Newgrounds.com — Everything, By Everyone.

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At 10/15/08 12:55 AM, Cornbucket wrote:

I don't agree with Scientology's beliefs and practices so apparently that makes me a racist according to you.

There's just no word for excluding people of a certain faith. And if you were to discriminate against someone because they're scientologist, then you'd be a douchebag. But if you don't do something that scientology preaches, then that's ok because scientology is retarded.

But you're clearly implying that I am avoiding kosher shit SPECIFICALLY BECAUSE IT'S JEWISH, which is false.

Well, before you said it wasn't REALLY about the money anyway. And now you finally admit that it doesn't harm people. So now all you have left is "it's a time waster".

Dear lord, you still don't understand this part?
Well I'm through trying to ram that into your head.

News alert: A boycott would be an even bigger waste of time.

Yes, the act of NOT DOING SOMETHING sure is a waste of time.
Dear lord, kick yourself in the balls.

But, of course, that ISN'T the case. If kosher food sold better than non-kosher food, the "pressure" to offer more of it wouldn't be "just because", it'd be due to obvious market demand.

I should really get a werewolf-cure comity on foot to insure that food won't turn anyone into a werewolf. Apparently it would increase sales to people of my denominations and everyone is too much of a pussy to complain that it's useless, so I could pretty much have a whole institute for it.

Then someone would post on the BBS about how stupid it is to have non-werewolf food and you'd find an idiot defending the werewolf logo because "blahblah it doesn't cost a lot blah blah people want to sell it blahblah you're anti-werewolfite".

Again, how do you know any of that?

Because people aren't retards?
Hey, do you want to pay one cent for a voodoo priest to inspect your car?

Yes?
Holy shit, theory confirmed; you're a moron.

You yourself clearly JUST LEARNED ABOUT THIS...

Yes, because I learned about it just a couple months ago, I should clearly ignore it.

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I thought that K meant Kike. I personally don't mind kosher food but I won't go out of my way to get it. I for one love me some filthy cloven animal flesh that is killed in the most gruesome method possible.

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At 10/15/08 12:58 AM, Imperator wrote:

You're mad because companies are jacking up their prices (or so you think they are) to cater to a religious group. Period. That's your complaint.

Yes, what did you think I was complaining about??

And you're outraged because that group happens to be religious.

Huh, no. I already told you, I don't want to buy any unscientific bullshit from anyone. I'm sure I get ripped off all the time and I don't even know it, but at least I'll know about this one and I can make an effort to catch it.

But hey, I'm with you. All those fucking peanut allergy people need their fucking labels, and the company's jacking up the price to put that label on!! I don't wanna have to pay for YOUR fucking peanut allergy, so I'm boycotting all peanut allergy labelling companies and products.

Go ahead, nothing's stopping you. It's the same kind of bullshit anyways, where they have to take extra steps to make sure there's no peanuts in their factory. At least I know they're doing something scientific and not some old superstition.

But I'd totally understand if someone didn't want to buy any "peanut-free' bullshit products. Good for allergic people if they can find something to eat, I don't want to pay for it, it's not my problem.

Not only that, but those "Careful! Extremely Hot!" signs I'm paying for. I know it's hot, and I REFUSE to pay extra for the fuckwads who need the label to tell them it's hot!! It's the principleof the thing!!

That's also a good point. Companies DO have to waste a lot of money to prevent lawsuits from total assholes. I'm doing my part by not trying to find stupid shit to sue companies about.
At any rate, updating a label doesn't cost anything since they'd do it anyway. Hiring some costumed idiot to inspect a meat plant DOES cost extra.

While we're at it, let's go for broke Pox:Let's boycot any company that advertises to a particular group of people and incorporates that expense into the cost of the product.

Yeah, why not? Why wouldn't I boycott food that costs me extra because it meets the approval of the NBA or whatever way that you could tack on extra costs for targetting a special group or race.

If you find a way to make asian-approved food, please show me and I'll promptly not buy it.

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I should really get a werewolf-cure comity on foot to insure that food won't turn anyone into a werewolf. Apparently it would increase sales to people of my denominations and everyone is too much of a pussy to complain that it's useless, so I could pretty much have a whole institute for it.

Newsflash.

If a company wants to alter its product, or the advertising of its product to appeal to a certain group of people, they can. If they want to tack the expense of those changes onto the cost of the product, they can.

Why aren't you going after the playing card company that puts naked women on the deck? Clearly they're doing the exact same thing: altering the product with something completely useless to appeal to a certain group of people.

This is like being mad at novely pen companies because the extra cost you pay for having a pen with a bobblehead attachment doesn't actually help you write any better......

Get real.

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At 10/15/08 01:22 AM, poxpower wrote:
Yes, what did you think I was complaining about??

Exactly that. I wasn't sure YOU realized what you were complaining about.
Seriously, how many people have to tell you this is completely pointless before your ego allows your brain to detect the possibility that this is completely pointless?

Huh, no. I already told you, I don't want to buy any unscientific bullshit from anyone. I'm sure I get ripped off all the time and I don't even know it, but at least I'll know about this one and I can make an effort to catch it.

The products being kosher aren't meant to appeal to your purchasing power sweetheart. Your mad because your paying for product placement that doesn't appeal to YOU. Period. Science has nothing to do with this.

Go ahead, nothing's stopping you. It's the same kind of bullshit anyways,

Good god. Ok. I wasn't sure you were actually arguing this, but you are. You're actually making a big deal out of companies advertising to specific groups of people. That's the only issue here. The company's doing something to advertise to a specific group of people, and you're mad, because the advertising cost is embedded in the product cost.

Yeah, why not?

BECAUSE EVERY FUCKING COMPANY DOES IT!! I'd be boycotting every product ever made.
Because, here's the kicker Charlotte, in a crazy scheme to make money, some companies put out products engineered to appeal to groups of people, and sometimes alter products to appeal to more groups of people.

Your mad because you pay for the logo that appeals to Jews. Are you mad that the same company puts marshmallows in the cereal to appeal to kids?

If you find a way to make asian-approved food, please show me and I'll promptly not buy it.

Two words:
Soy milk.

I demand you boycott every cereal that contains marshmallows or cartoon shapes to appeal to kids, fiber to appeal to the elderly, lactose-intolerant ingredients to appeal to asians, and every cereal that contains whole grains to appeal to white middle class adults.

I also demand you boycott all beers that use sex to advertise to men, all deoderants that are specific for men or women, all men's bathrooms, cease using all urinals, stop using all cars that appeal to a certain group (soccer mom minivans, junkers for college kids, sedans for families, convertibles, SUVs, and luxury vehicles).

Get real, then get bent.

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I hate throat-cutting religions. Stop animal torture for fuck sake.

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At 10/15/08 01:13 AM, poxpower wrote: There's just no word for excluding people of a certain faith.

Why does there have to be a word for it? Prefixes like non-, or the more aggressive anti- aren't good enough? Either way, "racist" is NOT the correct term to use and you look like a fucking idiot for using it.

And if you were to discriminate against someone because they're scientologist, then you'd be a douchebag.

You're descriminating against every religion out there! That makes you king of douchebaggery in my estimation. Hell, you might as well change your name to -tampaxpower- !!!

But you're clearly implying that I am avoiding kosher shit SPECIFICALLY BECAUSE IT'S JEWISH, which is false.

I never implied that. I did however say you avoid kosher because it's religious, period.

I think you have an issue with understanding the point behind the whole grape thing. The Jewish restriction wasn't a matter of being racist towards pagans (since it's, DURR, not a actual race), it was a matter of not condoning their beliefs and practices. To use a product made by-pagans-for-pagans for Jewish ritual use is symbolically retarded.

Dear lord, you still don't understand this part?
Well I'm through trying to ram that into your head.

I think you're just reeling from having every single weak argument of yours shot to shit.

News alert: A boycott would be an even bigger waste of time.

Yes, the act of NOT DOING SOMETHING sure is a waste of time.

Man, you're stupid.

A boycott is not a passive act of doing nothing. It's a proactive act of avoidance and exclusion. Boycotting kosher products means you'll actually have to scan every label for every food product you ever buy and inquire about kosher policy at every single fast food place or restaurant you ever visit. Yeah, it SURE IS a waste of time... not to mention that through your own link you've shown that the market actually demands more kosher products. So you'd be boycotting something that people either actively WANT or passively have no particular reason to be concerned about.

Dear lord, kick yourself in the balls.

I'd ask you to do the same but you seem to lack the necessary hardware. :(

I should really get a werewolf-cure comity on foot to insure that food won't turn anyone into a werewolf. Apparently it would increase sales to people of my denominations and everyone is too much of a pussy to complain that it's useless, so I could pretty much have a whole institute for it.
Then someone would post on the BBS about how stupid it is to have non-werewolf food and you'd find an idiot defending the werewolf logo because "blahblah it doesn't cost a lot blah blah people want to sell it blahblah you're anti-werewolfite".

Warp zone level 10 officially reached.

Again, how do you know any of that?

Because people aren't retards?
Hey, do you want to pay one cent for a voodoo priest to inspect your car?

Yes?
Holy shit, theory confirmed; you're a moron.

You really suck at this arguing and debating thing, you know? In this instance people aren't retards because OF COURSE, THEY THINK JUST LIKE YOU but in other instances where it's convenient for you they actually are just a big bunch of stupids.

You yourself clearly JUST LEARNED ABOUT THIS...

Yes, because I learned about it just a couple months ago, I should clearly ignore it.

You found out about kosher labelling months back and it took you THIS LONG to come up with such a shitty and useless plan as this? Dude you suck.

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At 10/15/08 01:36 AM, Imperator wrote:

The products being kosher aren't meant to appeal to your purchasing power sweetheart.

Because people don't complain, more and more food becomes kosher because there's no incentive to NOT make it kosher. Hence eventually, the majority of food will be kosher, no one will know about it and millions of people will inadvertently fund pseudoscience.

And I am of the humble opinion that we should get rid of as much pseudoscience as we possibly can.

You're actually making a big deal out of companies advertising to specific groups of people.

First of all, practically no one BUT jewish people know about the Kosher sign, so to claim that this is "advertising" is pretty twisted. It's PANDERING. It's LOBBYING.

Second, I don't see why I shouldn't give people this information. If you don't care, then by all means buy kosher food. I won't because I don't like the idea of paying a rabbi when I eat Trix and as such I will encourage others to follow suit.

WHAT, ARE YOU MAKING A BIG DEAL OUT OF SOMEONE PUSHING HIS OPINION OH MY GOD ON NO OR DEAR OH MY

BECAUSE EVERY FUCKING COMPANY DOES IT!!

And I can choose what advertising I agree with and what advertising I don't.
What's wrong with that?
And not to mention that trying to pass the "kosher" symbol as simple advertising is sort of underhanded since it's related to the fabrication process of the food and not just marketing it.

Soy milk.

How is that asian-approved? Where are they adding money to the fabrication process of soy milk to make it more asian?

At 10/15/08 01:52 AM, Cornbucket wrote:

Why does there have to be a word for it?

There's one for jews. So why wouldn't there be one for every other religion?
If you hold that "anti-semite" is no more a word than "anti-unicornites" ( people who are against unicron worshippers ) then you're right.

You're descriminating against every religion out there!

How so?

I never implied that. I did however say you avoid kosher because it's religious, period.

It's UNSCIENTIFIC. It's the only reason.

it was a matter of not condoning their beliefs and practices.

Yeah and that is retarded. There's no scientific basis behind their action, there is one behind mine: making something kosher is useless and therefore worth exactly 0$

A boycott is not a passive act of doing nothing. It's a proactive act of avoidance and exclusion. Boycotting kosher products means you'll actually have to scan every label for every food product you ever buy and inquire about kosher policy at every single fast food place or restaurant you ever visit.

Yep got me there.

you've shown that the market actually demands more kosher products.

That's a false inflation specifically because no one boycotts it and more and more companies turn to kosher certification knowing full well no one will say a damn thing.
They actually sell more kosher shit than there are jews. Yeah I'm going to believe that non-jews DEMAND kosher food.

Warp zone level 10 officially reached.

Yeah, when it's a rabbi, it's not stupid at all, but when it's a sasquatch it's so crazy and out of this world! I love it that people somehow value religion above pseudo-science. Grow up.
Both have the same scientific value today; none. Modern food inspection has entirely replaced any use kosher laws had 4000+ years ago in the desert.

You really suck at this arguing and debating thing, you know? In this instance people aren't retards because OF COURSE, THEY THINK JUST LIKE YOU

Can I interest you in making your food Alien-free? I will go into every factory and inspect the food myself to make sure it meets the standards of Alien-Free food.

Wow how can I possibly predict what people will say to that? I would have to be some kind of wizard!

You found out about kosher labelling months back and it took you THIS LONG to come up with such a shitty and useless plan as this? Dude you suck.

Yes I devote all my time thinking about this.

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At 10/15/08 12:02 AM, poxpower wrote: Nothing, it was you who claimed that somehow, kosher food insured a good treatment of people, when it doesn't mention it at all.
Why not? Certainly not mentioned in their Kosher rules.
I assume he wouldn't put it on there just because he doesn't agree with how the company is run, but that doesn't have anything to do with Kosher laws or being Jewish.

I'm just reporting what I had read a few times sporadically in the news. Something about them made me think, "hey-- kosher is a good thing." I mean, this was 2003 (when that Brazilian Slave coffee was in the news.) And in 2005, when I flipped on the TV and saw a small news report on a few rabbais advocating for humaine treatment of Californian migrant workers... and they used Kosher laws to make their point.

So I wrongly assumed that you would call me antisemitic if I declared I don't drink wine if it was produced by a jewish person?

Wow you're kind of an ass, because that WOULD be antisemitic. And it sure sounds a lot different than not buying grap products from non-jewish people... oh wait...
Oops. Kosher laws are inherently racist. Oops. You support a racist worldview if you buy Kosher grape products from now on.
Sorry I told you, now you can't ignore it anymore :(

Wait for it...

Nah, I'm just overthinking, right? It's not that big a deal if it's just a LITTLE racism and it doesn't really affect anyone, so let's just not even act like it's wrong and make me out to be the bad guy.

Straight to the point:
Dickhead.

fo-she-zees-rizzle-dizzle-lees?

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Pox, where's your moral outrage at novelty pens?

It qualifies all the same criteria.

A change to a product with an unscientific and useless purpose, made to pander to a specific group of people, with the cost of the change embedded into the price of the product.

I'd like to retract my previous statement:

This is not like being mad at novely pen companies because the extra cost you pay for having a pen with a bobblehead attachment doesn't actually help you write any better,
this IS being mad at novely pen comanies because the extra cost you pay for having a pen with a bobblehead attachment doesn't actually help you write any better.

And no, I don't care if you riot over this, you can protest for whatever the hell platform you want. Likewise, I'm gonna start a thread protesting novelty pen companies......

And so help me God if you lock it I will start a bigger shit storm than you can fathom.......

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At 10/15/08 02:13 AM, poxpower wrote:

At 10/15/08 01:52 AM, Cornbucket wrote:

Why does there have to be a word for it?

There's one for jews. So why wouldn't there be one for every other religion?
If you hold that "anti-semite" is no more a word than "anti-unicornites" ( people who are against unicron worshippers ) then you're right.

Anti-semite isn't a single word, it's a combination of words whose meaning should be obvious to you. You're free to put anti- in front of anything else you're against.

You're descriminating against every religion out there!

How so?

You think all religions are stupid, and you think anybody that follows a religion must be stupid for doing so. What is discrimination? "Making a distinction in favor of or against, a person or thing based on the group, class, or category to which that person or thing belongs rather than on individual merit"

I never implied that. I did however say you avoid kosher because it's religious, period.

It's UNSCIENTIFIC. It's the only reason.

it was a matter of not condoning their beliefs and practices.

Yeah and that is retarded. There's no scientific basis behind their action, there is one behind mine: making something kosher is useless and therefore worth exactly 0$

You're retarded for not comprehending that "scientific basis" isn't (and shouldn't be) the be-all end-all of why people do things. Let me give you an analogy (a good one, unlike the crappy ones you write):

The Olympic torch and the whole running around the world thing is a symbolic gesture. The torch itself, and all the people carrying it, scientifically has no point or purpose behind it whatsoever. That's obvious. Step outside of scientific thought for a second and you'll realize why it takes place at all -- the meaning it conveys to people and the emotional response it generates. To not want to use pagan wine for Jewish ritual would be the same as not wanting to use torches special-made for burning witches for use during the Olympic ceremony. It's completely out-of-sync with the entire meaning behind the production.

That's a false inflation specifically because no one boycotts it and more and more companies turn to kosher certification knowing full well no one will say a damn thing.

How is the fact that people aren't boycotting it make it a "false inflation"? That'd make it, I don't know, a regular inflation.

Yeah, when it's a rabbi, it's not stupid at all, but when it's a sasquatch it's so crazy and out of this world! I love it that people somehow value religion above pseudo-science. Grow up.

Bigfoot has no inwardly personal significance for anyone. Religion has that covered in droves.

Can I interest you in making your food Alien-free? I will go into every factory and inspect the food myself to make sure it meets the standards of Alien-Free food.

Wow how can I possibly predict what people will say to that? I would have to be some kind of wizard!

It's easy to predict how people would react to strawman arguments as stupid as yours. "Would you want a rabbi to take a dump in your cookies? CUZ THAT'S WHAT THEY'RE DOING!" Well when you put it like that, no, I certainly wouldn't want a rabbi to take a dump in my cookies. Thanks for making me see the light.

As a matter of fact, if you approached me on the street trying to convince me of how bad or useless kosher food is, I'd be really suspicious of you. "What's in it for YOU?" I'd think. "Why do you care what other people buy?" Maybe you're just a salesman for the competition. I mean, you're trying REALLY HARD to convince me to spend my money elsewhere. You're even calling for a boycott! Surely you must have some sort of stake involved in this!? To think you're just doing it out of the "goodness of your heart" would be truly gullible.

No, people aren't retarded. That's because they don't think the exact same way you do.

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At 10/15/08 02:40 AM, fli wrote:

and they used Kosher laws to make their point.

What law?

At 10/15/08 02:48 AM, Imperator wrote: Pox, where's your moral outrage at novelty pens?

Are novelty pens made using a process that is nonscientific?

A change to a product with an unscientific and useless purpose

Uh what's unscientific about making a pen???
It's useless, but you know that when you buy it. You don't know that when you buy a box of Triscuits with a litlte "K" hidden on the corner of the box.

And so help me God if you lock it I will start a bigger shit storm than you can fathom.......

Yes that sure scares me. Starting a thread stemming from your misunderstanding of a simple concept just to spite me sounds like a worthwhile endeavor.
Whatever I won't stop you.

At 10/15/08 02:54 AM, Cornbucket wrote:
Anti-semite isn't a single word, it's a combination of words whose meaning should be obvious to you. You're free to put anti- in front of anything else you're against.

Oh ok I'll go check dictionary.com to make sure that anti-semite is not a word above any other.
http://www.thefreedictionary.com/anti-Se mite
http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/a nti-semite

Sorry, there's no denying that this one particular usage of "anti-" gets special treatment over all others, to the point that anti-semite is pretty much the only actual WORD for saying you are against someone of a particular religion.

Not that it matters, I just think it gives idiots more excuses to try and dismiss anything that people say against anything even remotely connected to Judaism.

rather than on individual merit"

YOu forgot the part where religions are full of nonsense and picking them makes you a moron.
Sort of like hunting for werewolves. It's patently retarded. Boohoo now I'm discriminating against them based on their "religion" and not on their personal merit, or lack of.

You're retarded for not comprehending that "scientific basis" isn't (and shouldn't be) the be-all end-all of why people do things.

When it comes to APPROVING FOOD FOR HUMAN CONSUMPTION, it should.

How is the fact that people aren't boycotting it make it a "false inflation"?

Companies put out more and more on the shelves under the nose of people who keep buying the products. So if I just put a "k" on lays potatoe chips, no one will stop buying them and I'll have added all the regular "Lays" costumers to the "kosher" market, thus falsely giving the impression that there was any increase in the demand of kosher goods.

Bigfoot has no inwardly personal significance for anyone.

Hahaha really? YOu think that? There's people who SPENT THEIR LIVES hunting for it. Welcome to the world of pseudo-sciences.
There is no distinguishable difference between what religious people do and believe and what, say, an acupuncturist does, or a ghost channeler. It's all pseudo-science, none of it is any more legitimate than the other.

Just shows your own biased view towards religion. Yeah that's right, I'm not the one who's biased AGAINST it, you're the one who's biased IN FAVOR of it.

It's easy to predict how people would react to strawman arguments as stupid as yours.

Well give me your list of reasons why people would want to pay for Kosher food when they're not jewish, because I sure can't think of any. Unless you present it in a false pseudo-scientific light making people feel like the food is SAFER because it was inspected.

That is just lying to them to get them to answer what you want. They're not doing anything to the food, you're paying for a non-service, it's not a straw-man argument at all. Your food is just as safe before and after the rabbi inspects it. Net gain: NOTHING.
Worth of nothing : 0$

As a matter of fact, if you approached me on the street trying to convince me of how bad or useless kosher food is, I'd be really suspicious of you.

Nothing wrong with that. I hope you'd ask the same questions of someone trying to sell you on to kosher food too.

If you somehow conclude that I have anything to gain from saying this, then you can look at my income and you'll realize after about 3 second that I have no profit, so you'd be pretty fucked since you seem to want really hard to find reasons to hate me.

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When it comes to APPROVING FOOD FOR HUMAN CONSUMPTION, it should.

No. Stop. End.

A product being kosher is not in any way bypassing FDA or USDA requirements for food, your link made that very clear.

So this is NOT about a holy man superceding the FDA to approve food for human consumption, because there is no indication that even if it was Kosher, they still wouldn't have to go through FDA approval.

It's a very simple concept Pox. The fact that the food is blessed does NOT in any way affect its FDA requirements.

I'll repeat:

The fact that the food is blessed does NOT in any way affect its FDA requirements.
.
.
So this is NOT about religion approving food for human consumption. Try again.

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At 10/15/08 03:44 AM, Imperator wrote:

A product being kosher is not in any way bypassing FDA or USDA requirements for food, your link made that very clear.

First off, his point was that not everything has to be based on science, and I don't care to answer that except to say that laws on food CLEARLY should be based on science. So what you're saying here doesn't have anything to do with it, nor does it refute anything I've said.

Second: no shit they're not bypassing the FDA or USDA regulations. Thank God, that would be even worse.

It's a very simple concept Pox. The fact that the food is blessed does NOT in any way affect its FDA requirements.

No shit sherlock, it just cost money to do nothing useful. That's my entire point.

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Anyway, let me reiterate with a simple question. You are free to ignore 100% of everything I've said so far, just answer:

Why should I pay for a service that is useless, that I don't want and that I never asked for?
???

?????????
????????????
?
?
?
??????????????????????????????????????

Second question: How can you people oppose someone not wanting to pay for a useless, unwanted, unprompted service?????????
????????
?????

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At 10/15/08 04:01 AM, poxpower wrote: Why should I pay for a service that is useless, that I don't want and that I never asked for?

It's not your choice. The company's allowed to make the product any way it fucking feels, and charge whatever the hell it wants. Don't like it, don't buy it.

Pens with bobblehead attachments are equally as worthless to me as food having a kosher label, but if I want a pen, I get the whole package anyways. If I want, I'll look for different pens.

Why don't you go bitch to Mars co.? They're spending bundles to keep changing the color of M&Ms, and I bet they're probably adding the cost of that process to the cost of the candy. That's a completely unnecessary process that costs me an extra penny. They could all be one color and the M&M itself wouldn't change. Where's your crusade for monotone M&Ms?

Give me a fucking break. Fine, a lotta companies spend $$ to make sure their foods are kosher, to appeal to the Jews who may then buy their products. This probably raises the price of the product.

But is it a great moral outrage?
No.

My jar of Jif has the label. Am I gonna avoid Jif because of it? Fuck no. Why the hell would I? A certification that the food is kosher has no impact on whether or not I'm gonna buy the product, other than the 1 penny difference in price it may have with other brands.

Is it worthy of boycott and crusade to make sure people know bobble-head attachments don't actually help people write better?

No. I would have to have absolutely zero life to get worked up over something completely mundane, and in the end, worth a grand total of 1 penny in cost difference.

Second question: How can you people oppose someone not wanting to pay for a useless, unwanted, unprompted service?????????

I don't care if you oppose it. I care if you eat up the fucking forum space making a thread, completely non-political, ranting over the great crusade that is companies putting kosher symbols on their foods to appeal to Jewish consumers.

Well fuck pox. You said it yourself, we should try limiting stupidity.....and this whole thread, this whole crusade, and this whole boycott, is fucking STOOOOOPIIIIIIIID!

In the end, you make 1 penny's worth of a difference. And if you really want, gimme your mailing address. I'll send you $5 to cover the year's supply of kosher foods you would normally buy, to make up the difference in cost.
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.
.
.

Why don't you just man up, and admit that the only reason you find this issue important is because these companies are making products that appeal to theists, ie, Jews?

Otherwise, get off your soapbox, or get on the soapbox protesting all products that contain Yellow dye #15. It's equally as pointless.

Well give me your list of reasons why people would want to pay for Kosher food when they're not jewish, because I sure can't think of any.

Could be because people don't actually give a rat's fucking ass, as evident by the UNANIMOUS beratement you're receiving on this thread. Either they don't give a rat's ass because they're looking at other things when they buy the product, like I dunno, taste and nutrition facts, or because they don't see the ONE PENNY in difference as important enough to get so drastically worked up over.

Seriously, I don't really care if you wanna fight against religion (because you'll never have the clout to do anything important anyways), but you gotta learn to pick your battles man.

You wanna start a crusade for a worthless service you're paying into?
Start a thread on Social Security. Shit will be gone by we reach retirement, and at least with SS there's a whole legal issue to worry about.

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At 10/15/08 03:35 AM, poxpower wrote: Oh ok I'll go check dictionary.com to make sure that anti-semite is not a word above any other.
http://www.thefreedictionary.com/anti-Se mite
http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/a nti-semite

Sorry, there's no denying that this one particular usage of "anti-" gets special treatment over all others, to the point that anti-semite is pretty much the only actual WORD for saying you are against someone of a particular religion.

Hey look I can do this too.

http://dictionary.reference.com/search?q =antidiarrheal

The reason why the term "anti-semite" is especially prominent is because Jews have one of the world's oldest religions and people have been hating on them for a long time now. If you can show me a group with the same background of persecution through the ages then maybe you have a point, otherwise, it's not particularly surprising that 'anti-semite' would have it's own entry whereas 'anti-mormon' may not.

The only reason you even brought this up is your complaint that they're the only group that has a word associated with being specifically against them. But the word used is actually a conjoining of two words, and, well, there ARE other words that describe being against a particular religion besides that one. Like "Protestant", for one. In case you're unaware, Protestants are against papal authority. The cornerstone of Catholicism isn't Jesus, it's the presumption that the line of bishops from Rome has divine authority as Jesus' representatives on Earth. "Protestant" is just another word -- a nice, neat, single word -- for being anti-Catholicism.

Why you would bring any of this up or even have a problem with it, I have no idea. I mean, does it bother you that the word "racist" doesn't actually specify a race? Do you feel the need to create a bunch of new words that describe the same one concept as it applies to this group or that group?

Just shows your own biased view towards religion. Yeah that's right, I'm not the one who's biased AGAINST it, you're the one who's biased IN FAVOR of it.

When did I even say I was in favor of religion? If anything, I'm in favor of judging people on a person-to-person basis and not making broad, sweeping assumptions that jerks like you do.

Well give me your list of reasons why people would want to pay for Kosher food when they're not jewish, because I sure can't think of any.

1. it's delicious
2. it costs me nothing that I'd miss
3. it ensures my food is clean at standards higher than the government's
4. it's easier to just buy what you want to eat (kosher or not) than to spend time looking for specifically non-kosher food. in this instance my time is more valuable to me than that extra nickel I may or may not save otherwise
5. your principles are not my principles; your reasoning is not my reasoning.

They're not doing anything to the food, you're paying for a non-service, it's not a straw-man argument at all.

Yes it is, because you're still misrepresenting the situation. Before you said it's a service that you get nothing from. Now you're saying they don't do anything at all, which would betray the original claim that it's a waste of time and money. You don't think a food blessing means anything, well tough shit, other people apparently DO think it means something. The ritual was performed therefore 'something' was done, and to THEM that makes all the difference in the world.

If I was the type of person that had real-life anxiety attacks over alien invasions and I thought you actually did have some sort of anti-alien device, then it honestly WOULD be worth my while to pay a little extra for that. It's called peace-of-mind. Do you have peace-of-mind yourself? It would seem not, because you get your panties in a twist over stuff that doesn't concern or affect you in any noticable way, let alone bring you any sort of harm or hurt.

You think it's bad so you want EVERYONE ELSE to think so too... but they don't... and your own anxiety level rises because of it. You're getting all worked up over this, in shock that other people aren't reacting like you are. Dude, loosen-up your belt. Undo a button in your shirt. You need to mellow out.

If you somehow conclude that I have anything to gain from saying this, then you can look at my income and you'll realize after about 3 second that I have no profit, so you'd be pretty fucked since you seem to want really hard to find reasons to hate me.

I think the only thing you have to gain is negative attention for making crappy arguments.

And why are you so utterly convinced that I hate you or even want to hate you? Because I don't agree with what you say and because I think your reasoning is totally stupid? You know, I CAN hold the opinion that you're a dumb cunt without investing any actual emotions of hate or resentment into it.

Anyway, on the flipside you've already convinced yourself of why you should hate basically the majority of people on this planet.

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At 10/15/08 05:08 AM, Imperator wrote:

It's not your choice. The company's allowed to make the product any way it fucking feels, and charge whatever the hell it wants. Don't like it, don't buy it.

Huh that's what I've been saying all along.

But is it a great moral outrage?
No.

Who said it was? It's just underhanded and I don't feel I should pay anything for their religious practices.

I don't care if you oppose it. I care if you eat up the fucking forum space

I don't think we're running out of forum space any time soon.

In the end, you make 1 penny's worth of a difference. And if you really want, gimme your mailing address. I'll send you $5 to cover the year's supply of kosher foods you would normally buy, to make up the difference in cost.

cool, here's my paypal: poxpower10@hotmail.com

Why don't you just man up, and admit that the only reason you find this issue important is because these companies are making products that appeal to theists, ie, Jews?

Why is it so hard to believe that I think all pseudo-science is retarded?

At 10/15/08 05:10 AM, Cornbucket wrote:

Do you feel the need to create a bunch of new words that describe the same one concept as it applies to this group or that group?

Well why isn't there a word for people who hate religion? Why is there only one for jews? It pisses me off because every time anyone says anything against any religion, it sounds ok, but when you attack judaism, suddenly they have the excuse to use "anti-semite" and thus associate people with Hitler and all that stupid bullshit.
I demand a word for people who hate all religions. Anti-religious doesn't sound right. Who even uses that? And atheist doesn't necessarily mean "against religion" either so.

When did I even say I was in favor of religion?

I didn't say you were in favor of it in general, but you clearly think it's more serious than cryptozoology and aliens. But it's not.

1. it's delicious

Most kosher shit isn't even altered. The rest is just cleaned more before they cook it. There's no scientific way that this would make the food taste different and I'd bet a LOT of money againt you in a blind taste test.

2. it costs me nothing that I'd miss

that's not an argument for wanting kosher food, that's an argument for not caring if you have to pay for it.

3. it ensures my food is clean at standards higher than the government's

It's useless to clean it beyond a certain point. It's not an advantage, it's a waste. We don't live in a desert anymore, there's freezers and antibiotics now.

4. it's easier to just buy what you want to eat

that wasn't the question, the question was: would WANT your food to be kosher. Not "do you care that it already is".

5. your principles are not my principles; your reasoning is not my reasoning.

That's not an argument for anything. If you think it is, then it works for everything I can imagine. Example: murder is ok because your principles are not my principles, your reasoning is not my reasoning.
See? Not an argument. Like "let's agree to disagree". That's not an argument.

Yes it is, because you're still misrepresenting the situation. Before you said it's a service that you get nothing from. Now you're saying they don't do anything at all,

Dear lord, how many different ways can I say that they pay a guy to do basically nothing useful? Yes, I would call paying a clown to juggle in a my sausage plant while I make the food "useless" and "nothing". And that's also what I would call a Rabbi driving to general mills to make sure there's no ham in my Corn Flakes as if it was his fucking job to check people's food in the first place.

If I was the type of person that had real-life anxiety attacks over alien invasions and I thought you actually did have some sort of anti-alien device, then it honestly WOULD be worth my while to pay a little extra for that.

The entire point is that I AM NOT JEWISH AND I DON'T WANT KOSHER FOOD BECAUSE I KNOW IT DOESN'T ADD ACTUAL VALUE TO MY DELICIOUS LUCKY CHARMS.

You think it's bad so you want EVERYONE ELSE to think so too..

No, all I'm asking is that people take note and join me in on the boycott if they feel like they're getting cheated.

I think the only thing you have to gain is negative attention for making crappy arguments.

So I have everything to lose then, doesn't that make my stand look more honest? What are you suspicious of now? You're still trying to find some way that I can profit from telling people to not waste money on this?

Anyway, on the flipside you've already convinced yourself of why you should hate basically the majority of people on this planet.

I don't hate them, I hate what they do. And as opposed to religious people who say "hate the sin, not the sinner, but send the sinner to hell anyway" I don't intend to ever take any sort of violent retribution against any religious person.

But I don't want to pay for their beliefs in my food. They can keep that.

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Poxpower preaches that we shouldn't have things but modern mantra states we each have our own right to the things we think we need.

You say ban kosher priests (when really the process is fucking much more than just blessing them, there is a whole code of conduct for specific cleanliness).

Well then I say, ban fast food, its certainly bad for everyone. So just ban it, because it's obviously bad.

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Let me clarify.

The SMALLEST difference in kosher foods is the blessing.

That is a poor shoddy explanation but go to "The Kosher Process." And you'll see that you're being silly.

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At 10/15/08 05:10 AM, Cornbucket wrote: The reason why the term "anti-semite" is especially prominent is because Jews have one of the world's oldest religions and people have been hating on them for a long time now.

I know that you both consider anti-Semitic to mean the same thing, so there's no real argument against either of you in what I'm going to write in the rest of this post but let's delve into semantics just for the fun of it. Technically, anti-Semitism has nothing to do with being against the religion of Judaism; someone who dislikes Judaism should properly be called anti-Judaic because the term anti-Semite refers to someone who dislikes Jews as a people, as a race, as the descendants of the Biblical Shem, son of Noah. Literally, being against the religion Judaism makes someone as much of an anti-Semite as being against Islam makes you a racist, and when people accuse those who dislike the religion Islam of being racists it's always quickly pointed out that Islam isn't a race.

The term anti-Semite stems from the 19th century when many European (especially French and German) social scientists made a clear distinction between races, usually to compare the virtuous characteristics that they ascribed to Caucasians to negative characteristics that they ascribed to other races. To paraphrase Rudolph Peters: Semites (Jews and Arabs) were said to be so fanatically devoted to their religious dogmas that they lacked tolerance or an interest in science and philosophy, they were said to be unable to think analytically and they were said to lack any feeling for creative thinking or sense of nuance. Directly quoting Ernest Renan, a prominent French philosopher from the 19th century:

"Ainsi la race sémitique se reconnaît presque uniquement à des caractères négatif: elle n'a ni mythologie, ni epopée, ni science, ni philosophie, ni fiction, ni arts plastiques, ni vie civile; en tout, absence de complexité, de nuances, sentiment exclusif de l'unité (...) L'infini, la diversité, le germe de développement et du progrès semblent refusée aux peuples dont nous avons à parler."

Pox can translate this better than I can, but I might as well try: Therefore the Semitic race has almost exclusively negative characteristics: it has no mythology, no epics, neither science nor philosophy or fiction or arts or civilian life; in all, lack of complexity, of nuance, a exclusive sense of unity (...) The infinite, diversity, the seed of development and progress seems denied among the people we've talked about.

While this (real) anti-Semitism was applied to both Arabs under European colonial control and Jews in Europe it were the Jews who were regularly confronted with it domestically, and the dislike for Jews was more intense and widely spread because more non-Semites had direct contacts with them - leading to accusations that were solely directed at Jews like the accusation of being a parasitic people that needed a 'host nation' to suck dry. Over time, the term growed to apply only to those who were against Judaism or Jewry. However, the term literally only refers to those who are against the Semitic race as a whole and has little to do with the Semitic religions per se; perhaps only with the importance that these Semites ascribe to their religions. Thus, your application of the term anti-Semite isn't wrong in the sense that it has taken on a new generally accepted meaning over the course of the past century, but it's still literally wrong when you call someone who has a specific dislike for Judaism and its practices an anti-Semite.

Then again, the power and negative connotations of the term anti-Judaic are nowhere near the power and negative connotations of the word anti-Semitic.

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At 10/14/08 04:49 AM, dySWN wrote: How is this relevant again?

Because a Mod posted it.

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http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kosher_tax

Have fun boycotting something that doesn't matter.

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At 10/15/08 03:28 PM, Brian wrote: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kosher_tax

Have fun boycotting something that doesn't matter.

I was going to keep the debate alive but at this point there's no real reason to.

Talk about SHOT. TO. SHIT.

Lock this dumb topic already.

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At 10/15/08 01:41 PM, lapis wrote

but I might as well try: Therefore the Semitic race has almost exclusively negative characteristics: it has no mythology, no epics, neither science nor philosophy or fiction or arts or civilian life; in all, lack of complexity, of nuance, a exclusive sense of unity (...) The infinite, diversity, the seed of development and progress seems denied among the people we've talked about.

yeah you translated it right.

Anyways my point is this: jews aren't a race. I don't acknowledge them calling themselves a race. Anyone who converts to judaism will use the word" anti-semite" to describe those who go against him.
If they don't even use the word correctly, then I will be damned if I ever try and find out if someone is religiously jewish, or "genetically" jewish, which is pure nonsense.
The descendants of a particular MINDSET don't get to be called a race.

So that's my view on that.

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The Irony in the whole Kosher food deal is the idea that Muslims who wish to keep to the Koran's food laws will look for Kosher food, mostly because there is little if any difference Between Kosher and Halal.

Ironic as hell....

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At 10/15/08 04:16 PM, poxpower wrote: Anyways my point is this: jews aren't a race. I don't acknowledge them calling themselves a race.

There's both a lineage (making it racial) and a religion associated with it. Whether YOU acknowledge it or not doesn't really make a difference as to how things actually are. As people are fond of saying "just because you believe it doesn't make it true." You believing it isn't applicable to both descendancy AND belief structure doesn't make it so. Also, there actually ARE a bunch of terms for describing things like people who convert to Judaism but are not ethnically Jewish, people who are ethnically Jewish but pay no attention to Judaism, etc etc etc. Naturally those terms are used more within the Jewish community than outside of it... sortof in the same way that to an outsider an Asian is an Asian but within the Asian community there's a number of division... or in the way that someone outside of academia a scientist is a scientist but within, there's a bazillion different kinds of "-ologists".

I think you need to face the fact that words are often a poor tool for describing things AS THEY ARE without either injecting your own personal belief into it or without arousing presumptions in others. Some people will be boggled over calling a white U.S. citizen who immigrated from Africa an "African-American" and some people think that "black" and "white" are perfectly accurate terms to use when the reality of it is that they're more like dark brown and light brown. When you realize that a tan white person can have a darker complexion than a light-skinned black person you SHOULD start to realize why words can't ever fully construe what you think they're meant to decribe. You not-acknowledging what IS doesn't mean it ISN'T, it means you'd rather ignore it because it doesn't fit neatly into your worldview.

SO YOU'RE JUST AN ANTI-DENTITE IS WHAT YOU ARE.

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At 10/15/08 04:55 PM, Korriken wrote: The Irony in the whole Kosher food deal is the idea that Muslims who wish to keep to the Koran's food laws will look for Kosher food, mostly because there is little if any difference Between Kosher and Halal.

Ironic as hell....

How is that ironic? They both basically descend from the same source.

That's a little bit like saying it's ironic that Hondas have wheels since Fords do too.

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At 10/15/08 12:02 AM, poxpower wrote:

At 10/14/08 11:48 PM, Menelaus wrote:

First off, acknowledge my point that you wouldn't pay for a service you didn't ask for. Why would you just ignore that completely?

No, I wouldn't pay for, say, some books I didn't order. I wouldn't not pay for something I DO want just because it has unnecessary bells and whistles. Coca-cola has caramel coloring added to it, but I'm not outraged that Coca-cola is doing extra things to their product that I don't really want or need.

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At 10/15/08 04:57 PM, Cornbucket wrote:

There's both a lineage (making it racial) and a religion associated with it.

Anything you can convert to is not a race.

You not-acknowledging what IS doesn't mean it ISN'T, it means you'd rather ignore it because it doesn't fit neatly into your worldview.

Hey, it's got to change in my opinion. I'm sick of people trying to call themselves "jewish" to add more cachet to their idendity. I'm thinking for instance about the movie "Knocked Up" where all the guys are out at a bar lambasting the bearded guy when he said "I'm glad I'm not jewish". They all act as if they were jewish yet through the entire movie you don't see any of them doing anything remotely associated to the religion. There's not a kipa in sight, not a prayer is uttered and not a single religious rule is observed.

I'm tired of this bullshit where I have to guess if a person is religiously jewish, or genetically jewish and they get offended if I guess wrong. Like, oh no, I assumed that John Stewart wasn't a practicing jew and he actually was, oops I'm an asshole now.

At 10/15/08 05:17 PM, Menelaus wrote:

Coca-cola has caramel coloring added to it, but I'm not outraged that Coca-cola is doing extra things to their product that I don't really want or need.

First of all, that's an actual ingredient that composes the beverage and is written plainly on the can. The "K" symbol is virtually unknown to people. So already there, you're not even getting the information you should about how the product is made.

And people can boycott whatever the fuck they want, I don't see why people go so damn angry at me suggesting we should boycott something with a religious connotation. Tools.