At 12/26/12 12:53 PM, TheMaster wrote: If you've seen The Menagerie you've basically seen The Cage anyway. All the flashback stuff in that is just clips from The Cage.

Yea, that's pretty much why I didn't bother. I knew it was very similar. Plus, when I skimmed through the extended episode, I noticed parts of it were in black and white which was a tad off-putting at the time.

The first film is pretty long and drawn out. It's main failing is that some bigwig at Paramount at the time thought, we spent the most money on the effects, so the effects get a lot more screentime than needed. The scene of Kirk appoaching the ENterpise in the shuttlecraft is worth watching though.

ST2, The Wrath of Khan is probably still the best TOS movie ever. I recommend you watch the episode "Space Seed" again before watching ST2. Khan's motives are better understood.

STIII is pretty melodramatic and it starts right where ST2 left off.

ST4 is probably the funniest ST movie, even out of ALL the ST movies, and probably the best money maker (adjusted for inflation). Kirk and Co. in the mid-80s is a pretty hilarious premise.

STV is WIlliam Shatner's directorial debut, it's also the only movie in the ST franchise that didn't employ the effects company Industrial Light and Magic (they were on strike). It's pretty much the cheesiest of the TOS movies.

ST6 was directed by the same guy who directed ST2 (Nicholas Meyer), so it's a dark and nitty gritty. It's the darkest film of the ToS movies, and is second to Wrath of Khan in terms of plot quality (maybe even better). There's political intrigue ^.~!

You know, I'd almost recommend you skip the first ToS movie. You won't miss any important character development.

At 12/26/12 03:43 PM, BrokenDeck wrote: You know, I'd almost recommend you skip the first ToS movie. You won't miss any important character development.

It might be a bit baggy, but there's still plenty to like in TMP. I definitely wouldn't skip it.

At 12/26/12 03:43 PM, BrokenDeck wrote: You know, I'd almost recommend you skip the first ToS movie. You won't miss any important character development.

If anything, skip The Final Frontier. I haven't seen it in years.

I wasn't a big fan of Generations either. I hated the way they *SPOLIERALERTSPOLIERALERTSPOLIERALERTSPOLIERALERTSPOLIERALER TSPOLIERALERTSPOLIERALERTSPOLIERALERTSPOLIERALERTSPOLIERALER T* killed Kirk in that movie.

Now, First Contact was fantastic. Second only to the Wrath of the Khan imo.

This brings up the question... how would you rank the Star Trek films? I'd say:

1. The Wrath of Khan
2. First Contact
3. Star Trek (2009)
4. Undiscovered Country
5. Voyage Home
6. Search for Spock
7. Insurrection
8. Nemesis
9. Motion Picture
10. Generations
11. Final Frontier

At 12/27/12 04:23 PM, Frenzy wrote: If anything, skip The Final Frontier. I haven't seen it in years.

Nah man, it's camp and ridiculous, and loads of fun. It's by no means a good film, but it's entertaining as fuck.

This brings up the question... how would you rank the Star Trek films? I'd say:

1. The Wrath of Khan
2. The Voyage Home
3. The Undiscovered Country
4. The Search For Spock
5. The Motion Picture
6. The Final Frontier
7. First Contact
8. Star Trek '09
9. Generations
10. Insurrection
11. Nemesis

The TNG films really don't work for me. You can't put Captain Picard in an action movie, it's just silly. He's at his best giving speeches and doing diplomacy, not gunning down Borg with a machine gun.

The only character they really serve well is Data. Everyone else either doesn't get to play to their strengths, or are just underused.

Here's my rankings of the best Trek Films.

1. Tie between The Wrath of Khan & The Undiscovered Country
2. The Search For Spock
3. The Voyage Home
4. First Contact
5. The Motion Picture
6. The Final Frontier
7. Generations
8. Insurrection
9. Nemesis
10. Star Trek '09

Gene Roddenberry would turn over in his grave if he saw JJ Abraham's laughable interpretation of the Trek Universe. A "sex & shooting" action movie would be the last thing Roddenberry would have wanted.

Just had my first encounter with the Borg. I'm looking forward to seeing more of them. They definitely seem like the most interesting of the alien races I've seen so far.

I'm really enjoying TNG by the way. It has a different feel to TOS but it's just as entertaining. Currently not too far off finishing season 2.

At 1/5/13 04:46 PM, Dean wrote: Just had my first encounter with the Borg. I'm looking forward to seeing more of them. They definitely seem like the most interesting of the alien races I've seen so far.

I'm really enjoying TNG by the way. It has a different feel to TOS but it's just as entertaining. Currently not too far off finishing season 2.

If you're enjoying it already, you're going to love season 3 onwards.

There's a production shuffling with a new head writer and less input from Roddenberry, and a shift away from one-off monster of the week episodes into more stuff featuring the familiar Alpha Quadrant species.

It's also the first series Ronald D. Moore wrote for, and for my money he's the best Trek writer ever. He came into TNG and wrote a ton of good Klingon-centric episodes, and then became involved with Deep Space Nine on a higher level and influenced the darker, more arc-based direction of that show.

At 1/5/13 04:54 PM, TheMaster wrote: There's a production shuffling with a new head writer and less input from Roddenberry, and a shift away from one-off monster of the week episodes into more stuff featuring the familiar Alpha Quadrant species.

I'd definitely welcome that change. I guess something that I like about Star Trek is that while it's obviously all just science-fiction, they do a good job at making a lot of it seem as though it could be real. At least, to me they do. Like when Picard has to go for this cardiac replacement, I initially thought that was a legit medical operation until I Googled it and the first link was to a Star Trek wiki. I felt a little stupid after that haha. But every now and then there are little things that, to me, make it seem a little less believable. Like in Samaritan Snare (same episode as the cardiac replacement actually), when Geordi is "repairing" the Pakleds' ship, he pulls out a circuit board that's obviously very late 80's / early 90's looking. I can't imagine they'd be using technology like that in the future. It doesn't ruin the feeling of the episode or anything, but I always find it a little amusing.

Alright, what's everyone favourite Star Trek episode of all time?

I have to give this one some thought lol..

I've only seen most of The Original Series and up to season four of Next Generation but I'm not sure if I could pick out a favourite episode. They were all pretty good and nothing stands out in my mind as being significantly better than the rest. I always find it pretty hard to pick favourites of anything though.

Still tempted to buy all the movies though, excluding the latest since it's not part of the box set. Just struggling to convince myself to part with the £40.

At 1/23/13 10:05 PM, Frenzy wrote: Alright, what's everyone favourite Star Trek episode of all time?

I have to give this one some thought lol..

Toss up between In The Pale Moonlight and The Visitor.

Quite the cliff hanger in TNG at the end of season three. Good thing I can just pop in the season four DVD and find out what happens. I'd have been a bit annoyed if I was watching this as it was being aired on TV and having to wait several months to find out what happens next. Hell, I'd be impatient having to wait a week (or however often the episodes were released) between episodes. I don't think I've ever enjoyed a TV show as much as I'm enjoying Star Trek.

At 1/26/13 03:54 PM, Dean wrote: Quite the cliff hanger in TNG at the end of season three.

There's a reason for that. They weren't sure if Patrick Stewart was going to come back for season 4. With that cliffhanger, they could kill him off if necessary.

At 1/26/13 04:04 PM, TheMaster wrote: There's a reason for that. They weren't sure if Patrick Stewart was going to come back for season 4. With that cliffhanger, they could kill him off if necessary.

Well I'm glad we got more than 3 seasons worth of Patrick Stewart. I think I now prefer him over Kirk in honesty but I don't think any character will ever top Spock or McCoy. I might be proven wrong later but it seems likely they'll remain my favourite Star Trek characters.

At 1/26/13 07:37 PM, Dean wrote: Well I'm glad we got more than 3 seasons worth of Patrick Stewart. I think I now prefer him over Kirk in honesty but I don't think any character will ever top Spock or McCoy. I might be proven wrong later but it seems likely they'll remain my favourite Star Trek characters.

If you've not seen the films yet you've still got them at their best yet to watch. Kirk is also way more interesting in the films than in the show. Having him deal getting old is much more interesting than just having him as an adventuring lady's man.

The TOS crew is definitely my favourite.

At 1/26/13 08:02 PM, TheMaster wrote: Kirk is also way more interesting in the films than in the show.

My problem with Kirk is that I find him to be... arrogant I guess. I say Kirk, but I'm referring to William Shatner too. I watched random interviews with Shatner, NImoy and DeForest just to get an idea of what the actors were like. Nimoy and DeForest seem like genuinely nice people but I couldn't help feel that Shatner is a bit too full of himself. It made me look at Kirk in a bit of a different light.

As for the movies, I literally just ordered the box set now because of your post. I've really been wanting to see them but I've been holding off on buying them for no real reason. 10 films for £41 isn't such a bad deal I guess. I'm a bit annoyed that Amazon have bumped up the prices of the TV series box sets though. I'd like to get the complete Voyager set at some point too (not too bothered about Enterprise right now) but they've knocked it up about £40 since December. I'll just keep my eyes peeled in case it falls in price again. It'll still be a while before I'm done with TNG and DS9 anyway.

Am I a fully fledged Trekkie yet?

At 1/26/13 08:35 PM, Dean wrote: Am I a fully fledged Trekkie yet?

Nah, you've not watched "Threshold" yet. You still have to suffer like the rest of us did.

"Remember Me" was certainly an interesting episode. I think I actually started to feel more isolated as Dr. Crusher did. There was just something odd about the idea of an empty Enterprise. The Traveller is a pretty interesting character too.

At 1/26/13 08:47 PM, TheMaster wrote:

At 1/26/13 08:35 PM, Dean wrote: Am I a fully fledged Trekkie yet?

Nah, you've not watched "Threshold" yet. You still have to suffer like the rest of us did.

Lol, don't even remind me. SUCH a bad episode. Though the Enterprise finale was terrible as well. And "A Night in Sickbay," also from Enterprise.

At 1/29/13 04:42 PM, Frenzy wrote: Though the Enterprise finale was terrible as well.

I know it had been 11 years, but christ,

At 1/26/13 08:47 PM, TheMaster wrote: Nah, you've not watched "Threshold" yet. You still have to suffer like the rest of us did.

I'll get around to it eventually. Still keeping an eye on the complete Voyager set on Amazon but I'm not prepared to pay their current asking price, £85, when I got TNG and DS9 for £15-20 less. Although I just noticed that Amazon UK currently aren't selling the complete TNG set because:

"This product is not currently offered by Amazon.co.uk because a customer recently told us that the item he or she received was not as described. We are working to resolve this as quickly as possible. In the meantime, you may still find this product available from other sellers on this page."

Never seen that before.

The Star Trek: Legends of The Final Frontier Collection that I ordered arrived today. I'd read that the box itself was quite an awkward size and I see what they meant. It does feel pretty massive when you consider that there's 11 discs in it compared to the complete series sets which have up to 50 discs yet take up about half the space. Still, better to have the movies in actual DVD cases because after all the reviews about the complete series sets, I'm always paranoid that I scratch a disc when I take it out of the cardboard sleeve.

Oh well, at least I can finally watch the TOS films. Should I wait until I've completed TNG before watching the TNG films?

At 2/1/13 06:13 AM, Dean wrote: The Star Trek: Legends of The Final Frontier Collection that I ordered arrived today. I'd read that the box itself was quite an awkward size and I see what they meant. It does feel pretty massive when you consider that there's 11 discs in it compared to the complete series sets which have up to 50 discs yet take up about half the space. Still, better to have the movies in actual DVD cases because after all the reviews about the complete series sets, I'm always paranoid that I scratch a disc when I take it out of the cardboard sleeve.

All my Trek DVDs are in those slim DVD cases, with all the cases in a cardboard sleeve. 1-2 discs per case, 4 cases per season. They're perfectly fine. Didn't know the complete ones were in just in sleeves. They're the worst.

This is the film box I have. 10 slim cases inside that.

Oh, and regarding the TNG films, Generations takes place right after TNG, First Contact takes place some way through DS9, after season 4 at the very least as Worf is already assigned to DS9 and the Defiant is in it, Insurrection takes place not much later, and Nemesis takes place after everything, including Voyager (Janeway has a little 2 minute cameo).

At 2/1/13 06:44 AM, TheMaster wrote: Didn't know the complete ones were in just in sleeves. They're the worst.

The complete series box sets are considered "budget" sets. I suppose they are a fair bit cheaper than buying all the individual series but it does mean you have to tolerate the cardboard sleeves. They do leave surface scratches on the discs when you first pull them out but I went through the entire original series with no effect on the playback. We're talking very minor surface scratches.

Next Generation has been a bit different. Each disc usually freezes for a few seconds at least (usually at most) once. So you basically have to put up with the disc freezing for a few seconds once every 4 episodes or something. Although I'm not convinced that's due to the scratches because some of these discs don't even have scratches. Part of me wants to blame my Xbox, which I'm using as the player. Next time I'll watch a disc on my PC and see if that makes a difference. It also seems like little specks of paint, or whatever you want to call it, from the cardboard sleeves end up on the disc. That might be the case. In which case I'd just need to wipe them down a little. It's a tad annoying but it's not enough for it to ruin the experience.

But yea, I'd much rather have them in the slim DVD cases.

Here's how the cardboard sleeves look. They hold 8 discs at most. In the picture, discs 1-4 are still folded over just so I could fit it in the shot. I reckon if people just carelessly yank the discs out, it could cause damage but since I bought these knowing about the potential damage to discs, I've tried to be careful with them. I'm actually tempted to remove all the discs and store them in something else, but that'd be a bit of a pain.

At 2/1/13 06:47 AM, TheMaster wrote: Oh, and regarding the TNG films

So really, with the exception of Generations, I should be avoiding these until after I've gone through DS9 or is that just how they fit in with the timeline? Unless they make strong references to the TV series or wont make sense until I've seen so much of DS9, I'll probably just watch them after I'm done with TNG. Unless you think I should hold off until later. Right now I'm more interested in the TOS films anyway.

At 2/1/13 07:31 AM, Dean wrote: The complete series box sets are considered "budget" sets. I suppose they are a fair bit cheaper than buying all the individual series but it does mean you have to tolerate the cardboard sleeves.

When I bought my individual ones they were considered the budget version. The old complete sets were out of print, the current ones weren't out yet, and there had been fancier individual box sets too. Paid about £15 per season for the lot, which isn't too bad.

My TOS sets are the original ones, in the big plastic cases, because they hadn't had their budget rerelease when I got them. Their discs are in a CD case size plastic book, where each page is like a normal CD case.

I think I'll probably be waiting for the inevitable Blu-ray budget rereleases before upgrading, too. The current ones are so expensive, even TOS which has been out for ages.

At 2/1/13 07:35 AM, Dean wrote:

At 2/1/13 06:47 AM, TheMaster wrote: Oh, and regarding the TNG films

So really, with the exception of Generations, I should be avoiding these until after I've gone through DS9 or is that just how they fit in with the timeline? Unless they make strong references to the TV series or wont make sense until I've seen so much of DS9, I'll probably just watch them after I'm done with TNG. Unless you think I should hold off until later. Right now I'm more interested in the TOS films anyway.

It's not a big deal. It's basically just a case of them contriving some reason for Worf to be away from DS9 so he can link up with the Enterprise crew at the start of each film. They don't link into the plot of it or anything like that.

Janeway's bit is just a cameo, too. She's gives Picard his orders at one point. No references to Voyager beyond her actually being there.

I watched the first film and thought it was pretty average. It really felt like they were just showcasing their bigger budget and ability to use special effects. The plot felt rather dragged out too. That could have easily been achieved an a single episode rather than a film. Still, I'm aware that most people seem to consider the odd numbered films as being less impressive than the evenly numbered films. I'll get on Wrath of Khan tomorrow, hopefully.

I know in the last few posts I moaned about Amazon's current asking price for Voyager, but part of me just wants to order Voyager and Enterprise so that I have all the live action TV series. For the two of them though, it'd cost me about £130 which is about what I paid for TNG and DS9. I can't help feel as though that's a bit much, especially given that Enterprise isn't very highly regarded, but I still feel like I need to get them to be complete. Then I think that'd just leave me needing the animated series and the 2009 film. The new film is due out in a few months too, right? I'll probably go and see that at the cinema.

As much as I love Star Trek, it hasn't been cheap. To think that I only started watching in December and I've already got myself TOS, TNG, DS9 and the 10 films. Worth it though I reckon.

At 2/1/13 07:03 PM, Dean wrote: I watched the first film and thought it was pretty average. It really felt like they were just showcasing their bigger budget and ability to use special effects. The plot felt rather dragged out too. That could have easily been achieved an a single episode rather than a film. Still, I'm aware that most people seem to consider the odd numbered films as being less impressive than the evenly numbered films. I'll get on Wrath of Khan tomorrow, hopefully.

I wasn't hugely impressed with TMP the first time I saw it, but it's definitely grown on me over time. Khan is an immense step up and probably the best bit of the entire Trek franchise.

The odd/even really doesn't hold up either. 3 is perfectly okay and just happens to be sandwiched between two excellent films, 10 is shit, and I while 8 is fine it isn't in the same league as 2, 3, 4 and 6.

I know in the last few posts I moaned about Amazon's current asking price for Voyager, but part of me just wants to order Voyager and Enterprise so that I have all the live action TV series. For the two of them though, it'd cost me about Ã'£130 which is about what I paid for TNG and DS9. I can't help feel as though that's a bit much, especially given that Enterprise isn't very highly regarded, but I still feel like I need to get them to be complete. Then I think that'd just leave me needing the animated series and the 2009 film. The new film is due out in a few months too, right? I'll probably go and see that at the cinema.

Enterprise is a hell of a lot better than Voyager, in my opinion. Especially season 4. Into Darkness is out in May, and I'm not very hopeful based on the trailers. Will still definitely see it, though.