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Otto
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Response to The Walking Dead 2013-04-01 19:55:25 Reply

At 4/1/13 07:42 PM, Ceratisa wrote: No I got all that, did you miss the part where he was a little pussy up until he got a guy killed? I've never cared for Carl as a character.

Kid in full retreat offering to hand over his happen =/= example you gave.
Carl's evolution can easily be summed up with a little boy trying to prove himself useful despite the fact he seldom is.
Real evolution I've seen is Daryl

Oh I see so because you dislike his character then that means it's whatever you think it is

okay

And yes that example works perfectly, because any should-I-shouldn't-I conflict is an example of Carl exercising his new ideology of shoot-just-to-be-safe.


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stafffighter
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Response to The Walking Dead 2013-04-01 20:37:54 Reply

At 4/1/13 06:28 PM, Ceratisa wrote:
I think lots woulda done what carl did just out of fear
Openly stated intent about handing over his happen. He didn't want to look aggressive at all. (He looked terrified to me) I don't know anyone who comes across two people with guns on you while you have absolutely no way to draw on them and thinks " I can take um"

If sarcasm wooosh for me though.

Yes he looked paniced but paniced people can act on impulse. This is where I get my argument. He was inching closer to them. his gun was still in his hand. He could have pointed it off to the side and then let it down. But he still had it in his control and roughly pointed at them, and with a shotgun roughly is all you need.


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Response to The Walking Dead 2013-04-01 20:44:30 Reply

I have a loaded weapon in my hand, pointed in the general direction of somebody, I am being told to drop it, and I start moving closer and closer. Unfortunate circumstance but completely justified.


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Response to The Walking Dead 2013-04-01 21:02:30 Reply

Carl is an asshole, they could've 'kept' that kid and just kind off get some info on the gov from him.

some feels

The Walking Dead


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Response to The Walking Dead 2013-04-01 21:03:33 Reply

This is the phrase I'm getting caught on. He was HANDING OVER his gun. You do not hand over a weapon. You put it on the ground from a safe distance and then walk away. I get that he wasn't in a right state of mind but that just makes the argument to put him down stronger. Someone's not in the right frame of mind maybe the odds against an old man and a 12 year old start looking better. Maybe if you can just close the distance maybe get an arm around the kid *head explode*
It was a clean shoot.


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Otto
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Response to The Walking Dead 2013-04-01 21:04:22 Reply

At 4/1/13 09:02 PM, CrazyRock wrote: Carl is an asshole, they could've 'kept' that kid and just kind off get some info on the gov from him.

some feels

Yes they should've used the baby as a weight to hold him down, then young Carl, the one legged old man and young girl could've threatened him with their eyes and strong arms to not move or be even a slight danger either now or later


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Response to The Walking Dead 2013-04-01 21:17:25 Reply

At 4/1/13 09:04 PM, Otto wrote:
At 4/1/13 09:02 PM, CrazyRock wrote: Carl is an asshole, they could've 'kept' that kid and just kind off get some info on the gov from him.

some feels
Yes they should've used the baby as a weight to hold him down, then young Carl, the one legged old man and young girl could've threatened him with their eyes and strong arms to not move or be even a slight danger either now or later

He was handing over his gun, and judging by his age he isn't skilled enough to quickly turn it and kill them all. Both Carl and Hershel had guns, at least one of them would survive (95% everyone who was there)

more feels

The Walking Dead


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Otto
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Response to The Walking Dead 2013-04-01 21:22:52 Reply

At 4/1/13 09:17 PM, CrazyRock wrote: He was handing over his gun, and judging by his age he isn't skilled enough to quickly turn it and kill them all. Both Carl and Hershel had guns, at least one of them would survive (95% everyone who was there)

more feels

Congratulations on pointing out the risk involved, which is exactly what Carl wanted to avoid: any risk, because he's fucking sick of risk and why shouldn't he be.


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Response to The Walking Dead 2013-04-01 21:26:53 Reply

Don't get me wrong. I'm saying the kill was clean but that does not make Carl sane. Killing a person is not and should not be easy. The way he talked to Rick after, that was emerging badness. That's how bad starts, when the harsh side of doing the right thing gets easier.


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Otto
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Response to The Walking Dead 2013-04-01 21:30:09 Reply

At 4/1/13 09:26 PM, stafffighter wrote: Don't get me wrong. I'm saying the kill was clean but that does not make Carl sane. Killing a person is not and should not be easy. The way he talked to Rick after, that was emerging badness. That's how bad starts, when the harsh side of doing the right thing gets easier.

Exactly. We're in for a very predictable character arc for Carl where he struggles with humanitarian issues but also probably wanking a lot blah blah


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Response to The Walking Dead 2013-04-01 22:04:22 Reply

At 4/1/13 07:55 PM, Otto wrote:
At 4/1/13 07:42 PM, Ceratisa wrote: No I got all that, did you miss the part where he was a little pussy up until he got a guy killed? I've never cared for Carl as a character.

Kid in full retreat offering to hand over his happen =/= example you gave.
Carl's evolution can easily be summed up with a little boy trying to prove himself useful despite the fact he seldom is.
Real evolution I've seen is Daryl
Oh I see so because you dislike his character then that means it's whatever you think it is

okay

And yes that example works perfectly, because any should-I-shouldn't-I conflict is an example of Carl exercising his new ideology of shoot-just-to-be-safe.

Carl's new little shit head lies about the situation? Sorry I trust the adult who was watching. I don't judge how a character acts on if I like them or not. I just don't hide my feelings about the characters.

At 4/1/13 08:44 PM, RacistBassist wrote: I have a loaded weapon in my hand, pointed in the general direction of somebody, I am being told to drop it, and I start moving closer and closer. Unfortunate circumstance but completely justified.

And the weapon is getting lower and further away from facing you, watch it again IT was initially pointed in one handed fashion in his general direction?

Did you or did you not notice his finger was very clearly UP off the trigger?

Every inch closer he got the weapon was lower to the ground and actually pointed further away.

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Response to The Walking Dead 2013-04-01 22:27:32 Reply

It's like you guys enjoy arguing or something.

Oh, right.

Otto
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Response to The Walking Dead 2013-04-01 22:28:46 Reply

At 4/1/13 10:27 PM, Ryan wrote: It's like you guys enjoy arguing or something.

Oh, right.

I just find it remarkable he has so much to say about character when he is clearly unable to take a moment to imagine how it is to be them.


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Response to The Walking Dead 2013-04-01 22:30:11 Reply

Apparently that black guy who's with the Governor is named Shupert.

Shupert, really?

Who the hell is named Shupert.

Especially a guy who looks like this.

The Walking Dead

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Response to The Walking Dead 2013-04-01 23:43:06 Reply

You guys are forgetting that now Woodbury is a ghost town so Rick's group has all of its supplies and resources which is more than enough to sustain everyone in the prison especially considering a gigantic portion of Woodbury has just been slaughtered throughout all of season 3 especially in the last two episodes.

Also without a doubt Carl was justified in shooting that man. He was getting close to Carl instead of simply dropping his weapon. It seemed to me that he thought he could take his chances against Carl and Herschel. Carl has seen what happens when you be nice to your enemies in the post-apocalyptic world. Andrea and Milton are the latest people to make that mistake.

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Response to The Walking Dead 2013-04-02 00:32:10 Reply

Thinking back on everything, The Governor is a really tragic character.

Once upon a time he was a man who thought he might be able to do a lot of good and pull humanity back from the brink of death, but his own narcissism, lust for power, and thirst for vengeance turned him into an irredeemable monster.

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Response to The Walking Dead 2013-04-02 00:33:23 Reply

Also without a doubt Carl was justified in shooting that man. He was getting close to Carl instead of simply dropping his weapon. It seemed to me that he thought he could take his chances against Carl and Herschel. Carl has seen what happens when you be nice to your enemies in the post-apocalyptic world. Andrea and Milton are the latest people to make that mistake.

That is why his finger was clearly off the trigger and it only got lower to the ground and pointed further away from every inch.
And keep justifying the bullshit until you watch the scene again.

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Response to The Walking Dead 2013-04-02 05:40:17 Reply

The first time I watched it I completely sided with Carl. I re-watched it a few times and it's pretty clear Herschel was right, the kid never once pointed the gun at them and while yes it is his own fault he died because he didn't drop it, Carl never attempted to reinforce the authority to drop the gun and took the easy way out. Rick would have given more of a fuck. All those reasons Carl gives afterwards are piss poor after they rescue that woman from the truck and all those people from Woodbury. Would Carl have risked trusting Tyreese at the Woodbury gates if he was in Rick's situation?

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Response to The Walking Dead 2013-04-02 07:16:12 Reply

At 4/2/13 05:40 AM, BPremo wrote: The first time I watched it I completely sided with Carl. I re-watched it a few times and it's pretty clear Herschel was right, the kid never once pointed the gun at them and while yes it is his own fault he died because he didn't drop it, Carl never attempted to reinforce the authority to drop the gun and took the easy way out. Rick would have given more of a fuck. All those reasons Carl gives afterwards are piss poor after they rescue that woman from the truck and all those people from Woodbury. Would Carl have risked trusting Tyreese at the Woodbury gates if he was in Rick's situation?

Thing is it's about more than that one situation. As the series has demonstrated, putting good faith in those you don't fully trust never ends well i.e. Andrea. I'm pretty certain that was one of the main points the season was trying to say about the world it's created.

The fact we even debate whether Carl was right in that instance is, I imagine, exactly what was meant to come from the scene being orchestrated as it was.


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Response to The Walking Dead 2013-04-02 07:23:48 Reply

At 4/2/13 12:32 AM, Darthdenim wrote: Thinking back on everything, The Governor is a really tragic character.

Once upon a time he was a man who thought he might be able to do a lot of good and pull humanity back from the brink of death, but his own narcissism, lust for power, and thirst for vengeance turned him into an irredeemable monster.

Same thing with Shane and opposite with Daryl who actually has become a better person in the post-apocalyptic world.

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Response to The Walking Dead 2013-04-02 10:00:48 Reply

Thing is it's about more than that one situation. As the series has demonstrated, putting good faith in those you don't fully trust never ends well i.e. Andrea. I'm pretty certain that was one of the main points the season was trying to say about the world it's created.

The fact we even debate whether Carl was right in that instance is, I imagine, exactly what was meant to come from the scene being orchestrated as it was.

There is no debate, only rewatch the scene man... I'm sorry it was crystal clear his finger was never even on the trigger and it got progressively less dangerous as he lowered it more and faced it further away.

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Response to The Walking Dead 2013-04-02 10:05:08 Reply

At 4/2/13 10:00 AM, Ceratisa wrote:
Thing is it's about more than that one situation. As the series has demonstrated, putting good faith in those you don't fully trust never ends well i.e. Andrea. I'm pretty certain that was one of the main points the season was trying to say about the world it's created.

The fact we even debate whether Carl was right in that instance is, I imagine, exactly what was meant to come from the scene being orchestrated as it was.
There is no debate, only rewatch the scene man... I'm sorry it was crystal clear his finger was never even on the trigger and it got progressively less dangerous as he lowered it more and faced it further away.

it's not about just this bit carl has other things in his mind oh my gooooodnesssssssssssssssssss are you fucking thick

I think it's been said enough times by enough people

The Walking Dead


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Response to The Walking Dead 2013-04-02 10:11:56 Reply

At 4/2/13 10:05 AM, Otto wrote:
At 4/2/13 10:00 AM, Ceratisa wrote:
Thing is it's about more than that one situation. As the series has demonstrated, putting good faith in those you don't fully trust never ends well i.e. Andrea. I'm pretty certain that was one of the main points the season was trying to say about the world it's created.

The fact we even debate whether Carl was right in that instance is, I imagine, exactly what was meant to come from the scene being orchestrated as it was.
There is no debate, only rewatch the scene man... I'm sorry it was crystal clear his finger was never even on the trigger and it got progressively less dangerous as he lowered it more and faced it further away.
it's not about just this bit carl has other things in his mind oh my gooooodnesssssssssssssssssss are you fucking thick

I think it's been said enough times by enough people

Oh my goodness you are fucking sad, I've experienced tons of bad shit in my life, don't go on about empathy you little pathetic prick. How about you experience sexual abuse, abandonment, an abusive foster home, then go on and continue to make fun of the person with asperger's (chemically induced) who has a better grasp of empathy than you. Shut the fuck up sped, you are insulting a fellow retard over here (autism)
And, you know what? Oh no he lost his mother? I never knew mine she ran off and my father is the one who I nearly drown because of for neglect -He left me alone by the pool while he went to hit on a woman according to the court files-

Carl is a little prick who had everything then started to lose shit and is now being a little bitch.

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Response to The Walking Dead 2013-04-02 10:20:08 Reply

At 4/2/13 10:11 AM, Ceratisa wrote: How about you experience sexual abuse, abandonment, an abusive foster home, then go on and continue to make fun of the person with asperger's (chemically induced) who has a better grasp of empathy than you. Shut the fuck up sped, you are insulting a fellow retard over here (autism)
And, you know what? Oh no he lost his mother? I never knew mine she ran off and my father is the one who I nearly drown because of for neglect -He left me alone by the pool while he went to hit on a woman according to the court files-

Hahaha oh wow holy shit this is golden right here you better back the fuck up Otto this guy is for real I mean whoa

The Walking Dead


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Response to The Walking Dead 2013-04-02 10:22:04 Reply

At 4/2/13 10:11 AM, Ceratisa wrote: Oh my goodness you are fucking sad, I've experienced tons of bad shit in my life, don't go on about empathy you little pathetic prick. How about you experience sexual abuse, abandonment, an abusive foster home, then go on and continue to make fun of the person with asperger's (chemically induced) who has a better grasp of empathy than you. Shut the fuck up sped, you are insulting a fellow retard over here (autism)
And, you know what? Oh no he lost his mother? I never knew mine she ran off and my father is the one who I nearly drown because of for neglect -He left me alone by the pool while he went to hit on a woman according to the court files-

Sorry as I am about all that you've not really made a case for being unbiased here. The point of empathy is not to see it in relation to yourself, but to see it from outside of that

The Walking Dead


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Ceratisa
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Response to The Walking Dead 2013-04-02 10:23:50 Reply

Hahaha oh wow holy shit this is golden right here you better back the fuck up Otto this guy is for real I mean whoa

I already went over this all Xenomit and was fine for him poking fun at it. Otto better have way worse shit if he needs to be Carl and pull the trigger still, cause I wouldn't. Carl is a princess who had a nice family until the zed head apoc came.

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Response to The Walking Dead 2013-04-02 10:26:19 Reply

At 4/2/13 10:23 AM, Ceratisa wrote:
Hahaha oh wow holy shit this is golden right here you better back the fuck up Otto this guy is for real I mean whoa
I already went over this all Xenomit and was fine for him poking fun at it. Otto better have way worse shit if he needs to be Carl and pull the trigger still, cause I wouldn't. Carl is a princess who had a nice family until the zed head apoc came.

You do not know what empathy is.

To think empathetically would be to understand that relative to his old life, his new life is a living hell even more so than someone who had a shitty life before. You have got it totally backwards.

The Walking Dead


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Response to The Walking Dead 2013-04-02 10:27:58 Reply

Sorry as I am about all that you've not really made a case for being unbiased here. The point of empathy is not to see it in relation to yourself, but to see it from outside of that

I'm sorry that you can't just admit everyone is bias, you see if you are so little a person that you can't fucking admit that you have bias and then come out and say it. The point of empathy is putting yourself in someone elses shoes which has nothing to do with my bias against Carl as a character. If you can't identify yourself or your own bias you have no place commenting chav.

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Response to The Walking Dead 2013-04-02 10:34:53 Reply

At 4/2/13 10:27 AM, Ceratisa wrote:
Sorry as I am about all that you've not really made a case for being unbiased here. The point of empathy is not to see it in relation to yourself, but to see it from outside of that
I'm sorry that you can't just admit everyone is bias, you see if you are so little a person that you can't fucking admit that you have bias and then come out and say it. The point of empathy is putting yourself in someone elses shoes which has nothing to do with my bias against Carl as a character. If you can't identify yourself or your own bias you have no place commenting chav.

I am flabbergasted. My life or yours has nothing to do with it. If you think empathy is the comparison of your life and someone elses, then you have totally missed the point of it.


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Response to The Walking Dead 2013-04-02 10:38:16 Reply

At 4/2/13 10:26 AM, Otto wrote:
At 4/2/13 10:23 AM, Ceratisa wrote:
Hahaha oh wow holy shit this is golden right here you better back the fuck up Otto this guy is for real I mean whoa
I already went over this all Xenomit and was fine for him poking fun at it. Otto better have way worse shit if he needs to be Carl and pull the trigger still, cause I wouldn't. Carl is a princess who had a nice family until the zed head apoc came.
You do not know what empathy is.

To think empathetically would be to understand that relative to his old life, his new life is a living hell even more so than someone who had a shitty life before. You have got it totally backwards.

You are joking? Oh no he had a good life some bad shit happens I totally understand why he shot down a kid in cold blood? But I've seen that you've resorted to the emotional argument because you don't want to argue facts.

Like the fact that it got continually less dangerous the closer the weapon got.
Or the fact that Carl was more experienced in combat than any of the kids the Governor mowed down.
The fact that the kids finger was clearly off the trigger.
The fact that two people had handguns on him at close range.
The fact that the child Carl shot had openly stated his intent and no one had made an effort to reinforce that they wanted him to simply put down the gun.

Which facts would you like to argue instead of your appeal to emotion bullshit?