At 3/28/09 12:55 PM, SuperMarioBrosS wrote: You know what? You shut up. Yes I know Sonic isn't the best but all the shit you said is an OPINION! You may think that Shadow The Hedgehog sucked ass but I found it enjoyable. Even Sonic 06 was enjoyable although it was the MOST ANNOYING game ever.

OPINION people, OPINION! Know what is an opinion and what is a fact dammit! Your thoughts will NEVER be a fact.

Okay, let's have a little class to make the difference between an OPINION and a FACT.

A FACT, is something that is undeniably true, like: Rocks are hard.

An OPINION is relevant to someone's tastes, like: I do not enjoy playing basketball.

I think you already knew that, but here is the thing.

A game, CAN be fucking bad even if you like it. Let's look at Sonic and the black knight.

1. 3 to 4 (maybe 5 max) hours of gameplay
2. repetitive combat and actions (you can just waggle and go forward, it's not very hard.
3. Horrible story: Oh a talking sword that can walk too, oh well let's go kill arthur while I get a golden shiny armor just because it's "cool".
4. Tacked on multiplayer that is undeniably horrible.

These are FACTS, that the last sonig game is bad or say, HIGHLY below the normal standard is a FACT.

Now that does not mean you cannot like this game, here is the OPINION part, now if I did not like the game, that is my OPINION, but when I say it is a bad game, it is true.

At 3/28/09 03:06 AM, knuxrouge wrote: Okay, I have a question, and I hope I can get an intelligent answer.

First, what is a Sonic fanboy?

Nobody here is calling the shots enough so that they can give an answer without immediate disagreement. I would like to think that they are the kind of person obsessed with the franchise like how you described it. This obviously doesn't work that way in this day and age because of how easy it is to hate on Sonic.

You'd think we could all band together in this Forum to get a unanimous opinion of what a fanboy is, but we can't. Because that idea just sounds "ghey".

while like any long running game series, it has it's hits and misses,

Yes, I can point out one or two things annoying or wrong with just about every series I've played.

but I enjoy it as a whole, and look forward to the next game(s).

Having not been able to play the Sonic games from age 4 to 10ish, and only owning two Sonic games that aren't on VC, I missed out on the apparent "horrors" of Shadow the Hedgehog, Sonic 06, and some other games. I don't share the same hate as other people, but I have seen that the Sonic games, do have things in common.

I'll be 20 in September, so don't play that 13/14 year old bull with me while answering.

Another reason of why I wish I were older. If I was 20, 40% of possible flames over the internet can be avoided because I wouldn't be a child.

At 3/28/09 10:25 AM, wegra2007 wrote:

At 3/22/09 05:41 PM, The-Great-One wrote: Sonic: Pros and Cons
by: wegra2007

*Gasp* Someone refrenced me! I'm famous! (sort of)

Luckyass.

At 3/28/09 12:55 PM, SuperMarioBrosS wrote: You know what? You shut up. Yes I know Sonic isn't the best but all the shit you said is an OPINION! You may think that Shadow The Hedgehog sucked ass but I found it enjoyable. Even Sonic 06 was enjoyable although it was the MOST ANNOYING game ever.

A game labeled to be the most annoying game ever (by you), is enjoyable by your standards? Hardly anybody here is flaming Sonic at all, you're swinging at thin air.

OPINION people, OPINION! Know what is an opinion and what is a fact dammit! Your thoughts will NEVER be a fact.

So a bunch of people in this thread give their opinions, and you rant on them saying that they find their opinions to be fact? How can we ever say anything about Sonic if you choose to shoot us down on sight? The second half to opinions, is knowing how to understand somebody elses.

At 3/28/09 01:11 PM, VenomKing666 wrote:

At 3/28/09 12:55 PM, SuperMarioBrosS wrote: You know what? You shut up. Yes I know Sonic isn't the best but all the shit you said is an OPINION! You may think that Shadow The Hedgehog sucked ass but I found it enjoyable. Even Sonic 06 was enjoyable although it was the MOST ANNOYING game ever.

OPINION people, OPINION! Know what is an opinion and what is a fact dammit! Your thoughts will NEVER be a fact.

Okay, let's have a little class to make the difference between an OPINION and a FACT.

A FACT, is something that is undeniably true, like: Rocks are hard.

?

Just...just stay in school.

An OPINION is relevant to someone's tastes, like: I do not enjoy playing basketball.

Basketball is a horrible sport. Not to mention it's racist to play if you're white. In this world at least.

These are FACTS, that the last sonig game is bad

Wrong. You used opinionated words like repetitive and horrible.

At 3/28/09 01:32 PM, Gustavos wrote: Basketball is a horrible sport. Not to mention it's racist to play if you're white. In this world at least.

You made it LOOK like a fact, but the only difference between your statement and a fact is that what you said is not true.

Wrong. You used opinionated words like repetitive and horrible.

Repetitive is an opiniated word now ? No, repetitive means "repetitive" wich is doing the same thing over and over again.

As for horriblr it was only used as a synonym of "bad", it is not more opiviated that "good" or "bad" when used as facts.

At 3/28/09 03:34 PM, VenomKing666 wrote:

At 3/28/09 01:32 PM, Gustavos wrote: Basketball is a horrible sport. Not to mention it's racist to play if you're white. In this world at least.

You made it LOOK like a fact, but the only difference between your statement and a fact is that what you said is not true.

Wrong. You used opinionated words like repetitive and horrible.

Repetitive is an opiniated word now ? No, repetitive means "repetitive" wich is doing the same thing over and over again.

As for horriblr it was only used as a synonym of "bad", it is not more opiviated that "good" or "bad" when used as facts.

Bah, I'm pointing out that you do not know the difference between fact and opinion. Fact is a truthful statement. That's all it is. You cannot deny facts. You can, but only in a literal sense. Thus, you are in denial that the sky is blue and that patch of grass is green.

Opinion is YOUR view. It is not truth, it is just your perspective. If you say this guy has a shitty face, there is still a chance that somebody will say otherwise (likely his mother). Opinionated words are almost always adjectives and adverbs, and all synonyms with the same meaning. They can also be names, like calling Dragoonwing a poopyhead. I think he's a poopyhead, but do you think he's a poopyhead? Probably not.

At 3/28/09 05:35 PM, Gustavos wrote: Bah, I'm pointing out that you do not know the difference between fact and opinion. Fact is a truthful statement. That's all it is. You cannot deny facts. You can, but only in a literal sense. Thus, you are in denial that the sky is blue and that patch of grass is green.

But the sky is not really blue and the grass is not really green in itself, it's you that percieve it this way and your brain that gives sense to it. I do know the difference between an opinion and a fact. Sonic and the black knight is a mediocre game like I said, and like I said it does not mean it is impossible to like it, because some people here obviously do. It is just less well made than other games. let's take the ultimate example: I say big riggs is a bad game, is it a fact or an opinion ?

Opinion is YOUR view. It is not truth, it is just your perspective. If you say this guy has a shitty face, there is still a chance that somebody will say otherwise (likely his mother).

I laughed, but I was not talking about my liking of the game, just that with the features and how it was made, it was bad, or "of a worse quality than most games" if you prefer.

Opinionated words are almost always adjectives and adverbs, and all synonyms with the same meaning. They can also be names, like calling Dragoonwing a poopyhead.

But he is a poopyhead. No seriously, take 2 tables, one is made by professionnals one is made by you and is almost about to break in pieces, can we say your table is worse and more shitty ? YES, but does it mean you hate your table ? No, you can say: Oh well, fuck you, it's a nice table, I made it myself. It's what I am trying to say here.

I think he's a poopyhead, but do you think he's a poopyhead? Probably not.

Everyone's a poopyhead, wait what does that means ?

I hate sonic team! There deadlines are freaking stupid, it's every six months! Sega would do better if it wasn't fer 'em and then they pay sega by a little bit! That way sega cant buy back sonic for themselves! so i mean sega-sonic=team sega making a good sonic game witch means sega= sonic game that took at least two years! that would be good fer em and boost up the reputation of them!

At 3/28/09 06:02 PM, VenomKing666 wrote:

At 3/28/09 05:35 PM, Gustavos wrote:

But the sky is not really blue and the grass is not really green in itself, it's you that percieve it this way and your brain that gives sense to it.

But it still appears blue or green to EVERYBODY except those that are color blind. And when it comes to factual statements, rare circumstances like some people being color blind, will not alter those statements. As less than 0.00005% of the world's population is colorblind. Colorblind is more rare than regular blind.

let's take the ultimate example: I say big riggs is a bad game, is it a fact or an opinion ?

Sorry, it's still an opinion (besides, I've never heard of big riggs). Basicly, you're trying to say that an opinion can be a fact if it is widely accepted. That may be how a hypothesis becomes a law, but not how opinion becomes fact.

I laughed, but I was not talking about my liking of the game, just that with the features and how it was made, it was bad, or "of a worse quality than most games" if you prefer.

Then that's fine. At least that means you would have reasons to back your own opinions.

But he is a poopyhead.

Oh god, I know. I thought I was the only one outside of the LOZ Twilight Princess discussions.

No seriously, take 2 tables, one is made by professionnals one is made by you and is almost about to break in pieces, can we say your table is worse and more shitty ? YES, but does it mean you hate your table ? No, you can say: Oh well, fuck you, it's a nice table, I made it myself. It's what I am trying to say here.

So in the situation of this thread, who exactly is the guy with the shitty table? Sega with their games?

Everyone's a poopyhead, wait what does that means ?

Well I'll be damned, I have no idear.

I agree with the OP and the others of this thread that agree with the OP.

Sonic Sucks. (TL;DR)

But, I have spent WEEKS giving these idiot fanboys a shitstrom to make them stop. I have worked with trolls and /b/tards, and sadly; they're still on here, bitchin' about me.

You guys can fight and try and make them shut the fuck up and get the fuck off, but these hard-headed and somewhat mentally retarded assholes can't take a hint.

If you do drive them back or find a way to DeviantART or wherever they came from, you'll have my full support. But for now, good luck. You're going to need it.

At 3/28/09 08:31 PM, Gustavos wrote: But it still appears blue or green to EVERYBODY except those that are color blind. And when it comes to factual statements, rare circumstances like some people being color blind, will not alter those statements. As less than 0.00005% of the world's population is colorblind. Colorblind is more rare than regular blind.

I see your point, but nonetheless, the sky is not blue, and I could say it's not really blue because it turns out to be orange at some point in the day, this is to prove that what people believe are "facts" arent always.

Sorry, it's still an opinion (besides, I've never heard of big riggs).

Haha, it's why you still think it's an opinion. : http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Big_Rigs
also vid: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mB1zWEhgr Ls

Basicly, you're trying to say that an opinion can be a fact if it is widely accepted. That may be how a hypothesis becomes a law, but not how opinion becomes fact.

No I never said that an opinion that is widely accepted is true, in fact I am greatly against that sort of reasoning as it is a logical fallacy, ad populum, wich basically says:"If alot of people believe X is true, then X is true" Of course ad populum is bullshit because even if everyone believed one thing to be true, it wouldnt be a proof for it to be true. Example: Earth is flat.

Then that's fine. At least that means you would have reasons to back your own opinions.

Yes, glad you see it, just look at the multiplayer, it is shamelessly tacked on.

So in the situation of this thread, who exactly is the guy with the shitty table? Sega with their games?

No, people that like the Black Knight games, maybe the example wasnt that great, but Sega would be a company that took the name of an old good company and used the name to sell their shitty tables.

Well I'll be damned, I have no idear.

Another unsolved mystery.

At 3/28/09 09:09 PM, VenomKing666 wrote: I see your point, but nonetheless, the sky is not blue, and I could say it's not really blue because it turns out to be orange at some point in the day, this is to prove that what people believe are "facts" arent always.

*head explodes*

Haha, it's why you still think it's an opinion. : http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Big_Rigs
also vid: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mB1zWEhgr Ls

Awesome. I wish I was a PC gamer.

Well, that game seems to be a severely unfinished beta of an otherwise average game. I can't tell if that would be opinion or fact.

No I never said that an opinion that is widely accepted is true, in fact I am greatly against that sort of reasoning as it is a logical fallacy, ad populum, wich basically says:"If alot of people believe X is true, then X is true" Of course ad populum is bullshit because even if everyone believed one thing to be true, it wouldnt be a proof for it to be true. Example: Earth is flat.

So you agree with me then?

No, people that like the Black Knight games, maybe the example wasnt that great, but Sega would be a company that took the name of an old good company and used the name to sell their shitty tables.

Sega (or the Sonic Team for this matter) must have had people come an go over the years changing up the animators, directors, and concept artists, but it's always been the same company. So who is this old good company?

Another unsolved mystery.

Who will save us?

OP:

Instead of talikng about it, talk to a site/Forum Moderator about what has you so upset. Explain to them calmly and without pointing fingers, tell them what you think is a problem on Newgrounds.
I know from experience that Tom Fulp actually Answers his mail. take action, not observation!

Gustovos v.s. Venomking has to be the longest thread battle I've seen...

At 3/28/09 11:51 PM, Gustavos wrote: *head explodes*

*gather head parts*

Awesome. I wish I was a PC gamer.
Well, that game seems to be a severely unfinished beta of an otherwise average game. I can't tell if that would be opinion or fact.

It looks like it but yet it was released that way, we can honestly say that this is a fucking bad ans shitty game, same for ET.

So you agree with me then?

About ad populum, yes.

Sega (or the Sonic Team for this matter) must have had people come an go over the years changing up the animators, directors, and concept artists, but it's always been the same company. So who is this old good company?

Old company is old sega, it had different employes, their goal was still to make money but they made fucking awesome games because they knew this way their customers would come abck. New company is new sonic team, obviously different people, all they do is release a, let's just say an ordinary games with no really great feature each 6 months and then add sonic on it to make some cash. Sonic has become the biggest cash cow of the industry, by "biggest" I mean the franchise used it the most as a cash cow, in fact we could say Sonic is used solely as a cash cow.

Who will save us?

Not Sonic.

At 3/29/09 01:42 PM, VenomKing666 wrote:

At 3/28/09 11:51 PM, Gustavos wrote: *head explodes*

*gather head parts*

Oh, thanks. Wait, where'd my left ear go? *squish sound* F***!

Great, I'm half deaf, and now I lost an ear. I'm three quarters deaf.

About ad populum, yes.

So den we koo?

Seriously though, there is nothing left to quote with a further arguement. How did we start this anyway?

Old company is old sega, it had different employes, their goal was still to make money but they made fucking awesome games because they knew this way their customers would come abck. New company is new sonic team, obviously different people, all they do is release a, let's just say an ordinary games with no really great feature each 6 months and then add sonic on it to make some cash. Sonic has become the biggest cash cow of the industry, by "biggest" I mean the franchise used it the most as a cash cow, in fact we could say Sonic is used solely as a cash cow.

What about Sonic RPG? I've yet to try it, but it doesn't sound that bad. Sonic being in an RPG game isn't solely for raking in cash, it's actually a fairly original idea. And hard to beleive that was his 3rd most recent game when we were only getting trailers of it over the summer if I remember.

Who will save us?

Not Sonic.

Yeah, screw him. I bet right now he's too busy riding a horse in his next game with an awesome cowboy hat. And as awesome as the hat might be, I still would not be intoxicated by the new gimmick.

Sonic: Hedgehog of the West. Coming summer of 2009.

At 3/29/09 06:44 AM, MEPHILIS1337 wrote: Gustovos v.s. Venomking has to be the longest thread battle I've seen...

FFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFF FFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFF

You've have to have seen arguements go longer than 12ish posts. I've been in ones twice as long around the time you signed up. In a certain thread that deserves to be a part of NG BBS history. Reaching 50 pages only to get locked in the end, the people who were a big part of this thread (I can only remember five names including myself), will never forget what we've learned.

Now please...leave an old man to his memories...

At 3/29/09 06:05 PM, Gustavos wrote: What about Sonic RPG? I've yet to try it, but it doesn't sound that bad. Sonic being in an RPG game isn't solely for raking in cash, it's actually a fairly original idea. And hard to beleive that was his 3rd most recent game when we were only getting trailers of it over the summer if I remember.

Like that new Sonic and the shadow thing that came out for the DS ?

It's not made by sonic team lol.

At 3/29/09 06:46 PM, VenomKing666 wrote:

At 3/29/09 06:05 PM, Gustavos wrote: What about Sonic RPG? I've yet to try it, but it doesn't sound that bad. Sonic being in an RPG game isn't solely for raking in cash, it's actually a fairly original idea. And hard to beleive that was his 3rd most recent game when we were only getting trailers of it over the summer if I remember.

Like that new Sonic and the shadow thing that came out for the DS ?

It's not made by sonic team lol.

Oh yeah...

Hahahahahahaha.

So yes, Sonic is a cash cow. That doesn't mean his new games are or always will be bad, but that won't change how cheap the Sonic Team is. But then again, what can they do with Sonic that won't piss us off? By "us" I mean the older Sonic fans from the Hizzay, who would rather dispose of Sonic's endless continues. But let's be a bit more rational (whatever the hell that's supposed to mean).

If Sonic just died, imagine how butthurt the newer Sonic fans would be. And although they spend more time in the shadows of anime sites, they do outnumber the older ones. Not only would they rampage the streets, but we would keep hearing their whining for years to come. So how can we make both sides happy or at least nuetral?

PfffffffffftHAHAHAAHHAHAHAHAHAHAAH

This is NG, not your friendly kids site. Mods don't give a flying fuck about what YOU think is a problem on NG.

THIS is SPARTAAAA!!!!! (aka Newgrounds)

At 3/30/09 01:10 AM, Gustavos wrote: So yes, Sonic is a cash cow. That doesn't mean his new games are or always will be bad,

Indeed, but it most likely means that Sonic Team dosen't care if it's not good or if it is flawed..

but that won't change how cheap the Sonic Team is. But then again, what can they do with Sonic that won't piss us off? By "us" I mean the older Sonic fans from the Hizzay, who would rather dispose of Sonic's endless continues. But let's be a bit more rational (whatever the hell that's supposed to mean).

Oh I am an old Sonic fan too, My first game ever was Sonic 2, shit was awesome.

Also how would I bring back Sonic ?

First: This motherfucker comes back: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NUa8DLg1T CE

Then make large levels that allow lots of free roaming and ten add long roads to sprint (think of a plain similar to the one in the Sonic CD intro., give sonic's the ability to do tricks like wallrun and to jump up on walls, walljump etc.

If Sonic just died, imagine how butthurt the newer Sonic fans would be. And although they spend more time in the shadows of anime sites, they do outnumber the older ones. Not only would they rampage the streets, but we would keep hearing their whining for years to come. So how can we make both sides happy or at least nuetral?

Oh bawwww, they won't be unable to draw their mary sue sonic ORIGINAL CHARACTER DO NOT STEAL.

These guys are the main reason why Sonic died, they would just cry endlessly, they wouldn't do anything else really.

Sorry, but to me, Sonic is the most boring animated creature I've ever seen. That has to be said. What makes him so special? You could also love an animated cow...

At 3/30/09 11:00 AM, AXOZ wrote: Sorry, but to me, Sonic is the most boring animated creature I've ever seen. That has to be said. What makes him so special? You could also love an animated cow...

Did you play Genesis Sonic games ? back in the day ?

Shit was fun.

Umm sonic actually was pretty full of character, for someone on a genesis. Compared to the Crash bandicoot ( who was pretty mentally ill ) sonic seemed pretty damned lovable

At 3/30/09 10:51 AM, VenomKing666 wrote: Indeed, but it most likely means that Sonic Team dosen't care if it's not good or if it is flawed..

I have noticed their habit of that. In any Sonic game, I just want to throw the controller at the screen after watching the ridiculously cheap ways I die.

Oh I am an old Sonic fan too, My first game ever was Sonic 2, shit was awesome.

Thank god for Virtual Console. Or I wouldn't remember anything about the game during my six months or so of playing the Genesis we had until it broke.

Also how would I bring back Sonic ?

First: This motherfucker comes back: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NUa8DLg1T CE

I don't remember much of the older cartoon, but what I do remember was pretty awesome. Have you seen the last scene of this movie? It sums up what should happen. And did he really come back in the Sonic X show?

Then make large levels that allow lots of free roaming and ten add long roads to sprint (think of a plain similar to the one in the Sonic CD intro., give sonic's the ability to do tricks like wallrun and to jump up on walls, walljump etc.

Sonic ran on walls and jumped off them in Unleashed. Not to mention Wall jumping is more or less a ripoff of Mario. But I've yet to play a Sonic game where you don't have a single path to follow.

Oh bawwww, they won't be unable to draw their mary sue sonic ORIGINAL CHARACTER DO NOT STEAL.

These guys are the main reason why Sonic died, they would just cry endlessly, they wouldn't do anything else really.

I'm not saying they don't deserve it, but wouldn't you feel just a little sad you won't be seeing the hedgehog anymore? It's kind of hard to live under the consensus of "good riddance". I got Sonic Unleashed on Wii. I have to say it's pretty good. I sort of doubt I'll play through it all again though, and instead only replay Sonic levels and some of the less annoying Werehog levels. I'm debating on whether or not I should sell it one day, but I had fun. Though I can see where Sega rushed or just completely been lazyasses (in the end, there was one Sonic level, and five Werehog levels).

At 3/30/09 04:29 AM, No08PwN3R1337 wrote:
THIS is SPARTAAAA!!!!! (aka Newgrounds)

STFU noob.

I feel so god damn big by saying that.

Locked by Request.