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HahaISuckMoreThanYou
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Response to Writing Forum Lounge 2010-02-03 17:31:10 Reply

At 2/3/10 05:24 PM, InsertFunnyUserName wrote: I think that authors should also need to ask permission to use the story, as opposed to just coauthoring the person and having them find out for themselves when they see that they have a new flash submission that they didn't submit. This is to prevent writers from having their stories done by flash artists who don't have that much talent. Writers can look at the person's earlier submissions and decide for themselves.

I don't know, tbh that's probably expecting too much, as with the music portal, flash authors tend to use their music reguardless of how "crappy" they are as long as they co-sponsor, not to mention just reading a good story/poem sticks to someone, it's not illegal to copy the idea of the same story anyways, so I don't think this could be a viable option.

Version2
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Response to Writing Forum Lounge 2010-02-03 18:36:18 Reply

I'm thinking that the "My own personal essay thread" thing might not be working :(

What do you think? Seems like the thread gets to long to fast, I think that might be causing people to lose interest in the thread before they are done.

RWT
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Response to Writing Forum Lounge 2010-02-03 18:58:47 Reply

At 2/3/10 06:36 PM, Version2 wrote: I'm thinking that the "My own personal essay thread" thing might not be working :(
At 2/2/10 12:35 PM, RWT wrote: I just don't think it's working for everyone to post their crap in their one long personal thread...
At 2/2/10 12:43 PM, gumOnShoe wrote: There is no requirement for anyone to make a "my stories" thread. Its something people started doing. Don't feel you can't make another thread when its appropriate, just keep in mind that if you have 6 threads on the first page full of unedited work its not likely people are going to want to read anything you write anymore. And that's being said to everyone, not just you.

I just wanted to do that in the most tongue-in-cheek way possible.

In all seriousness, Gum said it. Don't feel restricted to one thread. Feel free to make a thread (occassionally) if you really want to show something off. And that's being said to everyone, not just you.

-~RWT~-


If you don't like my poetry, scroll down the page a bit. It gets better.

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TrevorW
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Response to Writing Forum Lounge 2010-02-03 18:59:50 Reply

I just would like to apologize. I see my responses getting shorter and shorter. I think the lack of sleep is getting to me...finally. I promise come this weekend I will improve my responses.


Failure should push you until success can pull you.

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Deathcon7
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Response to Writing Forum Lounge 2010-02-03 21:56:15 Reply

Writers are a needy bunch. I admit, I'm very needy when it comes to my writing. I've been known to hassle people incessantly if I manage to trap them into reading what I wrote. It seems that this tendency is beginning to, and will further do so, clog the Writing forum. Everyone wants to post and have read what they wrote. This preoccupation is such that all other threads are ignored. I'll admit, I'm guilty of this.

I think that there should be a clear organization on how things should be. For example, people can continue to post at will, however, we can schedule "read" days. Almost like a book club. A user, on a first come first serve basis, will request a particular day. They'll have up until that day, and even during it, to post anything they want read to their personal thread(s).

Each day, the user will change, and those involved in the book club will read that material. This is by no means a restriction, but an activity. Threads not posted by that user are still eligible threads, this will just be an activity to help promote review of users' work in an organized way.

There could even be short-term writing competitions separate from the MWC to help promote a writing/reading environment. There could even be a dedicated reviewer system set-up. Two or more people will make-up a group. It's up to that group to read each others' work and comment. These groups can then get shuffled once a month to mix things up. There could then be mini-competitions between groups, within groups, or as a group.

RWT
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Response to Writing Forum Lounge 2010-02-03 22:36:14 Reply

At 2/3/10 09:56 PM, Deathcon7 wrote: Just read his last post. >_>

I like the ideas. From what I've seen so far, the Writer's forum is most likely going to be populated by a few writing-inclined regs, and the occassional forum-goer who wrote a cool story. Nothing against the spirit of 'everyone posts everything they write', but not much is going to get read like that. People will most likely continue to maintain personal threads. And this is definitely the place to keep them. But most personal threads will most likely end up safely filed in the backlog of the writing forum, linked to by their authors via sig.

So that leaves the Writing Forum open to community-based activities. We have two groups of people so far: (Three if you count trolls; I don't) Writers, and Commentators. The two aren't mutually exclusive, of course. Right now, Writers are just posting their things, and Commentators are trying to sift through a page and a half of threads, looking for gems and writing critiques and reviews. I would say we have a pretty healthy margin of people to look over what's been written. Even more if you include people (I know who you are!) who aren't articulate enough to post comments.

So, what I suggest: (Basically what Deathcon said) writing contests. Form clubs and/or crews, and have monthly or even weekly contests. Like I mentioned before, we could have a thread where we vote on a user of the week to showcase a story. I'm sorry for not considering the load this would put on mods the last time I presented this idea, but nothing says it has to be official or mod-run.

The idea: Maybe someone like WritersBlock could make a blog post, edit it every week to link to the current highlighted author's thread, and post a link to the blog post in a "Writer of the Week" thread. Keep the thread bumped with chatter, and it will direct all the writing forum traffic to that author for a week. Give it enough time, and all of the work that has been judged of suitable quality will get seen en mass.

The Lit Portal is unlikely to change much. It is not perfectly synonymous with the Writing Forum, and I don't think it's intended to be. For starters, my understanding of it is that submitting content to the Lit Portal may affect its copyright status. But I don't want to throw gas on a fire, especially one on which I may not completely be well informed or a reliable source. Second, I doubt a lot of the dribble we're tending to put on here is wanted on the Lit Portal. There's always going to be a healthy layer of personal writings at the bottom of this forum. So let's work together as a community to make a nice fa├žade of harmony and forum citizenship to show the world, and entice readers.

(I am so going to eat crow for that question on the copyright, aren't I? I'm aware that certain rights are voided simply in posting anything on this forum, but I'd just like to get it cleared up in my mind. Or before anyone else asks.)

-~RWT~-


If you don't like my poetry, scroll down the page a bit. It gets better.

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HollowedPumkinz
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Response to Writing Forum Lounge 2010-02-03 22:52:31 Reply

You know I've come to realize something. I realize that the only things a man needs to keep himself sane are: Color, Music & Writing. If I could have all these things and nothing more, I would live a happy life. These 3 things are the very foundation of entertainment and you can't find a single piece of greatness without it. Writing in particular; because it's in everything you enjoy really. TV, movies, advertisement, comics, video games, music, fuck even porn.
Even things that necessarily don't have any writing in them are stories. This is to say, things like pictures, illustrations, drawings and art in general; well, they have the same effect anyway. A picture is worth a thousand words. They speak to us without words and carry the same feelings of taking us to another place at another time and telling a story all their own. And what is art without color? It isn't art is what it is. Color gives things life and makes things vibrant and stand out, something black and white can't achieve or at least, do it as effectively.
Music is also story telling. But it also has a special property that can seduce us and bring us to new levels of emotion. Music can build up and break down. It really is something to awe at. The beats, the rhythmic notion, and a sense of being there really put music to a new standard. It not only tells a story, it vividly brings it to life, gives it movement and makes us feel it.
This is all a tad random but I suppose the meaning of all this is that Writing is in all things and there is no way we can go without it.


Even as I walk through the shadow of the Valley of Death, I shall fear no Evil. Semper Fidelis

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Deathcon7
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Response to Writing Forum Lounge 2010-02-03 22:53:52 Reply

Thanks for the post and support RWT. I think it may take some time, but order would definitely be needed to maintain some semblance of community. Otherwise, it'll just be various posts joined by the fact that they were made in the Writing forum. This is fine in forums such as the flash forum, or general, but with the writing forum, a modicum of feedback is expected, otherwise why bother post?

In regards to the rights to what you place in the Lit Portal, they would continue to be yours. It would even be beneficial in the case of determining copyright. Having it published however will be a lot more difficult. A publish will always want first rights, which means they will exclusively publish the piece for a predetermined amount of time. After that point, rights are reverted to you and you can do as you please, for example, post it in the lit portal. When in doubt however, always consult the publisher if you have one interested.

Nateofwar
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Response to Writing Forum Lounge 2010-02-03 22:58:21 Reply

at somthing 'o clock someday Some people said:
stuff about how this forum works

For how much i enjoy the idea of contests and writing competitions i completely disagree with any notions of anything other than the controlled chaos we have now. Perhaps making a personal thread like ive seen alot of people doin is a nice idea but thats as far as i think we realy have to go. If you realy want your stuff to get read just drop a post in the reg lounge, its the first place i go to when i come to this forum so i know id see it. But still that might just be somthing you do for your best work we dont need a post here everytime some yahoo rights a poem.

Btw check out my non-sense poem thread!

see what i did there

Nateofwar owns your mother

TrevorW
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Response to Writing Forum Lounge 2010-02-03 23:10:10 Reply

If you go to my blog I have a list of authors and pieces to keep an eye on.


Failure should push you until success can pull you.

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Nateofwar
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Response to Writing Forum Lounge 2010-02-03 23:12:38 Reply

At 2/3/10 11:10 PM, TrevorW wrote: If you go to my blog I have a list of authors and pieces to keep an eye on.

that reminds me i been meaning to post some of my work thats not lame poetry or somthing like that


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Response to Writing Forum Lounge 2010-02-03 23:16:11 Reply

At 2/3/10 11:12 PM, Nateofwar wrote:
At 2/3/10 11:10 PM, TrevorW wrote: If you go to my blog I have a list of authors and pieces to keep an eye on.
that reminds me i been meaning to post some of my work thats not lame poetry or somthing like that

Go for it. And review my story "In twenty" or my poetry topic. GoGo :P

I look forward to your work.


Failure should push you until success can pull you.

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RWT
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Response to Writing Forum Lounge 2010-02-03 23:37:44 Reply

At 2/3/10 10:53 PM, Deathcon7 wrote: Otherwise, it'll just be various posts joined by the fact that they were made in the Writing forum. This is fine in forums such as the flash forum, or general, but with the writing forum, a modicum of feedback is expected, otherwise why bother post?

I'm a regular in the pretentious forum. Success!

Seriously, though, time to plug my work- Review My Draft for the MWC!


If you don't like my poetry, scroll down the page a bit. It gets better.

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sinfulwolf
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Response to Writing Forum Lounge 2010-02-04 00:19:35 Reply

Well... being new to this particular part of the forums I'll just say "hi". I'm Sinfulwolf as I'm sure is painfully obvious by the name plastered just above this here post.

Anyway, my point of coming here is that I'm an amateur writer. I do it for fun as I simply enjoy creating little world. I currently have a story running in my blog that I've been working on for the past few months. Read it or not, its there for entertainment purposes.

Well, hope I fit in here easily enough, and hope to see some great pieces.

HollowedPumkinz
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Response to Writing Forum Lounge 2010-02-04 01:02:05 Reply

At 2/3/10 11:10 PM, TrevorW wrote: If you go to my blog I have a list of authors and pieces to keep an eye on.

That's a very nice list there. I like the scarecrow one very much and am glad to see it on your list.

(shameless plug)

Oh, you cheeky bastard.


Even as I walk through the shadow of the Valley of Death, I shall fear no Evil. Semper Fidelis

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Version2
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Response to Writing Forum Lounge 2010-02-04 01:21:13 Reply

At 2/3/10 10:58 PM, Nateofwar wrote: If you realy want your stuff to get read just drop a post in the reg lounge

I did, It's been a day now :(

X1SephX
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Response to Writing Forum Lounge 2010-02-04 01:27:29 Reply

At 2/4/10 01:21 AM, Version2 wrote:
At 2/3/10 10:58 PM, Nateofwar wrote: If you realy want your stuff to get read just drop a post in the reg lounge
I did, It's been a day now :(

You could try putting it on your sig. with an alluring title.

lol look at RWT's sig. he actually pleads which in turn i couldn't help but click on it.


If you're a HARDCORE FAN prepare to be always disappointed.

Version2
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Response to Writing Forum Lounge 2010-02-04 01:55:39 Reply

"Writing 2.0 Please help me improve my writing by leaving comments!"

It is in my sig :P

HahaISuckMoreThanYou
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Response to Writing Forum Lounge 2010-02-04 04:20:14 Reply

Hurh, I should start keeping copies of my finished stories in my blog too, I usually post my unfinished stories in my blog, then my first drafts of my completed story in the forum to see if people like my idea of things, then I fix up the story on paper to stick in my notebook, which is kind of unfair I suppose since the criticism I get did help, then again, I think it'll be more joyful once a literary portal pops up because I see views happening on my thread, just no comment, so I see one person usually comments on my story and I take it to heart and think of ways to mod it.

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Response to Writing Forum Lounge 2010-02-04 10:58:27 Reply

My thoughts on some points that were brought up recently:

I'm not particularly fond of introducing huge amounts of protocol into the forum. The 'reading days' idea that was discussed is a nice one, but I think it's a bit overly idealistic at this stage, since we only have a small group of regulars and what's possibly an even smaller group of passer-byers. Now that the initial days of the forum have passed, people who just wanted something to do by writing up something in twenty minutes have moved on - it sounds harsh, but we knew it was going to happen, and I'm not pointing out anyone in particular. Any new ideas therefore, would be hard to adjust to for anyone outside of the regular group here, and I think that outside of establishing some formatting/posting guidelines, the forum's priority should be to engage with new users and develop its audience. It might take a while, but there are clear signs it will develop itself. I think that if we made things extremely systematic and complex, people will be turned off. After all, they could just go to FanFiction.net or FictionPress.com and post their stuff there easily without having to keep track of rituals and so on, and we want this forum to act as a place where people can develop their stuff, right?.

I know what you're all trying to accomplish with it though, because not enough reviews/comments are being left, and I'll admit that I've not really tried hard enough in promoting that. I still think some guidelines need to be stickied, like other forums have their own rules, and critiquing should be very much encouraged in what we put up there, if we ever decide on what else to stick in. People wouldn't be banned for not reviewing other people's work obviously, but it's all naturally a two-way street - after all that's established, it's down to us. While I've not posted anything creative up yet, I hope to return favours to reviewers. With any luck, I won't look like a huge hypocrite here.

The idea is that the forum and the portal will work together efficiently, like the art forum and portal. I'm not entirely certain about copyrights and so on (more than a few of you are probably familiar with Michael Danton's Fourth Perspective website, a place for writers to submit their material; similar issues were brought up by Sarai some time ago, so that discussion might be useful if you're wondering about how copyrights might work with the portal - and don't just read the first post like I did in '07), but I think the meat of what you really need to keep in mind is posted above: if you have an interested publisher, you should just ask them about issues that will be relevant to you having your material on Newgrounds. We're all concerned about authorship rights and credit, I know. While we can jump to conclusions now though, we'll probably just have to see how those issues pan out.

Out of interest, what do some of you mean when you refer to 'personal' stories, and these works not having a place in the forum or the future portal? I know that nothing you post here should simply be a glorified blog entry, but creative styles of non-fiction exist. What's more is that this 'genre' offers a huge range of styles for a huge range of topics. I know not everyone is into this sort of thing, but I think it's something that definitely has a place here as Coop pointed out with his journalism thread. I might even submit a few things there in a bit - I'd love to see that used a bit more.

It's like documentary filmmaking - the core of the whole form is that we assume what we're being told/shown has a degree of truth to it, but we can illustrate certain things ourselves to make it our telling of this 'truth'. Look at Bowling For Columbine: it's likely that a viewer is going to take on board simple statistics about gun murders worldwide, while also having information conveyed more creatively, like through animation or through sarcastic parodies. Even less direct documentaries have this: see Frederick Wiseman's High School: the film didn't just cut-to-black as the principal read a praising letter from a former student who was fighting in Vietnam by itself. The effect was meant to be mortifying, because that's the kind of guy Frederick Wiseman is. (See good old Wiki).

If what some of you mean by 'personal' stories is referring to supposedly meaningless thought, possibly characterised by a stream-of-consciousness style, then I think that has a place here too, but writing skillfully in these styles is by no means easy at all. Still, it's essentially what many examples of modernist/postmodern literature are. It's just not as easy to read, or easy to workshop for that matter. I know for a fact that quite a few people here detest some of these styles, and I know I certainly can't work quickly with them (I'm only slowly re-teaching myself Lyotard/Baudrillard concepts of meta-narrative and so on). I think they deserve a chance though.

Again, if I've gotten you guys wrong, call me out on it. It just interested me is all.

Deathcon7
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Response to Writing Forum Lounge 2010-02-04 23:13:03 Reply

I guess it all comes down to this, we should wait until the lit forum comes out to really worry about any level of critique. Not a problem, this serves as a nice base for the MWC and just writing in general.

One thing I've noticed however, is that people seem to be getting lost in obscurity when it comes to their poems. They write something completely obscure and keep running with it. Poetry should make sense at some level, but I'm reading pieces that are just so obviously intimate to the writer, but painfully ambiguous to the reader.

I hate the argument that poetry could be anything, I really do. Unless you're a master poet, or you know what you're doing, NO, anything is NOT poetry. Learn what you're doing before you try to freestyle about a cat chasing a ball of yarn that is your soul tortured by wall street's instability, all from the perspective of a blade of grass whose eyes can only see the color of your pain.

/rant

Oh, and read my flash fiction below. Less than 950 words total. It's easy. Go do it. You'll love it.
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Response to Writing Forum Lounge 2010-02-04 23:14:12 Reply

I meant the Lit Portal. And the statement was in reference to Scarab's post. Sorry for the double post, just wanted to clarify.

TrevorW
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Response to Writing Forum Lounge 2010-02-04 23:32:22 Reply

Check my poetry out Death :)


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Response to Writing Forum Lounge 2010-02-04 23:41:15 Reply

I've been thinking about this a little today. Even after the lit portal goes up, I'm sure that most people will want an editor, or at the very least an extra set of eyes, to look over their piece before they post it. Maybe it would be beneficial to have volunteer editors?

I'm about something were 2 people will get together, exchange their stories/poems/whatever, and each person can look over the other guys work, giving him notes, pointing out grammar errors and typos to be fixed. Pretty much a "you do mine, I'll do yours" type deal.

I'm up for it if anyone else is. If enough people are interested, I could start a thread.

Nateofwar
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Response to Writing Forum Lounge 2010-02-05 00:56:46 Reply

At 2/4/10 11:41 PM, Version2 wrote: I've been thinking about this a little today. Even after the lit portal goes up, I'm sure that most people will want an editor, or at the very least an extra set of eyes, to look over their piece before they post it. Maybe it would be beneficial to have volunteer editors?

I'm about something were 2 people will get together, exchange their stories/poems/whatever, and each person can look over the other guys work, giving him notes, pointing out grammar errors and typos to be fixed. Pretty much a "you do mine, I'll do yours" type deal.

I'm up for it if anyone else is. If enough people are interested, I could start a thread.

It's a good premise but if somone made a certain mistake in there work then there probably going to be more likely to not catch that mistake in your paper. It also brings up the question: If your good enough to proofread somone elses paper why not just do your owm?


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TrevorW
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Response to Writing Forum Lounge 2010-02-05 01:15:29 Reply

At 2/5/10 12:56 AM, Nateofwar wrote:
At 2/4/10 11:41 PM, Version2 wrote: I've been thinking about this a little today. Even after the lit portal goes up, I'm sure that most people will want an editor, or at the very least an extra set of eyes, to look over their piece before they post it. Maybe it would be beneficial to have volunteer editors?

I'm about something were 2 people will get together, exchange their stories/poems/whatever, and each person can look over the other guys work, giving him notes, pointing out grammar errors and typos to be fixed. Pretty much a "you do mine, I'll do yours" type deal.

I'm up for it if anyone else is. If enough people are interested, I could start a thread.
It's a good premise but if somone made a certain mistake in there work then there probably going to be more likely to not catch that mistake in your paper. It also brings up the question: If your good enough to proofread somone elses paper why not just do your owm?

I think being unable to proof read your own work comes from the fact that you have (hopefully) read it so many times that you know what you mean to say, regardless of what is actually there. The mind is an amazing thing! -- auto-correct.

Then again, if you really are going to be anal about perfection then hold onto it for a few weeks. Look at it every few days and each time a new perspective will be had. There comes a point in time where you are going to look at your work ojectively regardless of how attached to the words you have become.


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Response to Writing Forum Lounge 2010-02-05 01:21:04 Reply

At 2/5/10 12:56 AM, Nateofwar wrote:
It's a good premise but if somone made a certain mistake in there work then there probably going to be more likely to not catch that mistake in your paper. It also brings up the question: If your good enough to proofread somone elses paper why not just do your owm?

Because I'm biased towards my own work. And also because if I write something, I'm already familiar with it. If somebody else reads it, they are coming into it fresh, with no prior knowledge of what the story is. They are in a much better position to tell me whether or not what I wrote works.

Nateofwar
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Response to Writing Forum Lounge 2010-02-05 01:52:27 Reply

PST HEY GUYS.... Have a drama class and an "origional" monologue to preform? Well come plagurise this shit right here!

its good i got an A+ for it.

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aviewaskewed
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Response to Writing Forum Lounge 2010-02-05 02:31:33 Reply

From my rather limited understanding of copyright law: My understanding has been the author is considered to have proper rights over the work unless it can be proven the rights were transfered. IE, if I post something here on NG, and I can clearly prove I am the author of the work if challenged, I would be considered the copyright holder. Now if Tom Fulp could prove I sold him my interest in said story, or that the work was a "work for hire" (material done to Tom's specifications rather then original story and content brought to him) Tom is copyright holder. I'm sure it gets a little more complex then that but the nice thing about changes to copyright law over time is that it was done to hopefully make it easier for authors and their families to recover and profit from their creative endeavors.

Because let's face it, you never know what you have until it's published. Superman is one of the greatest pieces of American fiction ever created, it's made BILLIONS, but his creators sold that initial comic strip for about 130 dollars 1938 money.


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Response to Writing Forum Lounge 2010-02-05 04:00:50 Reply

At 2/5/10 02:31 AM, aviewaskewed wrote: Because let's face it, you never know what you have until it's published. Superman is one of the greatest pieces of American fiction ever created, it's made BILLIONS, but his creators sold that initial comic strip for about 130 dollars 1938 money.

And for those that don't want to think back that far, Fox let George Lucas control the merchandising for the Star Wars franchise. He's got copyright on the merchandise, but Fox still have the copyright on the films, since they were made for them.

Mind you, in the upper end of these sort of deals, we get shrouded in red tape and so forth.

In conclusion, if you're posting your own work, such as stories and the like, it might be better to keep a copy backed up on a CD or Flash Drive somewhere away from your computer, so that you've

a) got protection from fire, natural disaster etc

b) can show that the file was created on the [date] and hasn't been edited since.


Will it ever end. Yes, all human endeavour is pointless ~ Bill Bailey
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