Hmm, I don't like the sound of the VC. It just doesn't sound like a very good idea, but then again, I don't know a whole lot about economics (you also seemed to conveniently leave out any true arguments against VC in your OP! ) . I'd see keep going where you're going now.

At 4/13/12 05:51 PM, TomFulp wrote:

At 4/13/12 05:44 PM, Hyrus wrote: The tone of your post is enthusiastic, but for really wonky reasons.

I was being sarcastic because I'm sick of competing with sites that flush unlimited money down the toilet with a big smile while I stress over expenses and ongoing development. I've turned down advances from VC firms for the past decade but because people suggest it and because there IS the chance it could be a good thing, I decided to finally write a post about it.

Maaaaaaannnnnnnn it's such a tough call, especially since obviously none of us know what's up behind the scenes with Newgrounds like you do. Like do you feel that NG is suffering more than it should, or is there a goa-hump that you just can't seem to roll it over, I dunno. I had a big long thing typed up but pffffff realistically it wouldn't have mattered so I'll just say this:
As someone who's been coming to NG on and off since Pico's School was current, I don't think I've ever been like "jeez it's just too bad this site isn't good enough". Before I began submitting, I had always come for the content and not the site features themselves. And yeah the year or two leading up to the redesign, there were some site mechanics that seemed clunky and out of date (though now with the redesign I think that's been really well-addressed), but it was never something where I was like FUCK THIS SHIT I'M OFF TO YOUTUBE WOOOOOO because to me it was still all about the content.
I just love the fact that anyone can submit, and some of my favorite things I've seen here are like little beginner animations that make a cheap joke or something. Yeah I guess you could see that on YouTube too but NG is like the only place on the internet where on any given day you might roll up and see someone's overly artsy attempt at an emotional/dramatic statement in a Flash, side-by-side on the front page with a flash where a cat shits into a guy's mouth while he jacks off. I hope we never lose that here, shit just be crazy

Don't be a sell out, pass on the VC.

One of the reasons I love this site so much is that it's run by just a handful of guys. I know that's less beneficial when it comes to getting everything running perfectly 24/7 and keeping the site up to date, but that smallness allows users to sort of get to know you guys through this site. I like that if any changes are made I know that it's something you guys really want for the site. You guys work hard to make changes and fix things on the site for the sake of making it a more enjoyable and cool place to visit and submit content . The idea of there being some big money investor that doesn't have any involvement in the community pressuring for changes based on making more money rather than making the site a better place.

i guess the argument could be made that the changes based on making more money could lead to the site being better, but like MC said, I don't think you really need the pressure of making money back to make the site better.

TLDR: You guys are champs, money's for chumps.

I say to Keep being NG no matter what the cost.

1) Keep being NG no matter what the cost. Yeah you are a big disappointment but we believe in you.

2) Take VC money. Spend the next five years being AMAZING, sponsor every game developer and every artist and rule the entire internet. IT MIGHT WORK, NG might become so successful the investors will get rich and back off, and it will be such a success it can just keep being a success forever.

Would I still get my money through the advertisements on my flash games? What would the differences be between current newgrounds and Newgrounds+VC? Send me the answer through a PM and I will reply back to this post with an actual answer. Thank you :D

It's a bit sad to say but I'll be honest: to me, Newgrounds currently feels like a dog that's getting old. At least forum activity has gone down quantifiably, we didn't beat the amount of users online from the previous redesign, everyone uploads their videos to Youtube now (which didn't usually happen before due to slower speeds and youtube's shitty quality back then). The entire foundation of the site (Flash) really took a hit when the iPad happened and seems to be getting slowly phased out. But I love this place and it's the only place on the internet that feels like home (Facebook is a distant, distant second).

If it is at all possible to set some reasonable limits to what investors get to decide, I'm thinking... money.

keep going solo!

Can I get unlimited NG GOLD PLAYBUX when they become the necessary currency to view content?

At 4/13/12 05:55 PM, MindChamber wrote:
Oh and Get a manager in there,

you're a great guy Tom, but yah.. let's face it already.

He doesn't need to bring in a manager. He just needs to unleash Wade on the programmers to keep them in line.

That's all the fire under their ass they'll need.

I know Id gladly pay a year subscription if it mean more programmers at NG getting it to work properly and keep it at the edge of technology, I'm sure others would as well.

i don't have the money I would move on to Kongregate, ArmerGames, anything else really if I had to pay for newgrounds.

I've been visiting NG for the best part of ten years on and off, though my forum account won't show it, I until recently have been one of the unregistered voters of content.

I love this site, it more often than not has some good nuggets of content on the front page that I carry on coming back for and when it's no longer on the front page I'll search it out and continue to enjoy it. I've had two experiences of being a customer/user of a company that have sold large amounts of equity to investors. It is like cooking a frog in boiling water, slow incremental changes until you are left with the memory of what you started with and wanted and are left with a dried out husk that is desperately trying to hang on to its veteran community and failing miserably.

Stay true to the ideals of NG, don't sell out.

At 4/13/12 06:19 PM, SketchistGames wrote: i don't have the money I would move on to Kongregate, ArmerGames, anything else really if I had to pay for newgrounds.

Even if the choice to pay was optional, and that you still had the same access to the content as before?

Do what you want,ng will always have a place in my heart

KEEP NEWGROUNDS THE SAME! I don't want to lose our NG rights! If I have to pay for anything I am leaving to Kongregate or Armor Games or NotDoppler SOMEWHERE ELSE IF I have to pay for ANYTHING!

At 4/13/12 06:22 PM, SketchistGames wrote: KEEP NEWGROUNDS THE SAME! I don't want to lose our NG rights! If I have to pay for anything I am leaving to Kongregate or Armor Games or NotDoppler SOMEWHERE ELSE IF I have to pay for ANYTHING!

Good luck in life, kiddo.

Don't take the money.

To anyone who speaks never gain success if you never take failure:

Venture capital is not a normal business game. It is a 1/10 devil game. Once you gain and you gain tremendously amount of resources. If you lose then you would lose everything.

VC has critical failure that none of you would want to take; if any of you ever has done business before.

I strongly encourage Mr. Fulp to do some personal research without depending on this inaccurate opinions on here and consult this matter with your in-business friends, employees and staff. VC is a serious matter.

At 4/13/12 06:21 PM, TurkeyOnAStick wrote:

At 4/13/12 06:19 PM, SketchistGames wrote: i don't have the money I would move on to Kongregate, ArmerGames, anything else really if I had to pay for newgrounds.

Even if the choice to pay was optional, and that you still had the same access to the content as before?

Yes THEN I would stay but if I HAVE to pay for crap I will leave to Kongregate, *ArmorGames, NotDoppler, somewhere else...

I HAVE NO IDEA!

did you say money?

VC is like turning your website into a money-fueled bonfire to attract more money to burn. Eventually there is only ash. Don't burn your creation.
Stay independent, persevere. Maybe "get a manager in there" and continue to slowly make the website better.

Tom, you have the overall decision here, but truth be told, I think Newgrounds is better without taking the money. By taking money, there WILL be strings attached and the new goal of Newgrounds will be to make its INVESTORS profitable.

I don't know the financial situation of the website except I know you've mentioned that the budget is pathetic compared to bigger companies. Yet, Newgrounds is one of the only big websites I know that actually care about its users rather than having to make its investors rich.

Apparently there is something happening with NG, otherwise Tom wouldn't even consider this. I can understand that NG is not at the peak of its success anymore, I feel like that was around 6-10 years ago (I could be wrong though), everyone visited that site back then.

It's just that with sites like Youtube things have gotten much easier. Honestly I don't even know if Flash has such a great future. Sure you can make animations, but you can also make those differently and publish them on YT. And if you can make games, why not sell them in the App Store or something...

I personally don't really know how you could make NG grow more and it saddens me because NG always had more soul than let's say YT that is run by faceless people that know nothing about their community.

Perhaps you could offer additional features, like videos, photos, blogs, even though it is questionable if people would really want to visit NG for those reasons.

Wait would it be possible for newgrounders to donate money to help further improve the site? I have seen some smaller websites set up a progress bar to raise money over a certain amount of time.

As long as the extra money doesn't adversely affect the content offered on Newgrounds (for example, limit authors' ability to be creative or obscene or creepy, etc) I think Newgrounds would benefit greatly from such a stimulus package as the one you describe.

I haven't really given a decent opinion yet. I wouldn't mind the Steam-powered program. Having actual payment in games and movies is a payment model that's fresh, as opposed to just more ads. VC is risky, doing nothing is suicide. You might also want to try getting some more contacts andgetting the name out some more. Sites like Destructoid are doing very well, and they might share the audience you're looking for.

Just give us the ability to buy hats to wear in Pico's School or new playable characters in Newgrounds Rumble and Newgrounds could florish once again.

At 4/13/12 04:21 PM, MindChamber wrote: No VC.. concentrate on microtransations, to funnel back into turning NG into a platform. Keep NG lean and small, and work hard to make NG the ultimate publisher for developers and artists alike. Steam-squared.

I think you're on the right track here, but NG obv. needs to expand beyond flash...

The mobile platform have really lifted off, and I'm not sure if it's too late to catch that train or not... However, microtransactions seem to be a really good money-maker, but again you'll need to have somethings more than just flash for this to hit.

Newgrounds is business, but it's one of the few busniesses of this size that still have a "soul" and haven't been transformed in to something else...
If it's worth it or not is up to you, Tom, but if NG's history as a nice place with a "fuck you" attitude based on common sense is to b e considered at all, I think that Newgrounds as it is today in fact will sieze to be "underground" quite fast. Better artists will stay for the money like you said, but for the true underground community, I don't know... It's a tough call, personally I feel like I don't know enough to be able to say yay or nay.

I say no money for one good reason...newgrounds is a site for all the good things and some spam on the internet to pour in. Taking the money would make this the next youtube and we do not want that. So do not take the money tom no matter what anyone says.

At 4/13/12 04:10 PM, Atgod88 wrote: Usually when money is involved, the quality control of any site goes down the tubes in some form, usually changing the entire website to conform to what is most profitable.

Again, just my opinion.

I second this, very much so.
If NG has financial problems, I'm pretty sure there's other ways to solve it.
Please don't sell out NG's soul, Mr. Fulp.
It's almost a general opinion that many sites were much MUCH better before these sorts of
"improvements".

newgrounds is special to me because its always been just out of the reach of the mainstream, and even though so many huge internet fads originated here it never really gets the credit.
i dont believe theres a clear cut answer because on one hand i think this site deserves to be acknowledged and appreciated beyond how it is now. in my experience too many people shrug off NG for trivial reasons. like the hentai ads that were around like 8 years ago. or the portal voting system being unbalanced. because they dont like some forum mod. on the other hand NG is what it is because of the way people already regard it. its one of the few big websites where almost anything goes. that unfiltered philosophy is i think what draws so many unique, excellent artists. and its not unfiltered like 4chan which exists on the principal that your identity is unimportant. newgrounds is all about rewarding good artists which is what the frontpage and all the awards are for.
i want ng to grow and money would help that, but is it worth sacrificing the values that make this site special? it really is a tough question.