Term "Israeli Aparthtide" racist?

[JoS]

If you go to university I am sure you have heard of some group advertising meetings for a group about the "Israeli Apartheid" . hell I am sure most of us have heard this term before. However, am I the only one who finds this to be racist and bigoted?

[Al6200]

At 10/14/08 04:51 PM, JoS wrote: If you go to university I am sure you have heard of some group advertising meetings for a group about the "Israeli Apartheid" . hell I am sure most of us have heard this term before. However, am I the only one who finds this to be racist and bigoted?

I think it's a little bit extreme to compare apartheid to the Israeli occupation of Palestine, but there are similarities between them.

[Sajberhippien]

At 10/14/08 04:51 PM, JoS wrote: If you go to university I am sure you have heard of some group advertising meetings for a group about the "Israeli Apartheid" . hell I am sure most of us have heard this term before. However, am I the only one who finds this to be racist and bigoted?

No, it isn't racist. Do you even know what racism is? It's not about disliking the actions of a country, or working against those actions, at least. It doesn't even mention jewish as a people, but specifically state that it is the country, ISRAEL, whose actions they oppose.

[JoS]

When people talk about Israel they are only talking about the Israeli Jews, they are not condemning the Israeli Arabs. Likewise they exonerate Palestinian acts of terrorism. Really they are saying the Jewish Israelis do not need/deserve to have their own country.

Using the term Apartheid sensationalizes what is going on and over-simplifies it, much like the term Abortion Holocaust. People are often denounced for comparing abortion to the holocaust, but the liberal education institutions and media hail people who compare Israel to South Africa are hailed as heros.

[Tancrisism]

At 10/15/08 04:39 PM, JoS wrote: When people talk about Israel they are only talking about the Israeli Jews, they are not condemning the Israeli Arabs. Likewise they exonerate Palestinian acts of terrorism. Really they are saying the Jewish Israelis do not need/deserve to have their own country.

This is a vast over generalization. People, like myself, can disagree with the current state of affairs in Israel without condemning Jews or saying that Jews should have their own state. My great-grandmother was a Polish Jew, so I am far from anti-Semetic. But regardless, I think that the current state is quite fucked. Of course, the Palestinian extremists are not making their situation any better.

Using the term Apartheid sensationalizes what is going on and over-simplifies it, much like the term Abortion Holocaust. People are often denounced for comparing abortion to the holocaust, but the liberal education institutions and media hail people who compare Israel to South Africa are hailed as heros.

Show me someone who hails people using this term as "heroes". You, judging by this post which of course cannot say your entire opinion of the Israeli conflict if you know much about it, don't seem to be aware of both sides of the situation. The Palestinian civilians, the people who have been there for 700 years, are being quite abused and have been quite abused since the British Mandate in the 30's. Of course the extremism, like I said, is not helping sympathy, but their problem goes far beyond that.

[JoS]

Example from my former Universities newspaper.

Its okay to disagree with the policies of Israel, but its another thing to call it Apartheid. Most people find it unacceptable to compare abortion to the Holocaust, but its okay to compare Israel to South Africa?

[Tancrisism]

At 10/15/08 05:21 PM, JoS wrote: Example from my former Universities newspaper.

Its okay to disagree with the policies of Israel, but its another thing to call it Apartheid. Most people find it unacceptable to compare abortion to the Holocaust, but its okay to compare Israel to South Africa?

I'm not entirely sure if it is or isn't. I know that all Israelis have mandatory military service, and in this they are brainwashed that Arabs are intending to kill every single Jew and so on (I had discussions with a few Israelis over the summer); not to mention there is almost always something for the Israeli army to do, and they do witness horrible acts by extremists in their hometowns. So I'm not sure how much worse or better this is than apartheid. Because what can the Palestinians do now? They are stuck between a rock (Israel) and a hard place (extremists).

[JoS]

Arabs can vote just as freely as Jews and Christians whoa re Israeli citizens. Their are Arabs who sit in Parliament, their are Arab political parties. One of the Supreme Court judges is Arab. So to say there is Apartheid is not true. Arab Israelis have full participation in all aspects of Israel. South Africa, blacks did not get to partake in regular society, which is nto the case with Israel and Arabs. Yes Palestinians do nto get teh same rigths ISraeli citizens get, but that is because they are not ISraeli citizens.

[Tancrisism]

At 10/15/08 05:57 PM, JoS wrote: Various things

Touché sir, touché.

I agree with you then that apartheid is not the correct term.

[zoolrule]

Because those Arabs are the scum of earth willing to sacrifice their own people in order to gain propaganda, whiling to endanger their own people in order to fight Israel.

Have not ethics and moral laws and have no problem in lying and twisting the truth in order to gain propaganda.

There is nothing wrong with the Israelis. No other country would act as good as Israel if was in the same situation. You'll get it when you fight with Arabs, you'll get it when in 50 years Muslims will already be majority in Europe.

Too bad this is world of hypocrites.

[jonnyrules935]

Maybe the term 'apartheid' is a little over used in this situation,

It doesn't make it racist at all

saying that Castro is a dictator doesn't make me a sadistic anti-cuban extremist.

If there's one thing I don't like about Isreal, its that if you don't say their right, then its because your some sort of neonazi or something.

Maybe they should stop invading countries because some 12 year old kid threw a rock in their window,
if they started acting like reasonable people, maybe they shouldn't have to build a wall.

[JoS]

At 10/17/08 05:16 PM, jonnyrules935 wrote: Maybe the term 'apartheid' is a little over used in this situation,

It doesn't make it racist at all

saying that Castro is a dictator doesn't make me a sadistic anti-cuban extremist.

There is a difference, Castro is actually a dictator. Israel is not actually Apartheid.

If there's one thing I don't like about Isreal, its that if you don't say their right, then its because your some sort of neonazi or something.

No, but using trumped up language to demonize them is racist. I dont agree with everything Israel does.

Maybe they should stop invading countries because some 12 year old kid threw a rock in their window,
if they started acting like reasonable people, maybe they shouldn't have to build a wall.

If by rock you mean rocket or suicide bombings. Lets not forget, the Arab countries invaded Israel...and lost.

[XaosLegend]

I think aparthied is a pretty fitting comparison to what's going on there, apologists for Isreals policies will always invoke the image of the most bigoted individuals to win their assertion (I would say arguement but they usually don't ahve one) of course the actual stereotypical bigot shows up every once and awhile too, and theyre also morons.

If Isreal doesn't want it's policies compared to aparthied then stop doing things that are like the horrfic things done in aparthied!

Israeli apologists (and Isreal itself) is like a kid who got beat up at school, and come back to school with a handgun and shoot the guy in the leg then say, "Hey I'm the victim here!"

When every defense of your position is that everyone who disagrees with you is a bigot, and youre not even trying to argue the issues in any detail whatsoever, you're really not saying anything other than "The whole world is against us waah!" grow up, youre religion is respected and honored worldwide, you have a theocratic country under your religion, youre doing just fine, if you keep crying wolf about bigotry no ones going to respect anything you have to say anymore.

[zoolrule]

At 10/19/08 03:16 PM, XaosLegend wrote: I think aparthied is a pretty fitting comparison to what's going on there, apologists for Isreals policies will always invoke the image of the most bigoted individuals to win their assertion (I would say arguement but they usually don't ahve one) of course the actual stereotypical bigot shows up every once and awhile too, and theyre also morons.

If Isreal doesn't want it's policies compared to aparthied then stop doing things that are like the horrfic things done in aparthied!

Israeli apologists (and Isreal itself) is like a kid who got beat up at school, and come back to school with a handgun and shoot the guy in the leg then say, "Hey I'm the victim here!"

When every defense of your position is that everyone who disagrees with you is a bigot, and youre not even trying to argue the issues in any detail whatsoever, you're really not saying anything other than "The whole world is against us waah!" grow up, youre religion is respected and honored worldwide, you have a theocratic country under your religion, youre doing just fine, if you keep crying wolf about bigotry no ones going to respect anything you have to say anymore.

Give me one thing wrong that Israel did, ONE THING WRONG.
Don't you get it? You are all brainwashed by the massive propaganda campaign done by the Arabs. You know how many innocent deaths since 1948 there are 4,500 deaths, considering that fact that the morally inferior Arabs use guerilla warfare, the numbers are amazingly low.

Just to show your hypocrisy - in Sudan there's a genocide right now, over 1,000,000 deaths. Does anyone talk about it? No, because you are hypocrites.

Iraq? How many deaths? like 500k, right?

What do you expect Israel to do when terrorists are shooting Qassam rockets for school and hospitals? Should they care about the lying Palestinians lifes more than their own?

[springheeledjack]

First off, it cannot be "racist", not to be a smart ass, but jewish isnt a race, its a religion, everyone knows that. Second, after World War 2 I'm sure the jews developed a hostility to anyone who wants to destroy their belief as a whole. Third, if the palestinians invaded Israel, and Isreal counterattacked and invaded them back, its only reasonable, its for their own safety. Its the same situation as the Russia/Georgia conflict. Those Georgian territories broke away to Russia(if I remember this correctly) and the Georgians sent troops to take them back. Those territories were at that point a part of Russia, and therefore the Georgians were invading Russian territory. So Russia attacked them back. Same thing in World War 1, Central Powers invade France, the Allies then drive them back and occupy their country. That is war people. Thats just how it is. As for the jews treating palestinians badly, theyre sort of viewed as foreign nationals. America doesnt treat Iraqis too nice either, because we're at war with them. Again, thats just the way it is.

[Saruman200]

At 10/14/08 04:51 PM, JoS wrote: If you go to university I am sure you have heard of some group advertising meetings for a group about the "Israeli Apartheid" .

I would never use term, it's extremely stupid, but still, not racist.

hell I am sure most of us have heard this term before. However, am I the only one who finds this to be racist and bigoted?

Well, first off, Jewish and Isreali arn't races, there a religion and a nationality respectively. Second, while the term "Israeli Apartheid" is stupid and anyone who says it is obviouly ignoring the facts, that doesn't make them racist. Critizing a country's policy is not racist. And even if they're only critizing the Israeli Jews, I still don't think it makes them a anti-Semite. I can critize America for not having gay marriage, and it doesn't make me racist against Americans. And really, I'm only critizing American Christians, but I'm still not anti-American or anti-Christian. Critizing a certain aspect of something does not mean you hate that something. Third, while there is no such thing as an "Israeli Apartheid", that doesn't mean Israel is completely immune form criticism. It does have some pretty fucked up policies towards Arabs, but nothing on the level of the apartheid. Regardless, critizing Israel is hardly racism.

[XaosLegend]

Give me one thing wrong that Israel did, ONE THING WRONG.
Don't you get it? You are all brainwashed by the massive propaganda campaign done by the Arabs. You know how many innocent deaths since 1948 there are 4,500 deaths, considering that fact that the morally inferior Arabs use guerilla warfare, the numbers are amazingly low.

Just to show your hypocrisy - in Sudan there's a genocide right now, over 1,000,000 deaths. Does anyone talk about it? No, because you are hypocrites.

Iraq? How many deaths? like 500k, right?

What do you expect Israel to do when terrorists are shooting Qassam rockets for school and hospitals? Should they care about the lying Palestinians lifes more than their own?

"while the military occupation in Gaza was ended, the Israeli government still retains control of Gaza's airspace, territorial water, and borders, legally making it still under Israeli control."

Hmm if another country occupied my country I'd be pretty angry too, also Isrealis have died to palestinians in the conflict and been injured at a rate of 1:5 showing the success of force being used in the region, and the lack of comparable damage having been done to the Isrealis to support your absolute zealotry and one sided perspective of the conflict.

more than 18,000 palestinian homes have been demolished by Isreal

Isreal holds more than 10000 palestinians as prisoners and palestine has 1 Isreali

Isreal has been targetted by 65 UN resolutions palestine 0. (must be because the world just hates jews right?)

there I gave you four things (but they don't count right? Because theyre all justified right? and nothing Palestinians do is justified right?)

Geurilla warfare is resorted to by groups that are highly outclassed by a superior force, it does not make them any more morally bankrupt than the side using conventional weapons, what makes something morally justified is that you do everything you can not to kill civilians and seek diplomatic resolutions, and honor the national sovereignty of one another. Neither side is doing this.

[XaosLegend]

Just to show your hypocrisy - in Sudan there's a genocide right now, over 1,000,000 deaths. Does anyone talk about it? No, because you are hypocrites.

Me personally not talking about the deaths in the sudan makes me a hypocrite? I was responding to this thread fishing for validation of your position not to a thread about the sudan. Clearly an issue like a genocide of a million people is a bigger immediate issue, and you're right about one thing it's sick that it's not being talked about more, and stopped immediately

Iraq? How many deaths? like 500k, right?

I believe it's over a million in war related deaths now (10-1 or more civilians) and it is absolutely the thing that angers me most about US policy, here we haven't just decided not to stop an evil conflict, we've created it ourselves. My tax money goes to it, people I know go to fight for it, it's disgusting and should be the shame of all americans that don't do something to stop it.

What do you expect Israel to do when terrorists are shooting Qassam rockets for school and hospitals? Should they care about the lying Palestinians lifes more than their own?

So theyre morally inferior and liars by nature, for someone implying that they have a concern about racism and bigotry you show strong signs of veiwing the world through awfully supremicist glasses.

[JoS]

At 10/19/08 07:16 PM, XaosLegend wrote: "while the military occupation in Gaza was ended, the Israeli government still retains control of Gaza's airspace, territorial water, and borders, legally making it still under Israeli control."

Curious if by controls their borders if you are simply referring to the majority of the Palestinian border that is with Israel? Or do they also control the portion of the border with Egypt? My understanding is it is Egpyt who tries to block them from entering Egypt, not Israel.

Hmm if another country occupied my country I'd be pretty angry too, also Isrealis have died to palestinians in the conflict and been injured at a rate of 1:5 showing the success of force being used in the region, and the lack of comparable damage having been done to the Isrealis to support your absolute zealotry and one sided perspective of the conflict.

Actually for 2000-2006 the death ratio was 1:2.7 (4209 Palestinians and 1556 Israelis)

more than 18,000 palestinian homes have been demolished by Isreal

Maybe you should mention that that total is from 1967 to today and includes of homes built without any permits.

Isreal holds more than 10000 palestinians as prisoners and palestine has 1 Isreali

Of those 10000 prisoners, 1500 are classified as having blood on their hands, meaning they have been convicted or are currently on trial for carrying out terrorist activities. Another 5000 are either currently on trial or serving sentences imposed by judges in a court of law. Another large portion (an additional 5000 ish) are jailed for being members of outlawed militant groups. Only a mere 530 are on what are known as administrative detentions, where theya re held without charge or trial. Everyone else has had a trial or is on trial and knows of the reasons for their detention.

Isreal has been targetted by 65 UN resolutions palestine 0. (must be because the world just hates jews right?)

2 are for a parade, some are for deportations, and many have nothing to do with Palestine. How can you issue a resolution in the UN against a body that is not a state? Palestine is not a member of the United Nations, they have observer status.

Geurilla warfare is resorted to by groups that are highly outclassed by a superior force, it does not make them any more morally bankrupt than the side using conventional weapons,

Bombing a bus or cafe, intentionally targeting civilians like the Palestinian militants do is terrorism, not guerrilla warfare. And I think you mean conventional tactics, not conventional weapons, unless you are referring to suicide bombers.

I am assuming you took your points straight off If Americans Knew, since all your points are their first few things on their website.

Here is a bit about some of the board members of the organization.

Francis Boyle, professor of intenrational law at university of Illinois - former legal advisor to the Palestinian Liberation Organization, offered services to Iran to sue the United States to prevent it from attacking Irans nuclear facilities and prevent any further UN Sanctions, offered to represent Iran in a tribunal to try Israel for genocide, has compared Israel to Nazi Germany, campaigned for Bush to be impeeched and for Clintons impeechment, and speeks highly of Libyan leader Muammar al-Gaddafi whom he has meet on on several occasions.

Peter McCloskey is a former US Representative from California. He gave a key note address to the Institute of Historical Refrom, a Holocaust denial group.

[zoolrule]

At 10/19/08 07:25 PM, XaosLegend wrote: Me personally not talking about the deaths in the sudan makes me a hypocrite? I was responding to this thread fishing for validation of your position not to a thread about the sudan. Clearly an issue like a genocide of a million people is a bigger immediate issue, and you're right about one thing it's sick that it's not being talked about more, and stopped immediately

That the world is calling to boycott Israel, while Israel is amazingly humane, and not giving a shit about a genocide that is currently going (By Arabs BTW) that's hypocrisy. Not you personally .

So theyre morally inferior and liars by nature, for someone implying that they have a concern about racism and bigotry you show strong signs of veiwing the world through awfully supremicist glasses.

not by nature, by culture. nothing with genetics.

[XaosLegend]

That the world is calling to boycott Israel, while Israel is amazingly humane, and not giving a shit about a genocide that is currently going (By Arabs BTW) that's hypocrisy. Not you personally .

So theyre morally inferior and liars by nature, for someone implying that they have a concern about racism and bigotry you show strong signs of veiwing the world through awfully supremicist glasses.

not by nature, by culture. nothing with genetics.

Yes amazingly...

Being a bigot doesn't require that you descriminate against a race, I'm an atheist and the people that probably hate me the most are my faithful brethren from mother europe, because I'm "morally" and culturally inferior even though I fight harder for life, liberty and decency than all but a small proportion of their congregations.

[RedSkunk]

At 10/14/08 04:51 PM, JoS wrote: If you go to university I am sure you have heard of some group advertising meetings for a group about the "Israeli Apartheid" . hell I am sure most of us have heard this term before. However, am I the only one who finds this to be racist and bigoted?

No, the comparison is neither racist nor bigoted. It's completely apt.

First, apartheid is generally defined as a system of segregation or discrimination on the grounds of race.

Pointing out that Arab-Israelis are allowed to vote does not prove your point Rugby. The apartheid comparison is directed towards Israel's treatment of Palestinians in the Occupied Territories. They don't get to vote in Israeli elections - only shams of elections via the Palestinian Authority, an administration organization, not a government. Saying that Palestinian disenfranchisement is OK because they are not citizens is circular logic. In apartheid S. Africa, black disenfranchisement was OK because they were not considered 1st class citizens. Israel is still in de facto control of both the West Bank and the Gaza Strip. Palestine is not an organized state, and Israel actively works to prevent a functioning state from emerging.

Egypt blocking refugees from entering their borders has nothing to do on this topic.

The fact that many home demolitions are justified on the basis of "permits" does not condone these demolitions. Israel has in the past used three main justifications for demolitions - as retribution for "terrorism," national security reasons, and the houses were built without permits.

During the Second Intifada (2000-current), Israel has demolished 5000 homes, nearly 2000 excused because of permits, more than 600 as retribution. Israel has stopped the retribution justification, but still demolishes based on the second two. Israel makes obtaining building permits by Palestinians in the Occupied Territories virtually impossible. In addition to housing, Israel has also targeted Palestinian Authority ministry offices, infrastructure, and cultivatable land.

Israel controls all borders and access points (ports, airports), collects taxes and duties for the Palestinian Authority (and withholds said taxes on political grounds), continues to build a segregated highway system running throughout the Occupied Territories, constructs illegal walls, settlements, and checkpoints preventing Palestinians from moving freely throughout the Occupied Territories. All of Israel's actions have reinforced and exacerbated conditions in the Occupied Territories, where 2/3s of Palestinians are impoverished and unemployment sits around the 50% mark. Since the '06 elections, Israel has withheld the taxes and duties owed to the PA, which now runs almost entirely on foreign aid. This money goes toward basic infrastructure like schools, police and fire stations.

Pointing out these facts does not make me an anti-semite. Calling Israel's actions in the Occupied Territories "apartheid" does not make me racist. Condemning the actions of the government of Israel has nothing to do with Judaism.

"How I experienced a deja vu when I saw a security check point which Palestinians had to negotiate most of their lives that I was reminded so painfully of the same checkpoints in apartheid South Africa, when arrogant white policemen treated almost all blacks like dirt, or, when someone pointed to a house in Jerusalem and said that used to be our home, but now it has been taken over by the Israelis, which made me recall so painfully similar statements in Cape Town by coloureds who had been thrown out of their homes and relocated in ghetto townships some distance from town."
-- Desmond Tutu

[zoolrule]

At 10/20/08 05:01 PM, RedSkunk wrote:

At 10/14/08 04:51 PM, JoS wrote: If you go to university I am sure you have heard of some group advertising meetings for a group about the "Israeli Apartheid" . hell I am sure most of us have heard this term before. However, am I the only one who finds this to be racist and bigoted?

No, the comparison is neither racist nor bigoted. It's completely apt.

First, apartheid is generally defined as a system of segregation or discrimination on the grounds of race.

OK, here you point out that apartheid is discrimination of a race. later on you admit that Arab Israelis are not being discriminated (At least officially, because some people claim otherwise, even though Arab Israelis are enjoying the highest living standards in the middle east, and in the top of the world- Israeli is ranked 22, while Arabs countries are around 60-70), and next thing you do is claiming it is apartheid? I don't quite get it, how could it be? Because Israeli-Arabs are simply Palestinians that agreed to be under Israeli control after the Arabs lost the war they started in 1948, their goal was to destroy Israel.
OH MY GOD, EVIL ISRAEL, HOW COULD THEY LET THEIR OWN ENEMY THAT WANTED TO DESTROY THEM, JOIN THEIR OWN COUNTRY.

Pointing out that Arab-Israelis are allowed to vote does not prove your point Rugby. The apartheid comparison is directed towards Israel's treatment of Palestinians in the Occupied Territories. They don't get to vote in Israeli elections - only shams of elections via the Palestinian Authority, an administration organization, not a government. Saying that Palestinian disenfranchisement is OK because they are not citizens is circular logic. In apartheid S. Africa, black disenfranchisement was OK because they were not considered 1st class citizens. Israel is still in de facto control of both the West Bank and the Gaza Strip. Palestine is not an organized state, and Israel actively works to prevent a functioning state from emerging.

Do you let Russians vote in the American elections? Do you let Germans vote? Do you let Australians vote in your elections? Why not? THAT"S AN APARTHEID YOU RACIST FUCK!
Ironic as it could be, Israelis are actively working to create a state, while Palestinians (and Arabs in general) are doing whatever they can to stop it, not the citizens themselves, but the governments and "administration organizations".

Egypt blocking refugees from entering their borders has nothing to do on this topic.

Of course it does, the other guy said "while the military occupation in Gaza was ended, the Israeli government still retains control of Gaza's airspace, territorial water, and borders, legally making it still under Israeli control.", so he pointed out that Egypt has borders with Gaza too.
Which makes them under Egyptian control? OMG RACIST EGYPTIANS, THAT'S AN APARTHEID, LET PALESTINIANS VOTE. Oh wait, i forgot, they can't vote, all of the Arab states are dictatorial, Israel is the only democratic state in the Middle-East.

The fact that many home demolitions are justified on the basis of "permits" does not condone these demolitions. Israel has in the past used three main justifications for demolitions - as retribution for "terrorism," national security reasons, and the houses were built without permits.

It does.

During the Second Intifada (2000-current), Israel has demolished 5000 homes, nearly 2000 excused because of permits, more than 600 as retribution. Israel has stopped the retribution justification, but still demolishes based on the second two. Israel makes obtaining building permits by Palestinians in the Occupied Territories virtually impossible. In addition to housing, Israel has also targeted Palestinian Authority ministry offices, infrastructure, and cultivatable land.

Source, proof?
I really doubt they don't let them build. And i even if they do, what's their interest in doing so?

Israel controls all borders and access points (ports, airports), collects taxes and duties for the Palestinian Authority (and withholds said taxes on political grounds), continues to build a segregated highway system running throughout the Occupied Territories, constructs illegal walls, settlements, and checkpoints preventing Palestinians from moving freely throughout the Occupied Territories. All of Israel's actions have reinforced and exacerbated conditions in the Occupied Territories, where 2/3s of Palestinians are impoverished and unemployment sits around the 50% mark. Since the '06 elections, Israel has withheld the taxes and duties owed to the PA, which now runs almost entirely on foreign aid. This money goes toward basic infrastructure like schools, police and fire stations.

Oh wow, are we playing the "point out bad things the nation of done"? Can i join too? Because trust me, just like you can point out bad things Israel have done, i can count X1000 more things the Arabs have done, they are far more vicious, evil, cruel and are based on nothing except pure hate.
I can also point out the reasons for the Israeli actions, i can't also justify them. You see? Pointing out bad things doesn't make you right, because not only the USA have done far worse thing, every single country in the world did, including the hypocrite British, French (Far worse too). Even the Swiss. If i'll point those bad acts, what would it make them be?

50% Unemployment rates? What are we making up facts now? The unemployment rate in the Palestinian Authority is standing on 19%. What facts that i don't know about could you lie on now? I CAN'T TRUST YOU ANYMORE, I'M BREAKING UP WITH YOU.

Pointing out these facts does not make me an anti-semite. Calling Israel's actions in the Occupied Territories "apartheid" does not make me racist. Condemning the actions of the government of Israel has nothing to do with Judaism.

Right, it makes you emm.
Hypocrite.
Ignorant.
Liar (See above)
And it does make you a bit of anti-semite, i think, what could other could be the source of your (and other's) unjustified hate and inflated condemn of Israel?
Sorry if i have some miss spells / a little bit of illegible sentences, i just had to do this really quick.

"How I experienced a deja vu when I saw a security check point which Palestinians had to negotiate most of their lives that I was reminded so painfully of the same checkpoints in apartheid South Africa, when arrogant white policemen treated almost all blacks like dirt, or, when someone pointed to a house in Jerusalem and said that used to be our home, but now it has been taken over by the Israelis, which made me recall so painfully similar statements in Cape Town by coloureds who had been thrown out of their homes and relocated in ghetto townships some distance from town."
-- Desmond Tutu

Kill all Jews
-- Average Arab in 1870's-1940's's.

Kill all Israelis
--Average Arab in 1948's-now.

I will kill every single Israeli and drive them of with my holy spirit and jihad, and if not me, my children will. ALLAH ACHBAR.
-- Average Palestinian

BOOM.
-- His children.

[zoolrule]

Oh and another thing

"Israel will never get true security and safety through oppressing another people. A true peace can ultimately be built only on justice. We condemn the violence of suicide bombers, and we condemn the corruption of young minds taught hatred, but we also condemn the violence of military incursions in the occupied lands, and the inhumanity that won't let ambulances reach the injured.

-- Desmund Toto

It's funny how he talked to words about the suicide bombing, the fact that every single Palestinian have been brainwashed to actually be willing to kill himself because of the hate inserted to him against Israel, totally ignored the massive global propaganda and inciting campaign done by the Palestinians the last decade, and absolutely 100% concealed that Palestinians are shooting rockets at Israeli cities D-A-I-L-Y from hospitals, schools, transporting weapons and terrorists through ambulances, using children and women as bomb transformers (Also, they later whine to the that the evil Israelis are bombing all of the mentioned above - evil unethical propaganda). That the Hamas goal is openly - to destroy Israel.
Like it doesn't really matter, like it's not the FUCKING REASON ISRAEL ARE DOING WHAT IT'S DOING. Just proves even he is just another bleeding heart hypocrite.

Why wont you read this, see which is more powerful :
"I respect Israel and admire it as a country. I'm opposed to a policy of killing civilians, or using them as a means to an end, and I understand that Israel has a right to defend itself. The Palestinians, if they don't have an enemy to fight, will fight each other. In about 20 years from now you'll remember what I'm telling you, the conflict will be among various groups within Hamas. They're already beginning to quarrel over control of the money."

*He does not conceal his abhorrence of everything representing the human surroundings in which he grew up: the nation, the religion, the organization.

"You Jews should be aware: You will never, but never have peace with Hamas. Islam, as the ideology that guides them, will not allow them to achieve a peace agreement with the Jews. They believe that tradition says that the Prophet Mohammed fought against the Jews and that therefore they must continue to fight them to the death. They have to take revenge against anyone who did not agree to accept the Prophet Mohammed, like the Jews who are seen in the Koran as monkeys and the sons of pigs. They speak in terms of historical rights that were taken from them. In the view of Hamas, peace with Israel contradicts sharia and the Koran, and the Jews have no right to remain in Palestine."

*Is that the justification for the suicide attacks?

"More than that. An entire society sanctifies death and the suicide terrorists. In Palestinian culture a suicide terrorist becomes a hero, a martyr. Sheikhs tell their students about the 'heroism of the shaheeds' and that causes the young people to imitate the suicide bombers, in order to achieve glory. I'll give you an example. I once met a young man named Dia Tawil. He was a quiet boy, an outstanding student. Not a Muslim extremist and not radical in his ideas against the Israelis. I never heard extreme statements from him. He didn't even come from a religious family: His father was a communist and his sister was a journalist who didn't wear a head covering. But Bilal Barghouti [one of the heads of the military arm of Hamas in the West Bank] didn't need more than a few months to convince him to become a suicide terrorist." (Tawil, 19, blew himself up in March 2001 next to a bus at the French Hill junction in Jerusalem, Israel; 31 people were wounded.)

"Do you know that Hamas was the first to use the weapon of suicide bombers against civilian targets?" he continues. "They are blind and ignorant. It's true, there are good and bad people everywhere, but Hamas supporters don't understand that they are led by a wicked and cruel group that brainwashes the children and gets them to believe that if they carry out a suicide attack they'll get to Paradise. But no suicide bomber will find himself there and no virgins are waiting for them after they have carried out an attack. They have to understand that Islam was created by people and not by God."

*Were there good people in Hamas?

"In my eyes there were all cruel, ugly inside. But I think that Mahmoud Zahar [one of the leaders of Hamas in Gaza] is one of the worst."

-- Masab Yousef, the son of the the Hamas leader, he was brave enough (And was un-brainwashed got good education enough, because of his father's position) to leave Hamas and talk against the Palestinians. That what he said about Hamas, the group that was democratically chosen by the poor Palestinian people (Their platform was basically - Kill Jews). He also converted to Christianity later on
don't you realize what would happen if the Israelis would stop the occupation? YOU THINK THEY DON'T WANT TO? All it brings is troubles.

[Luxury-Yacht]

It really doesn't apply as apartheid. It just doesn't, no matter how anyone tries to bend it. I haven't heard Israel referred to in this way before I read this thread, either.

[Saruman200]

At 10/21/08 07:28 PM, zoolrule wrote:
Kill all Jews
-- Average Arab in 1870's-1940's's.

Kill all Israelis
--Average Arab in 1948's-now.

I will kill every single Israeli and drive them of with my holy spirit and jihad, and if not me, my children will. ALLAH ACHBAR.
-- Average Palestinian

BOOM.
-- His children.

Wait a minute here, explain to me how "Israeli Aparthide" is racist, but this isn't...

[DrAfrothunder]

At 10/22/08 09:32 AM, Saruman200 wrote:

At 10/21/08 07:28 PM, zoolrule wrote:
Kill all Jews
-- Average Arab in 1870's-1940's's.

Kill all Israelis
--Average Arab in 1948's-now.

I will kill every single Israeli and drive them of with my holy spirit and jihad, and if not me, my children will. ALLAH ACHBAR.
-- Average Palestinian

I completely agree. The only glaring racism i've seen in this topic has come from you zoorule. You're quick to call anyone who doesn't support Israel an anti-semite and yet continue to ramble on about how bad islam and arabs are. THAT is racism.

BOOM.
-- His children.

Wait a minute here, explain to me how "Israeli Aparthide" is racist, but this isn't...

[DrAfrothunder]

oops. my words got put in the middle by accident. Sorry.

[zoolrule]

At 10/22/08 09:32 AM, Saruman200 wrote:

At 10/21/08 07:28 PM, zoolrule wrote:
Kill all Jews
-- Average Arab in 1870's-1940's's.

Kill all Israelis
--Average Arab in 1948's-now.

I will kill every single Israeli and drive them of with my holy spirit and jihad, and if not me, my children will. ALLAH ACHBAR.
-- Average Palestinian

BOOM.
-- His children.

Wait a minute here, explain to me how "Israeli Aparthide" is racist, but this isn't...

1. Wait, you read the whole message, so you agree with the rest, right?
2. I was joking.
3. "Israeli Apartheid" is not racist, it's just dumb, and untrue.
4. Being racist, is about "races" what does both of things have to do with racism? fundamentalism, maybe.