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Porn/sex and kids

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poxpower
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Response to Porn/sex and kids Nov. 6th, 2008 @ 09:59 PM Reply

At 11/6/08 09:24 PM, SmilezRoyale wrote:
"about marketers' influence on teen girls. "All this sex gives a misinformed notion of what it means to be grown-up." Studies show that kids who consume this kind of sex in the media inherit more traditional views of gender-boys as dominant, girls as submissive, in the bedroom and beyond."

huh, you don't find that pathetically subjective and vague?
And "more traditional views"? Haha, what does that mean? Like, before porn, people had this view that women were submissive, and now we should blame porn for doing that?

Does not compute


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Proteas
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Response to Porn/sex and kids Nov. 7th, 2008 @ 12:52 AM Reply

At 11/6/08 03:01 PM, poxpower wrote: Doesn't it strike you as extremely arrogant to think that someone disagreeing with you must just be joking?

Not in the least bit. You wrote a piss poor excuse for a topic, backed it up with flimsy egoist logic and ethics, supplied not a bit of evidence to defend your points, would not defend your points because you were constantly shifting the subject to why everyone else was wrong for disagreeing with you, acted intentionally obtuse about the simplest of statements, and wrote off as bullshit even the most liberally written of studies that still contradicted your viewpoint.

You're a troll.


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Response to Porn/sex and kids Nov. 7th, 2008 @ 01:24 AM Reply

At 11/6/08 09:13 PM, poxpower wrote: And no one has yet defined "objectifying a woman". I don't know what the hell it means and I suspect no one else here knows.

So let's look it up!
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sexual_obje ctification

Wow look at that, a turd sandwich once again! I told you guys it was just a matter of opinion, but no, apparently Proteas had determined that "objectification of woman" is really bad and should be avoided. Welcome to the tool shed.

Know the great thing about wiki? The footnotes:
http://www.apa.org/pi/wpo/sexualizations um.html

Yes, it's such a piece of shit matter of opinion that the APA formed a task force to counter the threats.
There's a nice big header there for ya "Evidence for the Sexualization of Girls"

With a reference list a mile fucking long.

" I told you guys it was just a matter of opinion"

EVERY SPECIALIST ON THE SUBJECT DISAGREES WITH YOU.
You'd think with your stance on science as it is, you'd at least hear out something that, what seems like the entire APA, has agreed upon without scoffing and saying "it's bullshit".

Course, I know you. Logic and reason have never been your strong suits.

Let this be the final nail in the coffin:
There's an article from the APA, with references up the ass, stating evidence for, and consequences of the objectification of women.

Pox thinks it's a "turd sandwitch".

Therefore, it can either be concluded that Pox knows more about the subject than every researcher on it, or that he's completely ignoring sound evidence.....much the same way religious people ignore evidence, might I add.

Congrats Pox. You've got as much faith in your own Ego as other people do in God.

Narcissism, thy name is you.


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Response to Porn/sex and kids Nov. 7th, 2008 @ 05:37 PM Reply

At 11/3/08 01:39 AM, poxpower wrote: I don't get any of the arguments for keeping kids away from porn.

Why?
You hear all the time how kids shouldn't see tits on tv or how it would destroy them to stumble on a porn site. But seriously, why? What the fuck are they gonna do?

Stare at the t.v. like a six year old who just saw Santa.

What's the argument for pushing sex ed to as late as possible? As far as I remember, as a kid, me and my friends were pretty keen on seeing a nude pair of tits. It was in fact AWESOME. That is the opposite of "traumatizing".

It makes no sense. You need to teach sex ed. I don't get these people who are against it, they are always crazy Christians who are completely against anything that can be linked to sex. Sex ed. teaches about sexually transmitted diseases, which would get people to stop having sex if it had any effect at all.

And I also don't get the "innocence" argument and how that is tied to sex.

I can tell you as a 15 year old, we are less innocent with regard to sex than any other humans on the face of the planet. Maybe you've forgotten, but bunnies think about sex less than us.

And for that matter, why censor certain web pages and contents for kids? Why can't a 2 year old play Mortal Kombat? What the fuck is he gonna do? Try to uppercut the head of other kids? Kids already beat the shit out of other kids, they don't need video games to get the idea. In fact it's the kids who don't play video games who beat up the ones who play the most games.

The thing about video games is that it is a scapegoat. It is easy to say that if you play GTA you will steal a car, because people have lost the ability to think for themselves. Anyone who wants to argue about that, answer me this, where did the people from GTA get the idea for carjackings? Video games did not invent violence, if anything they give you an idea of what it is really like.

EXPLAIN THIS UNIVERSE WE LIVE IN TO ME

I would, but I am still trying to figure it out.


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poxpower
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Response to Porn/sex and kids Nov. 7th, 2008 @ 09:48 PM Reply

At 11/7/08 01:24 AM, Imperator wrote:
Know the great thing about wiki? The footnotes:
http://www.apa.org/pi/wpo/sexualizations um.html

Yes, it's such a piece of shit matter of opinion that the APA formed a task force to counter the threats.

Haha did you read that article? That was published by a panel composed entirely of women apparently. Didn't know science was gender-biased.

You know what? If women aren't content with the state of media, then they can start their own businesses and set the trends themselves instead of trying to appeal to authority to get a shortcut and decide what goes on in magazines, movies, commercials, games etc. They have all the same fucking rights as men AND MORE but they're STILL complaining. So far the biggest "danger" is that girls are depressed and distracted about their image.
OH PLEASE, ANYTHING BUT THAT! God forbid they'd join a gym! NOOO! Losing weight? Insane I tell you!

Btw it would be so funny if the situation was reversed and women had all the smart jobs and men were sluts and they still complained that women aren't ever shown as desired by men. "oh women in movies and on tv are always seen chasing men like fools! That is ridiculous and gives a clear bias that women are sex-craving losers! Many women seek sex in early years at all costs, making relations terrible! boohoo!"

This whole movement is just a double-standard and completely biased.

When's the last time you saw a stupid woman on tv or in a movie? When's the last time you saw a woman just fall in love completely with a man in a movie? No, there's always this bullshit where the guy is an idiot and the girl resists and taunts endlessly, all the while showing how smart, capable and independant she is. But the second she shows a piece of skin, then OH NO SHE'S BEING OBJECTIFIED, YOU'VE CORRUPTED A GENERATION OF GIRLS WHO'LL CHOOSE STUPID JOBS LIKE PSYCHOLOGIST INSTEAD OF GOING INTO MATHS AND CHEMISTRY.

This is BULLSHIT.

Btw what does this have to do with the effects of a kid seeing an eyefull of tits again?


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Response to Porn/sex and kids Nov. 7th, 2008 @ 09:57 PM Reply

At 11/7/08 09:48 PM, poxpower wrote:
At 11/7/08 01:24 AM, Imperator wrote:
No, there's always this bullshit where the guy is an idiot and the girl resists and taunts endlessly, all the while showing how smart, capable and independant she is...

Btw what does this have to do with the effects of a kid seeing an eyefull of tits again?

Tit's are a tease object the moment a child stops suckling? ... *shrugs*

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Response to Porn/sex and kids Nov. 7th, 2008 @ 10:22 PM Reply

The problem is contradiction. Allowing children to see porn contradicts the puritan values that our country was unfortunately founded upon, and would also contradict the church's claim that premarital sex is sinful, and that lust is the work of the devil. Honestly if our society didn't have its head shoved so far up its own ass in regards to what is illegal and taboo (I refer to things such as marijuana laws and the recent law that if a cigarette is smoked in a movie it automaticaly gets an "R" rating... cmon people) than it wouldn't be such a suprise to a child when they first discover what sex is. We have parents telling their children that there is a freaking stork droping kids down the chimney. There is very little difference in the problems caused by a child in our society first discovering porn and the problems caused in a child discovering santa claus and the tooth fairy are not real. Same basic principal, but the church and our society add a whole other level of discomfort and awkwardness to the situation.


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Imperator
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Response to Porn/sex and kids Nov. 8th, 2008 @ 12:22 AM Reply

At 11/7/08 09:48 PM, poxpower wrote: Haha did you read that article? That was published by a panel composed entirely of DOCTORS apparently.

Fixed.

Course the fact that "Ph.D" appears after their names means nothing I suppose....

This whole movement is just a double-standard and completely biased.

Ok. I think I've heard just about enough.
Why don't YOU tell ME what it's gonna take for you to change your views?

On second thought, don't. I already know the answer:
The only thing that would get you to admit you're full of shit is if the hand of God that you don't believe in came down and slapped the Ego off your face.

This is BULLSHIT.

Yes. I pull an article with SIX doctors, citing research a mile long. But Pox says otherwise. Course, who are a bunch of chicks to argue with him? It's obviously just a biased female ploy. The fact that they're all DOCTORS is just a clever ruse to disguise their findings.

Btw what does this have to do with the effects of a kid seeing an eyefull of tits again?

It has to do with your own bias, and the fact that you reject anything that you're uncomfortable with, regardless of how scientifically secure it actually is.

Proteas is entirely correct, you're trolling. You ignored the fact the article is written by Doctors, well sourced, and coming from a more than repudable site.

The only reason I can possibly see you denying something about as scientifically sound as fucking gravity is if you were just trying to be a complete dick, trolling the boards looking to infuriate people.

So instead of continuing, I'm just gonna list the research the article cites, so everyone else can see just how deficient your argument really is. Cheers asshat.

Once again, the article that you find is bullshit.
http://www.apa.org/pi/wpo/sexualizations um.html
From the APA, written by 6 doctorates.

Their sources:
Abramson, E., & Valene, P. (1991). Media use, dietary restraint, bulimia, and attitudes toward obesity: A preliminary study. British Review of Bulimia and Anorexia Nervosa, 5, 73-76.

Brotto, L., Heiman, J., & Tolman, D. (in press). Towards conceptualizing women's desires: A mixed methods study. Journal of Sex Research.

Brown, L. M., & Gilligan, C. (1992). Meeting at the crossroads: Women's psychology and girls' development. Cambridge, MA: Harvard University Press.

Durkin, S. J., & Paxton, S. J. (2002). Predictors of vulnerability to reduced body image satisfaction and psychological well-being in response to exposure to idealized female media images in adolescent girls. Journal of Psychosomatic Research, 53, 995-1005.

Eder, D. (with Evans, C. C., & Parker, S). (1995). School talk: Gender and adolescent culture. New Brunswick, NJ: Rutgers University Press.

Fredrickson, B. L., & Roberts,T-A. (1997). Objectification theory: Toward understanding women's lived experience and mental health risks. Psychology of Women Quarterly, 21, 173-206.

Fredrickson, B. L., Roberts,T., Noll, S. M., Quinn, D. M., & Twenge, J.M. (1998). That swimsuit becomes you: Sex differences in self-objectification, restrained eating, and math performance. Journal of Personality and Social Psychology, 75, 269-284.

Gapinski, K. D., Brownell, K. D., & LaFrance,M. (2003). Body objectification and "fat talk": Effects on emotion, motivation, and cognitive performance. Sex Roles, 48, 377-388.

Gow, J. (1996). Reconsidering gender roles on MTV: Depictions in the most popular music videos of the early 1990s. Communication Reports, 9, 151-161.

Grauerholz, E., & King, A. (1997). Primetime sexual harassment. Violence Against Women, 3, 129-148.

Harrison, K. (2000).The body electric: Thin-ideal media and eating disorders in adolescents. Journal of Communication, 50, 119-143.

Hebl, M. R., King, E. G., & Lin, J. (2004). The swimsuit becomes us all: Ethnicity, gender, and vulnerability to selfobjectification. Personality and Social Psychology Bulletin, 30, 1322-1331.

Hofschire, L. J., & Greenberg, B. S. (2001). Media's impact on adolescents' body dissatisfaction. In J. D. Brown & J. R. Steele (Eds.), Sexual teens, sexual media (pp. 125-149). Mahwah, NJ: Erlbaum.

Impett, E. A., Schooler, D., & Tolman, D. L. (2006). To be seen and not heard: Femininity ideology and adolescent girls' sexual health. Archives of Sexual Behavior, 21, 628-646.

Krassas, N., Blauwkamp, J. M., & Wesselink, P. (2001). Boxing Helena and corseting Eunice: Sexual rhetoric in Cosmopolitan and Playboy magazines. Sex Roles, 44, 751-771.

Krassas, N. R., Blauwkamp, J. M., & Wesselink, P. (2003). "Master your Johnson": Sexual rhetoric in Maxim and Stuff magazines. Sexuality & Culture, 7, 98-119.

Lin, C. (1997). Beefcake versus cheesecake in the 1990s: Sexist portrayals of both genders in television commercials. Howard Journal of Communications, 8, 237-249.

Martin, K. A. (1998). Becoming a gendered body: Practices in preschools. American Sociological Review, 63, 494-511.

McConnell, C. (2001). An object to herself: The relationship between girls and their bodies. Dissertation Abstracts International, 61(8B), p. 4416.

McKinley, N. M., & Hyde, J. S. (1996). The Objectified Body Consciousness Scale. Psychology of Women Quarterly, 20, 181-215.

Mills, J., Polivy, J., Herman, C. P., & Tiggemann, M. (2002). Effects of exposure to thin media images: Evidence of selfenhancement among restrained eaters. Personality and Social Psychology Bulletin, 28, 1687-1699.

Nichter, M. (2000). Fat talk: What girls and their parents say about dieting. Cambridge, MA: Harvard University Press.

O'Donohue, W., Gold, S. R., & McKay, J. S. (1997). Children as sexual objects: Historical and gender trends in magazines. Sexual Abuse: Journal of Research & Treatment, 9, 291-301.

Plous, S., & Neptune, D. (1997). Racial and gender biases in magazine advertising: A content analytic study. Psychology of Women Quarterly, 21, 627-644.

Rolón-Dow, R. (2004). Seduced by images: Identity and schooling in the lives of Puerto Rican girls. Anthropology and Education Quarterly, 35, 8-29.

Schooler, D., & Ward, L.M. (2006).Average joes: Men's relationships with media, real bodies, and sexuality. Psychology of Men and Masculinity, 7, 27-41.

Slater, A., & Tiggemann, M. (2002). A test of objectification theory in adolescent girls. Sex Roles, 46, 343-349.

Stice, E., Schupak-Neuberg, E., Shaw, H., & Stein, R. (1994). Relation of media exposure to eating disorder symptomatology: An examination of mediating mechanisms. Journal of Abnormal Psychology, 103, 836-840.

Thomsen, S. R.,Weber,M.M., & Brown, L. B. (2002).The relationship between reading beauty and fashion magazines and the use of pathogenic dieting methods among adolescent females. Adolescence, 37, 1-18.

Vincent, R. C. (1989). Clio's consciousness raised? Portrayal of women in rock videos, re-examined. Journalism Quarterly, 66, 155-160.

Ward, L. M. (1995). Talking about sex: Common themes about sexuality in the prime-time television programs children and adolescents view most. Journal of Youth & Adolescence, 24, 595-615.

Ward, L. M. (2002). Does television exposure affect emerging adults' attitudes and assumptions about sexual relationships? Correlational and experimental confirmation. Journal of Youth and Adolescence, 31, 1-15.

Ward, L. M. (2004). Wading through the stereotypes: Positive and negative associations between media use and Black adolescents' conceptions of self. Developmental Psychology, 40, 284-294.

Ward, L. M., & Rivadeneyra, R. (1999). Contributions of entertainment television to adolescents' sexual attitudes and expectations:The role of viewing amount versus viewer involvement. Journal of Sex Research, 36, 237-249.

Zurbriggen, E. L., & Morgan, E. M. (2006). Who wants to marry a millionaire? Reality dating television programs, attitudes toward sex, and sexual behaviors. Sex Roles, 54, 1-17.


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poxpower
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Response to Porn/sex and kids Nov. 8th, 2008 @ 12:33 AM Reply

At 11/8/08 12:22 AM, Imperator wrote:
Course the fact that "Ph.D" appears after their names means nothing I suppose....

You don't think it's even a slight conflict of interest to have an all-women panel publish an article about how women deserve more respect in society? What's the proportion of doctors or psychologists who are women again?

Pardon me if I find this a LITTLE suspicious.

Why don't YOU tell ME what it's gonna take for you to change your views?

Show me that a kid seeing porn becomes a violent person who actually commits crimes against women.
All the rest is completely subjective as to whether it's good or bad and of no interest to me.

And sources are not relevant WHEN THEY'RE NOT ABOUT THE RIGHT POINTS.


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Response to Porn/sex and kids Nov. 8th, 2008 @ 02:32 AM Reply

At 11/8/08 12:33 AM, poxpower wrote: You don't think it's even a slight conflict of interest to have an all-women panel publish an article about how women deserve more respect in society? What's the proportion of doctors or psychologists who are women again?

Would you think the same thing if the panel were all men?

What basis do you have to question their academic integrity, besides the fact they happen to be women?

Or do you just presume a group of women holding Ph.D's are naturally inclined to be professionally and academically dishonest by virtue of the research topic?

Pardon me if I find this a LITTLE suspicious.

No, I don't think I will. Your entire basis for denying their research, and the references they used is what? A group of women can't write about women without being dishonest in their PROFESSIONAL line of work?

Piss off.
You thought the objectification of women was BS. I think the APA has proven it's point. If you wanna argue, go read through all those links and

Show me that a kid seeing porn becomes a violent person who actually commits crimes against women.

You gotta be shitting me.....
WFT do you want, a fuckin court case or something? The studies aren't good enough, the APA isn't good enough, you want a specific Jon Doe reference pulled from the criminal archives or some shit?

How about this? I'll hold you to this same ridiculous standard of scruitiny the next time you talk about how bad religion is.

All the rest is completely subjective as to whether it's good or bad and of no interest to me.

Yeah, the APA is well known for putting out completely subjective results......

And sources are not relevant WHEN THEY'RE NOT ABOUT THE RIGHT POINTS.

Eg, the points that contradict your entire argument.

We're done.


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Response to Porn/sex and kids Nov. 8th, 2008 @ 02:53 AM Reply

I dont care if kids see porn and stuff. I dont have to deal with them. They can get a limb cut off for all I care.

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Response to Porn/sex and kids Nov. 8th, 2008 @ 09:06 AM Reply

At 11/8/08 02:32 AM, Imperator wrote:
Would you think the same thing if the panel were all men?

No.

What basis do you have to question their academic integrity, besides the fact they happen to be women?

First off, their "findings" are mostly moral judgments. They'll find something out, then declare that it's bad and unfair to women and that it must change, not caring if it's fair to men or the rest of society.
Second: they're human beings and humans are always partial.

You thought the objectification of women was BS.

I don't deny it exists, I just claim that no one should give a shit and they certainly shouldn't start boards who censor and screen all content just because women are insecure about how they look.

You gotta be shitting me.....
WFT do you want, a fuckin court case or something? The studies aren't good enough, the APA isn't good enough, you want a specific Jon Doe reference pulled from the criminal archives or some shit?

All you need is ONE study that CLEARLY demonstrates that exposure to porn makes men act violently towards women and/or children and I don't see that anywhere. It always ALWAYS returns to "men don't respect women as much" which sounds like a total load of bullshit and a cry out for attention. Apparently we should be worshiping women just for existing no matter how many defects they have.


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Response to Porn/sex and kids Nov. 8th, 2008 @ 09:35 AM Reply

<rant rant rant>

I mean think about it honestly, Imperator. You haven't heard all of these arguments before? Haven't you also heard endless comedy routines on the subject?

For instance, women are hot. Now they'll complain if they don't get hired or picked for a job on the basis that they're ugly, but they'll never complain if they get benefits from their status as "really desirable". Wow, job promotion because I have an nice ass? WELL I GUESS I'LL JUST TAKE THAT WITHOUT COMPLAINING.
Wow, I married a rich guy because I'm a hot piece of ass? Well, life is so unfair towards women!
Wait, didn't a woman just run for PRESIDENT and one was VICE PRESIDENT, who was also a total airhead? I bet you there's psychologists somewhere trying to pin the blame on how everyone laughed at Sarah Palin on the fact that she was "objectified" and "sexualized" because she was hot.

And they don't seem to realize how easy it is for a girl/woman to look pretty fucking hot. 95% of thin girls I see on the street, I would date/fuck if I had the chance. It's not that hard to reach the "good looking" barrier and I don't blame anyone but themselves if they can't reach it without going crazy or having eating disorders.

And ever hear men complain about it? Men who work in offices and who get beaten to promotions by hot girls who sleep around? Yeah I don't hear feminists complain about that, unless it's a hot woman who goes higher than a non-hot woman.

And where does it go from there? What do they want? They probably want to eventually get to tell people what's acceptable as a depiction of a woman? Like, she can't be hot on the poster, she can't be stupid in the movie, she can't fail at anything blablabla.

It's stupid. I'm tired of this crap. Girls have an awesome place in society and their shortcomings come strictly from themselves. Just look at the net. Where are girls? What do they do? They're on myspace, facebook and twitter. They play mmorpgs. What do men do? They build websites, write articles, develop games, create movies.

Let's blame "objectification of women" for that instead of fessing up and admitting that women don't have the same general interests as men and that there NEVER WILL BE as many women in hard sciences are there are men AND THAT'S FINE.

Jeez. Women have everything on men now. They can beat a guy, they other guys will just think the victim is a pussy. They can sleep around with kids and get social sympathy even if they're convicted. They can slap men, they can demand social privileges like getting driven around on dates, having doors opened, having their meals paid, getting expensive gifts and jewelry, not having to make the first move, getting a pass when they're angry and they yell and insult etc. all the while having all the same sports teams, career opportunities, voting power, social status etc.
And is there some social movement by men to make sure that women don't discriminate them based on salary or their jobs? Somehow they've decided that it's way cooler to get stereotyped because of your job than because of the way you look. As if it was easier to become a doctor than to lose 20 pounds and show cleavage. And when the guy finally makes it to a high position, it's unfair if HE picks a girl based on looks or whatever the fuck he wants?
Not to mention that this whole "be perfect" thing runs a multi-multi BILLION industry of cosmetics, perfumes, surgery, spas, gyms, treatments etc. etc.

I seriously fail to see what they have to complain about and I don't find it in any of those in articles >:O

END RANT


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Response to Porn/sex and kids Nov. 8th, 2008 @ 09:46 AM Reply

I get where you commin from with this, but you gotta realize, that some people, REALLY ARE THAT STUPID. I know it sound unlikely but people are idiots, and if grown people act as dumb and ignorant as they do, then what the hell do you think some kids who already dont know shit about the world is going to take somthing.

You just cant show a 2 year old stuff like that, at least put it in a propler context for them first, explain it to them so that they'll know what they are seeing.

as for a 2 yr old playin mortal combat, wouldnt a 2 year old be learning better moter skills and learning how to speak?

im just sayin i wouldnt want my kids first word to be TOASTY!!!!

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Response to Porn/sex and kids Nov. 8th, 2008 @ 06:31 PM Reply


Might as well give 8 year olds the right to vote while we're at it.....

its called kids vote, my not count but it gives them a political voice that can just be ignored in the future


i am the fear that resides within, fear me, embrace me, give me power

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Response to Porn/sex and kids Nov. 8th, 2008 @ 08:16 PM Reply

At 11/8/08 09:35 AM, poxpower wrote: <rant rant rant>

What does any of that have to do with little children?

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Response to Porn/sex and kids Nov. 8th, 2008 @ 08:22 PM Reply

At 11/8/08 09:06 AM, poxpower wrote:
Would you think the same thing if the panel were all men?
No.

That's really all I needed to hear.


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Response to Porn/sex and kids Nov. 8th, 2008 @ 10:50 PM Reply

At 11/3/08 01:39 AM, poxpower wrote:

EXPLAIN THIS UNIVERSE WE LIVE IN TO ME

It's a fucked up one mah boi!


I have a penis

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Response to Porn/sex and kids Nov. 8th, 2008 @ 11:07 PM Reply

Imp, sorry for my laziness, but my time hath become precious, so I don't really have it to read through all the articles you've cited... I have a question.

Do any of the studies discuss the relationship between shildren, pornography and social ideals when a parent, guardian or someone else is there to teach them what is what? Basically, if a parent is, y'know, parental, and teaches the child about fantasy, rape, dangers, pleasures and all that stuff, is there any difference from those who view it in a vacuum?

I ask this because people I know all look at porn (hell, those who claim they don't we call "liars"), and all of us are well-adjusted, equal-rights, female-respecting, non-violent, well-adjusted people. It might be a perspective thing, but I see no harm come from my many (many, many) years of pornographic enjoyment, or that of others.

The only thing that I think might have to do with it, is that my parents were parental, and taught me the value of equality and fairness... and, while not specifically about pornography, those lessons certainly apply. Had they been a little less involved, I could see how porn might slant my views.

But should we damn something because people don't properly understand it? Or because parents don't properly prepare their children for such things? It sounds to me like blaming video games for violence, or guns for shootings, rather than a society that values (or doesn't) teaching each other responsibility and knowledge. With the proper parenting, I would bet that viewing pornography at a young age wouldn't have much effect on the social views of a person at all.

And I was wondering if any of the studies you have linked showed such a correlation.

Also, another idea would be the effect of the social stigma attached to sex and nudity in our culture and how that effects people's attitudes towards, and reactions to, pornography.

Ugh... sounds to me like I have some dissertation topics if I ever go into sociology...


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Response to Porn/sex and kids Nov. 8th, 2008 @ 11:09 PM Reply

At 11/8/08 11:07 PM, Ravariel wrote: ...all of us are well-adjusted, equal-rights, female-respecting, non-violent, well-adjusted people.

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Response to Porn/sex and kids Nov. 9th, 2008 @ 12:31 AM Reply

Do any of the studies discuss the relationship between shildren, pornography and social ideals when a parent, guardian or someone else is there to teach them what is what? Basically, if a parent is, y'know, parental, and teaches the child about fantasy, rape, dangers, pleasures and all that stuff, is there any difference from those who view it in a vacuum?

No and I'd be hard pressed to find one, mainly because porn being illegal for kids, such research would have a hard time passing an ethics committee.

The point isn't that with good parents and a safe environment people turn out alright. The point is porn is like everything else.

Whether it's alcohol, pot, cigs, porn, violence, video games, etc, they have an effect.

The research on all these things is pretty clear, right down to violent video games. They have an effect on kids, and it's not a healthy one. Most kids turn out alright, most adults drink responsibly, and most people don't view women as play things.

Is it a major effect? Not necessarily. I grew up in the burbs, good parents, strong schooling, played war games my whole life. Most people can say they're fine as well.

But these things are all regulated so that people ARE responsible enough to handle them.
What possible motivation can drive someone to presume 8 year olds are responsible enough to know about porn, which ANYONE should agree is not necessarily the best representation of sex?

That's my complaint. It's not that I find porn should be banned, it's that I find the age regulation fine as is, and there's absolutely NO reason I see why kids need to be asking mommy and daddy "what's double penetration?"......

Porn is not sex ed, in the same way The Sims is not a workshop on how to make friends, and Sim City isn't "City Planning 101".......

Simply put:
Can a 5th grader handle the following:
How to have safe sex
how to deal with pregnancy
How women should be treated
What constitutes a healthy sexual relationship
What constitutes an unhealthy sexual relationship
What is improper sexual behavior (and why)
What is proper sexual behavior (and why)

More importantly: Should a 5th grader even have to be concerned about the above things?

When the hell did safe sexual procedures; "fantasy, rape, dangers, pleasures and all that stuff" become standard for parenting?

When I was in 5th grade I didn't worry about all that shit, why the hell should I make my kid learn that shit?

Quite frankly, I am a firm believer that kids should be.....KIDS.
I don't know when this attitude of turning 10 year olds into responsible productive members of society became the ideal for childhood, but I think it sucks.
I think kids should know three things:
1.) Don't cross the street without looking both ways
2.) Don't talk to strangers
3.) Momma bear rules the house

Other than that.......how about just lettin the kid be a kid?

I don't think porn should be accessible to kids because kids are not responsible enough to handle the ramifications of proper sexual behavior in Western society, NOR do I think that's something they should even be concerned with.

If you and Pox and whoever the hell else really feel kids should be allowed to see porn at such a young age, you tell me why, because I think kids are growing up faster than they need to already, and parents have enough stress. The birds and the bees talk revolving around PORN of all things should not be on Tuesday's schedule right before peewee baseball.....


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Response to Porn/sex and kids Nov. 9th, 2008 @ 02:20 AM Reply

At 11/8/08 11:07 PM, Ravariel wrote: With the proper parenting, I would bet that viewing pornography at a young age wouldn't have much effect on the social views of a person at all.

That's the thing. Parental involvement is crucial... that's why other things which are age restricted (such as movies) allow underage youths to still view what's going on IF accompanied by an adult. It's not like simply having an adult present will automatically make the kid wiser to what's going on, rather, the adult is there to explain the difference between fantasy and reality as it's applicable to what the movie is presenting.

No one is arguing that, AUTOMATICALLY, kids are going to act deviant after witnessing deviant behavior. The thing is, when you witness such-&-such behavior on a regular basis it stops being "deviant" and starts being "normal" in the eyes of the viewer without proper guidance. THAT is the reason why pornography is potentially harmful... it presents negatives as positives in an environment where it is unlikely that any adult guidance would be contributed. Hell, if kids watched porn with their parents then mayyyyyyyyyybe it WOULD be helpful... however, it isn't, therefore, it's not.

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Response to Porn/sex and kids Nov. 9th, 2008 @ 02:44 AM Reply

At 11/9/08 12:31 AM, Imperator wrote: No and I'd be hard pressed to find one, mainly because porn being illegal for kids, such research would have a hard time passing an ethics committee.

Fair point. :P

The research on all these things is pretty clear, right down to violent video games. They have an effect on kids, and it's not a healthy one. Most kids turn out alright, most adults drink responsibly, and most people don't view women as play things.

I'm not so sure we can call the effect "negative". Without context, and other information, sure it might be, but is that really how we must judge everything? Without context, a kid with a rock can have a negative effect.

But these things are all regulated so that people ARE responsible enough to handle them.

War games are regulated? Shit, I guess we better stop selling 40k to those 10-year-olds! ;-P

My point is this: what place is it for anyone other than parents to regulate these things? I was curious and learning about sex when I was about 11-12. My parents weren't the instigators, nor really the facilitators, of that curiosity, or the ways in which I learned. However, their general demeanor and lessons gave me the basis in which to put the information in context, and use it in a reasonable fashion. Some kids wouldn't start as early, some would start earlier. It's an individual thing.

What possible motivation can drive someone to presume 8 year olds are responsible enough to know about porn, which ANYONE should agree is not necessarily the best representation of sex?

If the child is curious about it, then why not answer the questions he or she has?

That's my complaint. It's not that I find porn should be banned, it's that I find the age regulation fine as is, and there's absolutely NO reason I see why kids need to be asking mommy and daddy "what's double penetration?"......

Lol... my sister asked my dad what a "blowjob" was when she was 8, nearly gave him a coronary. You don't get to choose when those questions pop up. Let the child, him/herself guide the learning. They're remarkable at setting their own pace for learning.

Can a 5th grader handle the following:
How to have safe sex
how to deal with pregnancy
How women should be treated
What constitutes a healthy sexual relationship
What constitutes an unhealthy sexual relationship
What is improper sexual behavior (and why)
What is proper sexual behavior (and why)

Maybe, depends on the 5th grader. I could have handled, had I not died from embarrassment, many of those topics had my parents raised them. While I may not be the most average of folk, I'm sure I'm hardly alone.

More importantly: Should a 5th grader even have to be concerned about the above things?

5th graders... not parents, not society, and certainly not government... decide when they're interested in things. And sometimes, the situation forces itself from outside, through abuse from adults, other kids, and other unpleasantness. Having the ability and the resources to cover these topics, including pornography, is a very important aspect of parenting. Now that's not to say that you'll need to have a copy of Back Door Sluts 9 on hand to illustrate, but a kid WILL find a way to learn about it if he or she becomes interested.

When the hell did safe sexual procedures; "fantasy, rape, dangers, pleasures and all that stuff" become standard for parenting?

From the dawn of time. Sorry, teaching kids about what sex is is one of the basics of parenting.

When I was in 5th grade I didn't worry about all that shit, why the hell should I make my kid learn that shit?

You shouldn't. However, you also shouldn't force them to not learn about it until you're ready. You wait until THEY'RE ready.

I think kids should know three things:
1.) Don't cross the street without looking both ways
2.) Don't talk to strangers
3.) Momma bear rules the house

Other than that.......how about just lettin the kid be a kid?

Fine... now I'm going to have to welcome you to the real world, where shit ain't so neat and clean. What happens when your 10-year-old asks what those magazines at the corner store are? What about the "blocked" channels? What about older siblings/friends showing them stuff. You don't get to choose when they're introduced to porn... however, you CAN prepare them for how to deal with it beforehand (even if not explicitly), and also teach them how to deal afterwards.

I don't think porn should be accessible to kids because kids are not responsible enough to handle the ramifications of proper sexual behavior in Western society, NOR do I think that's something they should even be concerned with.

Again, you're thinking about this like you'll actually be able to block websites from a kid who'll probably be able to design a website by the time he's 5 and can run circles around your lame excuse for a v-chip with a few remote presses. YOU DON'T GET TO CHOOSE. I'm not saying that porn should be marketed or sold to kids.... merely that we as people and parents need to back off the vilification and realize that like it or not, they're going to be exposed, and they'll need information in order to handle it in a healthy way... just like with anything, be it actual sex, making friends (one of the earlier lessons) sharing, fairness, driving a car, getting a job, etc.

If you and Pox and whoever the hell else really feel kids should be allowed to see porn at such a young age, you tell me why, because I think kids are growing up faster than they need to already, and parents have enough stress. The birds and the bees talk revolving around PORN of all things should not be on Tuesday's schedule right before peewee baseball.....

I simply think we need to un-taboo everything about physicality, nudity and sexuality (yes, I realize the futility of that, but still...). Once it's not such a cultural boogey-man, then people, kids especially, will be more able to handle it in a healthy way.


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Response to Porn/sex and kids Nov. 9th, 2008 @ 07:35 AM Reply

At 11/8/08 08:16 PM, Cornbucket wrote:
What does any of that have to do with little children?

Because they claim that porn and the media in general give people the impression that women are sex objects and apparently that is really horrible but I believe it's a double standard and they should shut the fuck up and count their blessings.

At 11/9/08 12:31 AM, Imperator wrote:
No and I'd be hard pressed to find one, mainly because porn being illegal for kids, such research would have a hard time passing an ethics committee.

I told you.

That's my complaint. It's not that I find porn should be banned, it's that I find the age regulation fine as is, and there's absolutely NO reason I see why kids need to be asking mommy and daddy "what's double penetration?"......

I'm also for some regulations, I'm just saying: really, who gives a shit?
I'd shield kids from violence a lot more than I'd shield them from porn too. In fact I'd shield a kid from a horror movie way faster than I'd shield a kid from an ultra-violent movie.

If you and Pox and whoever the hell else really feel kids should be allowed to see porn at such a young age, you tell me why

With the internet, you won't be able to stop them. So I say: instead of struggling to ban, censor and regulate, let's just admit that it's not that bad and move on. The people who seek to ban porn usually expand their censorship like a blazing supernova, including more and more sites that range from "violent" to "time-wasters" to "offensive" etc. Some place like newgrounds could one day be restricted and have to bend over and take it because a giant censorship company that deserves millions of people has decided it's too violent for kids under, I dunno, 13 or 18 or whatever.

You see where I'm going with this? A completely free market of ideas like the internet suddenly has to bend to the will of the moral patrol who base their "findings" on nonexistant studies and exaggerated possible and projected effects.


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