The Beautiful Truth

[JackPhantasm]

Basically drug companies hide the effectiveness of alternative healing methods from the public.

I felt that this held VAST political connotations so I would post it here I thought.

What are your general stances on the government and how it deals with disease. Do you think they care about the general public good? Or profits?

Other areas of discussion along this would be things like the tuskegee research project on bad blood, and the issuing of the polio vaccine. (Opinions on those being obviously, is the government interested in your well being?)

Where does well being end in the search for ultimate knowledge, is the accomplishing the latter acceptable if you have to sacrifice the former?

Discuss.

[SadisticMonkey]

That film won't be biased.

/

[MultiCanimefan]

This is not surprising. The government tells the people nothing. The drug companies tell you nothing. And we all know why: MONEY.

[homor]

is Kevin Truadue behind this crap?

[JackPhantasm]

Thank you for your in depth and thought out posts.

[homor]

let me get a little more into this:

natural cures are almost always CRAP.

there are hundreads of diaeses [sic] that have been crued by modern medicene, smallpox, cowpox, polio, just to name three.

"natural" medicene has cured JACK SHIT. there are cures for illnesses [sic?] out in the wilds, but lets face it, most of them are usless and sometimes dangerous without proper refinement.

the goverment and drug companys are not in a big conspiracy to keep people sick. they may be fucks, but they aren't counter-productive.

and if you're wondering "well with all our science we should cure all of the diaeses by now, what the fuck yo?" you're an idiot, cures don't appear right out of the blue, it takes years of research and a strong understanding of the illness to cure it.

science and magic are not the same thing people, science can't do anything out of the blue. a scientest can't just wave a magic wand and make cemo obsolete.

the man behind most of this "natural cures" bullshit is Kevin Truaude, a scam artist skilled at tricking people, lying, and playing off their fears, like any good con man.

[JackPhantasm]

Of course natural cures are not as proven. But are medicines any more affective? I find that most medicines just mask the disease, instead of truly making you stronger.

Are their documents that date back to prehistoric times that tell you how many cavemen died of cancer?

Our age expectancy these days is so high, I wonder, how much of that is truly due to medicine.

[homor]

At 11/27/08 11:47 PM, JackPhantasm wrote: Of course natural cures are not as proven. But are medicines any more affective?

if your leg was ripped off, would you go to a hospital or a spirit healer?

Are their documents that date back to prehistoric times that tell you how many cavemen died of cancer?

are you saying drug companies invented cancer?

nah you're probebly not.

[Helicopterz]

At 11/27/08 11:55 PM, homor wrote:
if your leg was ripped off, would you go to a hospital or a spirit healer?

That isn't cancer. And they wouldn't give you a pill for that either.

are you saying drug companies invented cancer?

the conditions and variables introduced to our lives by modern society created cancer, I think. Unless you can show me data that reveals that it was always around. I think it always was, since we invented the first tools.

nah you're probebly not.

Nope.

[homor]

At 11/28/08 12:06 AM, Helicopterz wrote:

At 11/27/08 11:55 PM, homor wrote:
if your leg was ripped off, would you go to a hospital or a spirit healer?

That isn't cancer.

we're not just talking about cancer.

And they wouldn't give you a pill for that either.

no, they wouldn't give you a pill, except painkillers.

they'd also be able to patch up your leg, keep it protected while it heals, and do surgery to fix your broken bones so they don't rip your skin apart.

[poxpower]

At 11/27/08 11:47 PM, JackPhantasm wrote: Of course natural cures are not as proven. But are medicines any more affective?

Yes, by a trillion miles.
Actual medicine has eradicated things like polio and malaria and has pushed back cancer and AIDs by sometimes decades.
There's no comparing modern medicine with shitty "natural cures".

Natural cures only help mild illnesses.

The real way in which "natural" cures help you out is your diet. I have a book on food that can "cure" cancer. They don't actually cure it as much as prevent it, or give you a better chance to avoid them.

Things like cabbage, green tea, berries, turmeric etc.

This movie is CRAP and is probably going to get some people killed -_-

[JackPhantasm]

At 11/28/08 12:36 AM, poxpower wrote:
Yes, by a trillion miles.
Actual medicine has eradicated things like polio and malaria and has pushed back cancer and AIDs by sometimes decades.
There's no comparing modern medicine with shitty "natural cures".

Yes of course, as treatments, medicines, can cure your ailments. But what do they do on an evolutionary scale? Are they making us stronger as a species?

I believe akin to what you indicate latterly, that diet and lifestyle are far more importan factors for your health than treatments. Of course they would be though, they're what comes before the need for treatment, so if you can't effect that, then how do you expect a later cure to truly help you biologically.

I am just worried, I suppose, as to the long term effects of dependence on medicines. Do you foresee detriment or benefit in regards to this predicament?

[poxpower]

At 11/28/08 12:51 AM, JackPhantasm wrote:

But what do they do on an evolutionary scale?

No one gives a shit.

I believe akin to what you indicate latterly, that diet and lifestyle are far more importan factors for your health than treatments.

indeed

I am just worried, I suppose, as to the long term effects of dependence on medicines.

Probably the same long-term effects as dependence on forks and clothing.

[Korriken]

At 11/28/08 12:36 AM, poxpower wrote: This movie is CRAP and is probably going to get some people killed -_-

can you name ONE "documentary" movie that ISN'T crap? I can't! (except for Michael Moore's movie on the medical system, but he didn't say anything that ISN'T common knowledge already, and if it wasn't common knowledge, it was irrelevant, like France's health care system paying for housemaids to wash clothes for people.)

I have yet to see a half decent "documentary" film that takes a subject, thoroughly analyzes it, and shows the results. its always a freaking joke, or worse, 1/2 speculation, 1/4 bullshit, 1/4 distortion that the sheep lap up like a kitten lapping up milk in a saucer while some sick weirdo watches and grins, knowing he's having cat for dinner once it's older.

[JackPhantasm]

At 11/28/08 12:57 AM, poxpower wrote:

At 11/28/08 12:51 AM, JackPhantasm wrote:

But what do they do on an evolutionary scale?

No one gives a shit.

You just called me no one. I get what you're saying. And it's true. Isn't that even more of a reason to worry?

As you say, we do not even know the impact of forks.

[poxpower]

At 11/28/08 01:10 AM, JackPhantasm wrote:

You just called me no one. I get what you're saying. And it's true. Isn't that even more of a reason to worry?

The one thing we have to be careful of with modern medicine is to use vaccines properly so that we don't create super-viruses that are resistant to antibiotics. There's ways around it but poor administration of inoculations create diseases immune to the cure and that sucks mega-ass.

It's not OUR evolution that we have to be concerned with, it's the micro-organism. They can evolve in our lifetimes. We won't evolve much for thousands of years. My guess is that cloning, stem cells and robotics will largely increase our potential and much faster than "evolution". So there's nothing to worry about.

As you say, we do not even know the impact of forks.

what? Sentences like these is why I say you're insane.

[SirLebowski]

I mean, just look at how long and well people lived back in times before modern medicene. They were happy, lived to ripe old ages, and lived generally healthier lives.

Sarcasm aside, everyone is doping themselves up and I think the effects won't be good in the long term.

[Rideo]

At 11/28/08 12:06 AM, Helicopterz wrote: the conditions and variables introduced to our lives by modern society created cancer, I think. Unless you can show me data that reveals that it was always around. I think it always was, since we invented the first tools.

First case of cancer found in 1500 BC (Egypt)

Natural cures are bullshit. As already stated, if they cured something then it would have caught on. People don't use natural cures worldwide because they don't work, not because the government tells them it's not gonna work. Do you really think people won't use a cure known to save their lives just because someone else told them not to?

[JackPhantasm]

At 11/28/08 03:03 AM, poxpower wrote:
what? Sentences like these is why I say you're insane.

You brought up forks and common environmental variables, saying that their impact would be the same. I agreed and said it is true, we do not even know the real impact of such basic things as those.

At 11/28/08 12:17 PM, Rideo wrote:
First case of cancer found in 1500 BC (Egypt)

Notice how I said since the first tools. As in, since cavemen invented the first technology.

That's ridiculous though.

[aninjaman]

The government does study these things.
They take the natural cure, find what helps, and turn it into a more effective pill form.
Where do you think they get their ideas for what to put in pills?

[homor]

At 11/28/08 07:27 PM, aninjaman wrote: Where do you think they get their ideas for what to put in pills?

according to Kevin Truaude:

ZHEY COME, FROM ZE ZIONIST ALIEN MUSLIM ATHIEST COMMIE PIG DOG CONSPIACY, GIVES ME YOUR MONZEY.

[Alphabit]

Most drugs out there do not resolve anything, they merely mask the symptoms so I think it's always wise to consult with a Natural Therapist so really solve the problems... Drug companied like to make people think that there are immediate solutions to their problems, but the truth is that many of these problems can be cured over long periods of time through healthy diets
Additionally, claims have been made that phytoplankton has anti-cancerous therapeutic effects; sometimes, it seems that the chemicals we need to cure ourselves can be found in nature.

[homor]

At 11/29/08 05:00 AM, Alphabit wrote: Most drugs out there do not resolve anything,

which is why Polio, Small Pox, Cow pox, (just to name the ones i can guess off the top of my head) have all been cured by modern medicene.

but to your credit, look at all the diaeses pure nature has fixed:

...
...
...

[CaiWengi]

Look at how much life expectancy has increased since the beggining of modern science.

[JackPhantasm]

The obvious statements about natural cures are nice, but I think this documentary focuses on one scientist in particular.

[aninjaman]

At 11/29/08 05:00 AM, Alphabit wrote: Most drugs out there do not resolve anything, they merely mask the symptoms so I think it's always wise to consult with a Natural Therapist so really solve the problems...

Because natural cures instanly solve problems. Of course most medicine only masks symptoms but natural cures don't do much either.

Drug companied like to make people think that there are immediate solutions to their problems, but the truth is that many of these problems can be cured over long periods of time through healthy diets

Healthy diets don't cure disease as much as it prevents you from getting disease/

Additionally, claims have been made that phytoplankton has anti-cancerous therapeutic effects; sometimes, it seems that the chemicals we need to cure ourselves can be found in nature.

All chemicals are found in nature. Most medicine is made by taking things that cure you from nature and putting it into a concentrated pill form.