At 4/4/12 04:34 PM, 4761 wrote:
Who the fuck said it was all "okay"? Nothing was okay. What she did was not okay. What her father did was not okay. I am saying she should not face repercussions, not because what she did was okay, but because it wouldn't solve anythin
Letting her get off the hook is saying what she did was ok. This isn't something small, this is major that involved fucking somebody over because they didn't care about your grades.
He had already given her that influence when she was a child. Even if he wasn't present, that does not mean she isn't influenced anymore. Her father lured and attracted the girl with drugs. It's just that when he was gone, she didn't give up that habit. Because of him, though.
You can make up Freudian excuses all you like, but that doesn't change that when it comes down to it, she ultimately had the choice whether or not to do it.
So haven't I. But the point I was making is that she did not do what she did because she didn't like him, it was just that he was too much for her.
Again, that comes down to her not liking the way he acts. He didn't abuse her. Was he a deadbeat? Yes, but that doesn't warrant him going to prison for 10 years with no repercussions besides a slap on the wrist.
Yes it was the father's fault, but not because he was accused for rape. It was his fault that he raised her to be that way. Is it that hard to understand? Also, I never said being a dick meant going to prison. I am saying he brought it on himself, and he caused this whole thing to happen. He was guilty, but not guilty enough to go to prison. I think we are having a communication barrier here: you are thinking of the legal definition of "guilty" and I am thinking "guilty" as in being responsible for a wrongdoing (no matter how severe). And what do you mean "free pass to being a scum"? I said that she shouldn't have had repercussions because the crime was already committed and she had regretted the decision, and that she was a child. I am saying that both parties here are to blame, but no one should be punished. There is no free pass. I never said the dad deserved to go to prison...I believe he was simply responsible for his child's actions.
Yes it is that hard to understand, because nowhere, ever, has been being a bad parent equated to your child lying and getting somebody jailed for rape. He did not bring it onto himself. Given how fickle causality can be, I guess you can blame it on him, but the decision ultimately rests on the daughter. Look at the case of the step father who was killed by his step son and a friend forced into it. Was it the step fathers fault, from a non 100% deterministic outlook? No, it lies on the person committing the act. She wasn't backed into a corner and he wasn't abusive. He just sucked at parenting. When you're saying that the person who is at fault is the dad, that is saying he deserved it. When you are saying the person who caused it should not get in trouble, you are saying he deserved it.
You're right, it wouldn't change anything. That's why people send those people to jail because they are STILL DANGEROUS.
But what if I did it because my mom didn't care I was doing bad in school? Would that be ok then?
Woah woah woah! Life back on track? Are you kidding me? So you are saying that his life is irreversibly changed for the worse and his life is just ruined and now he still has the glorious option to get his life back on track? Do you know what "ruined beyond belief" means? It means that no matter what he does, he can't get his life back on track. ".
Irreversibly changed does not mean that his entire future is bleak. Anytime you go to jail, your life is irreversibly damaged. That does not mean it cannot be mitigated.
Or maybe the dad should give HER compensation because it was clearly him who fucked up her life first to make her fuck up his life? And no, I don't know how much I have to repeat it but, SHE DID NOT MAKE HER LIFE THAT WAY. It was her fucking father; I can guarantee you: if her father did not take any drugs (and yes, he did more than just alcohol, read the goddamn article) she would not be her right now.
BAWW I GOT BAD GRADES AND HE DIDN'T CARE HE SHOULD BE THROWN IN JAIL AS A RAPIST AND THEN BE FORCED TO GIVE ME COMPENSATION BECAUSE IM AN EMOTIONAL WRECK.
Here's the thing: Every single person has the right and duty of self determination. She was a teenage, she can hone up to her actions.
I'm just going to stop quoting you from here on out. I have already ran out of space and I don't feel like including your quotes anymore so let me summarize the best I can:
You mentioned that he partied and he deserves to be jailed? What? Do you realize that he partied frequently. Which is more than just partying a little? Not only that, but he smoked pot a lot? And alcohol anyone? How about the combination of all the three made him NEGLECT the child? It's not the partying individually that made it worse, it's the fact that his partying made neglect. That's the whole topic of it. Neglect. Instead of treating her better, he goes off in an assholish way and parties with/without drugs, just ignoring the daughter.
Holy calamity, scream insanity, he smoked pot and drank. No, he didn't abuse her. No, he didn't cause her harm. But he was kind of a dick who didn't care. I mean yeah, she was still taken care of, and yeah, she still had a hgome, but we have an Escobar here because he smoked spot. Yeah, he was emotionally distant. Better blame him for every fucked up action the daughter does, and it's totally his fault for getting sent to jail for rape even though no such shenanigans occured.
Also, you keep on saying time after time "his life is ruined, blah blah blah". "There's nothing left of it" even though you said yourself that his life still has the opportunity to be back on track if given compensations, so I am just going to regard this point as complete idiocy.
He had his entire life yanked away from him. He was put into prison. He is forever changed. She owes him a whole lot. He lost his freedom for over a decade. And you're honestly saying that because he can still reduce the damage that has been done, it's too bad for him?
"Oh look, he has nothing now! Gone everything! Nada! Oh, except if you give him compensations..."
Yeah, that's kinda how compensations work.
Not so "ruined forever" now anymore right?
Not as ruined, but still ruined.
You know what ruined forever is? Ruined forever is when you CAN'T get a job. Where you CAN'T get a decent home or place to live. Where you CAN'T get even a little money. It's where you lost everything, even potential things like compensations. Hell, it's where you do not receive any sort of compensation. Your life is not ruined forever if you still can make or have changes that can alter your life for the better. Sure, you won't be able to return to your regular normality, but sometimes a downgrade is good enough.
So basically you can only be ruined if you can't do the aforementioned things. Which is what totally doesn't happen in prison.
She should not be given consequences even if the father's life was irreversible and he was falsely accused for a whopping 9 years. The girl was a child, her decision was solely because of her father, and therefore she could not have been held responsible for her actions. If she couldn't be held reponsible, she couldn't have been held responsible ever, no matter how old she is or how long it takes for her to confess.
No. That's not how punishments work. I can easily kill somebody in a blind rage and have a come to God sort of event. Would that mean I shouldn't get in any sort of trouble whatsoever? She took away 10 years out of his life. She went through her teenage and adult years with this on her. She fucked him over. She knew the entire time what she did was wrong. She deserves to be punished. She was 11, not 6. She knew damn well what would happen.