Forum Topic: Tending the flock

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Korriken

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Posted at: 11/28/08 10:25 PM

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It drives me nuts when I view people and notice how sheep like they really are, in so many aspects of life. I went to walmart today to see about getting some eggs and yeast to make me some homemade bread. What i saw was just sickening. I see all these people running around with "Obama: change we can believe in" T-shirts, which didn't really surprise me, they've been doing it a while. The sickening part happened when I was walking through the electronics department on my way to the grocery department.

I saw people crowded around trying to buy the latest expensive gadgets for their children. One women went had a conniption about not getting a playstation 3 for her kid, screaming how "Obama's gonna fix this! this ain't gonna be a problem next year when all your rich white people are broke!" the words shocked my mind, not because they were true (we all know better) but the fact that someone would even think to SAY such rot.

needless to say i got what I needed and stood in line for a LONG time to get out. as I was walking outside, I looked around at what people had in their buggies. They had video game systems, they had these remote control dinosaurs that cost $130. and it made me wonder. "are men really sheep? are we really so shallow and stupid?" then the answer hit me. "yes, we are."

Many politicians use our sheep mentality, often. take the Dunblane massacre for instance. Thomas Hamilton decides to shoot up a school. the sheep begin braying the and government takes the opportunity to snatch away handguns. first they restrict, then outright ban handguns. later on, they decide to snatch away your right to carry a knife in public. of course, the sheep in the pasture are happily braying to their shepherds. They got what they wanted, a shortsighted and simple fix to a deep and complicated problem. The shepherd government got what they wanted too, less rights for their sheep subjects.

Obama's campaign was a fine example of herding the sheep. People were pissed off at Bush, and he takes the opportunity by saying "CHANGE CHANGE CHANGE!!!!" Of course the sheep came flocking to the call of "CHANGE!" then the other side of the sheep, the sheep that hate liberals, flocked over to McCain, who is a moderate liberal, but those sheep are just as blind and refused to see that much.

and before you go ranting "PPL R NOT SHEEP!!!" stop and ask yourself this. Especially if you are an american, who did you vote for and WHY? If you say Obama and say mention the word "Change" without any specifics, then you are indeed a sheep yourself. If you say McCain, and can't come up with anything other than "experience" or "war vet" without know any specifics on his POLITICAL career, then you are also a sheep. If you are into "what's trendy" then you are most certainly a sheep, as a matter of fact, you're a sheep that being shepherded most likely by a magazine.

Wake up people! don't be sheep! Think before you act and don't let anyone or anything lead you around blindly!

Baka......

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BetaOrionis

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Posted at: 11/28/08 10:34 PM

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You should post this in General, where the sheep go to chat.


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dySWN

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Posted at: 11/28/08 10:35 PM

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It's especially funny because, judging from his cabinet picks, Obama's time will be four more years of the same old song and dance.

NEVADA: It's pronounced "nuh-VAD-uh", not "nuh-vah-duh."

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poxpower

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Posted at: 11/28/08 10:35 PM

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You know who's even more pathetic? Someone who openly and proudly "doesn't conform".
And shops at Wal-Mart.

Yeah but when YOU shop there, you're using your independance to challenge the system, DUDE! But when some redneck shops there, they're just sheeple.

Everyone who votes is a sheep. Everyone who works is a sheep. Everyone who asks for anything is a sheep. Anyone who gets an education, drinks, has a gun, friends, family or celebrates Christmas is a sheep.

Btw have fun making bread, it's fun! Make cheese bread, it's the best.


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Korriken

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Posted at: 11/28/08 11:02 PM

Korriken NEUTRAL LEVEL 05

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At 11/28/08 10:35 PM, poxpower wrote: You know who's even more pathetic? Someone who openly and proudly "doesn't conform".
And shops at Wal-Mart.

In case that's aimed at me, I shop at walmart because its close by and has what I need. If i could find yeast at the local farmer's market, i would go there, its less crowded. and I don't intend to travel for 20 minutes to find yeast at a non walmart.


Yeah but when YOU shop there, you're using your independance to challenge the system, DUDE! But when some redneck shops there, they're just sheeple.

If you ask the person and he says, "wull, shoppin at walmart is just GAWD DAMN AMERICAN!" then yes, he is a sheep. if he says, "Wull, I'm too damn broke to shop anywhere else, except the dollar store" then he's just a broke bastard that can't afford to go to them smaller stores that charge more.


Everyone who votes is a sheep. Everyone who works is a sheep. Everyone who asks for anything is a sheep. Anyone who gets an education, drinks, has a gun, friends, family or celebrates Christmas is a sheep.

People who do things blindly are sheep. People who follow blindly are sheep. the difference between a person and a sheep is the this. "do you do what you do because you actually enjoy it, or do you do it because everyone else does?" or for politics, "do you know what this person stands for? do you know this person's stances on the issues?" for many people, the answer would shock them to the core. they are indeed sheep.


Btw have fun making bread, it's fun! Make cheese bread, it's the best.

but cheese bread isn't Kosher! (lol j/k) I like to make pumpkin bread myself. this is a fantastic recipe. and if you don't wanna bother with all the spices, just use a couple of teaspoons of pumpkin pie spice, its the same stuff!

Baka......

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poxpower

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Posted at: 11/28/08 11:07 PM

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At 11/28/08 11:02 PM, Korriken wrote:
If you ask the person and he says, "wull, shoppin at walmart is just GAWD DAMN AMERICAN!" then yes, he is a sheep.

Who the fuck would say that with a straight face?
You watch too much tv.

"do you do what you do because you actually enjoy it, or do you do it because everyone else does?"

There's a GOOD chance that if everyone does something, it's enjoyable.


I like to make pumpkin bread myself.

I never tried.


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Korriken

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Posted at: 11/28/08 11:17 PM

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At 11/28/08 11:07 PM, poxpower wrote:
Who the fuck would say that with a straight face?
You watch too much tv.

the irony of this statement is, I don't watch tv, except for the educational channels, they hate neat shows, but most tv sucks. Also, no one would (or maybe even could) actually say that to someone else with confidence and a straight face. I'm just making a point and playing off a stereotype.

There's a GOOD chance that if everyone does something, it's enjoyable.

You would be amazed at how often i get the response "I do it because its cool!" when I ask someone why they do something. If you do something trendy because you actually ENJOY it, that's fine, if you do it BECAUSE its trendy, you're a sheep.

I like to make pumpkin bread myself.
I never tried.

you should, its good and its very easy to make.

Baka......

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Conspiracy3

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Posted at: 11/29/08 04:40 PM

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Obama didn't just say "change" and "yes we can", yes those were his slogans, but he did have very strong and clear plans as to how he will handle foreign and domestic issues. I have read everything he has said about his economic, social, environmental, and foreign policy and I have agreed with it much more than I did with that of McCain. Saying that all Obama supporters are sheep that just simply follow slogans is rediculous. Some of us actually pay attention to issues.

You have also said the same thing about McCain supporters. Although there are sheep on both sides, there are also those who actually know what they are talking about. When you mention gun control it is also necessary to say that not all people who support those laws are sheep. Some actually think for themselves. Although I am currently undecided on the issue it is important to understand that there is not one single issue in which all supporters or dissenters are sheep. You do make a good point however that most people are.


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aninjaman

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Posted at: 11/29/08 05:44 PM

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I don't get what the big deal with being sheep is.
Humans a naturally conformist and naturally want to fit in so they conform and become sheep.
Besides going on a rant about being individual only makes you a sheep because you are part of the large group of people that try to be non-comforist.
The only difference between me (a sheep) and a non-conoformist is that the non-conformist is a hypocrite.


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Conspiracy3

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Posted at: 11/29/08 08:01 PM

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At 11/29/08 05:44 PM, aninjaman wrote: I don't get what the big deal with being sheep is.
Humans a naturally conformist and naturally want to fit in so they conform and become sheep.
Besides going on a rant about being individual only makes you a sheep because you are part of the large group of people that try to be non-comforist.
The only difference between me (a sheep) and a non-conoformist is that the non-conformist is a hypocrite.

A sheep is someone who blindly conforms without thinking. Consider them super conformists. Not all conformists are sheep. Some conform because they have considered the issues and thought that the general populous was correct.


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aninjaman

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Posted at: 11/29/08 10:14 PM

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At 11/29/08 08:01 PM, Conspiracy3 wrote: A sheep is someone who blindly conforms without thinking. Consider them super conformists. Not all conformists are sheep. Some conform because they have considered the issues and thought that the general populous was correct.

But whats the big deal with insulting people that conform blindly?
Humans are naturally conformists.


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Conspiracy3

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Posted at: 11/29/08 10:42 PM

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At 11/29/08 10:14 PM, aninjaman wrote:
At 11/29/08 08:01 PM, Conspiracy3 wrote: A sheep is someone who blindly conforms without thinking. Consider them super conformists. Not all conformists are sheep. Some conform because they have considered the issues and thought that the general populous was correct.
But whats the big deal with insulting people that conform blindly?
Humans are naturally conformists.

I have nothing against conformists. I do have a problem with conformists who don't think about what they're doing. Without people thinking about the proper action society never changes. People will do as people around them will do. That trend will be passed from generation to generation. Since society has changed in the past that means not all humans are naturally blind conformists. Therefore you're point is false.


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aninjaman

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Posted at: 11/29/08 10:54 PM

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At 11/29/08 10:42 PM, Conspiracy3 wrote: I have nothing against conformists. I do have a problem with conformists who don't think about what they're doing. Without people thinking about the proper action society never changes. People will do as people around them will do. That trend will be passed from generation to generation.

Your problem is with stupidy not conforming. You hate it when people conform with stupid ideas but if people blindly followed ideas that help people then you would be fine.

Since society has changed in the past that means not all humans are naturally blind conformists.

Not all humans are blind comformists but still conformists. We all make effort to try to fit in with those aroud us.

Therefore you're point is false.

You misunderstood my point.


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SmilezRoyale

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Posted at: 11/29/08 10:54 PM

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At least it's nice to know that... now that the campaign is over, the obamatrons have stopped visiting the politics forum, and are now thoroughly assured that Obama will solve the worlds problems [What's the point of being political active when uncle sam is coming to the rescue?]

Anyway, the obama supporters will have their cake, the rich will be 'punished' just the way they wanted them to be.

"Government is the great fiction through which everybody endeavors to live at the expense of everybody else." - Bastiat


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aninjaman

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Posted at: 11/30/08 01:30 PM

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At 11/29/08 10:54 PM, SmilezRoyale wrote: At least it's nice to know that... now that the campaign is over, the obamatrons have stopped visiting the politics forum, and are now thoroughly assured that Obama will solve the worlds problems [What's the point of being political active when uncle sam is coming to the rescue?]

No one expects Obama to solve all the problems.


Anyway, the obama supporters will have their cake, the rich will be 'punished' just the way they wanted them to be.

Im an Obama supporter and I never said anything like that.
No one did.


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Rideo

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Posted at: 11/30/08 01:54 PM

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At 11/28/08 10:35 PM, dySWN wrote: It's especially funny because, judging from his cabinet picks, Obama's time will be four more years of the same old song and dance.

Yeah, I feel betrayed by the man I voted for before he's even gotten into office. Though I really mainly voted obama because of a severe dislike for the Mccain/palin ticket, I did still believe he was the lesser of two evils.

Vote Ron Paul 2012!

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poxpower

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Posted at: 11/30/08 02:08 PM

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At 11/28/08 11:17 PM, Korriken wrote:
You would be amazed at how often i get the response "I do it because its cool!" when I ask someone why they do something.

1. Anyone who askes the question "hey why are you doing this?" is automatically an asshole.
2. No one ever said that to you, admit it.

If you do something trendy because you actually ENJOY it, that's fine, if you do it BECAUSE its trendy,

Name one single thing that you can do "because it's trendy" but that you don't enjoy doing too.


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AapoJoki

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Posted at: 11/30/08 02:32 PM

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At 11/30/08 02:08 PM, poxpower wrote: Name one single thing that you can do "because it's trendy" but that you don't enjoy doing too.

- watching reality TV like Big Brother or American Idol "just to know what everyone's talking about".
- going to opera or theatre regularly to "appear more culturally enlightened".
- following fashion, wearing uncomfortable clothes to appeal to your peers or the opposite sex. For instance, I don't think many women enjoy walking on high heels. And I honestly can't imagine why someone would enjoy wearing a suit in a business meeting, but everyone is expected to do so. Or maybe some people enjoy sweating.
- attending church or other religious rituals to avoid weird looks or ostracism.
- committing a crime to gain admission to a gang, even if doing so makes you feel guilty.
- etc.

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aninjaman

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Posted at: 11/30/08 02:45 PM

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At 11/30/08 02:32 PM, AapoJoki wrote:
At 11/30/08 02:08 PM, poxpower wrote: Name one single thing that you can do "because it's trendy" but that you don't enjoy doing too.
- watching reality TV like Big Brother or American Idol "just to know what everyone's talking about".

And if thry don't like it they stop and only continue watching if they like it.

- going to opera or theatre regularly to "appear more culturally enlightened".

People do it because they like feeling more culturally enlightened.

- following fashion, wearing uncomfortable clothes to appeal to your peers or the opposite sex. For instance, I don't think many women enjoy walking on high heels. And I honestly can't imagine why someone would enjoy wearing a suit in a business meeting, but everyone is expected to do so. Or maybe some people enjoy sweating.

They do not like the clothes but they like keeping up appereances.

- attending church or other religious rituals to avoid weird looks or ostracism.

They enjoy fitting in.

- committing a crime to gain admission to a gang, even if doing so makes you feel guilty.

People don't joing gangs if crime makes them feel guilty.

- etc.

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Cornbucket

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Posted at: 11/30/08 02:50 PM

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At 11/30/08 02:45 PM, aninjaman wrote: cost/benefit analysis

If sheep didn't stick together they'd just be easier meat for the wolves.


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aninjaman

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Posted at: 11/30/08 02:52 PM

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At 11/30/08 02:50 PM, Cornbucket wrote:
At 11/30/08 02:45 PM, aninjaman wrote: cost/benefit analysis
If sheep didn't stick together they'd just be easier meat for the wolves.

That's the general idea when I say that humans are naturally conformist.
Societies work better if they stick together.


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Cornbucket

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Posted at: 11/30/08 03:01 PM

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At 11/30/08 02:52 PM, aninjaman wrote: That's the general idea when I say that humans are naturally conformist.
Societies work better if they stick together.

I agree. The people who avoid or ignore that instinct may also be putting themselves directly in danger.

When one sheep senses danger and runs, so do the rest. The "nonconformist" sheep who doesn't get what all the fuss is about is the one that stays behind and invariably gets its head bitten clean off. Also as you showed, the benefits of doing things we don't necessarily like or aren't fully informed about tend to outweight their costs. Wearing a stuffy suit to your office meeting might suck, but it's better than being comfortable in a mustard-stained t-shirt and no longer being employed the next day.

If people have a sheep mentality it's because it's evolutionary beneficial to have it. It's pretty much what being a social creature is all about.


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AapoJoki

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Posted at: 11/30/08 03:10 PM

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At 11/30/08 02:45 PM, aninjaman wrote: And if thry don't like it they stop and only continue watching if they like it.

Not all of them. Or at least many of them won't confess that they actually like what they're watching. A friend of mine actually said that he doesn't particularly like Big Brother, but he watches it "just to know what's going on".

People do it because they like feeling more culturally enlightened.

Yeah, but they don't like the activity ITSELF. They like satisfying the peer pressure, which is the very definition of "doing something because it's trendy".

They do not like the clothes but they like keeping up appereances.

Lol, again. The exact definition of "being trendy".

- attending church or other religious rituals to avoid weird looks or ostracism.
They enjoy fitting in.

Wtf, are only you trying to prove my point, as if I hadn't argued it well enough? Doing things to "fit in" is THE EXACT SAME THING as doing things "because it's trendy".

Yes, people enjoy "fitting in", and that's exactly why they do things that they don't otherwise enjoy. That has been my point all along!

People don't joing gangs if crime makes them feel guilty.

It is possible, I think even likely, that there are plenty outcasts who don't seem to find a place to belong, and end up criminals as a result. People are capable of doing things they think are wrong, when pressured enough. Senior gang members know how to take advantage of this, and make the new kids do their dirty work.

Besides, even if new gang members don't have a moral objection to committing crimes, I'm sure they won't at least enjoy the possibility of getting caught by the police.

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Korriken

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Posted at: 12/1/08 12:16 AM

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At 11/30/08 02:08 PM, poxpower wrote:
1. Anyone who askes the question "hey why are you doing this?" is automatically an asshole.

anyone who questions anything is automatically an asshole, moron, dirtbag, nazi, heretic, loud mouth, or fool. just depends on who you ask.

2. No one ever said that to you, admit it.

ask a smoking teen why they smoke. you'll get the response after a couple of tries.


Name one single thing that you can do "because it's trendy" but that you don't enjoy doing too.

- smoking. people know the risks involved and many get started because of their friends. I personally don't know a single person who ever enjoyed their first smoke. they always talked about gagging and/or puking. How they go back for a 2nd time is beyond me.

- drink nasty tasting liquor to get drunk in front of 'friends'. Ok maybe not so much this one.

- wasting money on expensive clothing that you know you'll ditch a few months later for more expensive clothes, know you'd rather spend the money on something else.

- watching a show you don't care for, or think is just stupid, in order to impress people when you can join in on talking about the show with them.

the list goes on and depends on the individual.

While it is a well known fact that sheep are herd animals and herd mentality keeps them alive, humans are not prey animals. We are predatory creatures, more along the line of wolves. A pack of wolves can bring down a large animal, however, a single clever wolf can hunt down smaller creatures for itself. As far back as human history has recorded, we have hunted down creatures and killed them for food. As with other apes, we have superior intelligence and we use this to our advantage in survival. Most larger ape species, especially chimps, have been known to develop new methods, such as jabbing a sharp stick into a hole in a tree to get bugs. This may seem to be a rather silly thing to a human, but before a chimp thought of this, none of the others did it.

Humans are social creatures, but we're capable of more than being mere sheep. Humans are (supposed to be) far more intelligent that most creatures on earth, and yet this superior intelligence is often wasted, tossed aside to follow the crowd like a useless sheep in a herd of sheep, who's sole purpose is to merely exist until it falls victim to a higher being. and Mansheep often fall victim to beings of higher intellect. gang leaders, politicians, salesmen, con artists, just to name a few. People know how to take advantage of lesser people and they do it every single day.

And now as I leave for this night to get me some sleep, I leave you with this to look at. It's interesting to look at, and shows that the human mind is capable of being deep. If the artist wasn't capable of deep creative thought, then he/she/they could have never come up with something like this.

Baka......

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Cornbucket

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Posted at: 12/1/08 05:55 AM

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At 12/1/08 12:16 AM, Korriken wrote: And now as I leave for this night to get me some sleep, I leave you with this to look at. It's interesting to look at, and shows that the human mind is capable of being deep. If the artist wasn't capable of deep creative thought, then he/she/they could have never come up with something like this.

What does that have anything to do with the topic?

It's a cool picture and all but it's not like it's a valid argument, like "see that's what you can do if you aren't a sheep!" I mean, what, you don't think artists inspire each other and feed off each other's ideas also? I say this because that picture is dated 2004 and I'm POSITIVE I've seen a similarly themed piece done a long time ago (at LEAST around '85, which isn't THAT long in the scope of things), only done with oil paint on canvas instead of being 'shopped on a computer.

Ranting about sheep mentality seems stupid to me because EVERYONE acts both individually and socially at times. Sometimes we have to suppress our individuality in order to operate within the larger whole, and other times we're obligated to ourselves to express our individuality so that we may actually change the larger whole.


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Korriken

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Posted at: 12/1/08 06:28 AM

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At 12/1/08 05:55 AM, Cornbucket wrote:
What does that have anything to do with the topic?

It's a cool picture and all but it's not like it's a valid argument, like "see that's what you can do if you aren't a sheep!" I mean, what, you don't think artists inspire each other and feed off each other's ideas also? I say this because that picture is dated 2004 and I'm POSITIVE I've seen a similarly themed piece done a long time ago (at LEAST around '85, which isn't THAT long in the scope of things), only done with oil paint on canvas instead of being 'shopped on a computer.

yes i know artists can copy off each other and even some artists are sheep. However, the point you miss is the idea that the artist who did it first had to think outside his little box to come up with the concept, and didn't just do what all the other artists did.


Ranting about sheep mentality seems stupid to me because EVERYONE acts both individually and socially at times. Sometimes we have to suppress our individuality in order to operate within the larger whole, and other times we're obligated to ourselves to express our individuality so that we may actually change the larger whole.

It's not the idea of acting on an individual vs social basis. it's the idea of thinking for yourself. Few people on this forum seem to catch the idea. a large portion of people just follow the trends and never give it a second thought. In some countries, this mentality is forced on you and deviating means punishment. However in most developed countries this is not the case. However people still just follow the trends and the herds and never once give a thought to exactly what it is they are doing.

And as I said before, many people of a much higher awareness of being will manipulate people who don't have a clue. take for example, in school I saw many times someone play 2 people against each other to make them fight. go to 1 person and tell them that so and so said he's gonna kick your ass, or that he has been flirting with your girl. then watch as the fight unfolds, to his amusement and to the other peoples' detriments. had the sheep that went to beat down the other guy gave it some thought, he could have avoided a lot of trouble and possibly avoided getting his own ass kicked by talking to the other guy and letting him know someone is spreading rumors about him instead of getting all pissed off and running off to fight.

The difference between a man and a sheep is our ability to think on a higher level, instead of blindly following others. Those that blindly pursue pleasure, as prevalent as it is in our society, often suffer later in life.

Sometimes, its wise to step back and think things over and ask yourself "Is there a better way?" Often, the answer is yes.

Baka......

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