it's own rules and rewrote the book under the guise of a false pretense which is how War works and this is regardless of weather or not "Taliban" or alquada did or did not commit said crimes on that fateful day 9/11 as the States did not bring anything to the court system and NOTHING was investigated pertaining to the events that transpired that day 9/11.
9/11 Commission Report? We spent over a year investigating not only the attacks and attackers, but the weaknesses in US security which they exploited to be able to carry out the attacks. The rest of the above statement is just gibberish and doesn't make any real points.
They would not even make it into the country LOL
You do realize there are American citizens and American interests in places other than the US, right?
I guess you are unaware that America is now a Police State thanks to 9/11.
Not really. I still have my Fourth and Fifth Amendment rights (due process, no unreasonable search and seizure) and the NDAA is still being pushed through judicial review, with a strong possibility that it could be struck down again in the Second Circuit Court of Appeals.
War has historically been used by the power elite to impose more laws, litigation, taxation and subjugation on it's people. I don't see how this war is any different just because the "Media" told the people that the enemy flavor of the decade would be Arabs. The Media told the people but the Courts did not prove it to them because there is no real hard evidence against the alleged convicts being the Taliban, Alquada in the case of 9/11.
The Taliban were never accused of having perpetrated 9/11, at least not once the evidence starting coming out. What we did accuse them of was harboring al-Qaeda and giving substantial support to their terrorist operations. State sponsors of terrorism cannot be tolerated. And yes, courts all over the world have heard evidence relating to the 9/11 attacks.
The whole debate about whether war is necessary or not is a different issue for a different thread, but I am of the belief that you can never completely take the option off the table - but it should be the very last option on the table and only used if all other possible solutions have been explored with no success.
Knowingly killing innocents is what evil people do and it needs to be stopped before it becomes accepted and snow balls.
First off, considering public opinion is generally against the use of drone strikes in civilian settings (US or otherwise), I don't think these drone attacks will be generally palatable for much longer. I think we've had about enough, and a candidate who actually offers a more diplomatic foreign policy in re: war on terror is going to have a strong shot at the white house in 2016.
Secondly, good and evil are concepts that don't exist outside of theoretical discussions. The real world is in thousands of shades of grey. This is why FDR can still be regarded as one of the greatest presidents in our history even though he oversaw the development of the atom bomb. His policies in war research ended up creating a weapon that killed hundreds of thousands of japanese civilians.
As far as drones killing US Citizens, we should be informed about when it happens and why. But to say that the US government never has a right to kill a citizen is a statement ignorant of what the law allows.
This is where I agree with religion in that Humans are not the ones to call the shot on whom lives and whom dies and lets just leave it at that for simplicities sake.
Tell that to the religious fanatics who hijacked airlines and smashed them into buildings on 9/11, killing three thousand people needlessly. Point is, they don't follow their own beliefs anyway. It's time to come out of this fantasy land you've built for yourself and join us in the sunshine. There's porn here, I promise, it's great.
So, ultimately, I do think it should be permissible for the government to target US citizens.
The line must be drawn. If you give the Government absolute power you will never get it back and somehow I think it is unfortunately to late. What if Americans are next on the shit list ? How would you like you home blown up and your family murder by the police ? think of how those poor people in the Middle east feel cause they are just the same as you and I.
As I've previously stated, the requisite power needed to do this has already been given to the government by the people who argued the state should have the power to execute a person if their crimes are heinous enough that society can't find justice another way. At this point, we are just arguing over the how, which is a pretty semantic game to play. With that said, previous court history has shown that the how does matter (this is why most states use lethal injection now, as opposed to gas chambers or electric chairs). The rest of your argument is just emotional drivel aimed at trying to convince us to be on the side of an argument that we are not even having in this thread.
Personally, I would like to see a judicial review of US citizens placed on these kill lists. I think that would probably be the best way to figure out who is and is not a military enemy of the state.
That's an extremely Fascistic sentiment of exalting the nation over the individual. America is the people not the Government or Military you are losing what it means to be a true American.
Dumbass. Using your terminology, the only thing I'm exalting is the social consciousness expressed over the last 250 years of American law-making. There are some people - McVeigh, bin Laden, this Dorner guy all come to mind - who we all want to see put down because the crimes they have committed against the rest of us using the established methods of decision making that have existed since long before we were born. These channels of government operate on levels that the federal government has little impact on (this is why federalism is a good thing). Even at the federal level, you have a Supreme Court that is relatively insulated from the politics and power games in Washington. They can stand for the rights of individuals and minorities against the power of government when it is right to do so.
Moreover, I refer you to my post where I detailed the strict scrutiny requirement and how it's applied. Go read and learn yourself something.