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At 10/15/08 05:37 PM, poxpower wrote: I'm tired of this bullshit where I have to guess if a person is religiously jewish, or genetically jewish and they get offended if I guess wrong.

There's also "Culturally Jewish". For instance, someone who demands Kosher food, because that's what he's eaten his whole life, not because he believes God approves it. Doesn't make him that much more sane, though.

"Judaism" isn't a "race". Race refers to various aspects of humanity that you can see, such as being black, white, or having some of the various Asian phenotypes. But truly it has no real effect in nearly all aspects.

Judaism is considered, however, an ethno-religious entity. Some Jews can trace their heritage to the tribes of Judea. Due to the fact that other people can convert it does get a big foggy in the ethnic aspect, of course, but the fact that it is a tradition to try not to marry non-Jews makes it less so. And this of course isn't always followed, especially in the US, but you get the idea.

At 10/15/08 05:37 PM, poxpower wrote:

\

At 10/15/08 05:17 PM, Menelaus wrote:

First of all, that's an actual ingredient that composes the beverage and is written plainly on the can. The "K" symbol is virtually unknown to people. So already there, you're not even getting the information you should about how the product is made.

It's not a secret or anything. You're just being silly now.

And people can boycott whatever the fuck they want, I don't see why people go so damn angry at me suggesting we should boycott something with a religious connotation. Tools.

You have brought your bitchiness to our attention, and we feel we must harass and make fun of you for it.

Poxpower let me say this again.

This is like saying that sushi is a waste of money.

It's a style of food.

Blessing has nil to nothing to do with why most people buy it, and those are people that by it because they CHOOSE to buy it.

No one is forcing you to buy it. And saying that soon all food will be held to those standards is fucking ridiculous. When has any mainstream industry ever been prone to quality over quantity?

Also on the race issue. From what I read here, there are certain sub sects of Jews that could be considered racially related. But as a whole it is viewed as a religion.

At 10/15/08 06:38 PM, Menelaus wrote:

And people can boycott whatever the fuck they want, I don't see why people go so damn angry at me suggesting we should boycott something with a religious connotation. Tools.

You have brought your bitchiness to our attention, and we feel we must harass and make fun of you for it.

You're just pissed that even though this is not really important, I'm right and there's nothing any of you can say against it.

At 10/15/08 06:52 PM, poxpower wrote: You're just pissed that even though this is not really important, I'm right and there's nothing any of you can say against it.

I have a feeling that this is true.

Or perhaps this point is actually important, and it's sign of a zionist conspiracy? The Jews are poisoning our food with their blessings, so soon we'll all be Hasidic, with curly hair coils and proper clothing and strict opinions based on books written by goat herders.

At 10/15/08 05:37 PM, poxpower wrote: I don't see why people go so damn angry at me suggesting we should boycott something with a religious connotation.

Because it's a dumb, useless idea. I mean hey, if YOU want to search every single label for kosher signs and if YOU want to ask every waiter and waitress about their kosher policies to avoid something that's already been debunked (re: the 'Kosher tax') all "out of principle"... then fine, cool, knock yourself out. At least face the fact that you've successfully convinced ZERO people to do the same thing, therefore both you and your topic are just one big gelatinous mass of failure.

Hmm, a "dumb, uesless idea"... now isn't that the same reason you get mad at religions and the people who ascribe to them? For sticking really hard to something that you think is completely ridiculous? So, are you really THAT shocked that no one is rallying behind your stupid self-righteous indignation over shit that doesn't even matter to them?

Again. It's not religous more than a style.

It's basically like "this meat was taken extra care of."

I fail to see what's religious about that.

Yes, they have someone bless it, but that is like, a non-existent cost really compared to the extra handling that goes into it.

I don't know the science behind the methods but, perhaps, it is not as effective as people lead you to believe. THAT is the reason and the ONLY reason you should be complaining.

At 10/15/08 07:13 PM, JackPhantasm wrote: I fail to see what's religious about that.
Yes, they have someone bless it

Yeah, apparently you do fail.

The reason the whole process exists is for its religious symbolism. If it was ONLY a matter of how it was prepared then you're right, it wouldn't be a religious thing. Except that, you know, you're wrong.

At 10/15/08 06:55 PM, Tancrisism wrote:

The Jews are poisoning our food with their blessings\

They're just wasting time and money, nothing spooky about that.
I don't see why people would think I'm trying to spin this to make them out to be the ultimate manipulators. They're just sneaking this shit into our food. Yes, SNEAKING. That's what you call it when almost no one has any idea what the little "K" means and it's not explained anywhere on the package.

When a product is peanut-free, they don't put a little "PF" symbol, they just write: peanut-free. I'd be quite curious to see if people would still buy as much of that stuff if it was clearly written "kosher" instead of "k".

Whatever.

At 10/15/08 07:08 PM, Cornbucket wrote:

(re: the 'Kosher tax')

Bam, I fucking knew it. All you want is to make me out to be an evil anti-semitic conspiracy theorist.
The "kosher tax"??? did you even read that article? When the fuck did I ever claim this was costing us an "exorbitant amount of money"??

Holy shit, stop trying to put your spin on this.

At 10/15/08 07:22 PM, Cornbucket wrote:

Except that, you know, you're wrong.

I'm not exaggerating when I say that Jack is wrong 100% of the time.

When a product is peanut-free, they don't put a little "PF" symbol, they just write: peanut-free. I'd be quite curious to see if people would still buy as much of that stuff if it was clearly written "kosher" instead of "k".

Name one package that says "peanut-free", because the only warning I've ever seen is "may contain peanuts", not "peanut-free".

Last I checked, flank steak didn't come with a big peanut-free label......

And people can boycott whatever the fuck they want, I don't see why people go so damn angry at me suggesting we should boycott something with a religious connotation. Tools.

Stupid should be avoided. Your own friggin words.

At least you're admitting this isn't about being "duped", it's about religion.

I hear yah, but no thanks asshat. I'd rather not go 15 miles out of my way for an absolutely stupid premise of "principle". I'd rather protest something that's not gonna make me look like a complete douche.

See image below of a protest that outranks yours.
Now THAT'S a cause worth dying for!!

At 10/15/08 07:58 PM, Imperator wrote:

Name one package that says "peanut-free"

Didn't you ever see the new wraping for snickers and mars candy bars? It says right on top of it "blahblah no peanuts, we're so amazing".

here' one: http://www.brandchannel.com/images/Home/
368_home_img1_mars2.jpg

I'd rather protest something that's not gonna make me look like a complete douche.

Right, I sure am a douche for refusing to buy kosher products when I didn't want any. Shit, someone call the douche patrol so they can lock me up in the asylum.

Wait, actually who cares if something is right in principle or not? What's important is: will people think I'm a douche if I tell them about it?

At 10/15/08 07:41 PM, poxpower wrote:

At 10/15/08 07:08 PM, Cornbucket wrote:

(re: the 'Kosher tax')

Bam, I fucking knew it. All you want is to make me out to be an evil anti-semitic conspiracy theorist.
The "kosher tax"??? did you even read that article? When the fuck did I ever claim this was costing us an "exorbitant amount of money"??

Holy shit, stop trying to put your spin on this.

Did YOU even read the article, or are those the only four words your beady eyes were able to pick up on? Not once did I say you claimed it was an exorbitant amount of money, and as I recall, the only words we've been using this whole time to describe the cost factor are terms like 'pennies', 'cents', 'a nickel', etc. Besides that, nearly everything else in the article pretty much fits your position. Whether it's one penny or one-hundred-thousand dollars you think it's costing you more money that you shouldn't have to spend and you think there's all these other odd pressures to conform to kosher standards besides normal market influences.

STOP PROJECTING, POX. YOU'RE PROJECTING, YOU PROJECTING PROJECTOR YOU.

No, but really now -- respond to the fact that you've miserably failed at convincing anyone to do what you're suggesting they do. Respond to the claim that your idea is a stupid one and a massive waste of time and effort. Address the issue that you sound like an eight year-old moron when you say stupid shit like "I'm right and there's nothing any of you can say against it." Is that debate or a whiny crybaby temper-tantrum?

MUCH has been said already, but you... you "just don't see it."

BUT... can you see why kids love the taste of Apple Jacks? I mean, it doesn't even taste like apples!

At 10/15/08 08:19 PM, Cornbucket wrote:

and you think there's all these other odd pressures to conform to kosher standards besides normal market influences.

Yeah, where did I say that?
When did I ever say I wish I could use the money otherwise?

I understand perfectly well that the only reason companies turn kosher is because it costs them less than it's worth in market. It's the principle I disagree with, not the actual cost. I think I'd still think it was retarded if it cost NOTHING.

respond to the fact that you've miserably failed at convincing anyone to do what you're suggesting they do.

"not convincing people" is not an argument as to the validity of anything.

Respond to the claim that your idea is a stupid one and a massive waste of time and effort.

I have many times but you're just hellbent on saying that what I'm doing is stupid because it's not worth it financially as if that was the end-all way to gauge the validity of an action.

At 10/15/08 06:52 PM, poxpower wrote:

You're just pissed that even though this is not really important, I'm right and there's nothing any of you can say against it.

Ah yes, the "I'm right and I CAN'T HEAR YOU NANANANANA" defense.

At 10/15/08 08:14 PM, poxpower wrote: Right, I sure am a douche for refusing to buy kosher products when I didn't want any. Shit, someone call the douche patrol so they can lock me up in the asylum.

Wait, actually who cares if something is right in principle or not? What's important is: will people think I'm a douche if I tell them about it?

The funny thing is that I'm certain you've been buying and consuming kosher products for years now. So, obviously you wanted them... not because they were deemed kosher of course, but still -- you WANTED those products.

Now you actually want to avoid them completely, knowing that beforehand, you were consuming them all along without a care in the world. But NOW, since you learned that a religious organization might be getting some funding from it, that's principle-enough for you to avoid it altogether.

That's why I asked you that question in the other thread. If you were sick or injured, would you refuse treatment at a religiously-affiliated hospital? You KNOW that you wouldn't, admit it, so your 'principle' is really just a bug steamy pile of bullshit. THAT, tampox, is what makes you a douche.

Don't try to dance around it by saying you pay your insurance company or whatever... because the insurance company pays the hospital, and the hospital pays any religious organization or service or structure in turn. There are hospital chapels that need to be maintained, priests who come in to give the last rites, so on and so forth. So, whatever YOU pay is indirectly funding that stuff too! Where's your outrage then? When it's a matter of your health you'd probably suck-off a crucifix if it could help you any, but when it's a matter of peanut butter and jelly you're MAD AS HELL AND NOT GOING TO TAKE IT ANYMOREEE!!!

...

As a matter of fact, I doubt you're even going to boycott this stuff yourself. You're either going to forget to look or you'll soon enough realize that there's no point in being concerned about it anyway.

At 10/15/08 08:30 PM, poxpower wrote: you're just hellbent on saying that what I'm doing is stupid because it's not worth it financially as if that was the end-all way to gauge the validity of an action.

It's stupid for lots of reasons. See above for what I think about your 'principle.'

You're hell-bent on painting yourself the victim. "Man I'm not allowed to complain about anything Jewish, why is everyone attacking me, wah wah wah!!!" Complain about whatever you want but if you have shitty reasoning then we're going to let you know about it.

At 10/15/08 08:40 PM, Cornbucket wrote:

But NOW, since you learned that a religious organization might be getting some funding from it, that's principle-enough for you to avoid it altogether.

Yes you're catching on, Einstein. And it's not because it's a "religious organization", it's because there's no scientific basis behind the claims, i.e. that they "purify the food" somehow.

At 10/15/08 08:43 PM, Cornbucket wrote:

Complain about whatever you want but if you have shitty reasoning then we're going to let you know about it.

What part of the "I don't want to buy something I don't need or want" reasoning is shitty again?
Oh right, that you personally think it's not financially worth it to take the time to do it.

And I'd also love to raise this point:

If I'm stupid for selecting against it, how is it not stupid to select FOR it? I.e. what jews do.
Not to mention that I do it on scientific principles, while they do it just because they've been told to.

Holy shit.

At 10/15/08 09:20 PM, poxpower wrote: And I'd also love to raise this point:

If I'm stupid for selecting against it, how is it not stupid to select FOR it? I.e. what jews do.

LOL topic redirection. Suddenly, its the other religion topics all over again.

At least some of us have the dignity to admit defeat.

At 10/15/08 06:52 PM, poxpower wrote:

You're just pissed that even though this is not really important, I'm right and there's nothing any of you can say against it.

I find your seething hatred of religion to be pretty hilarious. Were you gang raped by a Priest, Rabbi, Imam, and Ron Hubbard himself when you were a kid? I mean, seriously, your extreme bias makes any kind of debate with you pointless, because you completely ignore anything anyone says, and call them stupid or inferior when they make a valid point.

and if it's not important, why make a topic about it? the answer? its just another way for you to vent your hate on a forum where you feel important.

anyway, to add some fuel to your hatred, I present Soy Vay!

At 10/14/08 04:51 PM, poxpower wrote:

At 10/14/08 07:37 AM, Elfer wrote: are we paying more, or is the company merely receiving more market share in exchange for their expense?

Not important: you are keeping a spell-casting magic man in employ to go around blessing food.

And? Obviously there is enough demand for the service that people can afford to hire someone to do this for them. If we look at it from a supply and demand standpoint, it's not us paying to keep the magic man in business, it's not the company paying to keep the magic man in business, it's the consumers who refuse to buy anything else but something blessed by a magic man. They're the ones supplying the extra funds to companies in order to hire someone to bless the food.

This sort of action has no negative impact on anyone, except for the idealist impact that it's wrong to pay someone to cast spells of +2 holiness on foods. And to be quite frank, we're never going to put those people out of business until boycotts of orthodox Judaism become socially acceptable.

Until then, I'm not going to go out of my way to ensure that I'm not buying kosher foods. The only time it would affect me is if I was buying a more obscure food with a lower volume of sales, when there would actually be a price difference.

At 10/15/08 09:33 PM, Korriken wrote: anyway, to add some fuel to your hatred, I present Soy Vay!

God help me I lol'd.

At 10/15/08 09:11 PM, poxpower wrote: And it's not because it's a "religious organization", it's because there's no scientific basis behind the claims, i.e. that they "purify the food" somehow.

It's one in the same to you, isn't it?

What part of the "I don't want to buy something I don't need or want" reasoning is shitty again?
Oh right, that you personally think it's not financially worth it to take the time to do it.

That's a start. The other shitty part about your reasoning is that you AREN'T "buying something you don't need or want" -- you aren't buying the rabbi and you aren't buying the words he used to bless the food with. You're buying PEANUT BUTTER you fucking idiot!

At 10/15/08 09:20 PM, poxpower wrote: And I'd also love to raise this point:

If I'm stupid for selecting against it, how is it not stupid to select FOR it? I.e. what jews do.

It's not stupid for them because it DIRECTLY AFFECTS THEM. It's stupid for you because it doesn't.

Not to mention that I do it on scientific principles, while they do it just because they've been told to.

Not to mention that saying "they just do it because they were told to" is another one of your poorly-conceived strawman arguments.

I'd also love to raise the point that you're an immense faggot for ignoring the hospital argument I made before. "Holy shit" is right, you suck at this.

At 10/15/08 09:11 PM, poxpower wrote:

Yes you're catching on, Einstein. And it's not because it's a "religious organization", it's because there's no scientific basis behind the claims, i.e. that they "purify the food" somehow.

actually, there is a lot of science behind the kosher process. They don't eat scavengers (rotting meats often carry diseases, which scavengers routinely eat), they don't eat pork, rabbit, or rodent (parasite ridden meat), They draw the blood from the meat (blood is a bacteria friendly medium), don't eat fat (bacteria grows well in fat). also, eating meat and dairy together is asking to tear your stomach up. Your body cannot properly digest them both together. The Kosher slaughter may sound inhumane, but the animal dies quickly from mass blood loss. the cut they make severs all the major vessels in the throat, if done perfectly, the animal loses consciousness in moments. If botched, you get one hell of a show. It's very rarely botched.

They may not have KNOWN about bacteria at the time, but they did know how to keep their food clean. The method of slaughter is VERY sanitary, more so than any non kosher slaughterhouse. I used to work in one, it was a very nasty place.

What relevance does it have to today? I dunno, but i do know this much. if you don't properly cook your pig, you can end up with trichinosis. and once you have it, there is no known way to kill the larvae, or the worms imbedded into your muscles. From what I read, your body usually manages to get rid of the worms within a couple of years.... YEARS. Could be a damned good reason why jews don't eat pig, predators, or scavengers. disease prevention. Not scientific eh?

What part of the "I don't want to buy something I don't need or want" reasoning is shitty again?
Oh right, that you personally think it's not financially worth it to take the time to do it.

well, if you WANT to take the time to check everything you purchase for a Kosher symbol so you don't buy it, then you're gonna be spending a lot of time at the grocery store. I checked the stuff in my pantry for the symbol. very few items I purchase don't have it. Even my ketchup is kosher. The honey baked ham doesn't have it... fancy that.

You can avoid it if you want, hell you might even have a good idea to open an expressly NON kosher store. I'm sure there's someone out there just like you who would shop at a store that refuses kosher foods. Of course, your shelves won't have a lot of variety.

At 10/15/08 09:33 PM, Korriken wrote: call them stupid or inferior when they make a valid point.

Sort of like what you're doing coming in here, ignoring 100% of what I wrote just to take time to insult me as much as possible?
How's the hypocrite? Delicious?

and if it's not important, why make a topic about it? the answer? its just another way for you to vent your hate on a forum where you feel important.

Yeah, what's wrong with that? What do you think everyone else is doing on an internet forum?

At 10/15/08 09:38 PM, Elfer wrote:

it's the consumers who refuse to buy anything else but something blessed by a magic man.

Yes, so? I don't want to pay for it, what's wrong with that?
This entire topic is about me thinking it's wrong in principle that I should pay, even the smallest amount, for someone's superstition.

until boycotts of orthodox Judaism become socially acceptable.

How are they going to be if everyone just shoots down every attempt instantly?
Gotta start somewhere no matter how tiny or insignificant it seems.
< obscenely self-aggrandizing comparison> Like Rosa parks. She should just have shut up and stood on the bus, what did she have to gain? Just more people bitching at her and making her walk home? What a dumb bitch, right?</obscenely self-aggrandizing comparison>

At 10/15/08 09:41 PM, dySWN wrote:

At 10/15/08 09:33 PM, Korriken wrote: anyway, to add some fuel to your hatred, I present Soy Vay!

God help me I lol'd.

I wonder what will happen to you the day it dawns on you that you're an idiot :O
Oh well, until then, please continue going from topic to topic, never contributing anything other than one-line posts about how you agree/disagree about certain attacks or about how you think a thread is useful or not.

BLAH you guys are so funneh. I love you guys <3

At 10/15/08 09:47 PM, Cornbucket wrote:

It's one in the same to you, isn't it?

Yes.

You're buying PEANUT BUTTER you fucking idiot!

BLESSED peanut butter. If I have the choice between BLESSED peanut butter and NON-BLESSED peanut butter, guess which one I will pick?

Dear lord. I can't understand how you keep trying to twist this haha.

It's not stupid for them because it DIRECTLY AFFECTS THEM.

How does it affect them more than me? Does kosher food give jewish people superpowers? Cause I wasn't aware of any extra effects it had on them.

Not to mention that saying "they just do it because they were told to" is another one of your poorly-conceived strawman arguments.

If you can see any scientific reasoning behind favoring kosher food over non-kosher food, please lay it out. Then you still have to prove that they KNOW about those facts and that they're picking the products KNOWING THEM.

Till then, you have no grounds to deny that the only reason they pick it is pure superstition, i.e. religious ubringing, i.e. "do this because you're a jew" and not "do this because it's better for your health".

I'd also love to raise the point that you're an immense faggot for ignoring the hospital argument I made before.

I already answered it, but here it goes again:

1- If I had a choice in healthcare, why would I pick the religious one?
You're making a faulty comparison by forcing me into a "you have no choice" situation when this entire topic is about me having the choice between a kosher product and non-kosher one.

2-I don't care why I buy a product from as long as I am paying for the product or service and not for the religious practice. If I have brain surgery, I don't pay for him praying at me, I pay him to perform surgery. I don't care what race, color or religion he is, I just want him to do his job. I don't want him to charge me any extras for bullshit, no matter how small.
If he does decide to hike the price of his service up purely on the "my service is worth X", then it's fine, there's nothing I can say about that, no matter what he spends the money on.

But if, on the bill, there's extra lines like "rain-dancing fees", "crystal mat" and "anti-werewolf serum" then I don't want any part of it, or I'll want to steer clear of it when possible.

And if I ever found out he's just jacking his prices to fund some religious shit, I'd have to seek out someone else.
It's all about choice.

Sweet! Jesus-O's for all!

At 10/15/08 10:10 PM, poxpower wrote: At 10/15/08 09:33 PM, Korriken wrote: call them stupid or inferior when they make a valid point.
How's the hypocrite? Delicious?

You tell me.

and if it's not important, why make a topic about it? the answer? its just another way for you to vent your hate on a forum where you feel important.

Yeah, what's wrong with that? What do you think everyone else is doing on an internet forum?

Mods should be held at a higher standard for one. this is a political forum and and not a "I hate religion" forum. I don't see how this thread can be considered political anyway. No political mention at all. If someone made a "I hate McCain thread" it would be locked due to the massive pile of McCain/Obama threads. and here you are with a religious thread, in a massive pile of religious threads. Hypocrite must be delicious.

1) Kashrut is not scientific, does not claim to be and is no guarantee of a food being good for a person. It is a religious set of rules and any rabbit will tell you that. The reason it is followed is because "god said so."

2) Prices remain unaffected regardless of whether the Kashrut symbol is on a package or not.

3) Occasionally others who aren't jewish can know immediately by the symbol whether or not that product is dangerous to them due to allergies.

Your argument is invalid, and the people arguing against you don't know what they are talking about.

At 10/15/08 10:18 PM, Brian wrote: 1) Kashrut is not scientific, does not claim to be and is no guarantee of a food being good for a person. It is a religious set of rules and any rabbit will tell you that. The reason it is followed is because "god said so."

This is true that is does not claim to be scientific, however, you can find science when you look. There was no science behind the creation of ancient martial arts. However, when you look into it, you can find a lot of science behind it. I can say there was no science behind the cannon, Someone made a thick steel tube, loaded a big metal ball and some combustible powder into it and used it to take the gate off a wall. but if you break it down, you got a lot of science behind it. velocity, angle of the ball, tensile strength of the gate, many things.

Your argument is invalid, and the people arguing against you don't know what they are talking about.

Something like that.