At 5/4/10 05:22 PM, xKore wrote: yeah but that requires you knowing your system well and not getting jaded and carried away after hours of production. even if its a minor flaw, it still means that having a flat monotiring system is more desirable.

Yeah, as well as studio subwoofers. It only really applies if you don't mix with different sets of equipment as well without a referance lke another track in the same genre you're making, because then you'll boost or cut one thing, then head back onto some other equipment and boost this and that, and it just won't work.

FYI, BTW, IN CASE YA HADN'T HERD D WERD:

Earbuds are actualy really good at re-creating bass frequencies as they are inside the ear canal so there's no room modes and you get the full range.

Btw, Bird is d werd.

At 5/4/10 05:33 PM, Chris-V2 wrote: FYI, BTW, IN CASE YA HADN'T HERD D WERD:

Earbuds are actualy really good at re-creating bass frequencies as they are inside the ear canal so there's no room modes and you get the full range.

Btw, Bird is d werd.

Yessssssssss but they still might not have a flat response.

At 5/4/10 05:34 PM, AlexCo wrote:

Yessssssssss but they still might not have a flat response.

Who says you want a flat response? Have a sub woofer under your desk and two little PC tweeters is hardly a flat response!

At 5/4/10 05:22 PM, xKore wrote:

At 5/4/10 05:16 PM, AlexCo wrote:

At 5/4/10 05:01 PM, xKore wrote: The problem that some may face with subs is that they over compensate, meaning you'll end up putting less bass in your production since you are happy with the amount of bass your sub is giving out. Kind of the opposite problem.

Yeah, but if you're used to what tracks sound like on your system, then you will know how much sub it needs to fit to sound like another track of the same genre playing on your system, meaning that if your sub is the right level on your system, it should be on any other system.

yeah but that requires you knowing your system well and not getting jaded and carried away after hours of production. even if its a minor flaw, it still means that having a flat monotiring system is more desirable.

Well sometimes some producers do miss some little things and they do end up in the final project. One that I remember loud and clear is the Spider-Man theme. In one of the main themes you can hear a cat go "MRAOW!" in the high vocals but in every other Spider-Man movie it isn't there. It is just a small example but it is a good one. Some people do miss the little things and they end up killing the song sometimes.

That is why I think it is important to have a good setup. Even with the leveling of DB's I think it would offset it for people who have their setup completely different.

I think all genres suffer from this and the only answer to it... is to listen to it with different setups. Not so much as in speakers... well actually you don't know if someone has a blown out speaker or if the speaker truly does project the sound waves like they do at the audio places. You can never tell but try different setups and see if you notice a big difference.

I constantly keep messing with the EQUO. Its my favorite plug-in to use for any style of music. But for Dubstep... I actually use the Vocoder to help bring out the Bass line extremes and level them out. However by doing so it messes up the Woof of it. That is if the Bass is way too heavy and is clipping the song. I have to give it another try to see what happens with it when I use the Vocoder and the EQUO.

At 5/4/10 05:35 PM, Chris-V2 wrote:

At 5/4/10 05:34 PM, AlexCo wrote:

Yessssssssss but they still might not have a flat response.

Who says you want a flat response? Have a sub woofer under your desk and two little PC tweeters is hardly a flat response!

I'm not saying I want a flat response, I'm saying what the best equipment to mix with should have. :P

At 5/4/10 05:45 PM, AlexCo wrote:

I'm not saying I want a flat response, I'm saying what the best equipment to mix with should have. :P

Then you're being pedantic...but I was being pedantic...

You have less posts, therefore I win.

I agree with the posts about handsup

Find a pair of headphones with a subwoofer in them and your points will become valid.

The headphone IS the subwoofer. It can handle high, and lows, and mids. It's keeping a balance of the three with low intermodulation distortion that becomes a problem, and if you push the gain up you'll hear these problems in no time.

At 5/5/10 03:58 PM, Chris-V2 wrote: The headphone IS the subwoofer.

You're stupid.

this is why handsup is best. no one argues about this random shit.

At 5/5/10 05:23 PM, IKONiC wrote:

You're stupid.

Do you have an actual reason as to why an Earbud can't produce bass frequencies?

No, you're stupid!

At 5/5/10 05:54 PM, Chris-V2 wrote:

At 5/5/10 05:23 PM, IKONiC wrote:

You're stupid.

Do you have an actual reason as to why an Earbud can't produce bass frequencies?

No, you're stupid!

Earbuds aren't physically capable of producing bass the same way headphones or monitors can. The only reason you feel the bass is because it's crammed down your ear so every sound is amplified, including the "bass". The magnets inside the earbuds aren't physically big enough to produce those frequencies of sound. If it can, it's extremely feint or it's distorted. THERE IS NO SUCH THING AS A SUBWOOFER EARBUD.

It's even wrong to be mixing / mastering on headphones. The final mix should -always- be done on monitors.

I meant it was the subwoofer as in it reproduced the low frequencies. The fact that it uses your ear canal is irrelevant, it still makes the sound. Why shouldn't mixing involve headphones? It's good for checking mono compatability too. Headphones are a huge modern listening medium. The panning and such gets exagerated- you wont to make sure the headphone experience isn't uncomfortably wide too!

I think anyone who feels they should be mixing for the guy with 5 grand Genelec moniters is missing the point. You're audience doesn't have them! And the sort of audiophile who has a huge setup probably isn't happy with .mp3 format audio anyway.

At 5/4/10 04:29 PM, AlexCo wrote:

At 5/4/10 04:19 PM, Rig wrote: Well, it's kinda valid. Dubstep is MADE in the subwoofer frequencies. If you can't hear those frequencies, then you're not listening to it in the way that it was meant to be. It's like listening to happy hardcore without the mid-highs...it just sounds weird.

It won't though. Producers use a technique of splitting the basses into 3 parts, Low, Mid and High. This way, without a sub, theres still something there.

Not everyone does, though, and that's what I mean. Listen to http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zE0pUKHtw _M or http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gCZjTKUxq ek both with and without your sub on and tell me that you're not missing anything.

The filthier and greasier, the better.

At 5/5/10 08:23 PM, TheLastThreePeople wrote: This thread is now about Justin Bieber

No, it's not. Keep it on topic.

At 5/5/10 07:41 PM, Rig wrote: Not everyone does, though, and that's what I mean. Listen to http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zE0pUKHtw _M or http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gCZjTKUxq ek both with and without your sub on and tell me that you're not missing anything.

I see what you mean, but I also notice that it sounds pretty good on dinky laptop speakers as well. (Well ok mac pro speakers are up their in terms of laptop speakers ;D ).

I guess I see it as "hearing more" with a subwoofer as opposed to "missing something" without.

also i use earbuds all the time.

At 5/6/10 01:49 AM, Methreee wrote: this thread is still about dubstep right?

Yes. Unfortunately for you, it's not about whoring out your own songs without context.

At 5/6/10 01:50 AM, Rig wrote:

At 5/6/10 01:49 AM, Methreee wrote: this thread is still about dubstep right?

Yes. Unfortunately for you, it's not about whoring out your own songs without context.

I must have read this wrong then; "This is the place for Dubstep Artists to get the right crowd listening to their hard work."
I think you guys took it to a different tangent. Also dammit I just uploaded a track to post in here, but now i will not.

At 5/6/10 02:01 AM, Methreee wrote:

At 5/6/10 01:50 AM, Rig wrote:

At 5/6/10 01:49 AM, Methreee wrote: this thread is still about dubstep right?

Yes. Unfortunately for you, it's not about whoring out your own songs without context.

I must have read this wrong then; "This is the place for Dubstep Artists to get the right crowd listening to their hard work."
I think you guys took it to a different tangent. Also dammit I just uploaded a track to post in here, but now i will not.

Well if you have any questions on your submission for Dubstep then post it in here I guess. We can help you make it better. For me I want to mess with the Bass DB's some more without it drowning out the sound of everything else. In the song I posted up a while ago which is here: I noticed that the same error I made before happened again where there is some bass... but its buffered out.

• 

  Feel the Dub n step (WIP)

  by TheCon-Sept

  Work in progress for a Dubstep song.

  Loop

  Miscellaneous

  980 Views

  PLAY

So I have to figure out how to add in the bass to the right frequencies without it over powering the vocals. I also have to bring out its high register without it completely taking over the bass. Thats my issue. Any ideas? I have to mess with Sytrus more often. I only just figured out how to do it in Sytrus. and I like it because you can flip the wave DB upside down to give it that Wip DiwooF sound.

It is sort of a DJ style disc scratching thing with the wobble bass.

So if you have questions and an example to show don't be affraid to put it up in here. We are here to help.

At 5/4/10 11:50 AM, guilmonx wrote: Dubstep requires a subwoofer. Most other music does not use Bass like Dubstep does.

I wholly disagree. First of all nearly all electronic music has a SIGNIFIGANT difference with and without a subwoofer. Yes, dubstep is all about the bass but as others have said the bass is usually pretty wide spectrum-wise... in comparison to stuff like tech house and minimal where the majority of the sound is soft subbass where you really DO need a subwoofer to hear it properly. Still, I can enjoy it just as much through tinny laptop speakers, it's the music that matters in the end not really the system you listen to it on, good music is good music on any system. And finally, not all of us can afford a good quality subwoofer, I would certainly love to have one but I am saving up until I have several hunderd dollars for a high quality MONITOR subwoofer, not one of those shitty cheap HOME THEATER ones. Seriously, if you are using a <$100 home theater sub to listen to your dubstep you're probably just listening to a pile of noise, and not as you say "listening to it properly". Yeah, if you really want to "listen to it properly" you'd have to buy thousands of dollars of professional equipment, and properly sound treat your room, etc... you see my point? Yes OF COURSE your listening medium will drastically effect the quality of what you're hearing. But lack of the proper mediums does not in any way diminish appreciation of music and you cannot say that someone can't be a REAL FAN of a music genre if they don't have a god damn subwoofer, or expensive headphones, or whatever. Get rid of the fucking elitist attitude.

At 5/6/10 04:40 AM, gregaaron89 wrote:

At 5/4/10 11:50 AM, guilmonx wrote: Dubstep requires a subwoofer. Most other music does not use Bass like Dubstep does.

I wholly disagree. First of all nearly all electronic music has a SIGNIFIGANT difference with and without a subwoofer. Yes, dubstep is all about the bass but as others have said the bass is usually pretty wide spectrum-wise... in comparison to stuff like tech house and minimal where the majority of the sound is soft subbass where you really DO need a subwoofer to hear it properly. Still, I can enjoy it just as much through tinny laptop speakers, it's the music that matters in the end not really the system you listen to it on, good music is good music on any system. And finally, not all of us can afford a good quality subwoofer, I would certainly love to have one but I am saving up until I have several hunderd dollars for a high quality MONITOR subwoofer, not one of those shitty cheap HOME THEATER ones. Seriously, if you are using a <$100 home theater sub to listen to your dubstep you're probably just listening to a pile of noise, and not as you say "listening to it properly". Yeah, if you really want to "listen to it properly" you'd have to buy thousands of dollars of professional equipment, and properly sound treat your room, etc... you see my point? Yes OF COURSE your listening medium will drastically effect the quality of what you're hearing. But lack of the proper mediums does not in any way diminish appreciation of music and you cannot say that someone can't be a REAL FAN of a music genre if they don't have a god damn subwoofer, or expensive headphones, or whatever. Get rid of the fucking elitist attitude.

You are not the first person to go against me. Dubstep really does require a subwoofer of some type to be heard correctly. You miss a lot without one. If you have at least something to give that feeling of the "Woof" of the bass then you can appreciate dubstep more. And no. Most people who do love dubstep do listen to it with a subwoofer. You do miss a lot without one because the bass is there to make you feel like you are being abducted. Its not an elitist attidude. Its the cold hard truth. Listen to Dubstep without a woofer and then listen to it with one. You will notice a HUGE difference. if you got a bass amp lying around PLUG IT IN. Your friend bringing over his guitar amp? PLUG IT IN.

Dubstep really does rely on heavy bass lines. You can listen only to that high register sound wave but without that low one... Like I said. Its like drinking powder milk. Sure the nutrients are there... it just tastes really bad.

Dubstep artists put a lot into that bassline. Stop taking a huge offense to it and listen to what we are all talking about. Its like that old saying. Once it woof's you never go back.

At 5/6/10 06:33 AM, guilmonx wrote: You will notice a HUGE difference.

that's true for any type of music. as greg said, it's even more true for something like tech house or minimal tech, where basses are usually purely sine based in those styles.

sub bass isn't somehow exclusive to dubstep.

whats dub step? for serious. can someone link me to some examples? i find that it's always better to ask for examples then to hunt for them. other people always have such sexy music to share.

At 5/6/10 06:33 AM, guilmonx wrote: Dubstep really does rely on heavy bass lines. You can listen only to that high register sound wave but without that low one... Like I said. Its like drinking powder milk. Sure the nutrients are there... it just tastes really bad.

Dubstep artists put a lot into that bassline. Stop taking a huge offense to it and listen to what we are all talking about. Its like that old saying. Once it woof's you never go back.

You are really starting to sound less like you actually know what you are talking about and more like some twit getting severely caught up in the hype surrounding a new genre.

DUBSTEPPIN IT YO WOOF WOOF

At 5/5/10 07:41 PM, Rig wrote: Not everyone does, though, and that's what I mean. Listen to http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zE0pUKHtw _M or http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gCZjTKUxq ek both with and without your sub on and tell me that you're not missing anything.

I wasn't saying that you won't miss anything from the mix man, that's stupid.

But in that tune, there's more than a sub. Theres sounds in the mids which keep you entertained instead of the track being a pure sub, so it is split into sub and mids as I said.

At 5/5/10 06:36 PM, IKONiC wrote:

At 5/5/10 05:54 PM, Chris-V2 wrote:

At 5/5/10 05:23 PM, IKONiC wrote:

You're stupid.

Do you have an actual reason as to why an Earbud can't produce bass frequencies?

No, you're stupid!

Earbuds aren't physically capable of producing bass the same way headphones or monitors can. The only reason you feel the bass is because it's crammed down your ear so every sound is amplified, including the "bass". The magnets inside the earbuds aren't physically big enough to produce those frequencies of sound. If it can, it's extremely feint or it's distorted. THERE IS NO SUCH THING AS A SUBWOOFER EARBUD.

It's even wrong to be mixing / mastering on headphones. The final mix should -always- be done on monitors.

Hey Elitist Man, how's the superhero gig going?

Here's a pro tip, learn about frequency balance before you make huge assuming posts regarding frequency balance.

http://graphs.headphone.com/graphCompare .php?graphType=0&graphID[]=1333

LOL I HERD EARBUDS CAN'T OVEREMPHASIZE OR EVEN PRODUCE BASS FREQUENCIES LOLOLOLOL

Oh, wait, Skullcandy. It's like a fucking subwoofer crammed down your ear.

Magnet and driver size have nothing to do with a monitoring device's capability of producing a frequency of oscillation. Many headphones have a lower frequency response than many subwoofers support, for instance. Their capability of representing this frequency range as loudly as other frequency ranges is highly dependent on what the creator wishes to emphasize in their product, not by rote virtue of not being purpose-built for the task.

As an example, I am aware that my low sub-bass response on these headphones I'm using right now is slightly poor in the 5-18 Hz range. That's right, FIVE. The low end sub response of my headphones is FIVE HERTZ. Many subs don't even reach below 20. I hope you can see why you saying "headphones/earbuds can't produce sub frequencies" is ridiculous. Their ability to reproduce them at all is not in question, though their ability to tune their volume to be in line with the volumes of the remaining frequencies is a huge difficulty headphones/earbuds have to overcome in order to make a well-respected high end product. It is not nearly so difficult to do this if the end user can simply independently adjust the volume of his 2.1 channel system's components.

The reason subwoofers are impressive is that they provide bass response tweeters don't. It lets you have a system with properly channeled sound (the bass comes from low center with the mids and highs coming from head level to the sides) and easily adjustable (subs are very powerful but isolated, so you can tune the bass response to be in line with your speakers and not too powerful). Because one piece of hardware focuses on one frequency that its driver size is specialized for, it will not produce a mismatched frequency graph, it simply won't produce frequencies that are mismatched to its driver size. The more driver sizes in your sound system and the better tuned the sound system the better sound you'll get out of it.

You do not "need a subwoofer" to appreciate bass-heavy music, as many other sound solutions produce a good level of bass energy just like a subwoofer does; but, in order to have a highly BALANCED, sound system you would need to invest in some very cleverely engineered headphones while you would not need such a well engineered solitary driver in a bigger system since you have all kinds of driver sizes to handle frequency flatness.