Forum Topic: No privacy in the UK?

(1,079 views • 77 replies)

This topic is 3 pages long. [ 1 | 2 | 3 ]

<< < > >>
None

yurgenburgen

Reply To Post Reply & Quote

Posted at: 10/16/08 05:07 PM

yurgenburgen EVIL LEVEL 27

Sign-Up: 05/28/01

Posts: 13,704

At 10/16/08 04:50 PM, Kirk-Cocaine wrote:
At 10/16/08 04:47 PM, Electric-Bla wrote: It's still a rather nasty trend going on.
Yeah cameras on public transport is a major worry.

Some of the buses round here have a camera at the front of the bus, connected to a TV within the bus, so that the passengers can see what the driver sees as he's driving.

[My Sketchbook] -[Short Story]
My Time Fkuc Levels: 8143, 8145, 8160

BBS Signature

None

cellardoor6

Reply To Post Reply & Quote

Posted at: 10/16/08 05:30 PM

cellardoor6 DARK LEVEL 20

Sign-Up: 04/04/06

Posts: 12,003

At 10/16/08 04:59 PM, Kirk-Cocaine wrote:
At 10/16/08 04:57 PM, cellardoor6 wrote: Relevant.
Nothing to hide, nothing to fear.

Maybe not now.

As far fetched as it seems to people who actually like the concept of government; any government, including yours and mine, could eventually start using things that had a benevolent pretext for something less so. Massive surveillance in form of CCTVs everywhere has all sorts of implications, as does the US Patriotic Act. Even if right now they aren't necessarily being used to squash dissent or anything like that, it could happen.

But don't listen to me, I'm obsessed with dystopia so that could be wishful thinking on my part. Not that I actually want an oppressive government like that, it's just fun to think about.

Yay, Obama won. Let's thank his supporters:
-The compliant mainstream media for their pro-Obama propaganda.
-Black Panthers for their intimidation of voters.

BBS Signature

None

Llama-of-Death

Reply To Post Reply & Quote

Posted at: 10/16/08 05:30 PM

Llama-of-Death EVIL LEVEL 03

Sign-Up: 11/13/00

Posts: 209

I can't believe you UK'ers aren't bothered by this. Allowing your government to monitor innocent people's movements is totally unacceptable. Nothing to worry if nothing to hide? What the hell kind of reasoning is that? You assume everyone on your street is a criminal who deserves to be filmed while buying fruit? You're giving your government power that they will never, EVER give up.

You point out acts of terrorism and stabbings, and instead of saying "Let's empower the public", you say the government should be given more free reign. The real answer to violent crime is allowing the people to protect themselves. The police simply don't have the ability to protect everyone all the time-and they shouldn't. Don't believe me? Just look at the states; across the board, every single state with strict handgun regulation has a higher rate of violent crime. Even in my home state of Illinois, We're having a problem with handgun violence. Why? Because in my state, CCW isn't allowed. The criminals, who ignore handgun laws (duh), know that us law abiding citizens are easy pickings.

Meanwhile, you guys aren't allowed handguns. So what happens? People still kill each other, people still fight with each other. You can't stop crazy people from doing crazy things by passing crazy laws. The only people you end up punishing are the innocent.

No one likes to hear about stabbings, assaults, or shootings, but you have to balance your safety with your freedoms, and you need to realize that the world isn't all rainbows and puppy dogs and be prepared to fend for yourself, to the death if necessary. Open your eyes and grow some fucking balls.

"They who can give up essential liberty to obtain a little temporary safety, deserve neither liberty nor safety."

"Compared to war, all other forms of human endeavor shrink to insignificance."

BBS Signature

None

Earfetish

Reply To Post Reply & Quote

Posted at: 10/16/08 05:42 PM

Earfetish EVIL LEVEL 42

Sign-Up: 10/21/02

Posts: 27,270

At 10/16/08 04:54 PM, Fyndir wrote: It's not like anyone has ever done anything illegal on buses in London anyway.

Right?

yeah cos CCTV prevented that

there has been nothing prevented by CCTV that couldn't have been prevented by better street lighting

we seem to throw our rights away in the UK all the time and no-one cares.

website-last.fm
CLICK MY SIG FOR THE HOTTEST STORIES YOU'LL EVER READ
Livecorpse

BBS Signature

Elated

Fyndir

Reply To Post Reply & Quote

Posted at: 10/16/08 05:57 PM

Fyndir FAB LEVEL 12

Sign-Up: 05/14/04

Posts: 9,847

At 10/16/08 05:42 PM, Earfetish wrote: yeah cos CCTV prevented that

there has been nothing prevented by CCTV that couldn't have been prevented by better street lighting

Nothing will prevent someone from committing a crime if they really want to, short of them happening to run into the police while they're doing it, they don't care if the area is well lit, they don't care if they get seen on camera. The point is that cameras and lighting will help secure convictions of people who do commit crimes.

I would rather know that if some nutjob decides to stab me in the city centre there's some CCTV footage of him that can be used to make sure he gets punished, rather than him just disappearing and a lack of evidence leading to the case being unsolved.

we seem to throw our rights away in the UK all the time and no-one cares.

I know I really value my right to be invisible in public places, it's so cool how when I'm out in public no-one can see me, until they started putting up those CCTV cameras, then all of a sudden when I was out in public I could be SEEN by PEOPLE.

My god it was terrible that first day, I was naked because I didn't realise that people would be able to see me in the middle of the street, and suddenly I walked into an area covered by CCTV and everyone stopped and stared at me.


None

DingoTheDog

Reply To Post Reply & Quote

Posted at: 10/16/08 05:59 PM

DingoTheDog NEUTRAL LEVEL 02

Sign-Up: 06/21/04

Posts: 5,005

They should add special motion sensors to them so they only follow and film black people and people with turbines on their heads. As we are all well aware - Its only foreigners that commit crime.

BBS Signature

None

Earfetish

Reply To Post Reply & Quote

Posted at: 10/16/08 06:45 PM

Earfetish EVIL LEVEL 42

Sign-Up: 10/21/02

Posts: 27,270

At 10/16/08 05:57 PM, Fyndir wrote: I would rather know that if some nutjob decides to stab me in the city centre there's some CCTV footage of him that can be used to make sure he gets punished

I don't even think they catch many people; it's not like other countries need CCTV and it's not like one grainy image will ever secure a conviction anyway, you surely need better evidence and that evidence is probably sufficient by itself.

we seem to throw our rights away in the UK all the time and no-one cares.
I know I really value my right to be invisible in public places

it's not about being invisible in public, it's about the Government (of all people) observing you all the time when you're out in public. And then going and cuffing people who are drinking in public and turning up way too late to help anything else.

Observing everyone's emails is a million steps too far. It's bad enough they look at us without eavesdropping in our conversations. Regardless of the actual content of this legislation it's still about the State observing the citizens to the nth degree.

And you know just as well as me that laws that are supposed to prevent terrorism are used 99% of the time to stifle our rights. First guy arrested under anti-terrorism legislation was that guy who shouted out 'bollocks' when Blair was talking about Iraq.

Are there any rights you wouldn't give away for your own safety? Like it's not an exaggeration to say 'this is the start of a police state'.

If businesses want to have CCTV that's fine, and if you want to walk about with a hidden camera in your hat then that's fine too.

website-last.fm
CLICK MY SIG FOR THE HOTTEST STORIES YOU'LL EVER READ
Livecorpse

BBS Signature

None

C1ph3r

Reply To Post Reply & Quote

Posted at: 10/16/08 06:51 PM

C1ph3r DARK LEVEL 15

Sign-Up: 05/06/08

Posts: 1,550

Fuck the UK. Thank God I'm in America.


None

JT1

Reply To Post Reply & Quote

Posted at: 10/16/08 08:00 PM

JT1 LIGHT LEVEL 18

Sign-Up: 07/23/07

Posts: 422

I completely with Earfetish. I could not say it better wyself.


None

liljim

Reply To Post Reply & Quote

Posted at: 10/16/08 08:18 PM

liljim NEUTRAL LEVEL 27

Sign-Up: 12/16/99

Posts: 8,903

I couldn't give a monkeys about it. I don't do anything I shouldn't be doing.

With respect to cameras all over the place, couldn't care less about that, either. Just over 12 years ago now, I was out in my local town, where someone I went to school was repeatedly punched for no reason by a group of people outside one of the two nightclubs in the town centre (not to mention all the bars, of which there are one of the highest ratios per square mile in this country), before falling the floor and cracking his skull on a kerb. I left that club 10 minutes after they'd taken this kid away in an ambulance.

No-one was ever caught for that, even though the guy was left brain damaged as a result. Who knows, it could have been me if I'd left a little earlier and if it had been, I would want the bastards responsible to be thrown to rot in Jail for a very long time.

The year after, the town got the most sophisticated set of camera systems (at the time) in Europe (and it's not even that violent a town, in comparison with some of the major cities) and that sort of crime tends to be cleared up, those responsible charged and/or actually caught as they're doing it, given that the Police tend to be directed to the scene by the camera operators.

And even if the Police don't turn up as it's happening, the camera operators are able to follow the offenders for miles, which means that they are, more often than not, caught and charged.

I can't see how any of that should cause anyone who's behaving as they should any problems.

With respect to the comment from Llama about "handguns aren't allowed in the UK." They were at one point (and still are, to some extent.) I think the rules surrounding handguns were tightened up after the Dunblane massacre. I'll have to explain that a little more clearly:

If you hold a firearm here, you have to have a license for it (and are subject to certain requirements before you're entitled to own one.) Strict conditions are placed on how you store firearms, too. They HAVE to be locked up in cabinets, etc.

I could be wrong on the exact changes to the law, but after the guy who had gotten a license for his handgun (and I think that in order to get that, even then, he may have even had to have a psychiatric evaluation to ensure whether he was mentally fit to own one) and then marched into a primary school and butchered a bunch of kids, the law was changed so that even those who had licenses to own handguns had to keep them locked away at a shooting club they belonged to, rather than in their homes.

Further to Llama's comment, that "The criminals, who ignore handgun laws (duh), know that us law abiding citizens are easy pickings." That very problem exists here. There have been several documenateries here, which have shown how easy it is to get ahold of one here in the criminal fraternity.

The Rhys Jones Murder trial began this month, an 11 year old kid who was mistakenly shot two years ago has begun here. And the guy who's just gone chiefly on trial (along with a bunch of other guys belonging to the alleged perpetrator's gang) was ONLY caught as a result of the Police being able to track the shooter's movements through CCTV footage. They'd have caught him even more quickly, had the owner of the bar, outside of which this poor kid was shot, agreed to installing CCTV outside his bar when first asked.

It interests me that there have been a few short sighted opinions from people who don't live in the UK in this thread (as well as a few from people in the UK), too. Yeah, we don't allow people to carry handguns. Yeah, we have a lot of CCTV footage. But there are other things we're more liberal on.

For instance, if you're caught with Cannabis (even if without intent to supply, based on whatever amount/plastic bags that you might use to distribute that stuff to 'clients') in the US, you're faced with what? That is a question, rather than a statement. I'm guessing it's more than just a slap on the wrist (which is what you'd get here, if you were caught smoking it, or carrying an arbitrary amount around.)

Same with underage alchohol consumption in many States. Not sure whether this is just a rumour, but I'd heard that the PARENTS of underage drinkers in the US in some States are charged with whatever for their kids' actions. That just wouldn't happen here, unless the offenders were regularly known to Police (and even then, I doubt they'd do much more than slap an ASBO (Anti-Social Behaviour Order, which would just stipluate that if they get caught misbehaving again, they'd get sent to juvenile detention, or whatever).)

A couple of years ago, I needed to renew my passport, since it was about to expire. Around that time, they were announcing plans to introduce a microchip to the newer passports, which would include an iris scan, finger print, photo, etc. I think that just ended up containing a photo, after a bunch of stupid liberals complained that that would contravene human rights, or whatever.

I HATE flying - I get nervous before I get on a plane, and even more nervous as it lands.. and that can last a few hours after I've gotten off the plane.

So, when I fly to Philladelphia to see the guys at the office, I get really agitated weeks and even months before I'm due to go out there. I know once I land, I'm going to have to go through some bullshit fingerprinting, photo-taking, etc through customs. Oh, and I'd have had to make sure that, as an "Alien", which is what everyone who is not a US Citizen is rudely referred to as, I've filled out a couple of forms - one's a visa waiver, the other's something that proclaims that I've not come to cause trouble, intend to stay as an immigrant, or something like that.

That in itself wouldn't be so bad, but there are, I think, 22 customs desks open at Philly airport. 20 are reserved for US Citizens, the other 2 are for everyone else. So you get maybe 30 people on each flight, getting more or less a desk each, and the other 150 or so squeezed into two desks.

I'd have been far happier if I could just have my passport zapped and them know it was me, but them's the breaks.

I travelled over to Prague in June (I think) for my now Brother-in-Law's Stag do (Bachelor party.) He's a pilot and managed to get cheap flights to and from the place, the downside being that we weren't guaranteed on flights we wanted. We ended up having to miss one flight, since it was full, and ended up in the airport bar, waiting for the next flight.

Got the next flight back, though, after having already had a few drinks. Because the flight was with the airline he pilots, he knew all the cabin crew, who kept on supplying us with more booze as we requested it.

We were seated at the front of the plane adjacent to three girls from the US, and after speaking to the captain of the flight we were on (who we both knew), were the first off the flight as it started disembarking.

There was one queue through customs for all European passport holders and another for non-European passport holders.

Our queue was PACKED full of people, the other International queue had just these three girls in the line. They were told by the customs guy that they hadn't filled out similar waivers, which would have been mandatory in the opposite situation. They started kicking off about civil liberties and never having been told that they needed to do all of that on the flight.

I wonder how they'd have felt if they were in my position when I first travelled to Philly, which was essentially the same position as they were in. Except, rather than being at the front of the queue when they were told this, they'd have already waited nearly an hour to get to the customs desk.

Bottom line I'm trying to make when trying to make a judgement on different countries from yours, is respect the country you're trying to evaluate. Don't compare it with your own country, since that just won't work.

If anyone gets through that lot, well done.

BBS Signature

Elated

Fyndir

Reply To Post Reply & Quote

Posted at: 10/16/08 08:53 PM

Fyndir FAB LEVEL 12

Sign-Up: 05/14/04

Posts: 9,847

At 10/16/08 06:45 PM, Earfetish wrote: I don't even think they catch many people; it's not like other countries need CCTV and it's not like one grainy image will ever secure a conviction anyway, you surely need better evidence and that evidence is probably sufficient by itself.

No, but that 'one grainy image' leads the police to question the right person.

And then going and cuffing people who are drinking in public and turning up way too late to help anything else.

Wah.

Drink in your house, not that hard a thing to ask, is it?

Observing everyone's emails is a million steps too far.

Given that all they'll be storing is the same data currently being stored by telecoms companies I don't see the issue.

If they were storing the contents of my emails, I would object, however they are not.

And you know just as well as me that laws that are supposed to prevent terrorism are used 99% of the time to stifle our rights.

Yes, misuse of the law is a concern, but one which should be seperate from concern about the laws themselves.

Are there any rights you wouldn't give away for your own safety?

Yes, plenty.

My house is my private space, I will never consent to cameras being present in it, nor would I consent to the contents of my conversations being stored without any kind of warrant.

If they want to look at where I walk in the street, that's fine by me, they'll see me going to the shops and buying some Irn Bru then coming home, or going out for dinner with some friends. If they want to look at 'oh, he sent a text message to [number] at [time]' then that's fine too, because they're not looking at (nor do they care) what the message was, it's purely about seeing who should be a suspect in various cases.

'Oh, the bomber had texted [number] a hell of a lot over the past few months, we should look into that and see if there's a possible connection to where he got the explosives from.'

The world is changing, and I don't always like how it changes, but sometimes the changes I don't like are for the better.


None

Llama-of-Death

Reply To Post Reply & Quote

Posted at: 10/16/08 10:11 PM

Llama-of-Death EVIL LEVEL 03

Sign-Up: 11/13/00

Posts: 209

At 10/16/08 08:18 PM, liljim wrote:
I can't see how any of that should cause anyone who's behaving as they should any problems.

This is easy to dismiss, but the main concern is monitoring people who, ostensibly haven't done anything. Right now, we who live in the industrialized nations are safer than we have ever been. The media does a good job convincing us otherwise, but by in large, we have a larger chance of bashing our heads on the toilet than being mugged and decapitated. So the question is raised, "Why do we need these things?" The real answer is, of course, money. Relatively cheap to build, maintain, and staff, these things are area monitoring ticket generators.

The Rhys Jones Murder trial began this month, an 11 year old kid who was mistakenly shot two years ago has begun here. And the guy who's just gone chiefly on trial (along with a bunch of other guys belonging to the alleged perpetrator's gang) was ONLY caught as a result of the Police being able to track the shooter's movements through CCTV footage. They'd have caught him even more quickly, had the owner of the bar, outside of which this poor kid was shot, agreed to installing CCTV outside his bar when first asked.

This is precisely my point-you can't legislate away crazy, violent individuals. The gun control laws were on the books, the CCTVs were there, but the kid is still dead (I gather). As far as the CCTV outside of the business, I have no problem with it. Individuals who own businesses or property should have the option to mount cameras to protect their assets. My problem is with government owned and controlled area-monitoring systems. It is strange that you imply it's the pub owner's obligation to do the police's work for them, though. No business should be FORCED to monitor it's customer base.

For instance, if you're caught with Cannabis (even if without intent to supply, based on whatever amount/plastic bags that you might use to distribute that stuff to 'clients') in the US, you're faced with what? That is a question, rather than a statement. I'm guessing it's more than just a slap on the wrist (which is what you'd get here, if you were caught smoking it, or carrying an arbitrary amount around.)

This varies WILDLY throughout the U.S.. Some states have extremely harsh fines for possession, some require jail time for repeat offenders, while others have light fines and will only incarcerate if convicted of traffic, which of course, different states have different tolerances as far as amount possessed and method of packaging. TO further complicate matters, Alaska has it decriminalized, and California's medical marijuana regulations have created a pseudo-legal pot industry.

From personal experience I can tell you that most cops see pot as a fucking joke. Been pulled over once with it in my car, cop took it, never charged me. My friend got caught with two bowls in his car, he threw them into a snowy field (Only to be retrieved hours later). My brother also got pulled over with pot, and the cop had him flush it IN THE JAILHOUSE.

Hopefully this criminalization won't last too much longer, I hate smoking shit weed, and would really dig buying good American grown pot.

Last, the Airline situation isn't really a fair comparison. The airlines aren't owned by the government, and therefore aren't under government control. Basically, by purchasing your ticket, you've agreed to have you, your luggage, and your belongings search, scanned, x-rayed and probed at the Airline's discretion.

Oh, and I wasn't trying to say my country is better than yours, just stating an opinion. Always been fascinated by the fight between safety and freedom.

Also, long time no see, Jim.

"Compared to war, all other forms of human endeavor shrink to insignificance."

BBS Signature

None

Earfetish

Reply To Post Reply & Quote

Posted at: 10/16/08 10:41 PM

Earfetish EVIL LEVEL 42

Sign-Up: 10/21/02

Posts: 27,270

I don't really care if I'm inaccurate about CCTV cameras, I think it's more important to be on the right side of a debate than to be completely correct. Britain is racing into a scary surveillance society that I really don't want anything to do with. The government should be trying to make it so we're more self-sufficient in times of new technology rather than keeping us more oppressed with new technology. We're not far from having barcodes tattooed on to us, and y'know once that happens there's no going back. There's a really worrying imbalance between the government and the populace which is just getting stronger and stronger.

Most of the time CCTV catches offenders that the police shouldn't be wasting their time on. Everyone enjoys sitting outside by the canal on a hot day and supping a beer, and the speed limit should probably be overhauled in many areas. There's some horrible big beady eye staring down at me from the sky all the time and I don't like it, and look at that, now they're trying to get into my computer. Y'know I have got something to hide, like EVERYONE ELSE, there is not ONE PERSON in the world who doesn't have something to hide.

There are no substantial steps between monitoring and arresting people based on email habits or phone calls and arresting people based on throwaway posts on an internet forum.

You should've heard Geoff Hoon making this sound like the worst idea ever on Question Time in his attempts to promote it.

website-last.fm
CLICK MY SIG FOR THE HOTTEST STORIES YOU'LL EVER READ
Livecorpse

BBS Signature

None

Earfetish

Reply To Post Reply & Quote

Posted at: 10/16/08 10:43 PM

Earfetish EVIL LEVEL 42

Sign-Up: 10/21/02

Posts: 27,270

And I'm willing to let a few random people die if it means I'll be free and my kids will be free anyway, to be honest. There are greater things than the life of Rhys Jones.

always good to see liljim post

website-last.fm
CLICK MY SIG FOR THE HOTTEST STORIES YOU'LL EVER READ
Livecorpse

BBS Signature

None

liljim

Reply To Post Reply & Quote

Posted at: 10/16/08 10:55 PM

liljim NEUTRAL LEVEL 27

Sign-Up: 12/16/99

Posts: 8,903

At 10/16/08 10:11 PM, Llama-of-Death wrote:
At 10/16/08 08:18 PM, liljim wrote:
I can't see how any of that should cause anyone who's behaving as they should any problems.
This is easy to dismiss, but the main concern is monitoring people who, ostensibly haven't done anything. Right now, we who live in the industrialized nations are safer than we have ever been. The media does a good job convincing us otherwise, but by in large, we have a larger chance of bashing our heads on the toilet than being mugged and decapitated. So the question is raised, "Why do we need these things?" The real answer is, of course, money. Relatively cheap to build, maintain, and staff, these things are area monitoring ticket generators.

I don't think any of the counrtries in the "industrialized nations" have any money to throw around at the moment, even if they'd like to.

It is strange that you imply it's the pub owner's obligation to do the police's work for them, though. No business should be FORCED to monitor it's customer base.

I haven't done anything of the sort. I noted that the perpetrator would have been CAUGHT sooner than he had, had the owner of the pub installed the CCTV stuff he'd been asked to do. I believe that the council, and not the owner of the establishment, would have paid for that, so it's not as though he'd have had to have paid for it himself. I never implied that it was his OBLIGATION to install that stuff, either.

This varies WILDLY throughout the U.S.. Some states have extremely harsh fines for possession, some require jail time for repeat offenders, while others have light fines and will only incarcerate if convicted of traffic, which of course, different states have different tolerances as far as amount possessed and method of packaging. TO further complicate matters, Alaska has it decriminalized, and California's medical marijuana regulations have created a pseudo-legal pot industry.

Right. It does vary, as I thought. Further, it goes to what I was saying. I havent a clue as to how the US government, or states in that government, deal with issues like that, and neither do you when it comes to issues in this country. So keep your opinions to what you know in your country, rather than try and lend the same rules to another country.

Last, the Airline situation isn't really a fair comparison. The airlines aren't owned by the government, and therefore aren't under government control. Basically, by purchasing your ticket, you've agreed to have you, your luggage, and your belongings search, scanned, x-rayed and probed at the Airline's discretion.

And this is the thing.. Your airline flights might not have been compromised by YOUR government. But they have been over here. And that's what I'm talking about. Deal with your politics in the US, but unless you understand how EVERYTHING works here, don't bother. Otherwise, you just end up looking stupid.

Also, long time no see, Jim.

Indeed, hope you're well. :)

BBS Signature

None

liljim

Reply To Post Reply & Quote

Posted at: 10/16/08 10:58 PM

liljim NEUTRAL LEVEL 27

Sign-Up: 12/16/99

Posts: 8,903

At 10/16/08 10:43 PM, Earfetish wrote: And I'm willing to let a few random people die if it means I'll be free and my kids will be free anyway, to be honest. There are greater things than the life of Rhys Jones.

always good to see liljim post

Part of my post was cut off. So I'll try and continue it now.

You remind me of one of my friends, who was one of the most socialist, militant guys you could meet.

He ended up marrying at the age of 24, has two kids, and works for the NHS just now. People grow up, maybe it's time for you to start?

BBS Signature

Misunderstood

Toasty4you

Reply To Post Reply & Quote

Posted at: 10/16/08 11:00 PM

Toasty4you DARK LEVEL 19

Sign-Up: 07/02/07

Posts: 1,219

At 10/16/08 04:05 PM, DasUberCow wrote: Oh my god its like Half-Life 2 and Mirrors Edge! :O

Aye. I'm sure it will come sooner or later.

No privacy in the UK?

NG's Useless One Liner-er (just kidding Evark, don't ban me :S)

BBS Signature

Winking

putzpie

Reply To Post Reply & Quote

Posted at: 10/16/08 11:05 PM

putzpie NEUTRAL LEVEL 08

Sign-Up: 11/25/07

Posts: 3,146

At 10/16/08 10:43 PM, Earfetish wrote: And I'm willing to let a few random people die if it means I'll be free and my kids will be free anyway, to be honest. There are greater things than the life of Rhys Jones.

always good to see liljim post

I agree 100%. He was probably a wino anyway >:(.

My site
Click here to proceed to decapitate small children with wii remotes
If you didn't start out on the PSX, you're not a gamer >:(

BBS Signature

None

Earfetish

Reply To Post Reply & Quote

Posted at: 10/16/08 11:11 PM

Earfetish EVIL LEVEL 42

Sign-Up: 10/21/02

Posts: 27,270

At 10/16/08 10:58 PM, liljim wrote: You remind me of one of my friends, who was one of the most socialist, militant guys you could meet.

He ended up marrying at the age of 24, has two kids, and works for the NHS just now. People grow up, maybe it's time for you to start?

I'm still a student, maybe a little early to grow up, may as well revel in youth. And I'm not socialist, I'm totally capitalist - used to be socialist, maybe I have grown up a little. The government seem to fuck everything up and I can't trust them, which ruined socialism; I could trust the police if they weren't so politicised but Ian Blair kinda ruined that too.

Of course I plan to marry and have kids and get a job, I've no problem with any of that.

but surely you must agree that we're having a lot of freedoms taken away from us, like everyone in the UK seems to agree with that, and we're getting more Orwellian. I just tend to argue polemically. If Rhys Jones would've been saved by ID cards, they'd still be a terrible idea.

website-last.fm
CLICK MY SIG FOR THE HOTTEST STORIES YOU'LL EVER READ
Livecorpse

BBS Signature

None

Earfetish

Reply To Post Reply & Quote

Posted at: 10/16/08 11:18 PM

Earfetish EVIL LEVEL 42

Sign-Up: 10/21/02

Posts: 27,270

At 10/16/08 08:18 PM, liljim wrote: Bottom line I'm trying to make when trying to make a judgement on different countries from yours, is respect the country you're trying to evaluate. Don't compare it with your own country, since that just won't work.

I also think that if Americans can have a society with freedom instilled into it, and a society that thinks CCTV cameras are unnecessary - in fact, if basically the rest of the world thinks CCTV cameras are far more unnecessary than the UK does - then perhaps they're on to something. If there's something underlying our society that makes CCTV a vital tool in policing, but the rest of the world doesn't need it, then maybe there's underlying issues we should address. There's no good reason why we need far more CCTV cameras than everywhere else and if there is, maybe CCTV cameras aren't the best answer for it.

Like that argument 'you live in a different country' would work if I was arguing for chopping off gay people's heads and I lived in Iran. There's something to learn from the rest of the world and there's no harm in modelling our countries off them.

website-last.fm
CLICK MY SIG FOR THE HOTTEST STORIES YOU'LL EVER READ
Livecorpse

BBS Signature

None

liljim

Reply To Post Reply & Quote

Posted at: 10/16/08 11:19 PM

liljim NEUTRAL LEVEL 27

Sign-Up: 12/16/99

Posts: 8,903

No, I don't think we're having any freedoms taken away, etc. 'Cause I haven't noticed anything I've NOT been able to do that I've been used to doing since I was born.

BBS Signature

None

Earfetish

Reply To Post Reply & Quote

Posted at: 10/16/08 11:31 PM

Earfetish EVIL LEVEL 42

Sign-Up: 10/21/02

Posts: 27,270

At 10/16/08 11:19 PM, liljim wrote: No, I don't think we're having any freedoms taken away, etc. 'Cause I haven't noticed anything I've NOT been able to do that I've been used to doing since I was born.

Drink in public, wank off to 'extreme pornography', write nasty stories, 'stir up' religious hatred, say pro-9/11 things if you're a prominent Muslim, play Carmageddon without zombies (I know you couldn't do that before you were born because it wasn't out then), and of course not have to wait 28 days before you get charged. And have your assets frozen when you're found innocent. Off the top of my head.

The 'extreme pornography' one is a pretty bad one really too.

website-last.fm
CLICK MY SIG FOR THE HOTTEST STORIES YOU'LL EVER READ
Livecorpse

BBS Signature

None

liljim

Reply To Post Reply & Quote

Posted at: 10/16/08 11:35 PM

liljim NEUTRAL LEVEL 27

Sign-Up: 12/16/99

Posts: 8,903

At 10/16/08 11:31 PM, Earfetish wrote:
At 10/16/08 11:19 PM, liljim wrote: No, I don't think we're having any freedoms taken away, etc. 'Cause I haven't noticed anything I've NOT been able to do that I've been used to doing since I was born.
Drink in public, wank off to 'extreme pornography', write nasty stories, 'stir up' religious hatred, say pro-9/11 things if you're a prominent Muslim, play Carmageddon without zombies (I know you couldn't do that before you were born because it wasn't out then), and of course not have to wait 28 days before you get charged. And have your assets frozen when you're found innocent. Off the top of my head.

The 'extreme pornography' one is a pretty bad one really too.

Aside from drinking in public, which I've done many times before and have not been reprimanded for it on any occasion.... Refer to my previous comment.

BBS Signature

None

KillerClam

Reply To Post Reply & Quote

Posted at: 10/16/08 11:42 PM

KillerClam LIGHT LEVEL 09

Sign-Up: 04/30/07

Posts: 2,250

and they said america was like oceania


None

Llama-of-Death

Reply To Post Reply & Quote

Posted at: 10/16/08 11:43 PM

Llama-of-Death EVIL LEVEL 03

Sign-Up: 11/13/00

Posts: 209

Aside from drinking in public, which I've done many times before and have not been reprimanded for it on any occasion.... Refer to my previous comment.

Freedom is about protecting everyone's rights, not just the ones you have personally used. If you don't fight for the ones that are unpopular, pretty soon they WILL come after the rights you do enjoy. Oppression is not flipping a light switch, it takes years of conditioning and manipulation of public perception.

"Compared to war, all other forms of human endeavor shrink to insignificance."

BBS Signature

None

liljim

Reply To Post Reply & Quote

Posted at: 10/16/08 11:45 PM

liljim NEUTRAL LEVEL 27

Sign-Up: 12/16/99

Posts: 8,903

At 10/16/08 11:42 PM, KillerClam wrote: and they said america was like oceania

they said it was like what?

BBS Signature

None

Kuro

Reply To Post Reply & Quote

Posted at: 10/16/08 11:46 PM

Kuro DARK LEVEL 22

Sign-Up: 02/06/05

Posts: 14,442

At 10/16/08 04:47 PM, Electric-Bla wrote: It's still a rather nasty trend going on. I really can't imagine what privacy rights will be like in thirty or forty years.

Hah.

Man.

I wonder what they were thinking when they made THAT one.

Kuro - Puting the 'Kur' back in 'inkurable disease.'

BBS Signature

None

liljim

Reply To Post Reply & Quote

Posted at: 10/16/08 11:48 PM

liljim NEUTRAL LEVEL 27

Sign-Up: 12/16/99

Posts: 8,903

At 10/16/08 11:43 PM, Llama-of-Death wrote: Freedom is about protecting everyone's rights, not just the ones you have personally used. If you don't fight for the ones that are unpopular, pretty soon they WILL come after the rights you do enjoy. Oppression is not flipping a light switch, it takes years of conditioning and manipulation of public perception.

Whatever you say. I'm willing to bet that you've never travelled outside of the US.

BBS Signature

None

Llama-of-Death

Reply To Post Reply & Quote

Posted at: 10/16/08 11:51 PM

Llama-of-Death EVIL LEVEL 03

Sign-Up: 11/13/00

Posts: 209

You could at least try not to be so patronizing and condescending.

"Compared to war, all other forms of human endeavor shrink to insignificance."

BBS Signature

None

liljim

Reply To Post Reply & Quote

Posted at: 10/16/08 11:58 PM

liljim NEUTRAL LEVEL 27

Sign-Up: 12/16/99

Posts: 8,903

At 10/16/08 11:51 PM, Llama-of-Death wrote: You could at least try not to be so patronizing and condescending.

I'm not being either. I'm trying to make a point, which is - whatever rules and what not you abide by in the US, fine. But don't try and apply them to the UK, because that just don't work. Or at least it shouldn't, given that they're two entirely different places.

BBS Signature

All times are Eastern Standard Time (GMT -5) | Current Time: 06:45 AM

<< Back

This topic is 3 pages long. [ 1 | 2 | 3 ]

<< < > >>
You need a Grounds Gold Account to post on the NG BBS! If you don't have one, click here to sign up now! It's fast, free, and easy — and opens up tons of great NG features!