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At 11/23/08 10:30 PM, heroicspatula wrote: Here's a video report

Now i'm really shocked.
It was a black kid?
I figured it was some emo scene bitch...

Yes because everyone who has ever killed themself conformed to one minute and unrealistic social stereotype. Sadness and mental illness both have nothing to do race or social grouping.

Ya it is sad people egged him on, but what about his right to take his own life. I mean if he really wanted to be dead, why deny him the pleasure? Why make him spend another second in this god forsaken world? Its hard not to be depressed with the current state of things, let alone college life. God i can't take it anymore...its over for me...bluuuggghhh....

At 11/23/08 11:52 PM, Nitroglys wrote: Ya it is sad people egged him on, but what about his right to take his own life. I mean if he really wanted to be dead, why deny him the pleasure?

I agree that everyone has the right to kill themself should they choose, but it's just an immoral and terrible thing to do to encourage them. I mean, it's one thing to say that people should stop whining about how they're going to kill themself and actually do it, but it's another entirely to watch someone prepare to actually commit suicide and egg them on. I don't believe that the people who encouraged this kid should be punished, as free speech is our most important right, but it's still an entirely asinine and immoral thing to do.

At 11/24/08 12:33 AM, catman03 wrote:

At 11/23/08 11:52 PM, Nitroglys wrote:

I don't believe that the people who encouraged this kid should be punished, as free speech is our most important right, but it's still an entirely asinine and immoral thing to do.

I agree that's it an asinine and immoral thing to do, but about our free speech: Where do we draw the line? I mean, yes we have free speech, but let's say Kirk repeatedly urged Mark to commit suicide. I'm talking, he's calling him up everyday half-hour and telling him to kill himself. Is it really Mark's fault that he killed himself? Yes we can argue "But ULTIMATELY it was Mark's choice blah blah blah," but having someone pop pills in their mouth then forcing or egging them to swallow is still murder. You could say "But at LEAST it was still his choice to pull the trigger and blah blah blah," but seriously, where does it end?

1 guy dies but its on webcam so hes famous and everyone cares about him...he wasted his life. He had good opportunities something that other people in the world will never have...

Messed up.

At 11/24/08 12:49 AM, MultiCanimefan wrote:

At 11/24/08 12:33 AM, catman03 wrote:

At 11/23/08 11:52 PM, Nitroglys wrote:

I don't believe that the people who encouraged this kid should be punished, as free speech is our most important right, but it's still an entirely asinine and immoral thing to do.

I agree that's it an asinine and immoral thing to do, but about our free speech: Where do we draw the line? I mean, yes we have free speech, but let's say Kirk repeatedly urged Mark to commit suicide. I'm talking, he's calling him up everyday half-hour and telling him to kill himself. Is it really Mark's fault that he killed himself? Yes we can argue "But ULTIMATELY it was Mark's choice blah blah blah," but having someone pop pills in their mouth then forcing or egging them to swallow is still murder. You could say "But at LEAST it was still his choice to pull the trigger and blah blah blah," but seriously, where does it end?

I believe that freedom of speech should have no limits. I mean, you point out the fact that ultimately it is someone's decision to kill themselves or not, regardless of anyone else's urgings, but that really is true. You can't kill someone with free speech no matter what you say because they always have the choice not to listen. I mean yes, there's peer pressure involved, but ultimately it is the person themself who is responding to that pressure. In your example, for instance, if Kirk is calling Mark twice a day telling him to commit suicide, it's still Mark's decision. Mark can always just ignore the call, hang up on Kirk, or just write him off as a jackass. Free speech can never hurt anyone, but rather people who act based on statements made by others can. Another example: Kill your friends. Do it. Right now. Go kill them, rape their parents and burn their houses. Why? BECAUSE I SAID SO. Now: are they dead? Have you done all of those terrible things? No, or at least I really doubt it. I haven't hurt any of them by saying these things. And even if you actually did do those things, it would be your fault not mine, because you would be the one who acted. I was joking. If you took me too literally and were actually fucked up in the head enough to go do those blatantly immoral things just because I said so, then it's your fault. I should not be punished.

At 11/23/08 10:40 AM, Conspiracy3 wrote:

At 11/22/08 11:25 PM, chiefindomer wrote:

At 11/22/08 07:30 PM, marchohare wrote:

Who said he was depressed? There are other reasons people kill themselves. For all we know he might have had a good reason. Leave people in charge of their own lives. If he wants to kill hemself let him do it.

He was bipolar didn't you click the link? In my opinion there's no such thing as a good reason to kill yourself. Haven't you ever heard of people who tried to commit suicide but were saved and ended up turning their life around and living a good life? If everybody thought the way you did those people would never have a chance. They would say "I want to kill myself." and then you would reply "OK go ahead, it's your life." There's just something that seems fucked up about that.

At 11/23/08 11:10 PM, catman03 wrote:

At 11/23/08 10:30 PM, heroicspatula wrote: Here's a video report

Now i'm really shocked.
It was a black kid?
I figured it was some emo scene bitch...

Yes because everyone who has ever killed themself conformed to one minute and unrealistic social stereotype. Sadness and mental illness both have nothing to do race or social grouping.

I was trying to make light of the situation, and the fact that the majority of suicides are white males emo's just seem to fit the suicidal model for "group of people that would kill themselves on webcam"

Again, just making a small joke.

Frankly, I think denying people the right to kill themselves is based purely upon greed. The kid's dad is only fucked up because he invested 19 years in this kid, and never got a return on his investment. The father viewed his son as PROPERTY, and that's why he wants to sue; to recoup on his investment.

THAT is some sick shit. There are 6.6 billion people on this planet, which is too many by any account. IF someone wants to kill themselves in a peacable way, and are of the age of consent (18) THEY SHOULD BE ALLOWED TO. So the kid cashed out on attention in the last moments before his death. That's his prerogitive; it's his death, he can do what he wants with it.

I think the only reason people are so horrified by this is because they can easily see themselves in his situation, and are scared somone may convince THEM to kill themselves. I've known two people who committed suicide. One was a close relative who had terminal brain cancer. That's a pretty legitimate reason. The other was... well, a war criminal from vietnam who adopted autistic children for the welfare checks and never worked an honest day I knew him. Again... a justified suicide.

Were there some wiser ways for this kid to use his life? Probably. But it's his life, and he CHOSE of his own accord to end it, and if anything, WE'RE the ones in the wrong for trying to take that away from him.

At 11/24/08 02:23 AM, catman03 wrote:

At 11/24/08 12:49 AM, MultiCanimefan wrote:

At 11/24/08 12:33 AM, catman03 wrote:

At 11/23/08 11:52 PM, Nitroglys wrote:

In your example, for instance, if Kirk is calling Mark twice a day telling him to commit suicide, it's still Mark's decision. Mark can always just ignore the call, hang up on Kirk, or just write him off as a jackass.

Ok, point taken.

Free speech can never hurt anyone, but rather people who act based on statements made by others can. Another example: Kill your friends. Do it. Right now. Go kill them, rape their parents and burn their houses. Why? BECAUSE I SAID SO. Now: are they dead? Have you done all of those terrible things? No, or at least I really doubt it. I haven't hurt any of them by saying these things. And even if you actually did do those things, it would be your fault not mine, because you would be the one who acted. I was joking. If you took me too literally and were actually fucked up in the head enough to go do those blatantly immoral things just because I said so, then it's your fault.

I know that it is ultimately someone's decision to so whatever they want, but why even take the chance in telling them to do such a thing? You don't know if they are that fucked up to do that, so why even risk it? What, because you feel like it? Are you that miserable that you need to joke about people killing themselves? Does one actually get off on being mean, hateful, and downright evil to do such a thing? I think the person who urges someone to kill themselves is more fucked up than the person who listened to them. Remember, Charles Manson never killed anyone, but why is he in jail? Oh, yeah.

I should not be punished.

But the guilt would probably be worse than anything else. Unless of course you don't feel it, which in my opinion is pretty fucked up.

At 11/23/08 07:10 PM, Korriken wrote: I've seen it and I've said it. only weak willed people kill themselves. I was homeless for a year back in 2005, was I miserable? yes. was I depressed? hell yeah! did I kill myself? no. If you hate yourself, it can be solved in better ways than killing yourself. I still think my life is shit, but in time I can fix that. In our world of instant gratification, no one has any patience. They want it "RIGHT HERE, RIGHT NOW!" They don't want to wait for what they want. Much like the people who kill themselves over losing a girlfriend/boyfriend. losing a significant other isn't the end of the world, there are other people out there.

Suicide is the easy way out of a fixable situation.

1. not all situations are fixable
2. Suicide is not always about solving your problems
3. suicide is not always about depression

there are many other reasons people commit suicide. Political statements. Honor (in some societies such as Rome and Feudal japan), Religion, Glory, etc.

At 11/24/08 11:25 AM, FUNKbrs wrote: IF someone wants to kill themselves in a peacable way, and are of the age of consent (18) THEY SHOULD BE ALLOWED TO.

Well, and of course they are. Talk about something you can't legislate! Of all the silly laws on the books, laws against suicide have to be some of the silliest. I see my own home state, Oklahoma, still had a law against it in 1963. I wonder if it still does? They're always making me proud.

The 10th Century Brits had about as good a deterrent as I can imagine: surviving relatives inherited nothing. The government seized the entire estate of anyone who committed suicide. The body was subjected to public indignities, and finally given ignominious burial. Maybe if the U.S. becomes the Christian theocracy so many fundamentalists want, all that could make a comeback.

Wouldn't that make a great TV show? Corpse humiliation! I'll bet you could find a lot of folks in Jerry Springer's audience willing to go on national television and do nasty things to dead bodies.

The ratings would probably be huge as well.

At 11/24/08 11:25 AM, FUNKbrs wrote: Frankly, I think denying people the right to kill themselves is based purely upon greed. The kid's dad is only fucked up because he invested 19 years in this kid, and never got a return on his investment. The father viewed his son as PROPERTY, and that's why he wants to sue; to recoup on his investment.

I never thought I'd say this but...I agree with FUNKbrs. He's absolutely right that that's probably what's going on. That kid deserves the right to kill himself, and so does everybody else. The father doesn't need to sue somebody just so he can feel like his kid gave something back. Plus, I definitely agree that many people view their kids as their property, which is retarded in the first place. People are not property. Wars have been fought over this, and as a society we need to move on.

At 11/24/08 11:59 AM, MultiCanimefan wrote: I know that it is ultimately someone's decision to so whatever they want, but why even take the chance in telling them to do such a thing? You don't know if they are that fucked up to do that, so why even risk it? What, because you feel like it? Are you that miserable that you need to joke about people killing themselves? Does one actually get off on being mean, hateful, and downright evil to do such a thing? I think the person who urges someone to kill themselves is more fucked up than the person who listened to them. Remember, Charles Manson never killed anyone, but why is he in jail? Oh, yeah.

I should not be punished.

But the guilt would probably be worse than anything else. Unless of course you don't feel it, which in my opinion is pretty fucked up.

I wasn't saying that telling someone to kill themselves is by any means an acceptable thing to do. It's immoral and frankly just stupid. But that has nothing to do with the fact that it is ultimately someone's decision to act on that suggestion or not, and because of that free speech should have no limits. While I don't condone something as asinine as telling someone to kill themself, I certainly believe that nobody should be punished for such a thing. That was my point.

Very sad.