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The History Crew

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Response to The History Crew 2009-03-24 16:39:01


The 60's and 70's fundamentally changed the world we live in. Vietnam is still a war we don't understand, it's veterans still underappreciated. Social norms in America and really around the world were changed, so to discuss the 70's, you're going to have to narrow down your subject matter to something more narrow, like say:
Why was Vietnam such an unpopular war?
Why were soldiers treated so despicably?
How has it changed social norms?
How is that all these world changing events coincided in such a small period of time?
Those are just a few. Vietnam and the 70's in general are such expansive topics, it's impossible to talk about them without breaking them down into more managable sub-groups.
Oh, and the three guys who posted before me are in.


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Response to The History Crew 2009-03-24 17:43:05


Patton3, leeme answer those questions for ya ;)
Why was Vietnam such an unpopular war?
Because of out unneeded involvement with the war, our awful and inhumane tactics, and the destruction and death the war caused on both sides, as well as the loss of the war. The United States felt it should involve itself in this war because this war was, in political terms, Democracy vs. Communism, and the U.S. major policy at the time was to spread democracy and abolish communism. Gotta love Cold War paranoia :I. Awful and humane tactics were used to ensure victory. These include the use of incredibly toxic and dangerous chemical agents such as Agent Orange, which destroyed all foliage and has been proven to cause a number of malformities in the human body, as such cases have been documented within the U.S. Other events inluded the brutal pillaging of casual, neutral village, the mass murder of civiliaans, and horrible acts committed to the civilians. However, it was not just the U.S. who used dirty tricks. Suicide bombers also came about during the Vietnam War. Fianlly, and possible most importantly, was the outcome of the war and its' casualties. Millions upon millions were ravaged on both sides for a war we didn't even belong in, and still today people are being infected by the incedious acts committed druing the Vietnam War. All of this was augmented by our loss of the war, providing NO justice within the war in the eyes of the American people.
Why were soldiers treated so despicably?
Soldiers were treaty so despicably because they were a dime a dozen in the wrong cash register ;). The soldiers on both sides, but mostly the North Korean side, were in such supply and filled with such vigor the war would seem to never end. All North viatnamese were considered the enemy, and beconming a soldier only meant you were helping extend the war and the misery. Also, Americans didn't blong there and only help generate more casualties, thus inticing a great amount of resent from both sides of the war.
How has it changed social norms?
Societyy regards war as much more sever now. War is hated, and is very rarely used as a foreign policy any more. Also, people regard human rights more. When they witnessed the horrors of the Vietnam war, the injustices enacted upon the Vietnamese, they felt a compassion for them and a burning hate towards those who committed the actions. Thus, the people regarded upholding human decisions and rights much more seriously, leading to the current regard for them today.
How is that all these world changing events coincided in such a small period of time?
These world changing events occurred so quickly because so much killing, destruction, injustice and hatred grew in such a short time, that it rocked the American people right off of their feet. A rush fo atrosity woke the Americans to a frightening start, shoving the world probllems right in their faces and calling them to bat. Thus, the Americans decided to revert the horros they committed and resolve the conflict they had created, making more steps to the recognition iof human rights and respecting oother nations' ideas and positions on current world conflicts.
My. Arm. HURTS!

Response to The History Crew 2009-03-24 18:00:55


At 3/24/09 05:43 PM, Ninja-Without-Sight wrote: Patton3, leeme answer those questions for ya ;)

You're gonna hate me for this, but I wasn't really looking for answers, just suggestng more narrow topics for discussion. To talk about all the aspects of the 70's and/or Vietnam is a lot to take on for a forum discuusion, as you've seen.
Although I did read all that. My. Eyes. HURT! :-)


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Response to The History Crew 2009-03-24 18:02:52


Oh and, wait a sec. North Korean? I think you mean North Vietnamese and the Viet Kong there Ninja.


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Response to The History Crew 2009-03-24 18:20:22


Whoops. I guess your facts get hazy after writing a lot. But, since I started the thing, can we answer those questions?

Response to The History Crew 2009-03-25 00:21:31


you can, but you should stay on the same time period. Or the same place at least lol

Response to The History Crew 2009-03-25 22:35:59


^
I
First post, new topic.

I know, arrow failed D:

Response to The History Crew 2009-03-25 22:50:14


Why was Vietnam such an unpopular war?
Why were soldiers treated so despicably?
How has it changed social norms?
How is that all these world changing events coincided in such a small period of time?

Sorry, thought this was the first post :)

Response to The History Crew 2009-03-25 23:03:10


No problem. I'm tired too, but homework drags me down :(. Answer whenever ready though :D!

Response to The History Crew 2009-03-26 15:11:45


Why was Vietnam such an unpopular war?

The media

Why were soldiers treated so despicably?

The yellow media

How has it changed social norms?

Along with the Civil Rights campaigns of the 1960s, one of the most divisive forces in twentieth-century U.S. history. The antiwar movement actually consisted of a number of independent interests, often only vaguely allied and contesting each other on many issues, united only in opposition to the Vietnam War. Attracting members from college campuses, middle-class suburbs, labor unions, and government institutions, the movement gained national prominence in 1965, peaked in 1968, and remained powerful throughout the duration of the conflict. Encompassing political, racial, and cultural spheres, the antiwar movement exposed a deep schism within 1960s American society.

How is that all these world changing events coincided in such a small period of time?

The people were more connected, they had ideals. They felt the had a purpose.

The question is do we fell that way now?

Response to The History Crew 2009-03-26 17:18:17


About the Vietnam war: Does anyone think of anyway the U.S. finally losing a war change the way we view America in any way?

Response to The History Crew 2009-03-26 18:04:46


At 3/26/09 05:18 PM, aninjaman wrote: About the Vietnam war: Does anyone think of anyway the U.S. finally losing a war change the way we view America in any way?

I think Vietnam changed the way we see America in, primarily, two ways:
1. We lost trust in our government
2. We saw that America isn't always right, isn't always the "good guy"


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Response to The History Crew 2009-03-26 19:23:08


At 3/26/09 06:04 PM, Patton3 wrote: I think Vietnam changed the way we see America in, primarily, two ways:
1. We lost trust in our government

That was more Nixon in general though.

2. We saw that America isn't always right, isn't always the "good guy"

But many people still believe America was in the right in the Vietnam war. We just lost.

Response to The History Crew 2009-03-26 19:42:56


At 3/26/09 07:23 PM, aninjaman wrote:
At 3/26/09 06:04 PM, Patton3 wrote: I think Vietnam changed the way we see America in, primarily, two ways:
1. We lost trust in our government
That was more Nixon in general though.

Don't undermine LBJ. And it wasn't the war itself per say, just that it is the primary way to identify the era we're talking about here.


2. We saw that America isn't always right, isn't always the "good guy"
But many people still believe America was in the right in the Vietnam war. We just lost.

Once again, I think Vietnam really unveiled some of our government's more underhanded tactics. Not that everything which led to a lot of lost faith in government was directly tied to that war, just the general time period.


If life gives you lemons, read the fine print; chances are, there's a monthly fee attached.

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Response to The History Crew 2009-03-31 17:49:50


At 3/31/09 04:47 PM, Eman110 wrote: I DECLARE THIS THREAD UNDEAD!

Declaring doesn't mean shit.
You acually have to start and contribute to a discussion.

Response to The History Crew 2009-03-31 18:29:17


K then fuck this crew

kbye

Anyway, let's discuss Chamberlain's policy of appeasement.

Does anyone believe that it was the right - or only - thing to do?


GT - LedgeyNG, Steam - Ledgey91, PSN - LedgeyNG

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Response to The History Crew 2009-03-31 19:11:01


At 3/31/09 06:29 PM, Ledgey wrote: Anyway, let's discuss Chamberlain's policy of appeasement.

Does anyone believe that it was the right - or only - thing to do?

Neither. I can see how it seemed like a good idea at the time (WW1 was such a short time ago) but as you and I know it didn't accomplish anything. Hitler kept going and killed Czech and Polish civilians basically handed over to him by Britian.
Not that appeasement doesn't ever work or help.

Response to The History Crew 2009-03-31 20:10:24


ooohh, Joseph Chamberlain.
Personally, I think he made his decisions out of fear and ignorence. See, though WWI was only a short time ago, it was completly irrelevant. Germany was torn apart at the seams. When Hitler took over Austria, he shoulda been there. When he militarized the Rhineland he shoulda been there. However, I'll kinda let him slide. It was on the opposite side of the continent, given.
But when he allowed the German navy and airforce to form, that was like a giant facepalm to Versailles and Locarno. He could've stopped WWII right there. But he was incompetent. He was timid. He was the utter epitomy of weak. Not to say France couldn't be blamed, but Britain had the navy, Britain was closer, and Britain is our topic right now ;).

Kinda short, but gets the point across

Response to The History Crew 2009-04-02 15:10:23


At 3/31/09 06:29 PM, Ledgey wrote:
K then fuck this crew
kbye

Anyway, let's discuss Chamberlain's policy of appeasement.

Does anyone believe that it was the right - or only - thing to do?

Correct me if I'm wrong, but you mean Neville Chamberlain, British PM prior to WWII, right?
Anyway, the appeasment policy in this time period probably looked good. The world was still weary from WWI, and Neville either never really saw the big picture of what Hitler was doing, or didn't want to achknowledge it. Judging from some quotes by him, such as when he said "They're merely moving into their own back garden" in response to Hitlers reoccupation of the Rhineland. I think he didn't see Hitler's actions as having any major effect. Even when Hitler went so far as to demand the Sudetenland.
By the way, thanks for bringing up a topic about Britain. Looking back, most topics have had to do with the United States.


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Response to The History Crew 2009-04-02 16:51:10


Hello there. I'm a very keen history buff and would like to join.

At 3/25/09 10:50 PM, Ninja-Without-Sight wrote: Why was Vietnam such an unpopular war?

Well defending a dictatorship like South Vietnam wasn't exactly easy to justify. Neither was introducing conscription in a nation that's Ideology expouse freedom and individuality.

Why were soldiers treated so despicably?

Well most were poorly trained conscripts who were often given drugs as a policy to provide incentives and combat enhancers. One of my distant cousins took part in the war with the Australian expeditions, He came back with a severe drug addiction he developed in the barracks. He is now bi polar and has been sectioned for repeated assault of his father. Sadly he is not an isolated case.

Then there is the issue of what they were actually doing in Vietnam. While its a stretch to say every soldier was a rapist and baby killer, the Zippo patrols that burnt villages to the ground. Or the official policy to "concentrate the populations" into more manageable sectors. And of course using chemical weaponry.

How has it changed social norms?

My Nation declared neutrality so I'm afraid I wouldn't know. Though I'd imagine the same thing that happens when ever a power loses a war. The death of deference to the political elite, and a greater popularity of scrutiny.

How is that all these world changing events coincided in such a small period of time?

Sorry, thought this was the first post :)
At 3/25/09 10:50 PM, Ninja-Without-Sight wrote: Why was Vietnam such an unpopular war?
Why were soldiers treated so despicably?
How has it changed social norms?
How is that all these world changing events coincided in such a small period of time?

Sorry, thought this was the first post :)
At 3/24/09 06:02 PM, Patton3 wrote: Oh and, wait a sec. North Korean? I think you mean North Vietnamese and the Viet Kong there Ninja.

Actually there was no Viet Kong also it was spelt with a C. There real name was the National Liberation Front of Ho Chi Minh though usually just the NLF. The term Viet Cong was a CIA invention as they found fighting against a National Liberation Front would undermine the War Effort.

Response to The History Crew 2009-04-03 12:10:03


Members List(damn, we're gettin' big):
Patton3
DeathNoteetoMhtaeD
Ship
sumidiotdude
startreeflash
aninjaman
turtleaja
vdviking
Ledgey
SapphireLight
AniMetal
Matt2k8
GodsBitch
TheOriginalReference
jjrmet
Griffinite
Limited-Edition
TheDarkDealer
FC-Thun-Fan
OverCynicalBlasphemy
youngblood26
vago187
sirtom93
Ninja-Without-Sight
Eman110
ArmouredGriffon
Roflaura
RedGlare


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Response to The History Crew 2009-04-03 12:52:24


Count me In on this .


In order to become a Leader... U must first serve as a follower

History Crew

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Response to The History Crew 2009-04-03 13:36:39


I've got a good Non-U.S. question.
Was dropping the nuclear bomb on Nagasaki and Hiroshima ethical?
One non-history question: Is there some sort of rank system/ food chain here? ;)

Response to The History Crew 2009-04-03 13:44:57


wow ive been inactive in this club. 2 things...

1.) concernin the collab i have an idea, but im not sure whether it fits the theme. settlers turfing out the indians in america and showing them after their 'eviction'. i know im takin a risk in sayin this, so nobody steal it! or youll have words to say with my deagle...
2.) seein as we're getting more members, maybe we should have ranks according to time periods, like 'neanderthal' and 'knight' etc.


The French Resistance: An oxymoron if ever there was one.

Ohai, its my DeviantArt and Youtube!

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Response to The History Crew 2009-04-04 12:30:38


wow I'd have to look into your question ^^^^^^^^^^^ Thats intense.. .where did u come up with that from?


In order to become a Leader... U must first serve as a follower

History Crew

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Response to The History Crew 2009-04-04 16:34:59


At 4/4/09 12:30 PM, WildCatzTy wrote: wow I'd have to look into your question ^^^^^^^^^^^ Thats intense.. .where did u come up with that from?

What questions are you talking about?

Response to The History Crew 2009-04-04 18:01:23


The year is 2040.
China has stopped all its trade with major countries such as us. How do u Work out treaties and such with a Giant Corrupt Country such as it.


In order to become a Leader... U must first serve as a follower

History Crew

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Response to The History Crew 2009-04-04 18:09:16


At 4/4/09 06:01 PM, WildCatzTy wrote: The year is 2040.
China has stopped all its trade with major countries such as us. How do u Work out treaties and such with a Giant Corrupt Country such as it.

Why would China stop trade when it has a largely export economy? Thats biting the hand that feeds.

Response to The History Crew 2009-04-04 21:34:05


At 4/4/09 06:01 PM, WildCatzTy wrote: The year is 2040.
China has stopped all its trade with major countries such as us. How do u Work out treaties and such with a Giant Corrupt Country such as it.

What? 2040 what? I thought this was the history crew. Not the mindless New World Order conspiracy and speculation crew.

Response to The History Crew 2009-04-05 12:51:58


Hey, Catz? Stay away from future speculation stuff. China as a topic is fine, so long as it is historical. As for ranking members...any ideas?


If life gives you lemons, read the fine print; chances are, there's a monthly fee attached.

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