At 10/24/12 12:46 AM, Dr-Worm wrote:
At 10/23/12 10:39 PM, orangebomb wrote:
That's kind of missing the point, though, isn't it? Sure, it would probably make things less degrading, but it's still a matter of treating women as objects for male entertainment.
Yeah, especially when these women know what they are getting into in the first place. It's not like they are whores just dragged out from the street. As for treating the babes as objects, well that's entirely subjective, considering that most of them love what they do, and can deal with the staring crowds.
So just because everyone else is also doing it, that makes it okay? Every year around Super Bowl time there's another round of cultural debate about sexist trends in beer commercials, too.
Once again, it all goes back to the key demographic, adult males. Of course I would be remiss if I didn't include the female population in this, but from what I've heard, most of them simply don't care about them in the first place, but are still willing to buy the product anyways.
Besides, I see a major difference between video games and beer that put them in very different positions in this situation. Gaming is in the process of trying to legitimize itself as a full-fledged medium of artistic expression. But we can't seriously be making a claim for maturity and validation when we're still acting like a bunch of middle school boys.
I'm fairly certain that gaming is considered a universal medium for expression and entertainment, with the exception of hardcore soccermoms and nutjobs, but who cares about them. Once again, it's all subjective, just because you think that booth babes are bad, doesn't mean I do.
I'm pretty sure you won't find booth babes at film festivals, art shows, and book readings. We can't have it both ways. We can either admit that this hobby we've spent so much time and energy on is a silly repetitive children's toy, or we can actually try to do things better and take the medium in new directions, instead of the creative stagnation we have now where games don't have any ambitions other than to sate teenage boys' (of all ages) basest desires for violence and boobs.
Yeah, because nothing says children's toy like models posing for whatever. As for taking it into new directions and whatever, how exactly do you make something more creative, when the concept as is already works? Games are supposed to be for entertainment first and foremost, and it's not like all games out there simply shill out boobs and blood in their games for the sake of selling them.
Booth babes only serve to perpetuate this; they characterize women as an "other" in the gaming community, as never really playing games but only being part of the community for the sake of men's entertainment and titillation. Try to go beyond that, and the territorial males switch to ape mode. You can see examples of it all over the place.
Ok, just because there are some men who go to the convention for the sake of staring at the booth babes, doesn't mean you automatically should paint a broad stroke and say that all of them go there because of that. There is an option of ignoring them altogether and simply focus on the games themselves, tough as that might sound.
Again, it's a pretty slim majority, even more so once you factor in gay dudes and mature adults who enjoy boobs without obsessing over them to the point where they fail to recognize the woman attached to the boobs as a human being.
I'm fairly sure that they know that set of boobs they see are a human being, because most of us are mature enough to know that. I never thought I would say this, but you don't give people enough faith for using their brains in their head, and not the one down below, not that it would be very much, but still. Plus, as I said, there is an option of ignoring them altogether, it's not like anyone is forcing them to see them, much like the babes are not being forced to do this.
Just because something is profitable doesn't make it right. Telling 42% of your paying customers that their perspectives don't matter and they will never truly belong in your community simply isn't right.
Tell that to Spike TV, or beer companies who employ models to go around half-naked for the sake of advertising and ratings. Right or wrong, the point I'm trying to make is that they are attracting the majority audience, who is male, and even they know that those set of boobs are a person.
And really in the long run it's not even a good business decision. They're losing the interest of adult women with disposable income to cater to adolescent boys who rely on their parents or minimum wage part-time jobs. But it's what they know and they're afraid of trying anything new.
Then what about the booth babes then? I'm sure that they are being paid extra to attend conventions and dress like that, and even have fun with it, why take that away to appeal to some group who might not have any inkling to go to a gaming convention in the first place? I don't know about you, but that's trying to have it both ways.
Plus, an industry needs constant innovation to grow, and right now the industry is stagnating because of its continuing refusal to accept new voices.
Gaming is a multi-billion dollar industry that is growing, you can't say that it's stagnating.
I'm sorry but that's fucking selfish and childish. It's not about you, and it's not about the boys (it would hardly be accurate to call most of them men) who are already having all their whims catered to by the industry. Step outside yourself for five goddamn seconds and try to see things from the perspective of one of the people the industry doesn't care about.
Really? Seriously, from what I said, you must think I'm some perverted redneck who thinks games are nothing more than boobs, and to see real tits and ass for a game is icing on the cake then, I'm sorry if I happen to have a viewpoint that is with the majority of people. Come on, booth babes are harming no one, you can ignore them if you want, and simply put, you're simply generalizing the folks who go to a gaming convention just because it has tits and ass. In my book, that's no different than what you say about girl gamers not being represented, you're trying to have it both ways.
Even with that, I don't treat women as objects, but I happen to like booth babes, what of it?
You're telling women that if they're concerned about how they're being represented by the industry, then that opinion doesn't matter and they should just "grow a set of balls"; you might as well just slap a "No Girls Allowed" sign outside the convention center.
Once again, booth babes are the minority of gamers in general and are optional to stare at, and there is no reason why they should be dismissed because it happens to disillusion or even offend a small group of people, if you don't want to see them, then don't go, simple as that.