you have to admit though, it's very scarey that we can't ever be sure just what we're being told is truth or not. do you know how to do a dna test, even if you could get a shot at "saddam?" our knowledge is based entirely on faith in very interested parties.

sirterox, why the FUCK do you keep double posting? it's really annoying and it isn't like you've said anything worth repeating

izuoto first of all, your sig pic is really cool, second of all, dont be a dick. I think suddam should be sentenced in Texas.

peter- first of all thank you, it is a very nice sig, war machine made it
second it's very hard for someone to be a dick when they don't even have one. please don't get me wrong. i absolutely think if it's really saddam that he should be brutally killed for all that he's done. but i'm just wondering if it IS him. can we trust the government, and is he actually snaking around out there (not that he'll ever be a threat again)

Has anyone noticed the resemelence between saddam at the moment, gandalf and santa?
no, well, look below.....
damn internet won't let me upload
Just look for santa and gandalf on google and you'l probably find something

Has anyone noticed the resemelence between saddam at the moment, gandalf and santa?
no, well, look below.....
damn internet won't let me upload
Just look for santa and gandalf on google and you'l probably find something

At 12/14/03 04:37 PM, izuamoto wrote:

:it's very hard for someone to be a dick when they don't even have one.

To continue in the same vein...
First of all, What?!

Second of all, why don't I feel some kind of euphoric joy that we've caught this man? I still feel like this was all unnecessary. How did 9-11 lead to this? Would we even be doing this if 9-11 didn't happen? If we wouldn't be, then what would Bush be doing? I just feel really confused right now. This was all supposed to just go away in 2004 with the elections...but now, everything is going to be perpetuated.

Suddenly, I'm sad.

jesus christ. can't anyone say his own opinion without being blasted by second-to-best idiots? this is a free forum for christs sake. and doesn'T your consitution say that everybody has freedom of speech?

At 12/14/03 03:19 PM, Jimsween wrote: They've already had him for months, I've said this over and over. It's just a publicity stunt, in 3 months were going to find something like a nuclear weapon in Iraq, to justify our invasion, and then a few months after that were going to get Ossama.

Come on people, haven't you seen wag the dog? You don't think international politics is just naturally this dramatic do you?

I don'T think the US Army is competent enough to mimic a hollywood movie...

The ranks of the most intelligent jobs is oficially:

last: US Soldier
nothing (for a loooooong time)
Superstars
professional rock
Comedians
Hollywood producers
Makers of any other movies which offer cerebral exercise.

(Journalists, Artists and a bunch of oher jobs weren't included in this list. Please excuse)

At 12/14/03 01:56 PM, izuamoto wrote:

awe, don't be so bithcy to someone who dares to have a different opinion than you, adr. wherever you show up the arguement degrades into a mindless liberal bashing fest.

Dares? Wow! I didn't know I was such an imposing figure.
Today is the first day of the rest of my life!

aaaany way, JMHX never said the US sux. I'm sick of you conservatives thinking that liberals hate their country. it's sickening and it's just not true. but i am distrustful of the government when something goes so wonderfully right just out of the blue and makes the president look sooooo good. i just question it. it's the AMERICAN thing to do

Then I guess you just suck because you're incredibly paranoid. As if the gov is going to bother your unimportant life.

-bush has done many things that can be considered dictatorial
-attained his position through dihonest and controversial means
-taken away our freedom of speech
-disallowed people rights on no constitutional basis, but on his on religious sensibilities
-waged war with other countries unprovoked and for non humanitarian reasons
-lied to the american people about the "enemy" and "wmd"

Let's see.
No. The Supreme court made the decisions, not him
No. In fact he appears to love freedom of speech. Have you seen his remarks at the foreign conventions?
No. He never made any policy saying, interrogate and secure all Arabs entering the country. Security did that on its own.
No. Afghanistan sure as hell provoked us. Iraq ignored the UN and the inspectors, playing some sort of "we will let you look here, but you can't look here, and we're cooperating)
No. The only thing he said that has been proven to be true was the remark about weapons in Nigeria. You cannot prove that anything he said about enemies and wmds are lies.
0 for 5.
Doesn't really seem like a dictator, now does he?

At 12/15/03 03:50 PM, adrshepard wrote:

glad you could make it adr, we were just having an intelligent discussion when you showed up

aaaany way, JMHX never said the US sux. I'm sick of you conservatives thinking that liberals hate their country. it's sickening and it's just not true. but i am distrustful of the government when something goes so wonderfully right just out of the blue and makes the president look sooooo good. i just question it. it's the AMERICAN thing to do

Then I guess you just suck because you're incredibly paranoid. As if the gov is going to bother your unimportant life.

no the government isn't involved in my "unimportant life" the governement is involved in the media swaying my all important vote. and i'm not paranoid. you're just gullible and easily lead. i'm skeptical. i'm not afraid, i just question what is given to me as the truth instead of sucking it up like a cheap whore.
they will never tell you the truth as long as there is a more convenient lie

-bush has done many things that can be considered dictatorial
-attained his position through dihonest and controversial means
-taken away our freedom of speech
-disallowed people rights on no constitutional basis, but on his on religious sensibilities
-waged war with other countries unprovoked and for non humanitarian reasons
-lied to the american people about the "enemy" and "wmd"

Let's see.

No. The Supreme court made the decisions, not him

you are quite naive to think that it was mere coincidence that they never got to finish the recount.
hitler became fuhrer because the keiser swore him in, not because he was elected. yes, let's be like nazi germany.

No. In fact he appears to love freedom of speech. Have you seen his remarks at the foreign conventions?

then it sure as hell isn't reflected in the patriot act. actions speak louder than words

No. He never made any policy saying, interrogate and secure all Arabs entering the country. Security did that on its own.

oh, so then he's NOT commander in cheif and he HAS no power do to ANYTHING he's done. thanks for clearing that up for me
and actually, the religious thing i was refering to was gay marraige and adoption. but we all know that i'm the only one in the whole world in support of both, so i was just saying in general....

No. Afghanistan sure as hell provoked us. Iraq ignored the UN and the inspectors, playing some sort of "we will let you look here, but you can't look here, and we're cooperating)

yeah, afghanistan provoked us. as did Saudi Arabia. yeah, they did a real good job monitoring Osama and Al queda. and all the 911 pilots came from saudi arabia. and all the bin ladens are from there. and we never got to interogate them since they all were sent packing soundly back to the desert. we never said anything to the saudis. hmm. i wonder why..
as for iraq, well that justifies the deaths of thousands, yes, who cares about diplomacy and foreign relations, let's just go into it guns blazing. the truth is he didn't want to wait for un support in the invasion. he wanted america to have iraq all to itself so his big business cronies could divide the killings up amongst themselves. good reason for people to die

No. The only thing he said that has been proven to be true was the remark about weapons in Nigeria. You cannot prove that anything he said about enemies and wmds are lies.

oh, isn't that a convenient arguement? you can't prove that it was the truth either. that has got to be the funniest thing i've heard all day. oh, i'm going to shoot you because there's an invisible elephant on your head. can prove there isn't! it's invisible!

0 for 5.

um no, 5 for 5 works for me.

Doesn't really seem like a dictator, now does he?

seems more like a comlete imbecile.
why do i bother arguing with you, i'm sure you can't possibly really have your head that far up your ass. i'm sure all your arguements are just a joke

It had been said that saddams capture would not end violence in iraq. Sadams capture also did not put an end to me steping on my shoe lace so it unravels when I step with the other foot but unlike journalists I know when something is so obviose it dosen't have to be pointed out.

At 12/14/03 03:14 PM, Peter90688 wrote: lol!! Did u guys see the pic of sudam?! HAHHAHAH! I cant believe somebody that old can do such horrible things to a country. Glad we got em. GO US!!!
Ps- Sudam is even uglier than i thought, damn.

U r gay fagget. Saddam did nothing to Iraq. And i have no clue what he did to the US. C u r the typical "american" u believe w/e the tv tells u. U may have caught saddam but US will get soo much more terrosristical attacks now. Dont forget Saddam had links to other muslim countries (no offense) and those guys r pretty serious enough to kill. So stfu.

At 12/14/03 03:19 PM, Jimsween wrote: They've already had him for months, I've said this over and over. It's just a publicity stunt, in 3 months were going to find something like a nuclear weapon in Iraq, to justify our invasion, and then a few months after that were going to get Ossama.

Come on people, haven't you seen wag the dog? You don't think international politics is just naturally this dramatic do you?

COULDNT HAVE said it better myself. U r absolutly right maybe if they have watched taht movie and read up on a bunch of stuff they can c that america is fucking with their citizens. Sorry its true.

At 12/15/03 04:31 PM, izuamoto wrote:

At 12/15/03 03:50 PM, adrshepard wrote:

Ive tried responding to this two times already, and it freezes up the computer when I press post, so i may miss something from what you wrote. Anyway...

There is nothing desireable about distrusting the government. Those who do aren't devoid of truth, or are they slaves or, like you, "cheap whores."

Sorry for the pot shot.

I think there is no coincidence about finishing the recount. They did many recounts, but they kept finding new ballots, and it turned into a mess.
Somehow you are implying that Bush had a controling influence in both the supreme court and in Florida, which is doubtful. Even more doubtful is that he would try to rig the election when the results were so close. He wouldn't want to be caught and forced to drop out.

Just because we have an election which you don't like doesn't mean we're all Nazis.

Heil Bush.

The patriot act says nothing about free speech, only surveillance and terrorist funding. Nowhere does it mention ending anti-US sentiment.
And if you are somehow right about Bush hating all free speech and taking away our freedoms, he sure is doing a suck-ass job of it, don't you think?

Next, it is not the job of the president to go around telling the security guards how to do their jobs in spotting threats. If they are bad at their jobs it has nothing to do with Bush.

More on next post later.
Heil.

Incidently, I don't mind gay marraige or adoption. Two men can still raise children well, even if they are homos.

As far as Iraq being a business venture, why didn't he just ignore Afghanistan and say that the terrorists were directed by Saddam? Since the government is always lying, it wouldn't have made a difference would it? Kill two birds with one stone.

I love the osama/saudi argument. It says that since the terrorists and Osama were born in Saudi Arabia, we should declare war on Saudi Arabia, even though the terrorists were not acting on the part of the government. It is a nonsensical argument made by Michael Moore just so he could somehow conclude that everything Bush has done is wrong.

so you'd trust the president if he was a liberal? i think we learned our lesson about trusting the government after the kennedy assasaination. face it adr, the government lies. it does, it has to, or people wouldn't respect it because it does disreputable deeds. you're sooooo naive, i mock you

the patriot act allows anyone suspected of dissent to be held indefinately without bail. gee, the secret service and the fbi are monitoring eminem because he said he'd rather see the president dead. gee, i guess if you don't want the secret service up your ass you can't say what you want anymore.

sigh* i NEVER said we had to go to war with saudi arabia! i said that there should have been some investigation. if american terrorists attacked say, france, on the scale of 9/11 don't you think there would be some inquiry as to how much responsibility the u.s. government has over people forming terrorist groups in their country. the saudis knew about him, so did they arrest him? no, he was deported.
i was all for the war in afghanistan, but we failed to find osama. we shouldn't have allowed bush to deflect onto saddam, osama is still out there, and he has a lot more power than saddam right now. this war was carried out for all the wrong reasons.
for oil
to deflect attention away from the failure in afghanistan
for bush's personal vendetta against saddam
to get bush reelected.

and you guys can all call me a fucking liberal commy pinko, fuck you i don't care

At 12/15/03 06:57 PM, izuamoto wrote: so you'd trust the president if he was a liberal? i think we learned our lesson about trusting the government after the kennedy assasaination. face it adr, the government lies. it does, it has to, or people wouldn't respect it because it does disreputable deeds. you're sooooo naive, i mock you

I don't care if he's liberal, conservative, or anything. I don't buy into that profiling crap. But thats just me.
As for being naive, kiss my ass. Of course not all government actions have been completely honorable in our eyes. But the government does tell the truth, and I think they told the truth about Saddam. No one as a citizen can tell when the government is lying and when they're not, but when the ever increasing power of the media agrees with government reports, I have to believe that it is true.

the patriot act allows anyone suspected of dissent to be held indefinately without bail. gee, the secret service and the fbi are monitoring eminem because he said he'd rather see the president dead. gee, i guess if you don't want the secret service up your ass you can't say what you want anymore.

No, its if you are suspected of being a terrorist. People still say what they want. Just look at all the anti-war protests. They weren't jailed or monitored for their views. Eminem made a threat on the president. Implied or actual, the message was the same. Though he probably just did it for publicity, the secret service has a duty to check these things.

At 12/15/03 07:06 PM, izuamoto wrote: sigh* i NEVER said we had to go to war with saudi arabia! i said that there should have been some investigation. if american terrorists attacked say, france, on the scale of 9/11 don't you think there would be some inquiry as to how much responsibility the u.s. government has over people forming terrorist groups in their country. the saudis knew about him, so did they arrest him? no, he was deported.

i was all for the war in afghanistan, but we failed to find osama. we shouldn't have allowed bush to deflect onto saddam, osama is still out there, and he has a lot more power than saddam right now. this war was carried out for all the wrong reasons.

I don't think the war was a total failure. The US routed Al-Queda forces from Afghanistan. Their ability to conduct terrorist operations was stopped. They may try to reorganize, but the US will always be ready.

for oil

Oil was only supposed to help pay for the war effort, and it hasn't hardly paid for it at all. If it was for oil, then it wasn't a wise investment.

to deflect attention away from the failure in afghanistan

Like I said, not a total failure.

for bush's personal vendetta against saddam

If you attack the life of a president, isn't that an attack on America? To attack its primary leader? When you think about it, is it such a bad reason to have a personal vendetta against someone who attacked your father, who was president?

to get bush reelected.

Don't be so sure. Not everyone loves war.

and you guys can all call me a fucking liberal commy pinko, fuck you i don't care

And see where your distrust has gotten you.
Neener neener.

At 12/15/03 06:57 PM, izuamoto wrote: so you'd trust the president if he was a liberal? i think we learned our lesson about trusting the government after the kennedy assasaination. face it adr, the government lies. it does, it has to, or people wouldn't respect it because it does disreputable deeds. you're sooooo naive, i mock you

I don't care if he's liberal, conservative, or anything. I don't buy into that profiling crap. But thats just me.
As for being naive, kiss my ass. Of course not all government actions have been completely honorable in our eyes. But the government does tell the truth, and I think they told the truth about Saddam. No one as a citizen can tell when the government is lying and when they're not, but when the ever increasing power of the media agrees with government reports, I have to believe that it is true.

the patriot act allows anyone suspected of dissent to be held indefinately without bail. gee, the secret service and the fbi are monitoring eminem because he said he'd rather see the president dead. gee, i guess if you don't want the secret service up your ass you can't say what you want anymore.

No, its if you are suspected of being a terrorist. People still say what they want. Just look at all the anti-war protests. They weren't jailed or monitored for their views. Eminem made a threat on the president. Implied or actual, the message was the same. Though he probably just did it for publicity, the secret service has a duty to check these things.

ok, couple of things, adr
first of all, when everything the media says starts to coincide with what the government says you believe them more? the government owns the media, i'm afraid, and the newscasters and journalists are under a lot of duress to make sure they don't say anything bad about the government, or disagree with them. there are tiny muffled voices of dissent, but the major news stations are puppets. not that you have to believe it, but that's my experience with them.

ok, second, i agree that the war in afghanistan wasn't a total failure, maybe i was too absolute. you're right, al-queda was subverted but osama bin laden is still unaccounted for. people want that personification of the evil that caused 9/11, their emotional side yearned for that closure, and bush looked bad when he couldn't bring it to them. so, riding on a lot of the anti-arab sentiment, he picked a very acceptable target;sadam hussein
of course, sadam doesn't really have ties with al-queda, you're completely ignorant if you think so. but people get irrational and they lump people together. he was sort of a consolation price. don't get me wrong, the world is a better place without him in power, but the ends don't justify the means. and bush doesn't deserve credit as some great humanitarian who liberated the iraqis when clearly peace and freedom was not his intent, merely an after thought that sounded good.

WHERE ARE THE WEAPONS OF MASS DESTRUCTION???

Maybe a few too many (million) people have joined in the current habit of Looking The Other Way, but how about remembering the whole reason the US made up for being there in the first place?

w00t, well i suppose you all heard already about how the fourth infantry attained saddam. they bought him, off a bounty hunter, doesn;t that make bushes army look sharp, huh?
see, i told you they weren't going to tell us just anything. now who's to say we didn't know about his where abouts for quite some time? as far as we know, saddam's hideout was a prison, and he was being held there for an undeterminal amount of time. ok, maybe not undeterminal. somebody knows how long he was there. but they sure as hell won't tell us.

At 12/14/03 06:46 AM, ecstasy122 wrote: Apperantly Saddam was captured by coalition forces in a joint operation with kurdish forces in Tigrit.
I predict the terror attacks will increase rather then stop. As message to the US ,that the opposition will continue its aggression.

I agree with you there, I don't think that they are going to stop just because we captured one of their leaders that is a symbol of power. They are more likely to increase their attacks to get back at us for it.

I also think that saddam had little to do with the previous

attacks. He was just a symbol.
I also agree with you there. He was mainly just a symbol of power that they all respected.

At 12/16/03 11:59 AM, Izuamoto wrote: w00t, well i suppose you all heard already about how the fourth infantry attained saddam. they bought him, off a bounty hunter, doesn;t that make bushes army look sharp, huh?

Can you stop talking about the US Army as if they were idiots? They didn't "buy him off a bounty hunter", they spent months interrogating and capturing relatives and other officials, cross-checking information, et cetera. If they can find one man in a camaflouged hole in a huge country with massive deserts and a billion places to hide, that's pretty impressive.

At 12/16/03 11:59 AM, Izuamoto wrote: w00t, well i suppose you all heard already about how the fourth infantry attained saddam. they bought him, off a bounty hunter, doesn;t that make bushes army look sharp, huh?

So, for the grand total of $25m, the US can find Saddam. OK, what's the sticker price on the Weapons Of Mass Destruction that aren't there? $50m? $75m?

As for the bounty hunter, what security was he promised in return for the information? After all, Ba'ath Loyalists will probably be looking for him already to gain another moral victory over the US, and how can he possibly secure the cheque without being found out and killed? Was he smuggled out the country and granted immunity? For some reason, I don't think so - and if he lives out the rest of the year, I'd be surprised. But, then again, he's lived past his use, so screw him. It'd be better if the money was never banked, eh?

When i heared the news i thought.....................w00t..............

At 12/16/03 11:28 AM, D2KVirus wrote: WHERE ARE THE WEAPONS OF MASS DESTRUCTION???

Maybe a few too many (million) people have joined in the current habit of Looking The Other Way, but how about remembering the whole reason the US made up for being there in the first place?

Yes they did... So it looks like they started the war with Iraq?
Mhhm?