At 1/9/13 03:40 AM, aviewaskewed wrote:
This is a ridiculous reduction to oppressive regimes that America and the current administration (and even the prior one bad as they were) are no where near. You deflate your own argument when you start bringing such outrageous examples into the argument.
There is nothing that separates the US government from such regimes. They made of people who are just as corruptible, and potentially just as evil. To pretend that the US government wouldn't stoop to such levels is ignorant and foolish.
There's no reason to pretend like US politicians are somehow different than others in history....especially considering it's actions in the past 15-20 years (give or take)
I don't dispute that she said it, I dispute the idea that she can do it with this particular law because I simply do not see the mechanisms whereby that happens.
Depends. When people get afraid, they allow politicians to do fucked up shit. Case in point, Patriot Act and the Iraq War....or the first weapons ban in response to Columbine....hell, even post-WW1 Germany is a good example. When tragedy strikes, that's a perfect opportuinity for the government to take advantage of people's fears. Hell, Obama said recently after the Sandy Hook shooting "One of the worst tragedies in our memory. The country deserves for folks to be willing to compromise on behalf of the greater good"
When bad shit happens, people are more willing and susceptible to letting tyranny slide...be it invading a nation on a false premise, or committing genocide of an entire religion.
Uh no. Not always. Weapons can in fact be the SOURCE of danger (I.E. people with weapons who have terrible intent). Safe neighborhoods like the small town I live in, with low to no criminal element are also a deterent.
Ever notice how cops carry guns? Why do you think that is?
Police, laws, things like that keep us safe from those things. Yes, said police are usually armed, but guess what? They have to be TRAINED and LICENSED to carry and use those armaments. They also go through psych evals. Their not simply handed to them with a pat on the shoulder and a "best of luck to ya!"
You have to be trained and licensed and undergo evaluation/investigation (or a combination of the three depending on the type of gun), to legally own a gun too.
As for police and laws....well murder is illegal, yes? Didn't stop a lunatic from stealing a gun, and killing 20 or so elementary school students, did it? How about we make meth illegal too! That'll keep it off the streets, right?
Because not all gun owners/possesors own/possess guns for protection and defense.
EVERY SINGLE gun owner I've met, and that's in probably the thousands, buy them for defense, collecting purposes, or sport. In fact, I've only ever met TWO people who have used a gun on a person...one was a cop, and one was being robbed at an ATM.
Because that isn't the mentality and I think if your honest instead of having a knee jerk reaction you'd get that. This was a case of "oh a shooting happened because a mentally ill person got their hands on a firearm! Guess we better look into trying to make it more difficult for the wrong kind of folks to get those weapons". Which I think is a good thought, but a companion bill/study into getting the mentally ill BETTER and more COMPREHENSIVE treatment for their disorders would be equally, if not more helpful. That is sadly getting buried in the debate that's emerged over the gun aspects, which is perhaps what the politicians (many of whom are shutting down government run mental health facilities for budgetary reasons) want us to do.
Wrong people will ALWAYS find a way to get a weapon. Always. A crazy person will kill someone with whatever they can find. Hell, one of the worst mass murders in history used boxcutters and airplanes as the weapon.
There will always be crazy people, and they will always use whatever they can to hurt people. They could jump in a car and start running people over, go on a shooting spree, throw them in gas chambers, or hijack airplanes. You wanna ban airplanes because they get hijacked or bombed? Wanna ban cars? They kill a lot of people.
The only way to prevent a crazy person from hurting you, is having an effective means of stopping them. Taking away weapons will not work. The only way to stop a shooter effectively, is to use a weapon. That's why cops carry guns.
Again, I think it falls under the exact example I gave you. A gun is a deadly weapon. That is it's function, that's what it was invented to do. It was invented to kill. A car is only a POTENTIAL deadly weapon, it's primary purpose is a means of convenience from point A to point B, but if it is improperly operated it can have lethal consequences for the driver and anyone who comes into contact with him. We license drivers, and register vehicles. Why then is it a bad idea to license gun owners and register their firearms?
Anything can be a weapon. I could go on a killing spree in my car right now if I wanted to. But I don't. As stated before 9/11 was one of the biggest mass murders in US history. Wanna ban airplanes?
A gun only becomes lethal if improperly operated as well. Case in point, I've met many gun owners who have never even aimed a gun at a person. A friend of mine owns an AK47. You tihnk he bought it with the intent of shooting someone with it? And destroying his house in the process? No. Most guns, like the ones the government plans to ban, such as the AR-15, are bought solely for collecting purposes and sport shooting. Not even home defense, as you'd probably go deaf and blow your house to hell.
As for gun owners, they are licensed. If you aren't, and you use your gun, even to stop a person from robbing you at an ATM, you're going to jail. Also, all guns in retail stores are registered as well.