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At 11/23/08 12:16 AM, MultiCanimefan wrote:

At 11/22/08 11:41 PM, catman03 wrote: It's a persons prerogative to do whatever they want with their life (excluding things that negatively influence others without their permission) and that includes ending it.

Heh, why the exception? Ever consider that maybe, maybe killing yourself is a negative influence on other people?

If I eat the last piece of pie it's a negative influence on other people. If I get a good job, it'll make other people jealous, which is a negative influence. If I turn out gay my parents would be devastated, so that's a negative influence. Should I not be allowed to eat pie, get a good job, or be gay?

If it doesn't cause physical or fiscal harm to others, then I should be able to do what I want to myself. Emotional damages are bullshit. I'll off myself if I feel like it.

At 11/22/08 11:53 PM, chiefindomer wrote:

At 11/22/08 11:41 PM, catman03 wrote:

At 11/22/08 11:25 PM, chiefindomer wrote:

At 11/22/08 07:30 PM, marchohare wrote:

Mental illness as a diagnosis of behavioral problems is almost always bullshit. If someone kills themselves they most likely don't have the emotional stability to handle life, which is nobody's fault but their own. And most mental illnesses are bullshit anyway, with some notable exceptions such as Alzheimer's and autism. If someone is depressed chances are its either just their personality and thus nobody's fault, or a natural reaction to some external stimulus. Either way it's not something that needs curing. If someone WANTS to be drugged and sit through therapy to reach the socially acceptable level of satisfaction with their life than that's fine, but considering most people who kill themselves have expressed no desire to do such I see no reason why anyone should care if they kill themselves. It's a persons prerogative to do whatever they want with their life (excluding things that negatively influence others without their permission) and that includes ending it.

Well maybe someone close to you will go through depression sometime and decide to kill themself. Maybe that will change the way you think. Or will you still think "Oh well they were weak, I don't care."
I know people who went through depression and without medical help they might have ended up the same way this kid did. So you'll have to forgive me if I think everything you just typed is ridiculous.

I wasn't saying that mental illness didn't exist, or that depressed people shouldn't be helped. I was saying that mental illness is incredibly commonly overdiagnosed, to the extent that in most cases someone who is diagnosed as such is not mentally ill but rather just sad, and in such cases it's their own fault should they kill themselves. That's not to say that mental illness is a myth, nor is it to say that depressed people shouldn't be helped.

At 11/23/08 12:16 AM, MultiCanimefan wrote:

At 11/22/08 11:41 PM, catman03 wrote:

At 11/22/08 11:25 PM, chiefindomer wrote:

At 11/22/08 07:30 PM, marchohare wrote:

Mental illness as a diagnosis of behavioral problems is almost always bullshit.

I agree, a person needs to undergo cognitive analysis and other tests and not be diagnosed just by
behavior.

Yeah, mental illnesses are entirely over-diagnosed. Everybody's fucked up in their own little ways, they don't all have some disorder.

If someone kills themselves they most likely don't have the emotional stability to handle life, which is nobody's fault but their own.

If something happened to them that they couldn't control, then it's not their fault it's the way they
are.

That is true, but unrelated. I wasn't referring to extreme cases where the person has undergone some potent trauma, but rather to those where the person killed themselves because of a lack of the ability to deal with life in general. That is nobody's fault but the person themself's.

And most mental illnesses are bullshit anyway, with some notable exceptions such as Alzheimer's and autism.

Autism is by far the most over-diagnosed mental illness of the 21st century, but it does exist.

That was my point.

Legitimate mental illnesses include all illnesses which clearly show an abnormality of the brain,

That bit I would debate. The definition is valid, but in terms of what is and is not an "illness" I would say that many people are considered to be mentally ill when in reality their personality is just unique in a minutely fucked up way. Something that may not require drugging, and we need not necessarily care about in terms of blaming those around the person should they kill themself.

such as Parkinson's or Alzheimer's like you said and those that are shown by poor test results
from the tests I mentioned before. We can't look at everybody who is depressed and say "What a
little Emo bitch."

I agree, but I would argue that the majority of cases of depression (using the term to refer to diagnoses of the mental illness) are not caused by any abnormality in the person beyond the normal bounds of personality variation, but rather by differences in personality or by a reasonable response to external stimuli. Which is not to say that the latter is not bad, but rather that it's not a mental illness that can be cured by drugs, but instead a rational emotional response that one might need help coping with.

If someone is depressed chances are its either just their personality and thus nobody's fault, or a natural reaction to some external stimulus. Either way it's not something that needs curing.

Apparently it is if people overcome their depression. If it's their personality, that's not something
that changes.

That's not what I meant exactly. I meant more that it is possible (indeed common) for a perfectly reasonable and mentally healthy individual to become depressed (using the term to refer to great sadness and lack of interest in activity) without having any mental disorder. In such cases it's nobody's fault but their own for them not having the ability to deal with life. And obviously people can overcome their depression but I'm saying that it's only the person themself's fault if they can't, generally. Obviously all of these statements are invalidated in extreme cases.

If someone WANTS to be drugged and sit through therapy to reach the socially acceptable level of satisfaction with their life than that's fine, but considering most people who kill themselves have expressed no desire to do such I see no reason why anyone should care if they kill themselves.

Let's say your best friend or family member, the person you always turn to for help with everything
and anything, is thinking about killing themselves. You're honestly going to sit there and be like
"Pfftt, not my problem."

That's not what I was trying to say! My point was that the vast majority of cases in which suicide is blamed upon mental illness, the person is not mentally ill but rather just depressed in terms of being very sad. And in almost all of those cases it's that person's fault (if anybody's) rather than anything or anybody external. That's NOT to say that those people shouldn't be helped.

At 11/23/08 12:16 AM, MultiCanimefan wrote:

At 11/22/08 11:41 PM, catman03 wrote: It's a persons prerogative to do whatever they want with their life (excluding things that negatively influence others without their permission) and that includes ending it.

Heh, why the exception? Ever consider that maybe, maybe killing yourself is a negative influence on
other people?

See below.

At 11/23/08 01:48 AM, BetaOrionis wrote:

At 11/23/08 12:16 AM, MultiCanimefan wrote:

At 11/22/08 11:41 PM, catman03 wrote: It's a persons prerogative to do whatever they want with their life (excluding things that negatively influence others without their permission) and that includes ending it.

Heh, why the exception? Ever consider that maybe, maybe killing yourself is a negative influence

on other people?
If I eat the last piece of pie it's a negative influence on other people. If I get a good job, it'll make
other people jealous, which is a negative influence. If I turn out gay my parents would be devastated,
so that's a negative influence. Should I not be allowed to eat pie, get a good job, or be gay?

I was outlining a general rule, not giving advice on how to live one's life.

If it doesn't cause physical or fiscal harm to others, then I should be able to do what I want to myself. Emotional damages are bullshit. I'll off myself if I feel like it.

I agree. That was essentially my point.

At 11/23/08 03:05 AM, catman03 wrote:

At 11/22/08 11:53 PM, chiefindomer wrote:

At 11/22/08 11:41 PM, catman03 wrote:

At 11/22/08 11:25 PM, chiefindomer wrote:

At 11/22/08 07:30 PM, marchohare wrote:

I wasn't saying that mental illness didn't exist, or that depressed people shouldn't be helped. I was saying that mental illness is incredibly commonly overdiagnosed, to the extent that in most cases someone who is diagnosed as such is not mentally ill but rather just sad, and in such cases it's their own fault should they kill themselves. That's not to say that mental illness is a myth, nor is it to say that depressed people shouldn't be helped.

:.

I have been sad plenty of times, never tried to kill myself though. Being a little sad is not what causes people to kill themselves, if it was there would be a lot more suicides. Depression is on a whole new level than just being sad. Being depressed to the point you want to end your own life is not the normal thing your trying to make it out to be. Anybody that is willing to commit suicide has something seriously wrong with them.

Surprised I havent seen more stories like that actually. Doesn't matter much though, the important fact is the kid is dead that is what the parents and everyone else related should focus on, and everyone else should bugger out..

Speaking of which *buggers off XD*

At 11/22/08 11:25 PM, chiefindomer wrote:

At 11/22/08 07:30 PM, marchohare wrote:

And why are so few blaming the kid who did it? He's the one who murdered himself.

He obviously wasn't right in the head if he killed himself. How can you blame him for having a mental illness. I guess it's his fault he had depression, he should have just snapped his fingers and cured himself instead of committing suicide.

Who said he was depressed? There are other reasons people kill themselves. For all we know he might have had a good reason. Leave people in charge of their own lives. If he wants to kill hemself let him do it.

yay public suicide, no actually why the fuck did he do that???

At 11/23/08 03:05 AM, catman03 wrote:

At 11/22/08 11:53 PM, chiefindomer wrote:

At 11/22/08 11:41 PM, catman03 wrote:

At 11/22/08 11:25 PM, chiefindomer wrote:

At 11/22/08 07:30 PM, marchohare wrote:

Holy crap, i'm not replying to all that, lmao. But I understand what your point was now, catman.

I'll bet gold to silver ED is having a field day with this piece of news.

I'm amazed the discussion of over-diagnosis has come up. The article flatly stated that the guy was bipolar--quite a bit more serious than clinical depression. I know. My S.O. is bipolar. She tries to manage it with lithium, but it's an uphill fight with daily battles, and some days, she loses.

Bipolar disorder has allowed her to get conned, has gotten her banned from public places, has cost her the best job she ever had, and very possibly cost her her marriage. BPD is serious.

That said, what does regulation of the internet have to do with it?

Before the internet, sadistic idiots used to scream for people on high ledges to jump. Sadistic idiots have always constituted either a majority, or a very loud minority. I still haven't decided which.

Only one thing is certain: sadistic idiocy is far more common than bipolar disorder.

If someone kills himself, bottom line: he did it. I could tell y'all to go kill yourselves right now, but if you do it, I didn't make you. You're simply fucked up.

sucks that his son killed himself and all, but internet sensorship, is this guy serious?? he should probably look in the mirror before passing the buck to the internet when looking to toll out blame...

Those people that urged him to take more drugs are really retarded. I just want to punch them in the face. But then again...they thought he was probably joking about commiting suicide.

I repeat: assholes have been screaming at people on ledges to jump since long before I was born. Did we ban ledges?

Maybe we did, along with windows that open. Contemporary architecture sure makes it look that way.

At 11/23/08 02:30 PM, marchohare wrote: Maybe we did, along with windows that open. Contemporary architecture sure makes it look that way.

Hahaha. Sort of like idiot-proofing household appliances with labels, right? I can recall reading a label on an ironer that says "Do not iron while wearing clothing." Apparently, we live in a world full of idiots.

The thing with BPD is that it can be alleviated with therapy, medication, and mental self-help. That being said, there is, unfortunately, no medication or any cure for stupidity.

At 11/23/08 02:40 PM, Zeistro wrote: ...I can recall reading a label on an ironer that says "Do not iron while wearing clothing."

My personal favorite, which I removed from my own chainsaw, is "DO NOT ATTEMPT TO STOP BLADE WITH HAND."

The thing with BPD is that it can be alleviated with therapy, medication, and mental self-help. That being said, there is, unfortunately, no medication or any cure for stupidity.

True. BPD is still pretty sad and difficult, however. Part of the problem is the manic phase. It reportedly feels wonderful. Medication makes the patient's life relatively "blah." They go off their meds because they miss the rush.

I have to say I'm not surprised something like this has happened. I wouldn't be surprised if people started doing this to get youtube watches or something people can be the most stupid beings on the earth.

holy fuck, people actualy erged him on. damn, this could have been stopped.

It pisses me off how they are instantly looking for a target to sue, "Should the site be responsible,since they were somehow able to intervene?" Hey! Let's sue the people who watched him die!

At 11/23/08 02:30 PM, marchohare wrote: I repeat: assholes have been screaming at people on ledges to jump since long before I was born. Did we ban ledges?

Maybe we did, along with windows that open. Contemporary architecture sure makes it look that way.

The reason skyscrapers do not have opening windows on high floors has nothing to do with suicides. It is because on the very high floors the air pressure inside the building will be greater than the air pressure outside. If a window opened a large burst of air would blow out.

The reason most skyscrapers is because if there are a lot of ledges the highest floors will be tiny.

At 11/23/08 04:15 PM, hippl5 wrote: It pisses me off how they are instantly looking for a target to sue, "Should the site be responsible,since they were somehow able to intervene?" Hey! Let's sue the people who watched him die!

the only one who is responsible is the kid who killed himself. The kid has every right to kill himself. We all have the right to end our life when why and how we want to. His father has no right to complain. If he was paying tuition he might as well celebrate. Less money he has to spend. If not, why does he care?

At 11/21/08 11:31 PM, BetaOrionis wrote: I see no problems here.

you're messed up

At 11/23/08 04:22 PM, Conspiracy3 wrote:

:Less money he has to spend. If not, why does he care?

Well, that is his son. My point isn't really about whether the kid had the right to kill himself, it's that the lawyers are trying find someone to blame for the kid's death.

And just to add on, if I tell you to go kill yourself, or encourage you, and you do it, does that make me responsible for it?

At 11/23/08 05:02 PM, hippl5 wrote: And just to add on, if I tell you to go kill yourself, or encourage you, and you do it, does that make me responsible for it?

no it doesn't. I would be the one to do it. I have every right to say no I won't kill myself. If I chose not to that is my decision.

At 11/23/08 04:19 PM, Conspiracy3 wrote: The reason skyscrapers do not have opening windows on high floors has nothing to do with suicides. It is because on the very high floors the air pressure inside the building will be greater than the air pressure outside. If a window opened a large burst of air would blow out.

You're joking, right?

I hope so.

If not, don't argue with me. I have a pilot's license, and that was stupid.

At 11/23/08 06:46 PM, marchohare wrote:

At 11/23/08 04:19 PM, Conspiracy3 wrote: The reason skyscrapers do not have opening windows on high floors has nothing to do with suicides. It is because on the very high floors the air pressure inside the building will be greater than the air pressure outside. If a window opened a large burst of air would blow out.

You're joking, right?

I hope so.

If not, don't argue with me. I have a pilot's license, and that was stupid.

actually I wasn't joking. on the top of a tall skyscraper there can be as much as 2.5 psi pushing out the windows.

At 11/22/08 11:53 PM, chiefindomer wrote:

Well maybe someone close to you will go through depression sometime and decide to kill themself. Maybe that will change the way you think. Or will you still think "Oh well they were weak, I don't care."

I've seen it and I've said it. only weak willed people kill themselves. I was homeless for a year back in 2005, was I miserable? yes. was I depressed? hell yeah! did I kill myself? no. If you hate yourself, it can be solved in better ways than killing yourself. I still think my life is shit, but in time I can fix that. In our world of instant gratification, no one has any patience. They want it "RIGHT HERE, RIGHT NOW!" They don't want to wait for what they want. Much like the people who kill themselves over losing a girlfriend/boyfriend. losing a significant other isn't the end of the world, there are other people out there.

Suicide is the easy way out of a fixable situation.

LOL PwNd!111111111111111

At 11/23/08 07:05 PM, Conspiracy3 wrote: actually I wasn't joking. on the top of a tall skyscraper there can be as much as 2.5 psi pushing out the windows.

Equalizing that wouldn't hurt anybody, trust me. Hell, I've camped above 12,000 feet. It was funny listening to my supposedly healthy, athletic, non-smoking companions bitch about their altitude sickness. I was fine.

I've flown over those skyscrapers with my windows open. I've literally flipped ashes on them--but not butts, not because I couldn't, but because that would be gauche.

Here's a video report

Now i'm really shocked.
It was a black kid?
I figured it was some emo scene bitch...